Originally posted by augustgrace

One of the reasons for the move to Greece, was that the Greek government was offering subsidies to software companies.  Does anyone know if those subsidies are still being handed out?  Sounds pretty unlikely given Greece's economic situation.

The loss of government subsidies would have a nasty and noticable affect on Aventurine's bottom line.  Of course they also have other projects that bring in money, but without the subsidies are subs enough for the game to remain profitable.?

• Aventurine received development grants for Darkfall Online by the Hellenic Ministry of Development related to law 3299/2004 (Private Investment for Economic Growth and Regional Convergence)

• The project "Development, Marketing and Distribution of the Subscription-Based Online Game Darkfall" was funded by the Information Society under Measure 4.3 "Advanced telecommunications services for the citizen", for the Action "Funding of Enterprises for Implementation of Advanced Broadband Services".

• The Hellenic Secretariat of Research and Technology funded Aventurine's research proposal for the design and development of next generation 3D engine technologies.

• Partner in a joint research proposal on Virtual Collaborative Environments with the University of Dublin, MIT's MediaLab Europe, Siemens, Fraunhofer-Gesellshcaft, and SINTEF Telecom and Informatics, under the EU Sixth Framework Programme's e-Inclusion research initiative.

Do a quick google search of adventurine.  They also assist with GPS trackign systems for greek shipping, on top of classified millitary projects.

They wont shut down because of darkfall, and i doubt darkfall will shutdown as a game due to low player base.  They might be using the game as a testbed for technology related to their other business adventures.

Oh and shipping in greece is something major...and millitary projects are known to be lucrative.  My guess is that darkfall could easily stay afloat with one subscriber.

Might i add...development companys dont typically develop games before shutting them down.

Seems like a flimsy prediction based on the OP's dislike for the game.  You know the narcassistic point of veiw that "if i dont like it no one should like it so it must fail".

Originally posted by strangerdang

Do a quick google search of adventurine.  They also assist with GPS trackign systems for greek shipping, on top of classified millitary projects.

Reading comprehension fail. You refer to their Past Commercial Projects. 

They wont shut down because of darkfall, and i doubt darkfall will shutdown as a game due to low player base.  They might be using the game as a testbed for technology related to their other business adventures.

More reading fail. According to their own website there are no other "business adventures" (it's ventures by the way) except Darkfall and the Darkfall engine.

Oh and shipping in greece is something major...and millitary projects are known to be lucrative.  My guess is that darkfall could easily stay afloat with one subscriber.

No such thinig as military projects, get it in your head, read again. 

Might i add...development companys dont typically develop games before shutting them down.

Seems like a flimsy prediction based on the OP's dislike for the game.  You know the narcassistic point of veiw that "if i dont like it no one should like it so it must fail".

Seems like very sloppy reading on your behalf

On their Website, under Future Projects you will find only the following:

"Our main focus is Darkfall Online and most of our resources are currently engaged in that, however at Aventurine we constantly strive for progress, improvement and growth. We currently have a couple of projects underway:

- An undisclosed online game project in the planning stages.

- Technology licensing to a spin out company for the creation of a Massive Multiplayer Game.

At this time, no more information is available on the projects above but keep checking this space for more information in the future."

If they fail with Darkfall or with licensing their engine, then they are done for good.

Im just wondering why the hell this game is pay to play? Are they on crack thinking it's going to work out good?

Second what will happen when they wipe the entire game? Think about all those people who have been subbing for years (don't remember how long it's been out)

I played the CB and it was a great and fun game but not worth paying for. I guess the game is now a disaster because starting out as a new player is probably horrifying.

Let's see what happens in 2.0. It doesn't matter how greatly they change the game, if they keep the game p2p it's doomed ether way.

Originally posted by Chimps

Im just wondering why the hell this game is pay to play? Are they on crack thinking it's going to work out good?

Second what will happen when they wipe the entire game? Think about all those people who have been subbing for years (don't remember how long it's been out)

 

I played the CB and it was a great and fun game but not worth paying for. I guess the game is now a disaster because starting out as a new player is probably horrifying.

 

Let's see what happens in 2.0. It doesn't matter how greatly they change the game, if they keep the game p2p it's doomed ether way.

F2P in a pvp centric sandbox with looting is going to be an interesting one. Who is going to fork out money for items just to get them taken off them when the get wtfpwnd? How long would it be before it is pay2win?

The fee is not the issue with the game, nor is it the vision. Plenty of people (in comparison to now) would glady sub for the game if it worked and didn't comprise of a three year power pve grind. It's the failure to address the glaring issues and more importantly the fact that they keep talking a good game but failing to produce any actual evidence that they are going to implement it sometime this decade.

The wipe is an interesting one. If they don't wipe and if they don't sort out the disparity then they are never going to get a larger amount of subs then they already have. If they can run the game and make a proft with what they have then fair enough. If they wipe and the rest of the features are not brought up to spec then they will lose what players they have and fail to gain more. If they wipe and produce a quality product, then they have a great chance of grabing pvp market share.

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by strangerdang

Do a quick google search of adventurine.  They also assist with GPS trackign systems for greek shipping, on top of classified millitary projects.

Reading comprehension fail. You refer to their Past Commercial Projects. 

They wont shut down because of darkfall, and i doubt darkfall will shutdown as a game due to low player base.  They might be using the game as a testbed for technology related to their other business adventures.

More reading fail. According to their own website there are no other "business adventures" (it's ventures by the way) except Darkfall and the Darkfall engine.

Oh and shipping in greece is something major...and millitary projects are known to be lucrative.  My guess is that darkfall could easily stay afloat with one subscriber.

No such thinig as military projects, get it in your head, read again. 

Might i add...development companys dont typically develop games before shutting them down.

Seems like a flimsy prediction based on the OP's dislike for the game.  You know the narcassistic point of veiw that "if i dont like it no one should like it so it must fail".

Seems like very sloppy reading on your behalf

 

On their Website, under Future Projects you will find only the following:

 

"Our main focus is Darkfall Online and most of our resources are currently engaged in that, however at Aventurine we constantly strive for progress, improvement and growth. We currently have a couple of projects underway:

---

- An undisclosed online game project in the planning stages.

---

- Technology licensing to a spin out company for the creation of a Massive Multiplayer Game.

---

At this time, no more information is available on the projects above but keep checking this space for more information in the future."

 

If they fail with Darkfall or with licensing their engine, then they are done for good.

Again wishfull thinking.  If AV was in such dire financial waters they would not have been able to afford a new HQ building, a new motion capture studio, and to update the game as they have been doing.

Im not sure as to how their "past projects" panned out, as im sure you dont know.  Its safe to say that technology used to track greek shipping and classified military projects were very profitable, and we both dont know the terms of those projects, such as if it was technoligy rented, and if they are still recieving income from it.

Its also a logical assumption that if darkfall was pulling all the weight financially that AV would have gone under long ago, wouldnt have purchased a nice HQ in athens, wouldnt have purchased a motion capture studio ect.  However those are still going strong.

I realize that some people have issues with the fact that since they dislike a game and company, that they assume its a terrible game and company and deserves financial ruin, since the classic narcissistic view follows the lines of "if i dont like it no one should like it and it deserves to fail"

Realize that plenty of people do enjoy the game, despite that may be a number far smaller than your preferd conglomerate made themepark.

Seems your looking at the game/company through these narcissistic lenses, if they were banking on the engin licensing as the onyl means to save the company, assets would have been sold, and development would have been halted.  Neither has happend.  Heaven forbid you knew how to run a business or even realized what a company in financial ruins acts or is operated.  Enjoy picking select comments to counter while ignoring the majority of what i typed and the main point, i look forward to an inteligent response /s  Perhaps you need to work on reading comprehension a bit more before using that as the basis of replying to a post.

Originally posted by pupurun

• The Hellenic Secretariat of Research and Technology funded Aventurine's research proposal for the design and development of next generation 3D engine technologies.

Well the Hellenic Secretariat of Research and Technology sure are going to be disappointed...

Poor coding, doesn't even come close to rivaling other 3D engines, no new innovations, etc. I sure would be asking for my money back....

Originally posted by strangerdang

 

Again wishfull thinking.  If AV was in such dire financial waters they would not have been able to afford a new HQ building, a new motion capture studio, and to update the game as they have been doing.

Im not sure as to how their "past projects" panned out, as im sure you dont know.  Its safe to say that technology used to track greek shipping and classified military projects were very profitable, and we both dont know the terms of those projects, such as if it was technoligy rented, and if they are still recieving income from it.

Its also a logical assumption that if darkfall was pulling all the weight financially that AV would have gone under long ago, wouldnt have purchased a nice HQ in athens, wouldnt have purchased a motion capture studio ect.  However those are still going strong.

I realize that some people have issues with the fact that since they dislike a game and company, that they assume its a terrible game and company and deserves financial ruin, since the classic narcissistic view follows the lines of "if i dont like it no one should like it and it deserves to fail"

Realize that plenty of people do enjoy the game, despite that may be a number far smaller than your preferd conglomerate made themepark.

 

Seems your looking at the game/company through these narcissistic lenses, if they were banking on the engin licensing as the onyl means to save the company, assets would have been sold, and development would have been halted.  Neither has happend.  Heaven forbid you knew how to run a business or even realized what a company in financial ruins acts or is operated.  Enjoy picking select comments to counter while ignoring the majority of what i typed and the main point, i look forward to an inteligent response /s  Perhaps you need to work on reading comprehension a bit more before using that as the basis of replying to a post.

Be careful with that. Their moved into their new HQ very early on in DarkFall's development (I believe it was around early summer of 2009, which they gladly provided pictures of) Back then tons of people were still buying DarkFall so they have a very good stream of income.  The Motion Capture Studio...we've never seen anything to prove it's existence. Also, none of the updates by Aventurine have used Motion Capture, nor have they made mention of using that technology in their blog updates. Chances are much higher that the Motion Capture Studio (which can be quite expensive I may add) is vapor(ware). 

And as far as updating the games, I got a kick at "updating the game as much as they do". So far, with the exception of the latest Siege Patch (which is likely an exhibition of Aventurine finally turning clever and putting a launch date when they've already finished the patch), all patches and updates were released with severe delays. All the updates were also very small in size (not in terms of Gigabyte of data added, but in terms of what was added) and features added were done in a very half-assed way with promises to update them later (Villages...Trade Routes...etc).

We've only had 3 "Expansions" so far.The first in summer 2009 which added Villages, Chaos Chest, etc. The second (CtS) brought some changes to monsters difficulty, added Sea Tower and Specialization, Trade Routes. The 3rd added Kraken, World Graphical revamp and some changes to monsters skills and locations. Looking at the actual size and content added by those "Expansions" they do not even classify as Expansions (with the exception of the graphical update which admittedly was a fairly big task). Let's not forget the bugs and glitches that takes several months to fix (and even years) such as Water Logging, Portal Logging, Flying Underwater, Underwater Casting, Underwater BlueTail, Revive Players keeping Enchantments on without having the gear, etc. Some of these took several months to be addressed while others have yet, to this day, to be fixed.  To top it off, they've made all those lies about DarkFall 2010/Arena/2.0 and will likely won't see 2.0 until 2012-2013 while DarkFall 1's population continues to dwindle down because of  the uncertainty of a wipe.

As far as revenue goes, we haven't heard of them hiring new staff in quite a while. Aventurine has not been able to demonstrate growth at all. They've always boasted when they hired new developers and changed studios and whatnot, but we've got nothing since, so I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the "Aventurine is doing fine". It's possible that with the current population they can still sustain the servers and developer cost, but given the lack of growth (which any healthy company would've shown), we can only expect more delays and lengthy wait before we see an actual update/expansion.

Perhaps it is you who should remove those pink glasses you're wearing and look at what's really happening. Do realize that, players are only disappointed by Aventurine because of Aventurine itself. It's not about hating the game and the company or being "narcissist" (wherever the hell that came from) , but because Aventurine has brought it upon themselves by either not listening to the playerbase or lying to their playerbase. However, it doesn't remove the fact that DarkFall is a "great game" with potential.  But as far as "plenty of people enjoy the game", I'm skeptical...very skeptical. At launch they were plenty of people playing, you couldn't venture in the forest without ending up getting ganked by a group roaming around. Nowadays you run for hours and hours without ever meeting anybody, you enter Clan Cities to see 2-3 players AFK macro'ing their skills up, etc. And hell, it's gotten worse since Aventurine made the mention of a wipe. By no mean should this classify as "plenty of people".

Guys people need to get off this THERE NOT EXPANSIONS  crap.  If you take 5 minutes to look at the industry and see the wide array of things the term expansion is used for you will see Darkfalls expansions fall easily within this field.  Towards the smaller end but easily in the spectrum.

ANd no darkfall i am pretty sure it not going to close soon.  They did well early on for an indy game plus they are privately backed by one large donner who is very into the game and competition.  

I'm done with AV, I'm not naive enough to invest any more of my gaming time with them.  They can stick their DF 2.0 where the sun dont shine as it will be just as many bugs with a slow response to fix them. There will be better things to play and invest your online gaming time into than this shady company.

I don't think anyone here really knows AV's financial situation or what their main priorities are. I don't see any links to back up of the financial claims whether they are doing well or poorly. 

But it does seem like Darkfall is more of a hobby to AV than a main business concern.

EDIT: Italicized and bold-faced the word "seem."

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by pupurun

• The Hellenic Secretariat of Research and Technology funded Aventurine's research proposal for the design and development of next generation 3D engine technologies.

Well the Hellenic Secretariat of Research and Technology sure are going to be disappointed...

Poor coding, doesn't even come close to rivaling other 3D engines, no new innovations, etc. I sure would be asking for my money back....

Darkfall problem is game design not coding.  The game has run fine for me and most people who used it.  The game suffered from hackers and probably still does but most every game with massive realtime combat has this happen,  even if your a coding god.

I am probably say darkfall coding is pretty high end.  There game design though is amature.  

Originally posted by xBludx

I don't think anyone here really knows AV's financial situation or what their main priorities are. I don't see any links to back up of the financial claims whether they are doing well or poorly. 

But it does seem like Darkfall is more of a hobby to AV than a main business concern.

I would not say something this large could be a hobby for a company of 30-40 people.

Originally posted by strangerdang

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by strangerdang

Do a quick google search of adventurine.  They also assist with GPS trackign systems for greek shipping, on top of classified millitary projects.

Reading comprehension fail. You refer to their Past Commercial Projects. 

They wont shut down because of darkfall, and i doubt darkfall will shutdown as a game due to low player base.  They might be using the game as a testbed for technology related to their other business adventures.

More reading fail. According to their own website there are no other "business adventures" (it's ventures by the way) except Darkfall and the Darkfall engine.

Oh and shipping in greece is something major...and millitary projects are known to be lucrative.  My guess is that darkfall could easily stay afloat with one subscriber.

No such thinig as military projects, get it in your head, read again. 

Might i add...development companys dont typically develop games before shutting them down.

Seems like a flimsy prediction based on the OP's dislike for the game.  You know the narcassistic point of veiw that "if i dont like it no one should like it so it must fail".

Seems like very sloppy reading on your behalf

 

On their Website, under Future Projects you will find only the following:

 

"Our main focus is Darkfall Online and most of our resources are currently engaged in that, however at Aventurine we constantly strive for progress, improvement and growth. We currently have a couple of projects underway:

---

- An undisclosed online game project in the planning stages.

---

- Technology licensing to a spin out company for the creation of a Massive Multiplayer Game.

---

At this time, no more information is available on the projects above but keep checking this space for more information in the future."

 

If they fail with Darkfall or with licensing their engine, then they are done for good.

 

Again wishfull thinking.  If AV was in such dire financial waters they would not have been able to afford a new HQ building, a new motion capture studio, and to update the game as they have been doing.

Im not sure as to how their "past projects" panned out, as im sure you dont know.  Its safe to say that technology used to track greek shipping and classified military projects were very profitable, and we both dont know the terms of those projects, such as if it was technoligy rented, and if they are still recieving income from it.

...yada yada yada

Your reading skills are amazing, all these assumptions about me just because i corrected your post in which you clearly where not able to read and comprehend the source you cited.

Just let it go man. I don't care about the game at all. I was merely reading this for amusement and while checking your facts you cited i found that your reading skills are zero and you are full of gobbeldygook.

Would you lie for $?

lol

I wouldn't count on Darkfall shutting down anytime soon.

Its still one of its kind and much better than most MMORPGs.

Originally posted by cheyane

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Ecoces

they should have made a non full loot consensual PVP server and i bet it would be doing a lot better. I know I know i'm a carebears but guess what we carebears pay the bills while you PVPers just drive us away from games.

 I agree. Before you call us Trammelites for destroying your favourite game, check the facts first.

(And the fact is, Trammel almost doubled UO subs in less than 2 years).

Please do not let facts get in the way of fantasy. It is always way easier to blame Trammel for what happened to UO. If it was so great before Trammel why did people leave  it. They lost their victim base ,that is what happened.

right now the full loot pvp aspect of the game is the least of the problems it has

like we told you guys in THE OTHER THREAD ABOUT MAKING PVE SERVER. and you seem NOT TO UNDERSTAND

that the way the game is made it is IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A PVE SERVER with the CORE set of MECHANICS that power the game.

you could, but might as well make a new game, it will take less effort and ressources.

the reason i quit is because the lack of clan alliance advanced mechanics, when you spend 3+ years in EvE online and play with territory control, and control tower sieges (real sieges) and gain and loss of territory with large alliances coalitions and a security system put in place by the players themselves, then you come to DFO and its there is just no point in being part of an alliance since they disband after the job is done. there is no long term relations and growth.

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

Originally posted by cheyane

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Ecoces

they should have made a non full loot consensual PVP server and i bet it would be doing a lot better. I know I know i'm a carebears but guess what we carebears pay the bills while you PVPers just drive us away from games.

 I agree. Before you call us Trammelites for destroying your favourite game, check the facts first.

(And the fact is, Trammel almost doubled UO subs in less than 2 years).

Please do not let facts get in the way of fantasy. It is always way easier to blame Trammel for what happened to UO. If it was so great before Trammel why did people leave  it. They lost their victim base ,that is what happened.

right now the full loot pvp aspect of the game is the least of the problems it has

like we told you guys in THE OTHER THREAD ABOUT MAKING PVE SERVER. and you seem NOT TO UNDERSTAND

that the way the game is made it is IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE A PVE SERVER with the CORE set of MECHANICS that power the game.

you could, but might as well make a new game, it will take less effort and ressources.

 

the reason i quit is because the lack of clan alliance advanced mechanics, when you spend 3+ years in EvE online and play with territory control, and control tower sieges (real sieges) and gain and loss of territory with large alliances coalitions and a security system put in place by the players themselves, then you come to DFO and its there is just no point in being part of an alliance since they disband after the job is done. there is no long term relations and growth.

And that might be one reason why Darkfall is doing so terribly.  At least with UO, PvP didn't define the ENTIRE game even though a lot of people devoted a significant amount of their time to it.