Some people say DF is too PvP Focused. Well what do you mean? How should PvE be improved while not hampering he PvP?

What do they mean? Well, the only thing you really do in the game is pvp or grind to get gold to pvp.

You see, everyone can be everything, including any crafting profession. So theres no reason for someone to be a blacksmith in the world of agon. Because everyone is already a blacksmith and can make there own stuff.

You can't be a merchant in the world of agon, because even a 3 man clan can be 100% self sufficient and have infinite resources. There is no reason to trade or be a trader like in eve online for example, becuase there is global banking, and portals to everywhere. And also, resources aren't regional.

And as to pve. Well all the pve is extremely easy. Theres only a few mobs in the game that can't be soloed or duoed.  And there is no reason to kill them besides to get mats/gold for pvp. Which is fine, because it's meant to be a pvp game instead of a pvmonster game.

But to recap.The game is bottlenecked into pvp only because it's the only thing you can specialize in so to speak.

-You can't really specialize in trading.

-You can't really be a specialized crafter

-You can't be a specialized pirate because no one uses boats besides for rare occasions. And ship combat is broken.

-You can't be a specialzed anything, because everyone is everything.  All you cna really do is pvp, or grind out pve mats to pvp. And the mobs drop pretty much anything you would ever need quickly and in large quanities.

Players claiming that DarkFall is too PvP-focused are simply wrong. It is no more than an "end-game", while players grind continously in PvE to shape up their skills, or grind materials or gold to rank more skills. Constant PvP is mostly reserved to the well-established characters (veterans) who only need to grind gold by that point. Still, for the average player, Darkfall would be 90% PvE 10% PvP, while Veterans would be closer to 40% PvE 60% PvP or the other way around depending area (60% PvE, 40% PvP).

PvE plays far too much of an important role in DarkFall to claim that Darkfall is too PvP-focused.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Players claiming that DarkFall is too PvP-focused are simply wrong. It is no more than an "end-game", while players grind continously in PvE to shape up their skills, or grind materials or gold to rank more skills. Constant PvP is mostly reserved to the well-established characters (veterans) who only need to grind gold by that point. Still, for the average player, Darkfall would be 90% PvE 10% PvP, while Veterans would be closer to 40% PvE 60% PvP or the other way around depending area (60% PvE, 40% PvP).

PvE plays far too much of an important role in DarkFall to claim that Darkfall is too PvP-focused.

I hate to be one of these people...but

focus-–noun

Originally posted by jadedlevir

 

Pve isn't only killing monsters. It's also crafting, trading, ect. And the focus of the entire game is to pvp, despite being a "sandbox". You spend a vast majority of your time grinding pve aspects, but there is zero focus on anything except pvp.  People that complain about too much pvp focus are probably doing so because the lack of sandbox tools.

 

It would be a different story if you could become a specialized merchant  with a large cargo ship, and your focus is to build up a merchant fleet that monopolizes agon. The focus of your trading - despite essentially supplyng pvpers- is more large scale econmics, trading, and pve aspects. Or if your focus was to pvp in order to become a bodyguard to the traveling crafters and traders roaming the world if there was regional resources,local banking, and no portals.

I know full well that PvE means more than simply killing monsters, but the economy in DarkFall is pretty much pointless so trading and everything else that comes with it is pointless. Crafting and Harvesting is simply used by players to be self-sufficient and a way to raise their stats. When I say PvE in Darkfall, I only mean monsters, because that's all there is to do in the end.

And what I meant by saying that DarkFall is far from being too PvP-focused, is that on paper, DarkFall is indeed a PvP-focused game, but the reality is otherwise. There is very little PvP until you've reached that "end-game", and until then, you are strictly restricted to PvE. For that reason, DarkFall is not too "PvP-focused".

Dynamic mob spawns, depending on team size different strength and numbers of mobs on a  mission/quest.

Boss mobs that could be triggered by special conditions  (Spawn location recieve a lot of hunting, team is killing mobs on the spawn too fast etc.) 

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

 There is very little PvP until you've reached that "end-game", and until then, you are strictly restricted to PvE. For that reason, DarkFall is not too "PvP-focused".

This is true, and this is also why I call Darkfall a full-loot pve mmo. You have to pve for a long time untill you can take part in the fun. The other flaw is that all the high level players can kill you for a year while you try to level your char. There is also no skillcap what so ever, and everyone becomes a clone of eachother after a while. The only thing that seperates the characters is how much time you can kill NPCs or how good your macros are.

This is why some of us look forward to DF2.

Ohh, and some of us like pvp. Why would anyone whine over pvp in Darkfall when they got a hundred pve mmos?

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by jadedlevir

 

Pve isn't only killing monsters. It's also crafting, trading, ect. And the focus of the entire game is to pvp, despite being a "sandbox". You spend a vast majority of your time grinding pve aspects, but there is zero focus on anything except pvp.  People that complain about too much pvp focus are probably doing so because the lack of sandbox tools.

 

It would be a different story if you could become a specialized merchant  with a large cargo ship, and your focus is to build up a merchant fleet that monopolizes agon. The focus of your trading - despite essentially supplyng pvpers- is more large scale econmics, trading, and pve aspects. Or if your focus was to pvp in order to become a bodyguard to the traveling crafters and traders roaming the world if there was regional resources,local banking, and no portals.

I know full well that PvE means more than simply killing monsters, but the economy in DarkFall is pretty much pointless so trading and everything else that comes with it is pointless. Crafting and Harvesting is simply used by players to be self-sufficient and a way to raise their stats. When I say PvE in Darkfall, I only mean monsters, because that's all there is to do in the end.

And what I meant by saying that DarkFall is far from being too PvP-focused, is that on paper, DarkFall is indeed a PvP-focused game, but the reality is otherwise. There is very little PvP until you've reached that "end-game", and until then, you are strictly restricted to PvE. For that reason, DarkFall is not too "PvP-focused".

Yes, I understand what your saying. And honestly I think this is just going to become a semantics thing. But the op asked why some ppl thought darkfall is too pvp focused. To me, that means that the focus of the game is pvp. As in, you craft  to pvp, trade to pvp, grind to pvp, harvest to pvp...and pvp to pvp.
 You don't pve in order to pve. You don't try to become a grandmaster crafter that people rely, or a savvy merchant that monpolizes stuff, or *insert sandbox activity*.

I understand what your saying, and agree with you, a huge majority of the gameplay is pve grinding. But that is also another inherit problem with the whole thing... 90%+ of your time is pve grinding, but your focus is to eventually pvp.

 I'm just seeing "focus" as in the purpose to, or eventual goal, and your reffering to it as the focus, or main activity of.

@The guy above me. Umm, why would people want there to be other goals in a "sandbox" besides pvp? That seems kind of self-explanatory.

By "too PvP focused" most people mean it's a FFA PvP anywhere full loot game. That can't be changed without "hampering PvP." There being too much PvE grind is a separate issue having little to do with PvP.

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

 There is very little PvP until you've reached that "end-game", and until then, you are strictly restricted to PvE. For that reason, DarkFall is not too "PvP-focused".

This is true, and this is also why I call Darkfall a full-loot pve mmo. You have to pve for a long time untill you can take part in the fun. The other flaw is that all the high level players can kill you for a year while you try to level your char. There is also no skillcap what so ever, and everyone becomes a clone of eachother after a while. The only thing that seperates the characters is how much time you can kill NPCs or how good your macros are.

 

This is why some of us look forward to DF2.

 

Ohh, and some of us like pvp. Why would anyone whine over pvp in Darkfall when they got a hundred pve mmos?

Problem is people abuse gamemechanics if you let everything happen through PvP.

Proof, the "bloodwalls". Skill gain was equally possible through PvE or PvP and what did players do ? 

Then and for the thousands time, no "you not have to". Is just you want to take the quickiest and ASAP way to reach "max level".  - Which is a foul mindset for a MMORPG by itself-

There is a skill cap that is 100 for every skill / spell. You just don't want to invest time to get any skill to that level like others did. (not that you need every skill at 100 but thats another story)

So far about those misconceptions about DF of yours.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Then and for the thousands time, no "you not have to". Is just you want to take the quickiest and ASAP way to reach "max level".  - Which is a foul mindset for a MMORPG by itself-

There is a skill cap that is 100 for every skill / spell. You just don't want to invest time to get any skill to that level like others did. (not that you need every skill at 100 but thats another story)

So far about those misconceptions about DF of yours.

 I`m an old school mmo player and it`s hard for you PVE players to grasp what we are saying.

Again, role-playing game doesn`t mean left-clicking on stupid NPC for infinity, it means playing a role in a game. The role we play in Darkfall is a soldier. None of us pvpers wants to have a level advantage over our enemy, only a pve player feel good when he can kill a low level player. But we don`t want to have an inferior level, so that is why we grind like madmen. Sadly the grind in Darkfall was almost without end so 99% of the pvpers left. And please, I don`t need a former SWG player to tell me I don`t really need the same level as he does. How pathetic doesn`t that sound.

"I`m a level 60  and you are a level 2. I rock in pvp and you suck, because I have the time to kill stupid NPCs."......PVE players.

Btw, Darkfall isn`t a RPG, because we doesn`t have any roles. We are all a superclone of everything. Darkfall is a MMOPG, Micro Multiplayer Online Playing Grind. Now go back into the game and have fun with your 200 active players.

Edit. I mixed  two pve mmos

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Problem is people abuse gamemechanics if you let everything happen through PvP.

Proof, the "bloodwalls". Skill gain was equally possible through PvE or PvP and what did players do ? 

Then and for the thousands time, no "you not have to". Is just you want to take the quickiest and ASAP way to reach "max level".  - Which is a foul mindset for a MMORPG by itself-

There is a skill cap that is 100 for every skill / spell. You just don't want to invest time to get any skill to that level like others did. (not that you need every skill at 100 but thats another story)

So far about those misconceptions about DF of yours.

People indeed abuse game mechanics. Aventurine did the mistake on focusing only on hackers and slowly fixing areas that could be exploited rather than punishing the exploiters (Acid Pool for exemple).

It's also in the PvPers mindset to reach the competitive level as soon as possible, because they want PvP and PvP is only accessible to those who've reached that point. So it's a given that players will grind, and even go as far as to exploit game mechanics to gain that speed edge that will help them reach the competitive "level" sooner.

We play to PvP, not PvE all day long until we can finally PvP. What doesn't help DarkFall and PvP players either, is the overall game balance. The gap between new players and veterans is far too big which forces players to heavily grind and are more likely to exploit to reach that point. If for exemple, Skills were to follow a system of diminishing return like HP does now, new players would be able to get the most out of their skills early on and deal respectable damage, while veterans would have that 5-10 damage points advantage. But that advantage doesn't entirely imbalance the game, unlike currently where a new player will only deal around 10-15 while the veteran will hit 40-60. But if skills were to follow a system of diminishing returns on the damage, there would not have been any needs to reduce the "grind" aside from the June/July 2009 patch. Player Skills would be much more relevant early on, and the need to grind irrelevant, provided that Bunnyhopping was removed, and that soft caps like the Armor System or Prestige Classes are introduced.