I personally liked Darkfall, I just saw the skills and said hell no I'm not subscribing there isn't any way you're going to get me to play a game where everyone is exactly the same.  I can play counter-strike for that.

Originally posted by daveospice

I personally liked Darkfall, I just saw the skills and said hell no I'm not subscribing there isn't any way you're going to get me to play a game where everyone is exactly the same.  I can play counter-strike for that.

Nice troll:) or noob that played the trial and feels like making a post.

there are so many diffrent skills in the game and more im not going to say. 

Whilst i havent up until this point played darkfall since i was told on multiple occassions to avoid it like the plague. I have an insterest in sandbox mmos with full loot full pvp. So naturally if they ever see sense and implment some asort of skill cap combined ith a dramatic reduction in grind i will gladly give the game a try. Until then i guess ill stick to MO which of course is flawed in other ways but at least the developers actually listen to its player base.

Skill caps is a dumb idea in Darkfall.  I like to be able to do anything I want with my character and it doesn't bother me than other people can too.  Really, its the best  pvp balance you can hope for.  No restrictions, nobody having access to  abilities that you don't. 

There are plenty of other class based pvp games and they are all imbalanced in one way or another, even in a game like starcraft.

Originally posted by trashburnin

Skill caps is a dumb idea in Darkfall.  I like to be able to do anything I want with my character and it doesn't bother me than other people can too.  Really, its the best  pvp balance you can hope for.  No restrictions, nobody having access to  abilities that you don't. 

 

There are plenty of other class based pvp games and they are all imbalanced in one way or another, even in a game like starcraft.

/Facepalm

Skill caps allow players to be what ever they want, but limit what they can be at any single moment.  This allows for characters to have strengths and weaknesses, which creates dynamic encounters and gameplay.  Not the boring shoot em with magic and run up to them and hack em with 2h wep that you see in every DF video and done with every single character. 

It may work to allow everyone to have every skill at once, but it does not in DF.  The difference between a vet and a newb is much too large.

Originally posted by Onigod

Originally posted by daveospice

I personally liked Darkfall, I just saw the skills and said hell no I'm not subscribing there isn't any way you're going to get me to play a game where everyone is exactly the same.  I can play counter-strike for that.

Nice troll:) or noob that played the trial and feels like making a post.

there are so many diffrent skills in the game and more im not going to say. 

 

It doesn't matter how many skills are in the game when everyone maxes all of them. The way the game is now, everyone is a WarrArchaMage or gimped. Skill caps are needed. The Darkfall creators thought that making an enormous grind would eliminate the need for a skill cap. They failed to realize that MMO players have no life. A skill cap is a much needed change. Without one, tons of potential players won't even bother.

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by trashburnin

Skill caps is a dumb idea in Darkfall.  I like to be able to do anything I want with my character and it doesn't bother me than other people can too.  Really, its the best  pvp balance you can hope for.  No restrictions, nobody having access to  abilities that you don't. 

 

There are plenty of other class based pvp games and they are all imbalanced in one way or another, even in a game like starcraft.

 

/Facepalm

 

Skill caps allow players to be what ever they want, but limit what they can be at any single moment.  This allows for characters to have strengths and weaknesses, which creates dynamic encounters and gameplay.   

 

DF already has what you describe without skill caps.  You are defined by the armor and weapons you bring and your specailizations.  Sure mages may be swinging melee weapons at each other but they aren't specialized to do 40% more damage like a destroyer would.  Also, nobody rolls around with a really nice staff, melee weapon AND bow.  People usually have one weapon type that they focus on based on their playstyle.  Tell us how everything works once you have actually played the game.

The difference between a vet and noob is smaller than in any other mmorpg.

Your mom is the only one who should be doing a /facepalm right now.

isnt it only destroyer thats in? also whats stopping players switching by swaping their armor between fights. in uo i seen some unbelievable ghostmouse autohotkey methods of looting quickly or regaering quickly. something like that would likely allow players to switch between destroyer and all out everything in a matter of seconds if it works like in uo. I still bleeive a skill cap makes more sense than restrictive armor, what happens when they eventually add more crafting based skills or skills which you dont wear armor for.

Originally posted by deathshroud

isnt it only destroyer thats in? also whats stopping players switching by swaping their armor between fights. in uo i seen some unbelievable ghostmouse autohotkey methods of looting quickly or regaering quickly. something like that would likely allow players to switch between destroyer and all out everything in a matter of seconds if it works like in uo. I still bleeive a skill cap makes more sense than restrictive armor, what happens when they eventually add more crafting based skills or skills which you dont wear armor for.

na, skill cap sucks because anytime you want to switch your playstyle you have to give up your old skills and it can be a lot of work to do that and time wasted.  I played UO for 7 years and a skill cap can work in that game but it would just suck in Darkfall.  I don't want to be confined to a single attack action, it would take some of the skill out of the game.

The way Darkfall does it is much better.   There are timers on equipping gear so you can't swap out in combat.  Also, Destroyer isn't the only melee specialization.

Originally posted by trashburnin

Skill caps is a dumb idea in Darkfall.  I like to be able to do anything I want with my character and it doesn't bother me than other people can too.  Really, its the best  pvp balance you can hope for.  No restrictions, nobody having access to  abilities that you don't. 

 

There are plenty of other class based pvp games and they are all imbalanced in one way or another, even in a game like starcraft.

Skill caps in no way will have a negative impact on the game.  There still won't be restrictions with caps, it will just push people down certain paths (which they will choose), and promote creative builds and dynamic gameplay (both PvP and PvE).  It will effectively lessen the grind by making new players viable quicker.  It will allow for a more robust and strong player economy due to making players choose between being an adventurer and a crafter.  This should open up conversation to allow for more than one character per account, which will allow for replayability and draw more people into the game.  It will make fighting more interesting.  You won't see the same build over and over and over.  No more demi-god types of players with every skill.  It will change the appearance of players instead of seeing the same armored style over and over again.  Ultima Online had skill caps and it remains the most successful fantasy sandbox MMO to date.  Having many types of characters will promote proper group orientation.  It will promote tactics and strategy more than it does now.  It will simply draw more people into a game that is desperate for more players.  Why people can't see this and completely refuse to see that this could potentially save this game from it's death bed is beyond me. 

I don't get it, I see a lot of DF vets claiming how DF has the best PvP in any MMO ever made.  Yet barely anyone plays the game.  How could that be true if they are struggling to keep their doors open because no one is interested in it?  It's certainly not because of full loot or FFA PvP.  EvE has that and they are doing quite well for a sandbox MMO.  It must have something to do with the design of the game.  It's not the graphics, they seem to be decent enough.  It has to be something at it's very core that is a major flaw that forces most gamers to turn the opposite direction.  There is a free trial and it's marketed as a PvP game with no protection, so players know what they are getting into.  Yet they still can't retain players.  At what point do the DF supporters start thinking about some compromise?  At this rate, there won't be a DF to support. 

it wouldnt be alot of work if they significantly reduced the grind, grind is something mmos can do without.

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Originally posted by deathshroud
it wouldnt be alot of work if they significantly reduced the grind, grind is something mmos can do without.

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Actually making a game without grind would need a lot of work, because you would have to create content for people.

Its so much easier to create few skill/spells, few skin and some ai, and have your guys play for years the same lame repetitive actions to access max level.

But when you need to create some role people would enjoy playing, create a sensation of community through player houses/cities, simulation of logistic need, deep economy and trading aspect as a medieval like game should have. Then this is an other story, because this kind of content really need a whole world behind it, and some real brain, and not the very basic in game creation any arcade game is about.

problem with darkfall is the whole idea behind the game goes compeltely agaisnt the grind, its esentailly just a team deathmatch game were all players have the same skills and abilities however you have to pay to grind for 4 months before you can begin to enjoy it. Its like having grind in an fps. Doesnt make sense.

There is something about Darkfall that I liked enough to keep me playing for 6 months even though I usually got farmed by more powerful (and also by better) pvpers. That didn't really bother me as long as I felt I was making progress at a reasonable rate. I don't think I've ever complained about grind or any of the more popular issues people have with the game.

In my case, I would love to come back to Darkfall if I knew 2 things, which I believe AV should tell their customers:

1. Wipe/No wipe

2. ETA for 2.0

But if they don't want to tell me that, then I don't want to pay them a sub fee. It's as simple as that. 

I don't think we can just boil it all down to skill caps or not. I think there is more complexity involved in the overall game design and for that reason, I want to know more about what's going to happen to my characters (I bought 2 accounts for me and 1 for someone else), and their progress, and how and when my characters will transition to 2.0.

That's a reasonable customer expectation since AV themselves said they would have a 2.0 ETA at the end of August. 

Originally posted by deathshroud

problem with darkfall is the whole idea behind the game goes compeltely agaisnt the grind, its esentailly just a team deathmatch game were all players have the same skills and abilities however you have to pay to grind for 4 months before you can begin to enjoy it. Its like having grind in an fps. Doesnt make sense.

Very true. 

Originally posted by xBludx

There is something about Darkfall that I liked enough to keep me playing for 6 months even though I usually got farmed by more powerful (and also by better) pvpers. That didn't really bother me as long as I felt I was making progress at a reasonable rate. I don't think I've ever complained about grind or any of the more popular issues people have with the game.

In my case, I would love to come back to Darkfall if I knew 2 things, which I believe AV should tell their customers:

1. Wipe/No wipe

2. ETA for 2.0

But if they don't want to tell me that, then I don't want to pay them a sub fee. It's as simple as that. 

I don't think we can just boil it all down to skill caps or not. I think there is more complexity involved in the overall game design and for that reason, I want to know more about what's going to happen to my characters (I bought 2 accounts for me and 1 for someone else), and their progress, and how and when my characters will transition to 2.0.

That's a reasonable customer expectation since AV themselves said they would have a 2.0 ETA at the end of August. 

Whether they wipe or not, or tell you what's going on.. it's not going to fix the issues with the game that causes most of the community to not want to go anywhere near it.  It might give you peace of mind.  However, it won't really draw enough people in to turn things around.  That world needs a large playerbase to prosper.  until you fix all those issues that hurt the playerbase, you'll never see what Darkfall should have been.  I just can't stand demi-god characters, no replayability, half year grind to viability, naked combat, large barren landscapes, and weak player economy in a sandbox.  It's a complete waste and utter shame that a game with such promise has a development team entirely inept at making correct decisions, in all areas.

Their main page news hasn't been updated since April.  If I were a new player, I'd think the game was dead.

Originally posted by DAS1337  I just can't stand demi-god characters, no replayability, half year grind to viability, naked combat, large barren landscapes, and weak player economy in a sandbox. 

I didn't address all the issues people have with the game, but yeah, I would hope (realistically or not) that 2.0 would "fix" issues that turn players away unnecessarily. Some people will like this game and others won't obviously. But at this point, it is true that the population is not optimal (it's very low) and there needs to be more players coming to the game and staying. There are clearly issues AV needs to address.

Here is an interesting (and civil so far) discussion about Darkfall's weakpoints and merits: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.314787-Looking-back-at-Darkfall-online

I just don't know enough about 2.0 and how it might solve the lack of player retention while keeping the spirit and vision of Darkfall that make it unique. I mean, there are some good things about the game that I can't find in other games.

If AV gave reliable, timely, accurate information, that would be good. But that could be another topic.

how will trade in darkfall ever manage to take off and create an economy when esentially every player in the game can make a crafter, so everyone competes agaisnt everyone and theres nobody to trade to or craft for.

Originally posted by deathshroud

how will trade in darkfall ever manage to take off and create an economy when esentially every player in the game can make a crafter, so everyone competes agaisnt everyone and theres nobody to trade to or craft for.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

DF could have been great- But since everyone can do everything there is no need for "specialist's" and the economy will forever be broken.

Add a skillcap and I will come back. I really enjoy DF but cannot stand the whole "no skillcap, be a master of EVERYTHING" game mechanic.

DF was ok to a point. My complaint has always been that promises are made but reality tells a different story when it comes to game development. I am also just a little burnt out on an "Open World" pvp game where you can get ganked in FRIENDLY territory with no repercussions....but that is a different story.