and they clearly would NOT be splitting the user bases.

 

PVE only players DO NOT PLAY DARKFALL FOR LONG, no matter how much they might WANT to.

 

that side is clear from responses in this thread.

 

the PVP side has ALSO made it clear that PVP being optional would ruin the game for them, and therefore they would REMAIN ON PVP SERVERS.

 

a PVE server would be made up almost exclusively of people WHO WOULD NEVER PLAY Darkfall beyond a trial period, or first month.

Yes please add a PvE server.  While you're at it, we want battle grounds, arenas, lots of solo content (so we can ignore each other in peace), shiney purple items, no death penalty and our characters should dance.  Oh wait, there are already a hundred games like that on the market.

I thought Darkfall sucked but FFA PvP had nothing to do with it.

Can somebody please answer one question for me.  Why does a player buy a game they know is FFA PvP then complain about getting killed on the forums?

Originally posted by dave6660

Can somebody please answer one question for me.  Why does a player buy a game they know is FFA PvP then complain about getting killed on the forums?

That, my friend, is one of the internet's big mysteries.

People research the game, know completely well that it is FFA PvP with a harsh environment, then try to turn the game into something it isn't the moment they get "ganked" by another player.

I've had kills send me hate tells, accusing me of being a veteran player and preying on the weak, when the character that I killed them with was two weeks old...

I am a veteran, but not all of us look for underskilled and undergeared players to kill. It is a common misconception made by individuals who lack experience with the game.

sorry PVP'ers history shows that games which are pvp only usually do not last long and always have a low playerbase. Just deal with it. Arguing and name calling isn't going to change the facts.

Originally posted by dave6660

Can somebody please answer one question for me.  Why does a player buy a game they know is FFA PvP then complain about getting killed on the forums?

simple they didn't buy the game they probably played maybe the free trial and then said screw it.

Originally posted by itgrowls

sorry PVP'ers history shows that games which are pvp only usually do not last long and always have a low playerbase. Just deal with it. Arguing and name calling isn't going to change the facts.

exactly

 

and remember PVPers like you tell us "carebears" if a PVE server was introduced in DF you don't have to play there. whats the matter are you afraid that those(sheep as i believe PVPers call them) who are there because its a sandbox and tolerate but despise the ganking will instantly move to the new server?

A PvE server for Darkfall would seem kind of pointless.  I've played on and off for 2+ years, and from the outset, I knew I was going to be killed.  The main way to avoid being killed so easily was to PvE - to increase stats, get some better gear, enchanting materials, etc.  But the goal was always to get this stuff to be better suited for PvP.  There was never a voice in my head that said, "Hey - let's PvE so we can be better at PvE!"  The end-game in Darkfall is PvP.  PvE exists to facilitate PvP.  That's just how it worked for me.

 

I still die a lot.  And it's still fun.

 

 

Originally posted by corpusc

let's use your words modified slightly for another game.

"was Everquest trying to make a PVE game?  if so there is little point in having a PVP server."

 

cuz giving people options is just pointless.  cuz leveraging your multimillion dollar MMO to appeal to more than one type of player so you can increase your revenue stream with practically no extra effort is just a stupid idea.  

(in Darkfalls case, probably way more than doubling their profits, rather than the tiny extra that PVP servers brought to Everquest)

it will cost them less to make a new game...

no its not that simple to make a PVE ruleset with a game designed for pvp, you dont simply flip a switch and deactivate pvp.

just a couple example of millions that require change

, you will have to rework the loot table since you just destroyed the player economy. 

, you will have to rework the monster spawn, since you just destroyed the main combat concept

, you will need to rework the territory control mechanism, since you cant really fight for land anymore. so castles/keeps whatever you call them, will have to be attained some other way.

, and if you choose the consentual pvp route well there goes more programing to do

jesus with all these changes, why not simply make a new game, won't take that much more effort.

@dave666

 

right.  there are 100 games like Darkfall on the market.

 

give a few seconds thought about things at least.

@Squal'Zell

 

your posts are just so off the wall in their reasoning that there is no way to converse with you.  you come from a completely different reality. a bizarro world, where up is down, and black is white.

 

 

Originally posted by corpusc

let's use your words modified slightly for another game.

"was Everquest trying to make a PVE game?  if so there is little point in having a PVP server."

 

cuz giving people options is just pointless.  cuz leveraging your multimillion dollar MMO to appeal to more than one type of player so you can increase your revenue stream with practically no extra effort is just a stupid idea.  

(in Darkfalls case, probably way more than doubling their profits, rather than the tiny extra that PVP servers brought to Everquest)

 

How about we make a server with arenas and tab targetting. How about we add a server with class trees and not skill progression. You would be crazy not to try and give everyone an option and gain as many players as possible to make as much money as possible right?

 

EVE should make a pve server, with no time based progression, drop the whole spaceship malarky and focus on player avatars. I mean they would gain loads of subs doing that, few games offer the crafting and economy EVE offers (so you can't get it anywhere, just like you can't get DF's pve anywhere) so there should be servers made to appeal to everyone right?

 

After all, not giving absolutely everyone the option to play on a server with the ruleset they want in every single game is just crazy talk isn't it....

 

All good in theory, all pretty much terrible in practice, just like trying to shovel pve servers onto a pvp centric sandbox game. There are reasons why EVE hasn't gone down such a route and it has nothing to do with CCP wanting to limit the amount of money they can make. DF, either trying to be a sandbox or trying to be pvp centric, has just such reasons.

 

Sure there are plenty of people who will not play Darkfall because it has ffa, full loot. Oh well such is life, the game could increase it's subs enough for it to be more than profitable without having to resort to creating a whole new server. I will not play plenty of themeparks because they are themepark games and yet I appreciate their polish. Still I don't go about wondering why WoW will not make a hardcore sandbox, ffa, full loot server. I mean it's just not that kind of game now is it.

 

Who knows, maybe it will happen with DF 2.0 (if that ever actually occurs), but then I would be surprised to say the least.

 

 

 

 

 

@bunnyhopper

lol are you serious with that post?

really, you can't see the difference between making one change and changing everything about the game?

a whole humungous post thats all about how you cannot recognize the difference between a tiny number and a huge number.   is that something to be proudly and verbosely displaying?  wow, you're lack of understanding is impressive!  is that what you want?

 

some people want PVP optional, and you suggest that its similar to asking the Bejeweled creators to change their game into a game like Rollercoaster Tycoon.

 

ahaha thats really astounding logic there.

to re-iterate what you special people keep on missing.....

 

PVE games pop out PVP servers with barely any change all the time.  and people ACTUALLY PLAY IT EVEN THO IT WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT.

that can easily go in the other direction.

 

the people that love the PVE, LIKE IT AS IT EXISTS CURRENTLY.  not a single thing NEEDS TO BE CHANGED about PVE to make those people CONTINUE to like it.

 

you people saying otherwise should just admit to yourself and everybody else, what kind of gamer you are.  the kind that wants easy prey, and to be able to easily steamroll people based on how long you wasted your life in the game.  

but its understandable why you'd never want to admit that to yourselves.   and why you have to keep pulling irrelevance and illogic out of your behind.  cuz you're scared to death of losing your no life advantage.  its quite amusing to see you grasping at straws.  grasp some more.

Originally posted by corpusc

 

@bunnyhopper

lol are you serious with that post?

really, you can't see the difference between making one change and changing everything about the game?

a whole humungous post thats all about how you cannot recognize the difference between a tiny number and a huge number.   is that something to be proudly and verbosely displaying?  wow, you're lack of understanding is impressive!  is that what you want?

 

some people want PVP optional, and you suggest that its similar to asking the Bejeweled creators to change their game into a game like Rollercoaster Tycoon.

 

ahaha thats really astounding logic there.

Your post pointed out that reducing a games potential customer base through limiting player options is a bad idea. I simply took that and ran with it, or what, are you saying only your particular needs and options should be catered for. That your desire for optional pvp is more important than someones desire for non twitch combat? Because I can assure you, it isn't. You asking for a pve server is no different to someone asking for tab targeting in the game. In fact one could argue that the latter is a far more reasonable request.

 

The fact you seem to operating under the impression that it is a simple, single change which could cause zero medium to long term issues highlights the fact that you are either ignoring peoples concerns and the points they are making, or you simply don't grasp what you are actually asking for.

 

Some people want their pvp optional, yep I get that. What you seem not to be able to comprehend is that asking for such a  change in a pvp centric game is a nonsense, and asking for such a change in a pvp centric sandbox (ala EVE or DF) also demonstrates a lack of understanding of what exactly makes such a game.

 

Tacking on a pvp server to a themepark game is NOTHING like splitting servers in a game like EVE or DF. It is amazing quite frankly that you cannot see that. You seem to be under the impression that creating a pve server is as simple as "turning off" pvp, that no development issues or potential community related issues can arise and that it would not require more man hours and money than AV actually has spare. I personally think that point of view is naive at best.

 

Even taking the obvious issues aside, themepark games and other pve games can spin off pvp servers in order to chase a new audience. DF hasn't succeeded in getting it's target audience with any success yet. It is pretty clear that they should fix their house before doing the fucking decorating.

 

Speaking of tiny numbers and large nubers, I would wager that there is only a tiny number of players willing to play DF in it's current form (with no updates, no bug fixes and no grind changes) on a pve only server. Whereas it is clear that a far larger number of people would want pvp (non ffa, full loot, just pvp) servers in tradtional mmorpgs. You see the fact that AV and CCP haven't bothered making a pve server and the fact that most mmorpgs make pvp servers, kind of points to that being a fact now doesn't it.

 

Does it honestly make more sense to you that a developer should spend time and money creating a new server to appeal to a crowd the game was never intended to appeal to in the first place. Over and above, you know, actually fixing the things that are putting off the crowd the game was aimed at in the first place without having to create new servers? Because if it does then, oh my. The fundamental fact of the matter is the game is aimed at a certain crowd and is trying to be a certain thing. The problem is they have fked a massive part of what makes that work up. Creating a new ruleset server which will not attract the players they are aiming at and which is unlikely to attract many typical pvers either in all honesty, is a complete and utter nonsense.

 

If AV could create a pve only server without shifting dev time and money away from the core ruleset of the game. If the new server could attract hordes of new subs without needing massive pve updates. If the new subscribers didn't mind that AV spent the bulk of their development time on the core ruleset server and their original idea for the game. If this new pve server somehow manged to attract the crowd they were clearly aiming at in the first place (the pvpers) as well. Then I'm all for it. But you see, non of that seems realistic in the least to me.... at all. The whole thing smacks of an incredibly ill thought out idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

 

Your post pointed out that reducing a games potential customer base through limiting player options is a bad idea. I simply took that and ran with it

 

 

 

in a really stupid direction, maybe you should stop trying to go to the extreme it makes you look like a fool who doesn't know how to debate.

 

there is a big difference between "flipping the PVP switch to off" and taking EVE's whole premise and "dropping the spaceship malarky". if you can't see that then you are just a troll.

almost every major MMORPG has "flipped the PVP switch" on different server rulesets and in some cases even made more changes to the game, i know this was the case for DAOC mordred/andred and EQ2s PVP servers. And you know what with their popularity the actually gave them their own specific updates.

 

lol sorry but your whole post is just a troll post, why wouldn't paying subscribers not expect bug fixes because they are playing on a different server. thats just downright stupid.

we get it troll you're afraid that a new server will show that more people actually enjoy the PVE with consensual PVP type game and that all the "sheep" er victims will move to that server leave you with maybe 30 other players(after all what does darkfall have right now  maybe 500 players?)

---

Originally posted by corpusc
to re-iterate what you special people keep on missing.....
 
PVE games pop out PVP servers with barely any change all the time.  and people ACTUALLY PLAY IT EVEN THO IT WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR THAT.
that can easily go in the other direction.
 
the people that love the PVE, LIKE IT AS IT EXISTS CURRENTLY.  not a single thing NEEDS TO BE CHANGED about PVE to make those people CONTINUE to like it.
 
you people saying otherwise should just admit to yourself and everybody else, what kind of gamer you are.  the kind that wants easy prey, and to be able to easily steamroll people based on how long you wasted your life in the game.  
but its understandable why you'd never want to admit that to yourselves.   and why you have to keep pulling irrelevance and illogic out of your behind.  cuz you're scared to death of losing your no life advantage.  its quite amusing to see you grasping at straws.  grasp some more.

---

The only thing I would add to that is that the PvE games with PvP servers are designed to have as much PvP as they have. It's not an after thought and it's not random. It just so happens that a little open world PvP can be easily added to a faction based PvE game without breaking it. However, you can't remove the PvE element and have a solely PvP based game from a PvE based game unless you secretly added a whole PvP game when nobody was looking.

*In comparison, with a PvP based game, you can easily add in some PvE without breaking the game. You can add a good bit of PvE elements without breaking the game, even if it isn't easy. However, unless you've added an entire PvE game when nobody was looking, you can't remove the PvP and still have a good game.

*Oh look. Here I go adding more. Sorry.

Originally posted by itgrowls

sorry PVP'ers history shows that games which are pvp only usually do not last long and always have a low playerbase. Just deal with it. Arguing and name calling isn't going to change the facts.

Eve has been going strong since 2003.

Originally posted by Ecoces

Originally posted by dave6660

Can somebody please answer one question for me.  Why does a player buy a game they know is FFA PvP then complain about getting killed on the forums?

simple they didn't buy the game they probably played maybe the free trial and then said screw it.

Fair enough.  I didn't buy the game, I played the trail too.  But I did take 5 minutes to read up on what the game was about.

Originally posted by corpusc

@dave666

 

right.  there are 100 games like Darkfall on the market.

 

give a few seconds thought about things at least.

Huh?  Did you miss the sarcasm of my post?  Or am I missing something?

I believe that there would have to be some serious changes before it would be popular as a PVE platform.  Without going into a lot of details, I believe that there would have to be a lot more content developed to support a PVE player base.  Currently the systems are in place as a very PVP centric game.  I think more crafting options, quest options (Not in a themepark sort of way as most people will begin grousing), but I believe they need to be in place even in a sandbox.  More player options for doing things will also need to be in place, as well as others I am sure.  I think a good look at some popular PVE games would be a good starting point to look for this.  One game I consider to be a good game for PVE is Vanguard.  I know its not that popular for a host of reasons, I believe it to be a good guide as to what makes a good PVE centric game.