FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

Aventurine created its playerbase/fanbase and they create(stall development ATM) game for it and now after big release they will probably nerf the game down as you say to stop the tremendous amounts of wine on forums from players such as you...

I would play DF in a heartbeat if they had a PvE only server with consentual PvP flagging.  I enjoyed the few days I was in game back a few months ago under a free trial until I started getting camped and killed repeatedly.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I would play DF in a heartbeat if they had a PvE only server with consentual PvP flagging.  I enjoyed the few days I was in game back a few months ago under a free trial until I started getting camped and killed repeatedly.

Games like Xsyon and Darkfall would probably enjoy a much larger audience if they either offered PVE servers or offered some kind of relative safety for players that wanted to go questing with other players instead of just getting stomped on over and over.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I would play DF in a heartbeat if they had a PvE only server with consentual PvP flagging.  I enjoyed the few days I was in game back a few months ago under a free trial until I started getting camped and killed repeatedly.

Games like Xsyon and Darkfall would probably enjoy a much larger audience if they either offered PVE servers or offered some kind of relative safety for players that wanted to go questing with other players instead of just getting stomped on over and over.

"Stomped on over and over", really? Either people have had a really, really bad run of luck over a very short space of time or they are A) Talking out of their asses having not played the game or B) Running about like a complete spazmo whilst carrying all their worldly goods on them in a game with FFA and full looting. Not being funny but it doesn't take alot of effort to get out of a starter town and get somewhere relatively safe to grind up.

 

FFA  is the least of Darkfall's issues at the moment. Additional non pvp content, additional content for higher skill level players and a greatly reduced grind are more keenly needed then pve servers. Although I personally would stick high powered NPC guards around starter towns.

Doubt it, Darkfall cannot hold a candle compared to the PvE monsters out there. It's only hope is in the FFA PvP but regardless of PvE or PvP the core game is simply lacking.

Originally posted by PhillipVIII

FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

Did you ever hear the word "Trammel" , no? Google it and know what happened to the last full-loot FFAPVP game that did that big mistake...

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I would play DF in a heartbeat if they had a PvE only server with consentual PvP flagging.  I enjoyed the few days I was in game back a few months ago under a free trial until I started getting camped and killed repeatedly.

Games like Xsyon and Darkfall would probably enjoy a much larger audience if they either offered PVE servers or offered some kind of relative safety for players that wanted to go questing with other players instead of just getting stomped on over and over.

"Stomped on over and over", really? Either people have had a really, really bad run of luck over a very short space of time or they are A) Talking out of their asses having not played the game or B) Running about like a complete spazmo whilst carrying all their worldly goods on them in a game with FFA and full looting. Not being funny but it doesn't take alot of effort to get out of a starter town and get somewhere relatively safe to grind up.

 

FFA  is the least of Darkfall's issues at the moment. Additional non pvp content, additional content for higher skill level players and a greatly reduced grind are more keenly needed then pve servers. Although I personally would stick high powered NPC guards around starter towns.

Bunny, for the most part, I agree wtih you. However, consider the perception of the PVP systems in Xsyon/Darkfall by people who are normally PvPers. From your posts, I get the impression that you enjoy FFA PVP. If so, your idea of "over and over" is probably like mine - corpse camping, ress killing and the like. And, YES, I realize those are avoidable.  Now consider the person who likes PvE  and either doesn't care for PvP or doesn't want PVP outside of dueling, guild wars and other predetermined arrangements. For those players, getting attacked once a play session or even once every other playsession is "over and over."  Offering PvE server removes that particular nuisance from their gameplay and makes for a far more attractive game for those looking for PvE gameplay.

 

Originally posted by Lukooone

Originally posted by PhillipVIII

FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

Did you ever hear the word "Trammel" , no? Google it and know what happened to the last full-loot FFAPVP game that did that big mistake...

let me get this straight:

the original server stays the same, they just add another server with different rules ... and when the population of the old one decline and game dies off, its the fault of the new server?

did they hold gun to the players and forced them to play on the pve server or what?

Originally posted by Lukooone

Originally posted by PhillipVIII

FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

Did you ever hear the word "Trammel" , no? Google it and know what happened to the last full-loot FFAPVP game that did that big mistake...

According to Sheet 2 of the XLS data at MMOGChart.com, after Trammel there was a noticeable increase in subscriber growth.

 

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Originally posted by Benedikt

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Originally posted by Lukooone

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Originally posted by PhillipVIII
FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

---

Did you ever hear the word "Trammel" , no? Google it and know what happened to the last full-loot FFAPVP game that did that big mistake...

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let me get this straight:
the original server stays the same, the just add another server with different rules ... and when the population of the old one decline and game dies off, its the fault of the old server?
did they hold gun to the players and forced them to play on the pve server or what?

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Ultima Online peaked in 2003, three years after Trammel released. The subscriber based has declined every year since then. The newer, shinier games released since then probably had a lot more to do with UO's decline than anything else.

** edit **
Trammel release year.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

 

Bunny, for the most part, I agree wtih you. However, consider the perception of the PVP systems in Xsyon/Darkfall by people who are normally PvPers. From your posts, I get the impression that you enjoy FFA PVP. If so, your idea of "over and over" is probably like mine - corpse camping, ress killing and the like. And, YES, I realize those are avoidable.  Now consider the person who likes PvE  and either doesn't care for PvP or doesn't want PVP outside of dueling, guild wars and other predetermined arrangements. For those players, getting attacked once a play session or even once every other playsession is "over and over."  Offering PvE server removes that particular nuisance from their gameplay and makes for a far more attractive game for those looking for PvE gameplay.

 

For a start I would find it pretty strange for a person who only likes pve and importantly, who cannot take being killed on the infrequent occassion, to be looking at a game with ffa, full loot pvp in it from the start.
Why exactly are they asking for a pve server in a game specifically made with ffa pvp in mind when there are countless pve games already out there? Is it due to some charitable concern that they hate to see games die regardless as to whether or not they are built to cater to them in the first place?

 

Adding a pve server for Darkfall to get more subs and thus more money would seem a great thing, until you really look at it. If (which I doubt) hordes of pve players poor onto the new server, do AV switch their focus to making pve and rp content above their original idea?

Do they scrap all their original plans in order to appease the new crowd?

What happens when they release a new pvp update, do you think the pve server players (who everyone is assuming to be in the majority) will be happy with not etting anything?

FFA  is a major mechanic, are AV going to have to develope two systems each time they update? With the size of their team and the current rate they can't even manage one in fairness, let alone two.

 

FFA pvp is far from the major issue with Darkfall.

 

As for the Trammel debate, of course subs increased, more people where coming into the genre for a start. The trouble is it was the beginning of the end, it split the community and it essentially turned the more populated server into just another pve mmo that had to compete with newer and shinier pve mmos. It lost part of it's soul, it lost part of it's defining feature and it died.

 

Make an EVE pve only server and see how that goes a couple of years down the line. Good luck trying to develop two systems at the same time, I wonder if they will drop updates for the one which the casual masses are not pumping their/their parents money into...

 

 

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Originally posted by bunnyhopper

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Originally posted by Loktofeit

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Originally posted by bunnyhopper

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Originally posted by Loktofeit

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

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Bunny, for the most part, I agree wtih you. However, consider the perception of the PVP systems in Xsyon/Darkfall by people who are normally PvPers. From your posts, I get the impression that you enjoy FFA PVP. If so, your idea of "over and over" is probably like mine - corpse camping, ress killing and the like. And, YES, I realize those are avoidable.  Now consider the person who likes PvE  and either doesn't care for PvP or doesn't want PVP outside of dueling, guild wars and other predetermined arrangements. For those players, getting attacked once a play session or even once every other playsession is "over and over."  Offering PvE server removes that particular nuisance from their gameplay and makes for a far more attractive game for those looking for PvE gameplay.
 

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For a start I would find it pretty strange for a person who only likes pve and importantly, who cannot take being killed on the infrequent occassion, to be looking at a game with ffa, full loot pvp in it from the start.
Why exactly are they asking for a pve server in a game specifically made with ffa pvp in mind when there are countless pve games already out there? Is it due to some charitable concern that they hate to see games die regardless as to whether or not they are built to cater to them in the first place?
 
Adding a pve server for Darkfall to get more subs and thus more money would seem a great thing, until you really look at it. If (which I doubt) hordes of pve players poor onto the new server, do AV switch their focus to making pve and rp content above their original idea?
Do they scrap all their original plans in order to appease the new crowd?
What happens when they release a new pvp update, do you think the pve server players (who everyone is assuming to be in the majority) will be happy with not etting anything?
FFA  is a major mechanic, are AV going to have to develope two systems each time they update? With the size of their team and the current rate they can't even manage one in fairness, let alone two.
 
FFA pvp is far from the major issue with Darkfall.

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They would probably make more money in that scenario going with a more PvE focused game, including having safe zones or a PvE server. They seem to be pretty attached to the whole FFA PvP thing though, so it doesn't seem like that's something they're going to change.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

For a start I would find it pretty strange for a person who only likes pve and importantly, who cannot take being killed on the infrequent occassion, to be looking at a game with ffa, full loot pvp in it from the start.
Why exactly are they asking for a pve server in a game specifically made with ffa pvp in mind when there are countless pve games already out there? Is it due to some charitable concern that they hate to see games die regardless as to whether or not they are built to cater to them in the first place?

Bunny, we're not talking about PvE players looking to play a FFA PvP game. We're talking about a PvE server and PVE players seeing the PvE aspect of it as enticing. Xsyon, Aion, early Lineage 2 and many other MMOs over the years have seen players come in, enjoying hte PvE but finding that the PvP is too pervasive or too intrusive to their gameplay. They then leave.

 

Look, I am not suggesting changing any of these games or suggesting that any of them would be a 'better' game if there was a PVE server. I am simply saying that Zylaxx's suggestion of a PvE server with consensual flagging would prove far more palatable and far more enjoyable for a wider audience. From the UO Trammel change over a decade ago to modern day EVE Online, it's clear that PVP-focused virutal worlds ( ones supporting more than just murdering each other) function best with relative safety for the PVErs who play the PVE content that supports the PVP game.

 

Originally posted by PhillipVIII

FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

I do not disagree but DF is not setup to go the PVE way.The world is extremely barren,there is almost no npc's,really it offers not a single thing for PVE.

This would mean AV would have to put in about 2 years work,however based on their small staff and how slow they move,that would be the equivbalent of about 5-7 more years.so it will never happen .

What would AV add anyhow?They imo are not capable of going advanced thinking,so it would end up being more of the same old same old,meaning boring quests to drive loot and faster leveling.

Originally posted by Lukooone

Originally posted by PhillipVIII

FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

Did you ever hear the word "Trammel" , no? Google it and know what happened to the last full-loot FFAPVP game that did that big mistake...

The game became more enjoyable for the majority of people that were playing it, and the amount of people playing shot up.

So... what was the point you were trying to make?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

 

Bunny, we're not talking about PvE players looking to play a FFA PvP game. We're talking about a PvE server and PVE players seeing the PvE aspect of it as enticing. Xsyon, Aion, early Lineage 2 and many other MMOs over the years have seen players come in, enjoying hte PvE but finding that the PvP is too pervasive or too intrusive to their gameplay. They then leave.

 

Look, I am not suggesting changing any of these games or suggesting that any of them would be a 'better' game if there was a PVE server. I am simply saying that Zylaxx's suggestion of a PvE server with consensual flagging would prove far more palatable and far more enjoyable for a wider audience. From the UO Trammel change over a decade ago to modern day EVE Online, it's clear that PVP-focused virutal worlds ( ones supporting more than just murdering each other) function best with relative safety for the PVErs who play the PVE content that supports the PVP game.

 

They may see more people move onto the pve server, and then that leaves the issues I have already stated. Do the dev team continue with their core concept and develop the pvp aspect first and foremost? Do they try and double the work load and effectively create two development lots each update cycle (the difference between a sandbox with ffa pvp systems and one with no such mechanics is rather large)? Do they drop the less in demand server or drop updates of it and focus on the more popular one?

 

You cannot simply tack on a pve only server ruleset of a sandbox built around ffa principles without causing major fking issues.

 

As for relative safety, relative to whom exactly? Where is the cut off point? When do you decide your game is 'popular' enough?

 

Darkfall is not meant to provide relative safety for the majority. It is not meant to cater to those who can't abide being killed in a computer game every so often.

 

The game would be fine if it addressed the issues that are keeping away the demographic it is targeting, i.e. pvpers.

Originally posted by PhillipVIII

FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

I don't think DF has enough Pve content to support a pve only ruleset.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Benedikt

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Originally posted by Lukooone

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Originally posted by PhillipVIII
FFA PvP is a turn off to most gamers today.  We have to face the music.  They knew it, we knew it too.  There's no pride if game is gonna tank.

---

Did you ever hear the word "Trammel" , no? Google it and know what happened to the last full-loot FFAPVP game that did that big mistake...

---

let me get this straight:
the original server stays the same, the just add another server with different rules ... and when the population of the old one decline and game dies off, its the fault of the old server?
did they hold gun to the players and forced them to play on the pve server or what?

---

Ultima Online peaked in 2003, three years after Trammel released. The subscriber based has declined every year since then. The newer, shinier games released since then probably had a lot more to do with UO's decline than anything else.

** edit **
Trammel release year.

 

dont tell it to me, i was just being sarcastic :)

tho i maybe confused you with a mistakenly writting "old server" instead of new server

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

 

Bunny, we're not talking about PvE players looking to play a FFA PvP game. We're talking about a PvE server and PVE players seeing the PvE aspect of it as enticing. Xsyon, Aion, early Lineage 2 and many other MMOs over the years have seen players come in, enjoying hte PvE but finding that the PvP is too pervasive or too intrusive to their gameplay. They then leave.

 

Look, I am not suggesting changing any of these games or suggesting that any of them would be a 'better' game if there was a PVE server. I am simply saying that Zylaxx's suggestion of a PvE server with consensual flagging would prove far more palatable and far more enjoyable for a wider audience. From the UO Trammel change over a decade ago to modern day EVE Online, it's clear that PVP-focused virutal worlds ( ones supporting more than just murdering each other) function best with relative safety for the PVErs who play the PVE content that supports the PVP game.

 

They may see more people move onto the pve server, and then that leaves the issues I have already stated. Do the dev team continue with their core concept and develop the pvp aspect first and foremost? Do they try and double the work load and effectively create two development lots each update cycle (the difference between a sandbox with ffa pvp systems and one with no such mechanics is rather large)? Do they drop the less in demand server or drop updates of it and focus on the more popular one?

 

You cannot simply tack on a pve only server ruleset of a sandbox built around ffa principles without causing major fking issues.

 

As for relative safety, relative to whom exactly? Where is the cut off point? When do you decide your game is 'popular' enough?

 

Some people seem to have failed to have grasped the fact that Darkfall is not meant to be provide relative safety  for the majority. It is not meant to cater to those who can't abide being killed in a computer game every so often.

 

The game would be fine if it addressed the issues that are keeping away the demographic it is targeting, i.e. pvpers.

 

No one in this discussion is suggesting a zero PVP server. We're talking about Zylaxx's suggestion of PVE with guild warfare or other some other consensual PVP system. We are not talking about the OP's suggestion of PVE Only.

Relative safety: An area of relative safety can exist on the same server. It doesn't have to be as black and white as the UO facets. EVE has shown that it is extremely effective and makes for a much more enjoyable PvE portion of the game for many. This should also address your concerns about branching code - one system, one codebase. 

 

We didn't fail to grasp anything. I think everyone here realizes that there is no expected level of safety for anyone in Darkfall. IMO, that is one of its greatest flaws and what prevents an otherwise very good conquest game from being much more than it currently is. That's another topic entirely, though.