Originally posted by Silverbarr

Originally posted by TigerDriver

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by LisXia

<..>

All the OP is saying is, this project is not worth his money, and he tells us why.  The OP is saying, he does not want to be milked by paying for the claimed production of another game, while being served a dead game this is not maintained.  That is not what he expects from paying for an online game.

<...>

To say the current game is not maintained is factual wrong. It got several patches this year including bigger changes like the wilderness area and chaos churches and it will also get a siege mechanics revamp.

The "milked by paying ..for another game" is also used contradictional.  Darkfall chapter 2.0  is a update to the game and falls also under the category "maintanance". Paying them to update the game is perfectly fine and sounds very reasonable makes both the game not dead and the game receives "maintantance".

 That is not correct. Aventurine has stated DF 2.0 is "a new game" which I assume is to pave the way for a server wipe (of some type) like AV has talked about.

Aventurine has stated that they are not in fact going to be updating DF 1.0 past the siege system patch which is still not in game after stating they it would be in-game June'ish /then July'ish /then we are working on it /then we are not sure when it will be, after stating it was finished and being tested right now.

This is why I started this thread. Because Aventurine continues to decive,double-talk, *what ever word you want to use to describe* to continue misleading the player base from week to week, month to month.

If they were testing it, then don't you expect that if a problem has been found that they need to then work on it? These things happen in all MMO's making a post in order to discredit a whole company due to your own personal opinion is just immature really.

 

M

 Agreed. I am diffently not complaining about the time it takes to fix bugs in the siege system. It was this quote

Edit : found the part that bothered me and a lot of people.

http://www.darkfallonline.com/blog/darkfall-siege-mechanics-and-values-balancing-feedback/

As we mentioned in the previous activity report, the new siege system is complete and in the testing and balancing phases....We also mentioned that it is completely configurable. We’re testing the functionality of it right now but the big task is getting the balance right and for this we’ll need input from Darkfall’s players

If they were testing it in May for DF 1.0 (because DF 2.0 at this point has not even been mentioned, its under the X-pac name 'arena' ) how can the huge problem with the new siege system be getting it converted from DF 2.0 to work with 1.0?  

Originally posted by Loke666

And of course like most none Greece people does it seems to me like they always have vactions and retire many years before anyone else. ;)

Well i am Greek ..and you are Swedish ..And just because we have a financial crisis , this doesn't mean that it was cause by our lazyness or our many days of holidays..Don't eat what your TV is feeding you.Check this out

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/qualityoflife/eurlife/index.php?template=3&radioindic=175&idDomain=2&firstDifferentiator=475

Originally posted by pupurun

Originally posted by Loke666

And of course like most none Greece people does it seems to me like they always have vactions and retire many years before anyone else. ;)

Well i am Greek ..and you are Swedish ..And just because we have a financial crisis , this doesn't mean that it was cause by our lazyness or our many days of holidays..Don't eat what your TV is feeding you.Check this out

http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/areas/qualityoflife/eurlife/index.php?template=3&radioindic=175&idDomain=2&firstDifferentiator=475

You should probably explain that the 'EL' bar represents Greece.

Originally posted by Loke666

I am not sure post count is the thing that make criticism valid or not.

His point is that AVI have been slowing down their speed of patching a lot and that is true.

I wouldn't call it a legitime reason to quit or not trying out the game at all, but if you already are disgruntled on other stuff it might be the last drop.

And of course like most none Greece people does it seems to me like they always have vactions and retire many years before anyone else. ;)

Still, if you enjoy your time in the game you should keep playing, if not stop waste your time-

The relative work week has already been pointed out. I'd just like to point out that a good portion of the core staff is Norwegian (formerly Razorwax) Moving to Greece may be a big part of why Darkfall has come as far as it has (between the lower cost of living and the government grats for side projects)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventurine_SA

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Loke666

I am not sure post count is the thing that make criticism valid or not.

His point is that AVI have been slowing down their speed of patching a lot and that is true.

I wouldn't call it a legitime reason to quit or not trying out the game at all, but if you already are disgruntled on other stuff it might be the last drop.

And of course like most none Greece people does it seems to me like they always have vactions and retire many years before anyone else. ;)

Still, if you enjoy your time in the game you should keep playing, if not stop waste your time-

The relative work week has already been pointed out. I'd just like to point out that a good portion of the core staff is Norwegian (formerly Razorwax) Moving to Greece may be a big part of why Darkfall has come as far as it has (between the lower cost of living and the government grats for side projects)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventurine_SA

The sad thing is AVI failed to pull it off.  Not even close.  They produced a game that is totally different from what they promised.  Too many fans fall in love with the original dreams and find the final delivery pathetic.

As always it is bad to promise something you cannot deliver, not even remotely close.

Originally posted by LisXia

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Loke666

I am not sure post count is the thing that make criticism valid or not.

His point is that AVI have been slowing down their speed of patching a lot and that is true.

I wouldn't call it a legitime reason to quit or not trying out the game at all, but if you already are disgruntled on other stuff it might be the last drop.

And of course like most none Greece people does it seems to me like they always have vactions and retire many years before anyone else. ;)

Still, if you enjoy your time in the game you should keep playing, if not stop waste your time-

The relative work week has already been pointed out. I'd just like to point out that a good portion of the core staff is Norwegian (formerly Razorwax) Moving to Greece may be a big part of why Darkfall has come as far as it has (between the lower cost of living and the government grats for side projects)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventurine_SA

The sad thing is AVI failed to pull it off.  Not even close.  They produced a game that is totally different from what they promised.  Too many fans fall in love with the original dreams and find the final delivery pathetic.

As always it is bad to promise something you cannot deliver, not even remotely close.

 What the heck are you talking about?

They promised a sandbox ffa full loot game and its by far the best one out there.

They produced a totally diffrent game....its been out for a while now, not sure what you were expecting but how can you fall in love with whatever original dreams they had years ago if that game was never produced?  Just bit they hype and never let go?  Pretty sure what were playing now is the full loot sandbox they originally promised.

Also, your response had nothing to do with the two quotes you referenced., im a bit confused why you even quoted anyone if you wanted to put a random negative review over what you thought this game was going to be like several years ago.

Originally posted by strangerdang

 What the heck are you talking about? They promised a sandbox ffa full loot game and its by far the best one out there. Pretty sure what were playing now is the full loot sandbox they originally promised.

No, DF1 is not the game AV promised us, but hopefully DF2 will be that game.

This awesome mmo can only muster a few hundred players prime time, and that tells you how AV fucked up. You can not make a game normal players can`t play. When you have to spend your whole evening running around in an empty map just to find another player, you`re pretty rude if you call it a pvp mmo.

Fact is a WOW player will have ten times as much pvp as a Darkfall player, and the WOW player will kill ten times less NPCs than a Darkfall player. I know, I`ve played bouth for years. Sure you can get jumped in this FFA game when you have to kill 20000 NPC just to start to pvp. It doesn`t mean the game is any good.

Darkfall is not a pvp mmo, it`s a full-loot PVE mmo. All the good pvpers left after three months, and we are left with Korean clones and achivers. If they fail to make DF2 a game for normal persons, then they can just kill this grindy PVE mmo.

And yes, I`ve been pissed for the last 1 1/2 years

Originally posted by strangerdang

Originally posted by LisXia

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Loke666

I am not sure post count is the thing that make criticism valid or not.

His point is that AVI have been slowing down their speed of patching a lot and that is true.

I wouldn't call it a legitime reason to quit or not trying out the game at all, but if you already are disgruntled on other stuff it might be the last drop.

And of course like most none Greece people does it seems to me like they always have vactions and retire many years before anyone else. ;)

Still, if you enjoy your time in the game you should keep playing, if not stop waste your time-

The relative work week has already been pointed out. I'd just like to point out that a good portion of the core staff is Norwegian (formerly Razorwax) Moving to Greece may be a big part of why Darkfall has come as far as it has (between the lower cost of living and the government grats for side projects)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aventurine_SA

The sad thing is AVI failed to pull it off.  Not even close.  They produced a game that is totally different from what they promised.  Too many fans fall in love with the original dreams and find the final delivery pathetic.

As always it is bad to promise something you cannot deliver, not even remotely close.

 What the heck are you talking about?

They promised a sandbox ffa full loot game and its by far the best one out there.

 

They produced a totally diffrent game....its been out for a while now, not sure what you were expecting but how can you fall in love with whatever original dreams they had years ago if that game was never produced?  Just bit they hype and never let go?  Pretty sure what were playing now is the full loot sandbox they originally promised.

 

Also, your response had nothing to do with the two quotes you referenced., im a bit confused why you even quoted anyone if you wanted to put a random negative review over what you thought this game was going to be like several years ago.

If you have to ask me what the heck I am saying, you know nothing.

Ask around the old fans, how much AVI has promised which never make it to the game.  They promised a world in which there is pve, there is everything.  They delivered an empty world in which people struggle to even control the interface.  They deliver a game in which cheaters farm the game for shortcuts, in which boats can fly, swimmers swim faster than boats, people can walk under a city wall, runner outsped a mount ...

AVI is so shameless they did not modify that list of promise well into early launch, and everyone sees how crippled the game feature delivery is, comparing to the promise.  They double charge people after they create a new server, and pretend it is a new service, the US server.  Come on, which game charge subscribers again with their second server, would WoW charge us when we create a new alt on another server?

They lie and lie, piling excuse after excuse, and you ask me, what the heck am i saying?  Never mind.

I have no issues with you loving the game, it is the best to you, who cares.  I do not understand why I cannot love the original claims of AVI, they promised, they suggested quite a good gaming world, that is what attracted me, and many others.  When they delivered that pile of )(%&, many of us feel sad, some claimed betrayed, some raged, 90+% of the fans left.  Why?  Because AVI promised the world but delivered a turd.  Why can't we be disappointed.  It has been delivered, so we must accept it?

If you think that AVI promised only a full loot ffa pvp at the start, you need to wake up.  If all you seek is full loot ffa pvp, that is you, not many of us care for just that.  If AVI promised only full loot ffa pvp in an empty world with endless grind, no stat cap, and ample opportunity to cheat, they are at least honest.  But they were not, never was, never will be.  period.

Originally posted by LisXia

If you have to ask me what the heck I am saying, you know nothing.

Ask around the old fans, how much AVI has promised which never make it to the game.  They promised a world in which there is pve, there is everything.  They delivered an empty world in which people struggle to even control the interface.  They deliver a game in which cheaters farm the game for shortcuts, in which boats can fly, swimmers swim faster than boats, people can walk under a city wall, runner outsped a mount ...

There is a lot of PvE (hence ask the FPS crowd who will tell you there is TOO MUCH of it) and i doubt AV or anyone creating  a game will promise "everything".  The world is also not empty is just you don't stumble on critters on every step like in most MMORPG's which is a different and refreshing approach to the Genre. They promised monsters will have their own habitats and settlements and thats what they delivered.  Cheating occurs in every game and AV is one of those companies who took this seriously and cut every hacking down pretty fast. It is no coincidence that there is only 1 ! time a report of a flying boat as you say. It is also no coincidence the reports of runner outspeed mount or run under city walls and are faster then boats are now about 2 years old. Those things are almost non existant because of AV's measures against it. It was really impressive how such things got silenced pretty fast.

AVI is so shameless they did not modify that list of promise well into early launch, and everyone sees how crippled the game feature delivery is, comparing to the promise.  They double charge people after they create a new server, and pretend it is a new service, the US server.  Come on, which game charge subscribers again with their second server, would WoW charge us when we create a new alt on another server?

That could be a perception from someone reading up the planned feature list from alpha and not closely following development afterwards.  From my observation they delivered what they promised if you follow their development process and watch closely the announcements what will be not included duringthe  beta testing phase. They offered free transfer to US server for existing subscribers so what you talking about double charge ?  

They lie and lie, piling excuse after excuse, and you ask me, what the heck am i saying?  Never mind.

I have no issues with you loving the game, it is the best to you, who cares.  I do not understand why I cannot love the original claims of AVI, they promised, they suggested quite a good gaming world, that is what attracted me, and many others.  When they delivered that pile of )(%&, many of us feel sad, some claimed betrayed, some raged, 90+% of the fans left.  Why?  Because AVI promised the world but delivered a turd.  Why can't we be disappointed.  It has been delivered, so we must accept it?

If you think that AVI promised only a full loot ffa pvp at the start, you need to wake up.  If all you seek is full loot ffa pvp, that is you, not many of us care for just that.  If AVI promised only full loot ffa pvp in an empty world with endless grind, no stat cap, and ample opportunity to cheat, they are at least honest.  But they were not, never was, never will be.  period.

 

IMO you belong to the people who during developement created their own version of  DF in their mind and can't accept any other real implementation. Living in a nice dream is better then any reality right ?  Unfortunately while developing a game  you need to undergo  compromises such of that performance is more important then placing things on the ground and clutter the landscape and bulk the server.

btw such a discussion is pretty old and remember me what has been discussed at launch to death already. Now 2,5  years later you should accept DF what it is and get over it. OP also said he had great fun with the game how it is for a big period of time.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by LisXia

If you have to ask me what the heck I am saying, you know nothing.

Ask around the old fans, how much AVI has promised which never make it to the game.  They promised a world in which there is pve, there is everything.  They delivered an empty world in which people struggle to even control the interface.  They deliver a game in which cheaters farm the game for shortcuts, in which boats can fly, swimmers swim faster than boats, people can walk under a city wall, runner outsped a mount ...

There is a lot of PvE (hence ask the FPS crowd who will tell you there is TOO MUCH of it) and i doubt AV or anyone creating  a game will promise "everything".  The world is also not empty is just you don't stumble on critters on every step like in most MMORPG's which is a different and refreshing approach to the Genre. They promised monsters will have their own habitats and settlements and thats what they delivered.  Cheating occurs in every game and AV is one of those companies who took this seriously and cut every hacking down pretty fast. It is no coincidence that there is only 1 ! time a report of a flying boat as you say. It is also no coincidence the reports of runner outspeed mount or run under city walls and are faster then boats are now about 2 years old. Those things are almost non existant because of AV's measures against it. It was really impressive how such things got silenced pretty fast.

AVI is so shameless they did not modify that list of promise well into early launch, and everyone sees how crippled the game feature delivery is, comparing to the promise.  They double charge people after they create a new server, and pretend it is a new service, the US server.  Come on, which game charge subscribers again with their second server, would WoW charge us when we create a new alt on another server?

That could be a perception from someone reading up the planned feature list from alpha and not closely following development afterwards.  From my observation they delivered what they promised if you follow their development process and watch closely the announcements what will be not included duringthe  beta testing phase. They offered free transfer to US server for existing subscribers so what you talking about double charge ?  

They lie and lie, piling excuse after excuse, and you ask me, what the heck am i saying?  Never mind.

I have no issues with you loving the game, it is the best to you, who cares.  I do not understand why I cannot love the original claims of AVI, they promised, they suggested quite a good gaming world, that is what attracted me, and many others.  When they delivered that pile of )(%&, many of us feel sad, some claimed betrayed, some raged, 90+% of the fans left.  Why?  Because AVI promised the world but delivered a turd.  Why can't we be disappointed.  It has been delivered, so we must accept it?

If you think that AVI promised only a full loot ffa pvp at the start, you need to wake up.  If all you seek is full loot ffa pvp, that is you, not many of us care for just that.  If AVI promised only full loot ffa pvp in an empty world with endless grind, no stat cap, and ample opportunity to cheat, they are at least honest.  But they were not, never was, never will be.  period.

 

IMO you belong to the people who during developement created their own version of  DF in their mind and can't accept any other real implementation. Living in a nice dream is better then any reality right ?  Unfortunately while developing a game  you need to undergo  compromises such of that performance is more important then placing things on the ground and clutter the landscape and bulk the server.

btw such a discussion is pretty old and remember me what has been discussed at launch to death already. Now 2,5  years later you should accept DF what it is and get over it. OP also said he had great fun with the game how it is for a big period of time.

 1- hacking was so bad, for so long (first year) , I didnt think it was possible to have that many people hacking in a single game and they only cracked down once (last year). Sea tower fights are still looted by china farmers warping to graves (a month ago) and my largest siege fight (2'ish months ago) whole groups of people road bluetails underwater to graves. hacking today in darkfall is still higher % then any MMO out there.

2- A lot of features where hyped right up to open beta (effecting the pvp style of your city/hamlet area) but I think four legged run is the one that fucked a lot of players since it was promised thru beta, thru EU first year , thru the start of NA and then deemed 'to powerfull' and shelved, leaving people who had waited 2 years after rolling mahirim hanging with no race changes. (they ended  up giving mahirim the OP racial but this was a good example of things promised right up to the day of 'oh ya, naa were not doing that anymore- my bad'

3- Aventurine in fact fucked guys who opt'd to play on EU with the promise they would be allowed to transfere for free to NA because they were not the "publisher" for the NA server and told people they had to rebuy the game. After much backlash (3 months?) they reversed their ruling and said in fact you could now transfere to NA in 3 months for free. Bonus points for guessing who the publisher of the darkfall NA server is

4- While these discussion points are 'old' , I want you to remember these when DF 2.0 is finally released and Aventurine fucks over the player base again (with a server wipe by new skill system/item "numbers" wtf that means) so you can accept it and get over it, as you say.

Bonus points- Aventurine is the publisher for Darkfall on the NA1 server (which makes the 'cant transfere due to publisher issues' problem way back in the day interesting to say the least)

AV's using the classic carrot-on-a-stick business practice.  In this analogy, the carrot is represented by AV's lies, and the jackass is represented by the paying consumer.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

...

There is a lot of PvE (hence ask the FPS crowd who will tell you there is TOO MUCH of it) and i doubt AV or anyone creating  a game will promise "everything".  The world is also not empty is just you don't stumble on critters on every step like in most MMORPG's which is a different and refreshing approach to the Genre. They promised monsters will have their own habitats and settlements and thats what they delivered.  Cheating occurs in every game and AV is one of those companies who took this seriously and cut every hacking down pretty fast. It is no coincidence that there is only 1 ! time a report of a flying boat as you say. It is also no coincidence the reports of runner outspeed mount or run under city walls and are faster then boats are now about 2 years old. Those things are almost non existant because of AV's measures against it. It was really impressive how such things got silenced pretty fast.

...

That could be a perception from someone reading up the planned feature list from alpha and not closely following development afterwards.  From my observation they delivered what they promised if you follow their development process and watch closely the announcements what will be not included duringthe  beta testing phase. They offered free transfer to US server for existing subscribers so what you talking about double charge ?  

...

 

IMO you belong to the people who during developement created their own version of  DF in their mind and can't accept any other real implementation. Living in a nice dream is better then any reality right ?  Unfortunately while developing a game  you need to undergo  compromises such of that performance is more important then placing things on the ground and clutter the landscape and bulk the server.

btw such a discussion is pretty old and remember me what has been discussed at launch to death already. Now 2,5  years later you should accept DF what it is and get over it. OP also said he had great fun with the game how it is for a big period of time.

Simple answer, cos I am very sick today, cannot stay up too long, just waiting on a pick up.

AV made a promise, pre alpha whatever, that is a promise.  If they plan to change it, they should change the list.  They did not, and as far as we are concerned, that is supposed to be the blueprint of the game to come.  If I did the same to my clients, I will be in chains now already.  Changing an implementation without notifiying clients amounts to business fraud.  Announcing a change makes it all the more acceptable, but AV never did just that.

They moved to charge people, they keep the list.  I for one will hold them responsible, for that list.  You think I am the only one who feel somewhat betrayed when we see what was actually delivered?  Or maybe you rethink why virtually the entire fan base vanish overnight?  You may love the game, but you cannot blame me for trusting an official web site.

I accept DF for what it is, and I do not hate the game.  I just cannot trust anymore a producer with such a track record.  I have no surprise with some supporters loving he game, but trusting AV again?  For another round of high promise --> slipping delivery without notifications --> and what next?  Would I be expecting a delivery that meets promises, or another DF1.0 fiasco.  Your view my view.

I already stated my view, I will no longer trust one such developer.  Not that I have nothing to play.  Skyrim is coming in 2 months.

I always find these type of threads somewhat silly.  If there is a free trial, give it a go.  You can then make up your own mind whether to sub to a game.  If there is no free trial then you have to look at more than a single post by someone who obviously has strong feelings about a game and really won't give you a balanced opinion one way or another.

DF is losing players like crazy. Me and a lot of people in my clan (LA eu) have gone inactive.

not quite sure what that is meant to convey..

The game for the individual can be fine, its all dependant on how much you want from it I think.. end of day I bet most of you spend more on weed than the sub a mnth :D

Enjoy it for what it is.. not much around like it is there, MO? gimme a break that has even more issues does it not?

I know alot have given up, as its been way to long without updates promised or what not, but again use it or loose it.. But if you feel you're sub is way to much for what you feel you are getting then move on yes..

Originally posted by wyldmagik

not quite sure what that is meant to convey..

The game for the individual can be fine, its all dependant on how much you want from it I think.. end of day I bet most of you spend more on weed than the sub a mnth :D

Enjoy it for what it is.. not much around like it is there, MO? gimme a break that has even more issues does it not?

I know alot have given up, as its been way to long without updates promised or what not, but again use it or loose it.. But if you feel you're sub is way to much for what you feel you are getting then move on yes..

I dont play DF but agree with your post. Personally, the only reason I wont play is the "no skillcap" . Why, oh why didnt they limit the number skill points?

That being said, DF has a fantastic world to explore- Just not the sandbox I wanna play in. Too PVP focused and no skillcap kill for me what could be a great game.

But DF is a unique experience and it actually works unlike mo , lol.

Originally posted by strangerdang

When you run your own gaming company you can decide when your employees get vacations.

 

Its cool though, youll have fun playing one of the many other unfinished and bug ridden sandboxes, then youll come back to darkfall because you just want fun combat and fun pve with your ffa full loot pvp..

Need sand to have a sandbox.  I see a pve based grind game w/ no skill caps and no sand in sight.  By all means enjoy the game but to call darkfall a sandbox is a insult to any sandbox that has ever existed(precu swg r.i.p..).

Originally posted by treysmooth

Need sand to have a sandbox.  I see a pve based grind game w/ no skill caps and no sand in sight.  By all means enjoy the game but to call darkfall a sandbox is a insult to any sandbox that has ever existed(precu swg r.i.p..).

You cant say that and then pick one of the best sandboxes at their best time.

Just only a NGE patch later and the big SWG has been sized and at any time i prefer DF over SWG in his appearence post Nov 2005.

That said me , me known for being a big supporter of DF and the company got very annoyed by the wipe discussion  and how the company handles it.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by treysmooth

Need sand to have a sandbox.  I see a pve based grind game w/ no skill caps and no sand in sight.  By all means enjoy the game but to call darkfall a sandbox is a insult to any sandbox that has ever existed(precu swg r.i.p..).

You cant say that and then pick one of the best sandboxes at their best time.

Just only a NGE patch later and the big SWG has been sized and at any time i prefer DF over SWG in his appearence post Nov 2005.

That said me , me known for being a big supporter of DF and the company got very annoyed by the wipe discussion  and how the company handles it.

 

Point stands I don't consider it a sandbox or I'd be playing it.

Originally posted by treysmooth

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by treysmooth

Need sand to have a sandbox.  I see a pve based grind game w/ no skill caps and no sand in sight.  By all means enjoy the game but to call darkfall a sandbox is a insult to any sandbox that has ever existed(precu swg r.i.p..).

You cant say that and then pick one of the best sandboxes at their best time.

Just only a NGE patch later and the big SWG has been sized and at any time i prefer DF over SWG in his appearence post Nov 2005.

That said me , me known for being a big supporter of DF and the company got very annoyed by the wipe discussion  and how the company handles it.

 

Point stands I don't consider it a sandbox or I'd be playing it.

A game cannot be called sandbox just by deliberately stripping every feature common to a "themepark".  Some of the features are actually good for most games.

Adding some raid bosses or some good quest arcs, or even a Bioware like story, does not necessarily make a "sandbox" bad, or pollute it, or dump it down.

It is stupid to box one's own imagination and acceptance of experimentation, based on empty hollow terms.  I do not care what sand or mud or stone box a developer claims its game to be.  I look at the actual features, actual implementation, and try it out if I feel interested.

DF is nothing, sandbox or whatever, that is worth trying out, that is my verdict so far.  It has a lot of weakness, glaring ones, and is managed by a crook developer.  Just because it does not care to implement some of the WoW features does not make it great, it just means it lacks one set of features and does not have anything worthwhile in compensation.  FFA PvP full loot, is all it has, and on that alone, it is not worth its place as a sub game in my view.

SWG in its early days is a game worthy of every dollar it charges in its days.  This I agree without reservation.