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Darkfall Forum » General Discussion » If AV is scamming so is many other companies...
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If Aventurine is scamming people with the fee transfer and so forth, so are many other MMO companies. Any company that charges a fee to transfer a character, by someone's definition of this being a scam, is scamming themselves. Just because you do not fully comprehend what AV/Tasos says in their quotes, doesn't mean that what you 'think' they said is real. Adventurine never made a promise of 'free transfers'. Let's dig deeper and let's look at an example of a 'real' money grab. Blizzard and their character recustomization. Last I checked, it was $15 dollars to recustomize your character. Guess what? The horrible SOE has this feature for free in Vanguard and yet SOE is a scamming/crappy company to many people. I agree, SOE is a terrible company but the point here is to give some perspective on all this whining and crying, or rage against AV and Tasos. Even the beloved (especially on MMORPG.com) Turbine, which if you talk bad on these forums instantly nets you a few reports to moderators, has done some pretty shady crap. Look up AC2: Legions, the many months of bugs/exploits before AC: Throne of Destiny expansion in which players didn't see one update to the game (like five months). And on the AC box there is a feature that says MONTHLY updates. Furthermore, the players who played AC voted for an increase to $12.95 to help pay development costs of ToD.... and there was no mention of zero monthly updates and it didn't say this subscription was permanent. Though, I don't consider any of the above, or what AV is doing, as scamming. You want to get into scam level you should really research up on Mourning, Dark n Light, Rapid Reality and then you'll realize what companies are really the ugly ones. So, IMHO, Tasos and AV haven't even touched scamming and one could easily argue, they haven't even done anything as shady as Turbine or SOE (though, from a certain perspective, you could argue that SOE's tcg add-ons to EQII and Star Wars are scams at their hearts). So... in the end, this all simply boils down to the doomsayers, the haters, the people who think it's the popular thing to do are simply blowing a buncha smoke. Is it them being blind? Ignorant? Ignoring the facts? Or just strait up lying to everyone and perhaps themselves? Who knows... but what I do know is that everyday I come on these boards I find myself more inclined not to come back. These boards further prove that we human beings are not much higher in intelligence than animals sometimes. That we still run on primative mindsets, ignorant assumptions and brutal mob mentalities.
class Hater : IMoron |
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Just stop. AV opened ONE server. They invited the whole world to play there. There was never any mention of regional licenses / clients, and more than once they CLEARLY stated that the policy was one character per SERVER. They suckered us all in, got us to pay.....they used us to finance the game, and pay their bills.... And THEN they pop a new client fee / transfer fee on us. AND....they wait until RIGHT before the new server opens to tell us. They obviously knew this for a while, man....they just didn't tell anyone because they knew we would quit, and they needed our money in the mean while. Here...here's some quotes for you to mull over (Even though I've posted these already): Before: (From 2003 to about a few weeks ago) "Can I play all races on the same server?
------ Players in North America are welcome to participate in the European Launch. The plans for US servers aren’t finalized at the time of this announcement. We will offer the option for character migration to US servers for N. American players who wish to use it. We have had people playing without problem from all over the US and Canada. That being said, our servers are located in Germany and distance does affect ping-time. - Tasos ------ Our first release is the European release. The North American release will follow as soon as possible but not until a few months later. We’re allowing players from N. America to participate in the European release due to this fact. Of course we’ll make some allowances for these players if they would like to move to the US server when it launches. - Tasos ------ They're right after the European servers, but not soon enough for a lot of players to wait. We don't have a solid date to announce on a N. American server and that's why we're allowing N. American players the option to play on the European server. Ideally we would have loved to be able to launch world-wide but we just don't have the resources to do it right. - Tasos ------ Athens, Greece – December 5th, 2008 - Audio Visual Enterprises SA and Aventurine SA in a joint statement today announced that their highly anticipated MMORPG title Darkfall Online will launch across Europe on January 22nd, 2009. North American players are also welcome to participate in the European launch of Darkfall which will precede a North American launch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Further more, MANY MMORPGs allow the player to play on EU or NA servers on the SAME ACCOUNT. There is no special censorship, or regional limitations on the client...no region-coded DVD....in fact the fucking client is distributed via torrent. There's NO reason for an additional charge, other than a pathetically fucking OBVIOUS money grab by AV. So STOP trying to justify this shit. You can't.
Edit: I just want to add that although some other MMORPGS charge a fee for transfers, they ALSO have more than one server available at launch to choose from, meaning that the server choice is initially in the player's hands. In this case, we had no choice, and therefore were simply not able to choose the appropriate server. It didn't exist. LIKEWISE...some MMORPGs are region specific. In those cases, the various regional versions are simultaneously available at launch time, as well as their specific servers. The fact that there is a variance in version according to region is not hidden from the player until after purchase, but made known before the purchase occurs. Also, these regional versions are typically available in a boxed, "off the shelf" form. Therefore it is plainly evident that there was ONE server, and ONE client version....and NEVER, EVER were we led to believe, or informed that they were region specific and that we would need to pay for a NA specific license or pay a transfer fee with a three month delay and unspecified "restrictions". How much more fucking plain does this have to be for you to realise that we were SCAMMED, FUCKED, and LIED to?
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This is really the only quote that needs to be used:
"Our first release is the European release. The North American release will follow as soon as possible but not until a few months later. We’re allowing players from N. America to participate in the European release due to this fact. Of course we’ll make some allowances for these players if they would like to move to the US server when it launches. - Tasos"
For the OP. Please explain how Aventurine's current stance matches what Tasos said there. Is a transfer 3 months AFTER the NA launch "when it launches"? Is buying a NA client at full price an "allowance"?
Please explain what the "allowance" is that NA players are receiving "when it launches"? Really, I'd like to know. |
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They could be like Mourning; take your preorders, shut down the game and run with your money. AV worked a long time on the game, they did not want to release it to early. Then their investors decided to kick it up a notch. Look at the economy. Are you going to give some random company $100,000 and then just wait 10 years for something to happen in this economy? No, their investors wanted results when the economy took a nose dive. Lets see what their "expansion" brings us before we go to crazy about bashing what they are being told to do. "James T Kirk was a great man, but that was another life." |
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Originally posted by -Zeno-
The only problem with your nice little post there is that it is all complete opinion. You have no idea what conversation took place between Aventurine and their investors.
You are wanting the players to once again place their trust in a company that has proven time and time again that they DO NOT stand by their word.
That is fine if you want to extend them yet another few months of grace to prove themselves. For many though... this was the last straw. |
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Whargh0ul, The quotes you posted have no promises of free transfers or delayed transfers. Furthermore, given the track record of how companies do server transfers, one would almost be inclined to think that all people would expect a server transaction fee. Furthermore, since the publishers of the NA launch will be different than the publishers of the EU launch it makes it even more complicated. Essentially, you are having two different account setup/platforms and thus you have communication/connectivity issues to contend with while transfering characters and further infrastructure that has to be added to accomplish this. It becomes far less seamless when you have two different publishers transferring between each other. Though, I agree that it could be done so cheaply that charging a fee really is about making some extra money, no doubt about that. Having said that none of what you provided proves anything close to scamming.
class Hater : IMoron |
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Seen_Justice
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/29/08
Want to try the deepest card game ever made? www.5Dthegame.com |
To the OP: You don't justify your wrong doing because "everyone else" is a crook. Especially when you have absolutely nothing going for you like AV. The "least" they can do with their shit game, is to walk the line very carefuly and show their customers they can compensate their incompetence at making games by at least showing some ethics. Obviously, they have neither of them, which puts them at the bottom of the whole creation of this industry right now. They can join the hall of shame previously started by Mourning, Dark & Light and other piece of rotted junk like this. Creativity : The ability to transcend traditional ideas, rules, patterns, relationships, or the like, and to create meaningful new ideas, forms, methods or interpretations; using originality, progressiveness, or imagination. |
Originally posted by Dethnoble Oh stop. Just fucking stop. First off, as I said, transfers usually cost money when it's a player initiated transfer from a server that they CHOSE to play on....not when there was only one fucking server available to begin with. Second off, let me direct you to The Chronicles Of Spellborn. I have ONE client...ONE license, and I have toons on an EU server, and a NA server. Two seperate "publishers" are involved in this case as well. Also, let's not forget the many otehr MMOs over the years that freely allow you to choose which server to play on, regardless of region. It's a fucking cop-out. I have to wonder how many times you've fallen for work-at-home offers, and how many penis enlargement pills you have floating around...
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Insinuating that I'm stupid isn't going to change the fact that you're just blowing a buncha smoke.... there is no real substance to your argument. Really, you look pathetic in your attempt at arguing this. =/ class Hater : IMoron |
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Originally posted by Wharg0ul
1. when NA server comes out do you not have the "CHOICE" to stay on that server? I hope so becuase I am NA and I plan on staying. If this is true I am not sure what "no choice" you are refering to in this context. 2. Its $50 in one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, hobby in the history of mankind give it up. You spend more than that on your pen and paper games I am sure |
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Originally posted by SEANMCAD
1. when NA server comes out do you not have the "CHOICE" to stay on that server? I hope so becuase I am NA and I plan on staying. If this is true I am not sure what "no choice" you are refering to in this context. 2. Its $50 in one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, hobby in the history of mankind give it up. You spend more than that on your pen and paper games I am sure
1: have fun getting pwned by people with 1/10th your ping 2: I already bought the game once. And my PnP games cost nothing...I'm using books that I bought 15-20 years ago. You seem to have no problem getting fucked over....and are happily willing to pay for the privelage. No wonder there are so many scammers out in the world.
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Originally posted by Dethnoble
Actually, My "argument" seems to have quite a bit of validity...enough so that there are a LOT of people who agree with it, and are giving AV the ole' one finger salute. The fact that you support AV's unethical, shady practices speaks more for you and your character than any harsh words of mine could ever do, so I think I'll just point and laugh.
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Originally posted by Wharg0ul
1. ok its clear to me you dont fully understand the concept of "choice" in the context that you are using it in your point. that is unfortunate. I dont think most MMO's consider it a "choice" only if you personally are having fun on your existing server. 2.....fair enough If there was a game that I could enjoy more I GUARNTEE you I would be playing it tonight. But as it is, I can take that $50 and buy porn, or play DF. |
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Deathstrike2
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/04/06
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Actually, My "argument" seems to have quite a bit of validity...enough so that there are a LOT of people who agree with it, and are giving AV the ole' one finger salute. The fact that you support AV's unethical, shady practices speaks more for you and your character than any harsh words of mine could ever do, so I think I'll just point and laugh.
I agree with WhargOul on this one. AV is without a doubt the most unprofessional MMO company I've ever seen or dealt with. This latest nonsense is just the latest in a long string of stupidity that some people seem more than willing to buy into and put up with. To each their own I suppose. |
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Wharg0ul is absolutely right on this. It is pure fact spinning and baiting with a nice little smokescreen over it to leave it to our ""interpretation". It leaves AV with a clean shirt and opens ground for more vague information to bait even more. Others would also call that a medicore scam. Medicore because a lot of people with common sense have noticed the money grab while some of the usual shills can not see beyond the whole thing to reach to the fact that in the end you always have to pay. Honestly you can post "he never said that" as much as you want but everybody knows it is a damn bait. Have fun playing that wreckage alone!
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Originally posted by Dethnoble
Other than the fact that the vast majority on not only this forum, but the Official forums as well... AGREE with him.
Again... please point out what "allowance" that Aventurine is providing "when it (the NA server) launches"?
Long-time supporters of the game from this forum and the official forums are saying this is a scam and money-grab. There are tons of posts on the official forums of players quiting over this. Not just random one-day old accounts... accounts that have been supportive of Aventurine from the very beginning.
Nope. Aventurine is in the wrong on this one. If they don't change their stance DarkFall will not see the end of the year. Laugh if you want. When the silence of 2 empty servers echos across the wasteland perhaps you may stop and think... Hmm... perhaps they were right? |
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Originally posted by -Zeno-
This is funny..Players waited 8 years for the game to come out and now look at it.. I might not be all ways right,but i am never wrong.. |
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Originally posted by SEANMCAD
1. ok its clear to me you dont fully understand the concept of "choice" in the context that you are using it in your point. that is unfortunate. I dont think most MMO's consider it a "choice" only if you personally are having fun on your existing server. 2.....fair enough If there was a game that I could enjoy more I GUARNTEE you I would be playing it tonight. But as it is, I can take that $50 and buy porn, or play DF.
Dude, I GAVE AV a chance...I gave them the benefit of the doubt already. I bought Darkfall despite all the warnings about shady practices, broken promises, etc. in fact you don't want to KNOW what I went through to buy the game, and what a miricle it was that I even got a copy when I did. Then they pull this shit, and I'll tell you what...I'm NOT giving them any more money. That $50 will go toward MO, or Earthrise, or some other game that's not such a broken fiasco. AV has proven to ME that they don't DESERVE my money. All of us NA players who kept their gale alive this long, and put food on their tables obviously don't mean shit to them, so fuck 'em. You can keep paying them, that's your call, but I find it kind of sad that people take this kinf of treatment lying down...especially since it only encourages such behavior.
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I just wish people would talk more about the actual game instead of the fucking company for an intresting change
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Originally posted by Wharg0ul
DUDE! If you didnt like the game you should not have played it. If you liked it you should have continued. Fuck AV either way.
PEROID>
end of story. |
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Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Well they shouldn t make it so easy to critic them then. Enough with this other companies do this shit. In the statements above it states that you can come buy EU version and can transfer to NA when available. Why the fuck is it so hard to understand that charging a fee to transfer announcment at the time of the original post by the moron that leads this company would have made all this a non issue. All it s doing is upsetting current and future customers to the point I swear they want to declare banruptcy. In all honesty that would be the best thing for the genre. |
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Originally posted by SEANMCAD
1. when NA server comes out do you not have the "CHOICE" to stay on that server? I hope so becuase I am NA and I plan on staying. If this is true I am not sure what "no choice" you are refering to in this context. 2. Its $50 in one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest, hobby in the history of mankind give it up. You spend more than that on your pen and paper games I am sure
I have about a dozen other hobbies that don't cost me anywhere near 50 dollars, some of wich cost me practically nothing; none of wich cost me a monthly sub. I have to agree with Wharg0ul. |
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LiquidWolf
 Hard Core Member
Joined: 4/18/07
Currently Playing: |
I have not seen much about a transfer fee so far... All i've seen is that you have to wait 3 months to transfer to the NA server. If you want on the server before that, you need to pay for a new client. Where is the problem? That people just don't want to pay for a new client? well don't... wait. They don't want to wait 3 months? well pay for a new client. It isn't like you don't have options... you just don't like the options you are given.
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Geez stop arguing with sean he is like the biggest fanboy here since darth. Like a little scholar of Tardos. Nitpicking other peoples hobbies? cheapest thread derailing. Kinda low you got there..Why post so much babble sean? Bored with DF? Ah silly me the macro is doing all the work so you have much time on your hands spamming here. Well..continue making a fool out of yourself on these nice forums and enjoy your subpar afk macro scam game!
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Warghoul: "LIKEWISE...some MMORPGs are region specific. In those cases, the various regional versions are simultaneously available at launch time, as well as their specific servers. The fact that there is a variance in version according to region is not hidden from the player until after purchase, but made known before the purchase occurs. Also, these regional versions are typically available in a boxed, "off the shelf" form." That is what those of you defending AV should try to comprehend. Communication and transparence that's where AV is lacking. All else could be explained and defended if you want to stretch it, but to me it seems like they have been extremly vague and uninformative and probably with the intention of being so... All other things considered though, it is also a gigantic mistake by AV to treat their small fanbase like this. They seemed to have a small but dedicated following, if you have that you don't anger them but try to play fairly with the customers and try to build a trusting community through them. That was their chance to slowly get a footing and the grow, the path they now have taken will lead to ruin for themselves. 
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You think the Expansion is going to make any different?
For crying out loud ..DF is still not working right and you want us to wait for the Expansion..?
