Darkfall Forum » General Discussion » Expansion and North American Launch delayed slightly - no new info

Originally posted by Splinki

I personally think its hysterical that they pushed back the date till the 13th, which is when MO preorders. :P

Hysterical? More like ironic since MO is traveling down a similar path as DF.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Indirectly, yes.

I will try to explain it as simple as I can :

Publisher invests money;
Developer uses money to hire more programmers or to keep current programmers;
Because there are more programmers on staff (or even if no programmer is fired), then that means bugs get fixed faster, new content gets created faster, stability  improves, etc etc;

So, good publisher = more money = better game

But, there are some negative sides too. If you have an outside publisher, depending on your contract, they may have some say in the development of your game (directly or indirectly), or you may be strictly bound to a certain release date (reason why so many games released unfinished), or it may have some other ways for them to influence the development process of the game.

But, generally speaking, having a good publisher  is better then not having it, especially for a small company like AV and especially since it has such a bad track history.

"more money = better game"

means that WoW and EQ2 are the best games around and I am sure that is true for the majority but for me I am not impressed with what "more money" has done in this industry.

So no, sorry I do not agree with the basic forumla that more money = better game.

Not saying this for sure but if Billzard took over the game I would be very worried.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Indirectly, yes.

I will try to explain it as simple as I can :

Publisher invests money;
Developer uses money to hire more programmers or to keep current programmers;
Because there are more programmers on staff (or even if no programmer is fired), then that means bugs get fixed faster, new content gets created faster, stability  improves, etc etc;

So, good publisher = more money = better game

But, there are some negative sides too. If you have an outside publisher, depending on your contract, they may have some say in the development of your game (directly or indirectly), or you may be strictly bound to a certain release date (reason why so many games released unfinished), or it may have some other ways for them to influence the development process of the game.

But, generally speaking, having a good publisher  is better then not having it, especially for a small company like AV and especially since it has such a bad track history.

 

"more money = better game"

means that WoW and EQ2 are the best games around and I am sure that is true for the majority but for me I am not impressed with what "more money" has done in this industry.

So no, sorry I do not agree with the basic forumla that more money = better game.

Not saying this for sure but if Billzard took over the game I would be very worried.

More money generally just means that they are NOT going for  a "niche" game.
 

A "niche" game will never be mainstream or attract a high population of players.  That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But, the difference that a big-name publishing company could bring to DarkFall is some professionalism.  They could use that in spades! 

But, we all know by now that DarkFall is NOT being published by a big-name in NA.  How do I know this?  The lack of advertising and announcement of the NA server launch.  IF it was being handled by a big-name publisher... we would have heard of it well before now.

So, that leaves a no-name publisher or Aventurine self-publishing.  Either way... fans of DarkFall should expect for the NA server to go down the exact same path as EU-1.  For some, that will be fine.  For others... that is the LAST thing they wanted. 

Originally posted by xzyax

More money generally just means that they are NOT going for  a "niche" game.
 

A "niche" game will never be mainstream or attract a high population of players.  That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But, the difference that a big-name publishing company could bring to DarkFall is some professionalism.  They could use that in spades! 

 

But, we all know by know that DarkFall is NOT being published by a big-name in NA.  How do I know this?  The lack of advertising and announcement of the NA server launch.  IF it was being handled by a big-name publisher... we would have heard of it well before now.

So, that leaves a no-name publisher or Aventurine self-publishing.  Either way... fans of DarkFall should expect for the NA server to go down the exact same path as EU-1.  For some, that will be fine.  For others... that is the LAST thing they wanted. 

basically what you are saying is that only large companies can make good games and small developers can not ever.

Either one is paid to say that or they suffer from the Nike Syndrome.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by xzyax

More money generally just means that they are NOT going for  a "niche" game.
 

A "niche" game will never be mainstream or attract a high population of players.  That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But, the difference that a big-name publishing company could bring to DarkFall is some professionalism.  They could use that in spades! 

 

But, we all know by know that DarkFall is NOT being published by a big-name in NA.  How do I know this?  The lack of advertising and announcement of the NA server launch.  IF it was being handled by a big-name publisher... we would have heard of it well before now.

So, that leaves a no-name publisher or Aventurine self-publishing.  Either way... fans of DarkFall should expect for the NA server to go down the exact same path as EU-1.  For some, that will be fine.  For others... that is the LAST thing they wanted. 

 

basically what you are saying is that only large companies can make good games and small developers can not ever.

Either one is paid to say that or they suffer from the Nike Syndrome.

Umm... NO!
 

Please point out where I said anything remotely resembling:

"only large companies can make good games and small developers can not ever."

Really, please point it out. 

I'll wait.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by xzyax

More money generally just means that they are NOT going for  a "niche" game.
 

A "niche" game will never be mainstream or attract a high population of players.  That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But, the difference that a big-name publishing company could bring to DarkFall is some professionalism.  They could use that in spades! 

 

But, we all know by know that DarkFall is NOT being published by a big-name in NA.  How do I know this?  The lack of advertising and announcement of the NA server launch.  IF it was being handled by a big-name publisher... we would have heard of it well before now.

So, that leaves a no-name publisher or Aventurine self-publishing.  Either way... fans of DarkFall should expect for the NA server to go down the exact same path as EU-1.  For some, that will be fine.  For others... that is the LAST thing they wanted. 

 

basically what you are saying is that only large companies can make good games and small developers can not ever.

Either one is paid to say that or they suffer from the Nike Syndrome.

No, only big companies can make popular games that appeal to many, small devlopers will make niche games that appeal to far fewer.

Originally posted by shukes33

Not just an expansion but a FREE expansion, so you tell me now what other games release an expansion for free? with the exception of VG..which was also content that was missing from release.

City of Heroes/Villains.

Sure, the original CoV was a paid expansion to the original game, but the devs have added tons of free content to the game since then that most companies would charge for.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by xzyax

More money generally just means that they are NOT going for  a "niche" game.
 

A "niche" game will never be mainstream or attract a high population of players.  That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing.  But, the difference that a big-name publishing company could bring to DarkFall is some professionalism.  They could use that in spades! 

 

But, we all know by know that DarkFall is NOT being published by a big-name in NA.  How do I know this?  The lack of advertising and announcement of the NA server launch.  IF it was being handled by a big-name publisher... we would have heard of it well before now.

So, that leaves a no-name publisher or Aventurine self-publishing.  Either way... fans of DarkFall should expect for the NA server to go down the exact same path as EU-1.  For some, that will be fine.  For others... that is the LAST thing they wanted. 

 

basically what you are saying is that only large companies can make good games and small developers can not ever.

Either one is paid to say that or they suffer from the Nike Syndrome.

 

No, only big companies can make popular games that appeal to many, small devlopers will make niche games that appeal to far fewer.

 

Kyleran got it right.

"Niche" does not have to equal bad.

In DarkFall's case it did... but that isn't because they were going for a "niche" market.  It was bad because they released it untested and unfinished.

Perhaps SEANMCAD missed the sentence where I stated:

"That in itself ins't necessarily a bad thing."

More resources do not make a game great. However, more resources increase dramatically the chances the game will be at least acceptable and that you'll have more support and updates. That's just common sense.

Does anyone doubt that if AV had deeper pockets updates would roll faster, decent marketing would be done, more than a single server would be present at opening, etc? And I'm not talking about a truckload of money, but just moderate resources for a game that intends to be global and have massive battles.

so we all agree then that a small publishing firm does not guartee failure for DarkfFall..

correct?

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by shukes33

Not just an expansion but a FREE expansion, so you tell me now what other games release an expansion for free? with the exception of VG..which was also content that was missing from release.

City of Heroes/Villains.

Sure, the original CoV was a paid expansion to the original game, but the devs have added tons of free content to the game since then that most companies would charge for.

Turbine with LoTRO also releases a lot of content for free.  Whole new areas are added.  Player housing was added in a free update.  Reputation system as well. 

Anyway, there are other companies that have released Expansion-sized updates for free.  The question is will this coming update for DarkFall be the size of an expansion... or just a bit bigger patch?

They've been skipping their normal patch routine for quite some time now... so it needs to be a home-run for the players to even consider sticking with them for a few more months.

I guees we'll soon find out.  Unless it's delayed again. 

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

so we all agree then that a small publishing firm does not guartee failure for DarkfFall..

correct?

I don't believe I ever stated that was an issue... did I?

I did state that DarkFall and Aventurine is in deperate need of some good publicity and professionalism.  A well-known publishing firm would help them towards that goal.

A small publishing firm is another unknown to their player-base.  DarkFall and Aventurine have shown that they don't do very well with unknowns.  (Current NA server and transfer debacle as lastest example). 

Originally posted by xzyax

 

I don't believe I ever stated that was an issue... did I?

 

I did state that DarkFall and Aventurine is in deperate need of some good publicity and professionalism.  A well-known publishing firm would help them towards that goal.

A small publishing firm is another unknown to their player-base.  DarkFall and Aventurine have shown that they don't do very well with unknowns.  (Current NA server and transfer debacle as lastest example). 

maybe it was someone else I am sorry if it wasnt you.

Someone said (and I am parapharsing) that becuase we havent seen advertising then it means the publisher is small and we can be assured NA will suffer the same fate and EU-1 (assuming the context is that EU-1 is a problem).

Originally posted by skeaser

Originally posted by Neopsych

Eve does free expansions as does LOTRO?...just saying

 

Pretty sure Mines of Moria was NOT free. Just saying.

Actually it kinda depends on when you bought it.

If you waited until recently they had a deal going where you could buy the MoM game (which includes the entire SoA first volume as well) for $9.99 (included a free month as well) and then only $9.99 per month sub. as well.

Now matter how a person tries to spin it... that is a great deal for an MMO.  Perhaps not entirely free... but with the free month included... very nearly so.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by xzyax

 

I don't believe I ever stated that was an issue... did I?

 

I did state that DarkFall and Aventurine is in deperate need of some good publicity and professionalism.  A well-known publishing firm would help them towards that goal.

A small publishing firm is another unknown to their player-base.  DarkFall and Aventurine have shown that they don't do very well with unknowns.  (Current NA server and transfer debacle as lastest example). 

 

maybe it was someone else I am sorry if it wasnt you.

Someone said (and I am parapharsing) that becuase we havent seen advertising then it means the publisher is small and we can be assured NA will suffer the same fate and EU-1 (assuming the context is that EU-1 is a problem).

 

I did state something similar to what you paraphrased there.
 

I do believe that to be the case.

I did not state that a small publisher would mean certain failure for DarkFall. 

I do believe though that with a small publisher their NA launch will fair no better than the EU-1 launch.

So, if you are happy with how the EU-1 launch went.  No worries for you.

On the other hand, if you were displeased with how the EU-1 launch went and were hoping for something better for the NA launch... then yeah... I'd be very worried. 

Linege 2 also does free expansions.

Originally posted by xzyax

I did state something similar to what you paraphrased there.
 

I do believe that to be the case.

 

I did not state that a small publisher would mean certain failure for DarkFall. 

 

I do believe though that with a small publisher their NA launch will fair no better than the EU-1 launch.

So, if you are happy with how the EU-1 launch went.  No worries for you.

On the other hand, if you were displeased with how the EU-1 launch went and were hoping for something better for the NA launch... then yeah... I'd be very worried. 

 Do you feel that how EU-1 was handled will destroy Darkfall?

and yeah, its fine with me the launch and all. I know this sounds like a re-hash but its important to me to make myself clear. I do not consider the luanch of a game, the game. So the game is a good game as far as I am concerned and when I got on board at that point the "launch" aspects of the server it self was also not all that bad although getting the actual game was a pain but I understand why it was done that way specificaly

Originally posted by shukes33

 

Not just an expansion but a FREE expansion, so you tell me now what other games release an expansion for free? with the exception of VG..which was also content that was missing from release.

Dont you think that we are all guilty of being a little too prodantic? you call it tomato i call it Tomato kind of thing?

And we all read the notes didn't we, when he was explaining that they prefer to call it an expansion because it is so large! but were all adults here and realise that it is still technically just another patch dont we :) or do we? ok i am speaking for myself here and can't judge others.

The thing with this so called free expansion as Tasos has claimed and in the same context you are using Vanguard. It is probably just implementing what was missing at release, except for the village system.  So instead of having an expansion, you have a large patch with a little added content.

Now I know a few other games that give free expansions, they may call them added content, but isn't that the same thing? To me it is. EQ2 every couple of months gives basically a free expansion. They call it content updates if I remember correctly. For example EQ2 added the City of Nariak, a new starting zone fo level 1-20 and a new race for free. That is just one example.COH/COV has them also. Just look at the latest releases from their forums. DIdn't Warhammer just add a new expansion also for free? Plus others.

So even though you may think that Aventurine is the only ones to offer a free expansion, they are not. The biggest thing is that every other game when putting out an expansion offers the information a lot earlier than 1 day before release. For example to EQ2 again sometine this fall they are adding a new starting city, more dungeons, and other stuff I just don't remember. The thing is we know about this at least 3 months in advance.

I commend you for sticking up for Darkfall. I know you enjoy the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

Originally posted by Otiro

The thing with this so called free expansion as Tasos has claimed and in the same context you are using Vanguard. Is it, is probably just implementing what was missing at release, except for the village system.  So instead of having an expansion, you have a large patch with a little added content.

Now I know a few other games that give free expansions, they may call them added content, but isn't that the same thing? To me it is. EQ2 every couple of months gives basically a free expansion. They call it content updates if I remember correctly. For example EQ2 added the City of Nariak, a new starting zone fo level 1-20 and a new race for free. That is just one example.COH/COV has them also. Just look at the latest releases from their forums. DIdn't Warhammer just add a new expansion also for free? Plus others.

So even though you may think that Aventurine is the only ones to offer a free expansion, they are not. The biggest thing is that every other game when putting out an expansion offers the information a lot earlier than 1 day before release. For example to EQ2 again sometine this fall they are adding a new starting city, more dungeons, and other stuff I just don't remember. The thing is we know about this at least 3 months in advance.

I commend you for sticking up for Darkfall. I know you enjoy the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

I agree with just about everything you said here.

Thing is the content that is coming up is the same no matter if you call it expansion, patch and dishwasher and that content is free.

So if you want to not play a game becuase some developer calls the content something you dont agree with more power to you. I think most of the players who enjoy the game very honestly dont worry about stuff like that.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Otiro

The thing with this so called free expansion as Tasos has claimed and in the same context you are using Vanguard. Is it, is probably just implementing what was missing at release, except for the village system.  So instead of having an expansion, you have a large patch with a little added content.

Now I know a few other games that give free expansions, they may call them added content, but isn't that the same thing? To me it is. EQ2 every couple of months gives basically a free expansion. They call it content updates if I remember correctly. For example EQ2 added the City of Nariak, a new starting zone fo level 1-20 and a new race for free. That is just one example.COH/COV has them also. Just look at the latest releases from their forums. DIdn't Warhammer just add a new expansion also for free? Plus others.

So even though you may think that Aventurine is the only ones to offer a free expansion, they are not. The biggest thing is that every other game when putting out an expansion offers the information a lot earlier than 1 day before release. For example to EQ2 again sometine this fall they are adding a new starting city, more dungeons, and other stuff I just don't remember. The thing is we know about this at least 3 months in advance.

I commend you for sticking up for Darkfall. I know you enjoy the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

 

I agree with just about everything you said here.

Thing is the content that is coming up is the same no matter if you call it expansion, patch and dishwasher and that content is free.

So if you want to not play a game becuase some developer calls the content something you dont agree with more power to you. I think most of the players who enjoy the game very honestly dont worry about stuff like that.

Nice to see you agree with something. However I never said anything about not wanting to play a game based on what they called expansions per say. All I was doing was clarifying for Shukes33 that there are other games that also release free content. So it is nothing special.

Originally posted by Otiro

 

Nice to see you agree with something. However I never said anything about not wanting to play a game based on what they called expansions per say. All I was doing was clarifying for Shukes33 that there are other games that also release free content. So it is nothing special.

 

correct we have an agreement

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Indirectly, yes.

I will try to explain it as simple as I can :

Publisher invests money;
Developer uses money to hire more programmers or to keep current programmers;
Because there are more programmers on staff (or even if no programmer is fired), then that means bugs get fixed faster, new content gets created faster, stability  improves, etc etc;

So, good publisher = more money = better game

But, there are some negative sides too. If you have an outside publisher, depending on your contract, they may have some say in the development of your game (directly or indirectly), or you may be strictly bound to a certain release date (reason why so many games released unfinished), or it may have some other ways for them to influence the development process of the game.

But, generally speaking, having a good publisher  is better then not having it, especially for a small company like AV and especially since it has such a bad track history.

 

"more money = better game"

means that WoW and EQ2 are the best games around and I am sure that is true for the majority but for me I am not impressed with what "more money" has done in this industry.

So no, sorry I do not agree with the basic forumla that more money = better game.

Not saying this for sure but if Billzard took over the game I would be very worried.

Dude, what does WOW has to do with all of this?

I'm talking about AV with 1 million euros compared to AV with 10 million euros. Are you getting it? AV with 10 million euros is BETTER then AV with 1 million of euros.

If AV is getting an outside producer, even if that other company does not invest ANYTHING into AV other then help it produce the game in NA (read save the cost of producing it by itself) then AV can use that saved money for other purposes. Hence the 10 million is better then 1 million formula. There is no WOW, no EQ, no Blizzard, there is just AV and a producer that SAVES money for AV. I cannot explain this any simpler.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Dude, what does WOW has to do with all of this?

I'm talking about AV with 1 million euros compared to AV with 10 million euros. Are you getting it? AV with 10 million euros is BETTER then AV with 1 million of euros.

If AV is getting an outside producer, even if that other company does not invest ANYTHING into AV other then help it produce the game in NA (read save the cost of producing it by itself) then AV can use that saved money for other purposes. Hence the 10 million is better then 1 million formula. There is no WOW, no EQ, no Blizzard, there is just AV and a producer that SAVES money for AV. I cannot explain this any simpler.

More money does NOT equal better games becuase the firms that have more money are not making better games.

done.

do you understand now?

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Dude, what does WOW has to do with all of this?

I'm talking about AV with 1 million euros compared to AV with 10 million euros. Are you getting it? AV with 10 million euros is BETTER then AV with 1 million of euros.

If AV is getting an outside producer, even if that other company does not invest ANYTHING into AV other then help it produce the game in NA (read save the cost of producing it by itself) then AV can use that saved money for other purposes. Hence the 10 million is better then 1 million formula. There is no WOW, no EQ, no Blizzard, there is just AV and a producer that SAVES money for AV. I cannot explain this any simpler.

 

More money does NOT equal better games becuase the firms that have more money are not making better games.

done.

 

do you understand now?

No, You mean to say "More money does not equal better games for me". Don't assume that everyone here thinks like you do, or likes the same things you do.

But for what you are replying to. See if Darkfall gets more money they can have the chance to hire more developers, or increase their servers to handle more and better game mechanics ( I mean code for you). In which case you could have an even more fulfilling gaming experience.

Do you understand? But of course you don't care about making the game better, that would mean we arenot talking about the game.

Ow well like Darkfall 1 step forward 2 steps back.

Originally posted by Otiro

No, You mean to say "More money does not equal better games for me". Don't assume that everyone here thinks like you do, or likes the same things you do.

But for what you are replying to. See if Darkfall gets more money they can have the chance to hire more developers, or increase their servers to handle more and better game mechanics ( I mean code for you). In which case you could have an even more fulfilling gaming experience.

Do you understand? But of course you don't care about making the game better, that would mean we arenot talking about the game.

Ow well like Darkfall 1 step forward 2 steps back.

More money does not equal better game for me...correct

I personally have not been impressed with the big studio games, I assume you are. If that assumption is correct then it means you have a much larger selection of games YOU like to play then I do. Which begs the question...why are you here?