Originally posted by drgran

well the first thing i have to ask is this game even released yet?

the second thing is that the http://www.econsumer.gov/ doesnt have greece on as one of the country that supports it

So complaining there might be a waste of time.

See people have to remember you pay to play their game not yours . when someone is gonna ask them someone about this topic they simply say they have technical difficulties and we cant do it at this time.

now someone said about loring in customers in the game. Companies do this all the time, like when you go to get some food at the store and you see a box pizza on for half price your like that is awesome and you get 2 and when you are ready to pay for it, it was the wrong kind of pizza and both are at full price. Companies always try to lorer people in to buy thier products.

About being  a shady company ... Maybe but maybe not. Again its their game your paying to play the game. They are allowed to do anything they want with thier game and im pretty sure you cant sue or anything about it.

But if the OP is that mad about it either leave the game or try in sueing them i bet the lawyers will love you then.

One problem with your example is that if a store was to do that you have every right to not only get your money back but to also get the product at the advertised price (here in America) there have been countless examples of car companies advertising in newsprint and typos offering cars for free etc. and if news like this get's out companies are forced to keep said agreement I've seen it at least twice and when it comes to store advertising I've seen it more times than you can imagine.  I won't say you are wrong but using traditional consumer laws as an example is making you totally wrong because consumer laws do not work this way at all in America.
 

Originally posted by BarCrow

       If the game gets killed it will likely be from lack of subs..from  shite like changing to 1 toon per sub after saying otherwise. I seriously doubt if it will be shut down because of E-complaints. Those things probably go straight into the junkmail folder and subsequently deleted after an auto response. Face it...the U.S. government only throws more money at bad business while shaking it's finger like a scolding parent.  And sending bitchnotes  to the F.B.I....lol...a bit extreme... besides..they couldn't even bother to read through the faxed warnings,proposals, essays and evidence of terrorist activities..until something drastic happened. So ...unless all the PCs running Darkfall simultaneously explode..killing thousands(providing there are that many subs)...then good luck.

Your logic is exactly why Bill Clinton thought he would get away with that white lie and MLB players like RC and BB can't find a team nor an organization to give them a sniff.  The US gov't has dropped the ball what government hasn't but please don't dilute yourself into thinking they have no interest in digging into affairs they have no business in nor that anything is safe from their scrutiny at any time.

I was one of the many that purchased the game to play on euro until I could roll on a NA server. If they would have been up front and not deceitful about how things would be when the NA server launched, they would not be having these issues. The good news is that my credit card company allows its users to dispute charges up to 12 months in the past. I have filed a dispute with my credit card company and all $$ was reversed from my purchase. I did so based on that the sold me, a North American, software that could not be used with a North American server. I also filed complaints with a half dozen consumer watch dog groups.

These guys give indie developers a bad name. May they burn in hell.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by indiramourn

Originally posted by BarCrow

       If the game gets killed it will likely be from lack of subs..from  shite like changing to 1 toon per sub after saying otherwise. I seriously doubt if it will be shut down because of E-complaints. Those things probably go straight into the junkmail folder and subsequently deleted after an auto response. Face it...the U.S. government only throws more money at bad business while shaking it's finger like a scolding parent.  And sending bitchnotes  to the F.B.I....lol...a bit extreme... besides..they couldn't even bother to read through the faxed warnings,proposals, essays and evidence of terrorist activities..until something drastic happened. So ...unless all the PCs running Darkfall simultaneously explode..killing thousands(providing there are that many subs)...then good luck.

 

The lowest pit of hell is reserved for those good men who do nothing. -- Dante

 

 

By letting it go, it all gets done. The world is won by those who let it go. But when you try and try the world is beyond the winning. --Laozi

Poor Darth has a zeal to copy and paste but he lacked the brain cell to comprehend what he accidentally cut from sources he never care to read in detail.  Laozi is an old Chinese philosopher, who thinks that things go the natural path.  Trying excessively to intervene without knowint the underlying mechanics can lead to counter-productive moves.  Excess fiddling with mother nature is one good example.  A lot of things in social life also evolves naturally, and scholars too zealously studying and intervening may not always be wise.  That is a deep school, not the same as the post romanic nihilist and 2000 years earlier in time.  The English translation is not very well done, as it try to capture, word by word, old Chinese text, which use the same character but not really the same meaning as the modern use of the words.  Yes, I am a Chinese, brought up in Chinese soil.

The simplest summary of Laozi's view is:

(1) Human capacity is limited, in duration, span and ability to apprehend

(2) Nature is limitless, way beyond the capability of humans to encompass

(3) So "Using a limited (human) to assess or follow or track down the unlimited (nature, world, whatever you call it) is a dangerous move", that is his famous line.  Written 2000 years ago, before the rise of the Qin dynasty.  That is a more representative way of trying to show one facet of the deep philosophy of Laozi, rather than the partial quote from Darth above.

Well Darth, you know what Laozi is saying to you?  He says, Let go, and stop spinning.  The more you try spinning, the further you are from winning.  Punt intended.  Seriously Darth, get some education before random quoting.  It only shows you a fool, well that is what you are.

Originally posted by FatGamer

I was one of the many that purchased the game to play on euro until I could roll on a NA server. If they would have been up front and not deceitful about how things would be when the NA server launched, they would not be having these issues. The good news is that my credit card company allows its users to dispute charges up to 12 months in the past. I have filed a dispute with my credit card company and all $$ was reversed from my purchase. I did so based on that the sold me, a North American, software that could not be used with a North American server. I also filed complaints with a half dozen consumer watch dog groups.

These guys give indie developers a bad name. May they burn in hell.

You just need to tell your credit card representative over the phone that it is AV, and chances are he will know what to do.  AV is on the top of the blacklisted companies of CC handling services.  Of course, you need to give them some kind of reason that makes sense, so that he can file a formal case.

Given its fame, it is not surprising that AV is going down soon.  With their fame, there is no way AV can raise new loans.  Or extend loans.  Banks will be looking for ways to recall loans to reduce exposure or risk, seeing that AV is /splat.  AV is trying every means possible, even near illegal means to get money, as it won't have any reputation left to protect.

Originally posted by Dovregubben

Imagine if people would use the same energy they do on insignificant subjects like this on things that actually mattered.

 

Obviously it mattered to you enough to create an account and make a post. 

You're hooked now.  Good luck ever getting anything done at work again. 

You guys actually think that will make any difference.  Unless Darkfall doesnt have a disclaimer in their user agreement saying your online experience may change after playing.. then you have no basis.  And I haven't seen a p2p mmo that doesnt have that to date.  So if they don't open a server or don't offer for you to switch servers.. nothing u can do about... maybe stop giving them your money?

Pretty gd pathetic though you spend that much time trying to get the government involved just b/c you can't play on a more local server.... What's funny is though.. what you did will get no where.. those guys will receive those complaints and probably laugh their ass off and put it in archives as nonsense or probably just delete it. 

Most patient people, and the intelligent ones, have waited to purchase the game WHEN the US server opened.  You people who didn't have anything better to do than buy a game with no official agreement to a US server b/c you didn't have the patience or the life to wait for it.....well I'm sure most of us have no pity for you.  You are just part of the online addicts these mmo companies exploit to make profits.

In all, don't bother the goverment with nonsense and idiotic complaints.  I am 100% percent positive they will no NOTHING about it.  Good luck though haha... dorks thinking you are starting a movement that is going to get you somewhere.. haha.

Originally posted by Nsane30

You guys actually think that will make any difference.  Unless Darkfall doesnt have a disclaimer in their user agreement saying your online experience may change after playing.. then you have no basis.  And I haven't seen a p2p mmo that doesnt have that to date.  So if they don't open a server or don't offer for you to switch servers.. nothing u can do about... maybe stop giving them your money?

Pretty gd pathetic though you spend that much time trying to get the government involved just b/c you can't play on a more local server.... What's funny is though.. what you did will get no where.. those guys will receive those complaints and probably laugh their ass off and put it in archives as nonsense or probably just delete it. 

Most patient people, and the intelligent ones, have waited to purchase the game WHEN the US server opened.  You people who didn't have anything better to do than buy a game with no official agreement to a US server b/c you didn't have the patience or the life to wait for it.....well I'm sure most of us have no pity for you.  You are just part of the online addicts these mmo companies exploit to make profits.

In all, don't bother the goverment with nonsense and idiotic complaints.  I am 100% percent positive they will no NOTHING about it.  Good luck though haha... dorks thinking you are starting a movement that is going to get you somewhere.. haha.

If history has taught us anything, its that 1 person can make a difference, even in the face of overwhelming hordes of mannequins. Perhaps the approach of some of these fine folk maybe a strong, but the intent is righteous. To put it in terms of black and white, Aventurine has knowingly made some really bad choices, and there are consequences to every bad choice.
 

Eventually all MMO'rs will realize its our responsibility as a whole to expect and demand better of our games.

Im so DELIGHTED I never suscribed! (dances out of the room).

Originally posted by Seytan

Im so DELIGHTED I never suscribed! (dances out of the room).

you really need to get out mate! or maybe find a nice partner to settle down with. If not maybe think of a sport to take up! honestly it will do wonders for your enjoyment of life :)

Wish them all the luck. It only takes a sensitive judge to give them the reason.

All this is, of course, based on the assumption there even is going to be a North American server. :-)

It's no assumption friend it has already been anounced and will be implemented next week. But given AV's reputation i suppose doe's not mean a thing haha. But i am 99% sure it will be opened.

why do you think they picked Greece for their base of operations, Greece legal system is a joke

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by sanders01

That's a little to far, I think. It's bad buisness practice, sure. But that's nothing you can sue for. Plus, the company is based in Greece, it's doubtful the US gov can do anything about their buisness practices over there. The most you could do, which is very unlikely, is stop the launch in America, but trust me, that wont happen :/

Can I get called a fanboy now for pointing out the truth? 

 

But they can do something about their practices here in the U.S. once the NA version is launched. Including forcing them to remove the product from U.S. availabilty. Which would mean NA players would have to go back to playing in the EU srvers and AV would lose any income they may have made from the NA servers.

Or they would start a server in Canada? :P

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by sanders01

That's a little to far, I think. It's bad buisness practice, sure. But that's nothing you can sue for. Plus, the company is based in Greece, it's doubtful the US gov can do anything about their buisness practices over there. The most you could do, which is very unlikely, is stop the launch in America, but trust me, that wont happen :/

Can I get called a fanboy now for pointing out the truth? 

 

But they can do something about their practices here in the U.S. once the NA version is launched. Including forcing them to remove the product from U.S. availabilty. Which would mean NA players would have to go back to playing in the EU srvers and AV would lose any income they may have made from the NA servers.

Or they would start a server in Canada? :P

They could, but it's hard to do anything with the U.S. when you get put on credit card and bank block lists. I'm not saying the government WILL do things to shut them out, but the government CAN shut them out if it needs to.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by sanders01

That's a little to far, I think. It's bad buisness practice, sure. But that's nothing you can sue for. Plus, the company is based in Greece, it's doubtful the US gov can do anything about their buisness practices over there. The most you could do, which is very unlikely, is stop the launch in America, but trust me, that wont happen :/

Can I get called a fanboy now for pointing out the truth? 

 

But they can do something about their practices here in the U.S. once the NA version is launched. Including forcing them to remove the product from U.S. availabilty. Which would mean NA players would have to go back to playing in the EU srvers and AV would lose any income they may have made from the NA servers.

Or they would start a server in Canada? :P

 

They could, but it's hard to do anything with the U.S. when you get put on credit card and bank block lists. I'm not saying the government WILL do things to shut them out, but the government CAN shut them out if it needs to.

Yeah, you are right.

It is probably all the charge backs that all those quitting are doing that is causing Aventurine problems.  Credit Card banks don't like it when they get multiple complaints against the same company.  Eventually they black-list them.

It is one of the great benefits of using a credit card though.  A lot of CC banks allow for a very long time (around a year) to do charge backs.  There have been some posts on the official DarkFall forums of players doing charge backs not only for the purchase of the game, but all the monthly charges as well.

I'd imagine that the finances of Aventurine are a bit dicey if the number of those claiming to have done charge backs on the official forums are correct. 

Oh well... should make for an interesting next 3 months for DarkFall. 

Originally posted by shukes33

Originally posted by Seytan

Im so DELIGHTED I never suscribed! (dances out of the room).

 

you really need to get out mate! or maybe find a nice partner to settle down with. If not maybe think of a sport to take up! honestly it will do wonders for your enjoyment of life :)

I have a very fufilling life...thank you very much. I also follow MMOs and other games im interested in, oh since you express interest in what I could do to have a more entertaining life, let me add I will be playing MO, why you ask? Oh you didnt, but since your interested, let me say because the devs there are honest. My interest in DFO currently is to see what its status is...and if it in fact will crash and burn, or not. 

Sorry if you feel my comment dosnt fit with your ideal of what should be posted here, and yes, I am ever so DELIGHTED...YES, DELIGHTED, I never suscribed to DFO, as it appears all my fears regarding the game were well founded, and my decision to not waste my TIME, see I highlighted that so you understand its important to the theme of my reply...on this game, which appears to be imploding as I type.

Fact you need to probably move along yourself, as this forum is pretty much dead except for rage threads over AV's most recent annoucements. I dont know you so im guessing from your comment...that you are a fan. The OFFICAL DFO forum is heavily moderated in that only pro DFO threads are typically allowed to exist, if I am correct and you are a fan...your time might better be spent there where you can soak up all the kindred feelings about DFO. See what I did there?

Bait and Switch requires the seller to refuse or make difficult the purchase of the original product. As you can still play the EU version and can buy either version this does not apply. Changing sales terms of preproduction items might be bad policy, but it isn't illegal. You still have the option to cancel your order.

Charge backs will fail if Adventurine can prove you logged in at least once. They will probably fail just for proving a shipping manifest.

Na na na na. *cymbal*  Na na na na.  *cymbal*  Hey heyyyyyyyyy, gooooddbyye!