Darkfall forum link

The point I want to make with this is an answer to his question "how much time must pass before it's no longer appealing to anybody new to join the re-launched game again?".  One month.  Then you will have the veteran paradox all over again.

Wipe or no wipe, it does not matter.  However honor matters above all.  Would it be a wise company decision to give a middle finger to the people who have stayed with them and helped pay for this "new game" expansion?  What do you think?

WOW wipes once a year after a big expansion so why can DF not do the same?   

However, my opinion is still that I need to actually see the game changes to make an apporpriate decision about what would be better for DF.   We all know their game mechanics are only loosely based upon what they state.

Lets say you apply this to another game....say Eve for example.   If CCP told the player base that with the newly added content they were going to wipe the server and relaunch so the new players coming into the game for the first time could compete,  how would they respond?

I think it would not go over very well,  and would have the potential to kill the game faster than any monocle could.

The thing is they know they're going down... this is their last chance to do it right... By wiping they irk people who would protest against but at the same time it's their only chance of accumulating a respectable playerbase.  I will actually go play again if they wipe... I also have a guild and many of them would consider trying out DFO again if they wipe the server.

Originally posted by thinktank001

WOW wipes once a year after a big expansion so why can DF not do the same?   

Do they? First time I hear that one...

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by thinktank001

WOW wipes once a year after a big expansion so why can DF not do the same?   

Do they? First time I hear that one...

No they don't...just didn't bother to correct him/her.

On topic:  It's a nitch game and always will be.  And being a nitch game they need to cater to the vets.

Originally posted by Tailz2k7

The thing is they know they're going down... this is their last chance to do it right... By wiping they irk people who would protest against but at the same time it's their only chance of accumulating a respectable playerbase.  I will actually go play again if they wipe... I also have a guild and many of them would consider trying out DFO again if they wipe the server.

This. It sucks for veterans but it will get people to play. However, I still want to see a skill cap. A few FoTM specs is better than one spec period.

WIPE IT HARD!!!!! If you leave cuz of the wipe go play wow...obviously u aint very dedicated to the game if you leave cuz u have to start over...childish.

Originally posted by Gwing

WIPE IT HARD!!!!! If you leave cuz of the wipe go play wow...obviously u aint very dedicated to the game if you leave cuz u have to start over...childish.

I'm pretty sure thats not what the developer would like to have happen.  It's not like DF has a huge pop to begin with, and now you want players to leave.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

...Would it be a wise company decision to give a middle finger to the people who have stayed with them and helped pay for this "new game" expansion?...

It would not be wise if the company was pissing off half its playerbase in the process. The wise thing to do would be to come up with a better solution (not that there is always a better or even a good solution). This being video game world...I bet there is a better solution. 

Oh and there's only a "logical flaw in EVERY pro wipe argument" if every pro wipe argument is based on the assertion that more players will flock to the game after relauch. There is a flaw in the use of the word logical and every in that sentence. 

Originally posted by Gwing

WIPE IT HARD!!!!! If you leave cuz of the wipe go play wow...obviously u aint very dedicated to the game if you leave cuz u have to start over...childish.

I'd argue the opposite.

Players who've played for 2 years are already very dedicated as they've stayed with DarkFall despite all it's hardship. A wipe at this point would be like a slap in the face followed with a "We don't care about how dedicated you are, screw you or pay more money".

Asking for a wipe, would be the opposite. A lack of dedication, a mean for newer players to have a chance to experience the game without having to spend or dedicated as much time, even if only for a brief period of time. Because, 3 months later, Veterans will still have the advantage. So, will you ask for another wipe 3 months later?

A wipe isn't necessary. The game is so bare-bones as it is, that all they need to do is just flesh it out. Huge power gap between new players and vets? Add stuff in the middle that allows players to be competitive. If the majority of players are only useing two different armors, make the other ones useful in some form too.

Why does each sword at any given tier have the same stats as the other ones from that tier? What ever happened to having to choose between stats? Why do weapons get stronger and stronger but have no drawbacks other than requiring easy to obtain materials? Why is everyone a tank-mage-archer? Why don't I have to choose what role I want to perform before I leave town? Why is there no variation?

it needs thwe wipe to welcome new ppl to the world again...no one new comes to this game because of the the elietst pigs! They start a new guy play for 2 hrs then get ganked by a Eliet fuck up out side of the Noob zone and THAT my friend is a hardcore spirit crusher...happend to me...BUT i fought on and tryed again and it kept happening...thus is why i no longer play....seems liek the elietest ppl have nothign better to do in this game than to kill new players at teh noob zone cities...just too scared to fight agains ppl there own lvl.

IM PRO WIPE BECAUSE OF THIS! THQANK GOD ITS HAPPENING AND NO ONE HAS A SAY IN IT!

A nice new start would be great would solve this issue for a while untill the hardcore ppl get up there again n start camping....its a great game best i ever played i want to go back i had so much fun in it but i cant handle the fact that i grind for 5hrs get all my hard earned armor and swords then get ganked by a HIGH ELIET JErK with uber magic skills....

and they wonder why no one plays this game...its the community not the game

Originally posted by Gwing

it needs thwe wipe to welcome new ppl to the world again...no one new comes to this game because of the the elietst pigs! They start a new guy play for 2 hrs then get ganked by a Eliet fuck up out side of the Noob zone and THAT my friend is a hardcore spirit crusher...happend to me...BUT i fought on and tryed again and it kept happening...thus is why i no longer play....seems liek the elietest ppl have nothign better to do in this game than to kill new players at teh noob zone cities...just too scared to fight agains ppl there own lvl.

 

IM PRO WIPE BECAUSE OF THIS! THQANK GOD ITS HAPPENING AND NO ONE HAS A SAY IN IT!

Ah, so you're a carebear talking about "dedication" when you left DarkFall shortly after getting PK'ed a few times? You need a Server Wipe so that you can start over with everyone else and be on the same level while you grind up all your skills so that, in 3 months time, you will be the one to crush new players like you were being crushed when you joined?

Server Wipe will not fix DarkFall. It will attract new players just like every new expansion does, but DarkFall has a terrible new player retention rate because the game is flawed and that has little to do with new players being PK'ed early on. The reality is that, 3-5 months later, the problems will appear once again. Veterans will be crushing new players, and these new players will leave, unable to play without getting constantly PK'ed. When that happen? Will you ask for another Server Wipe? Will you actually suggest ways to improve DarkFall so that players can finally enjoy and stick to DarkFall, or would you rather replace them temporarily with every wipe?

ya actually i would suggest new ways to improve darkfall and you would be wrong about me PKing noobs...in fact i would guard the starting city of my race...sumone or sumthign needs to put these vets in line...they have far too much power and thus ruining the game for new players...

seen a char in the new city was standing in all his gear INSIDE the city and a eliet person ran in the city while the towers were shooting him ganked the guy and took his stuff then ran out..

if that dosnt say flawed then i dont know what does....

ALSO i been playing WoW for 6 years...and im pro wipe on that game even though i have 2 acounts one maxed with 85's....so dont lecture me with dedication pesent.

Originally posted by Gwing

ya actually i would suggest new ways to improve darkfall and you would be wrong about me PKing noobs...in fact i would guard the starting city of my race...sumone or sumthign needs to put these vets in line...they have far too much power and thus ruining the game for new players...

 

seen a char in the new city was standing in all his gear INSIDE the city and a eliet person ran in the city while the towers were shooting him ganked the guy and took his stuff then ran out..

if that dosnt say flawed then i dont know what does....

Guarding NPC Cities isn't currently viable for various reasons (flawed alignement system mostly, lack of purpose too).

NPC Cities were also never intended to be 100% safe zones, unless the player exploited the blue block/blue healer tactic, it's a perfectly legal possibility. Although re-reading the part about "new city", I wonder if you're referring to Clan NEW's Player City, in which case Player Cities are hardly safe in the first place, and for good reasons (they're meant to be attacked and siege-able).

What DarkFall needs is to balance the gap between New Players and Veterans, only then will they be able to retain new players. Until then, new players are both unable to fight back and unable to escape, might as well just stay still and wait. A wipe won't help this.

Ganking is not a huge issue. Anyone who has played DF for a good amount of time can attest that you can find spots to not get ganked. An easy solution is perhaps leaving humanlands. Elflands, for me anyway, is a pretty quiet place. I see blues quite a bit, but I can't even recall if a red ever ganked me since.

well they could create the same thing as a wipe if for the new players they create a new server.

That way the vets keep what they already have and new players have a server where everyones on the same level as them at least for a little while.  If thats the only reason the devs think they arn't keeping new players it's the most obvious and simplest solution I can think of without resorting to a wipe which would end up being pretty close to an NGE* rivaling moment from the sounds of it.

*In the sence of your pissing off people who are already customers to try and get people who arn't your customers

Originally posted by stayontarget

Lets say you apply this to another game....say Eve for example.   If CCP told the player base that with the newly added content they were going to wipe the server and relaunch so the new players coming into the game for the first time could compete,  how would they respond?

I think it would not go over very well,  and would have the potential to kill the game faster than any monocle could.

Where did AV say that DF was considering a wipe to let new players compete?    O wait they didn't.   

" There were concerns about wipes: We’ve considered wipes on various levels, however these are important decisions because while this is like a new game, it’s still the continuation of the current one. Also, the way things will work in the new version, it would not be as necessary to wipe, but wiping would also not be as drastic as it would be in the current version. This is a topic we’ll open up for discussion after we’ve given you more information on the new version of the game, so you can understand all the parameters involved. "
 

Many developers reset parts of their game if they make huge changes to it, and according to Tacos DF 2.0 is a whole new beast.  

A wipe will change things temporarily.  A new server would change things temporarily.  The problem is the game design itself.  It does not attract new players because it is ugly.  Mind you, better looking than MO.. however the game design should have been closer to MO if it wanted to draw people in.  The biggest flaw here is that they decided that DF should be a FFA PvP, full loot game with a 90% focus on PvP and a 10% focus on things other than PvP.  Ultima Online was the only real high fantasy sandbox that has every been successful and it had very little to do with PvP.  MO has the right idea, but they made their game look like EQ1.  Until these developers decide that they need to give a little to get a little, there will never be another successful sandbox like this.  ArchAge is an eastern market game and will never gain enough influence in the west, so that doesn't count.. and it's not released yet.  In order to bring in new sheep, there need to be many options available for them.  There aren't.  There are too many wolves and eventually those sheep all get slaughtered.  Now it's wolves killing wolves, and when a new sheep appears..there are 20 wolves to kill that one.  You gain subscriptions in a game like this by making the casual sandbox player happy.  You don't do that by catering to the elite few that want nothing more than to kill their own game by crushing everything once they've gotten the edge.

It's ironic though.  AV now cannot change the design, because if they do.. a large chunk of the faithful will leave because they are already strong.  On the other hand, potential new players want change.  AV is stuck  So they are destined to make small additions to the game in order to keep enough subscriptions to stay alive.  They made their bed, they're just going to have to sleep in it. 

I can sit here and explain what they should have done, but it doesn't matter.  It is what it is.  It's going to be a long, slow death.