Originally posted by Ihmotepp

No maximum. Release one screenshot, one video, one controlled "review", and you start the hype all over again.

Yeah I agree. It a whole cycle thing. I get interested then I lose interest. Sometimes the game seem to promise too much, sometimes it seems promising, etc;

Though this game seems to have had an interesting development and an uncertain future overall. The lack of leaks form beta is interesting to say the least.

Originally posted by GiveMePvP

Reading this Darkfall forum, one question comes to mind: what is the maximum time people will follow the game on pure hype? 10 years? 20 years?

I mean lets face it, Darkfall is NOT launching in 2008. Will it launch in 2009, who knows, but looking at their track record I would say no.

All these "reviews", "previews" and other crap are a JOKE. Darkfall devs are probably reading all your "Omg, it's finally going to launch!" posts and laughing their asses off.

They are giving us very little official information, only some weak material from "family and friends beta". This means only one thing: THE GAME IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING READY.

Greatest lesson I learned from Age of Conan scandal was that as soon as devs go silent it means shit has really hit the fan.

It's only hype and hope that keeps Darkfall alive in the hearts of some of our regulars. I'm sure one year from now we will have these same guys here telling each other how awesome the new screenshots are and how the two italian forum mods are going to go do a re-review of Darkfall without NDA.

be pretty funny when it does release in 2008 even tho i really dontknow if it will or not

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Focker

Originally posted by Random_mage

And you say "needs an indie developer to come along and shake things up".  No.  What we need is a company who isn't trying to make a shit ton of money on their game, and can be HONEST with where they are in development.. and let the game speak for itself...

 

Im not sure how DF doesn't fit this type of development.  The developers of DF dont seem to be worried about making a "shit ton of money" .  I mean I havn't seen any advertising for this game other then in the forums where its talked about.  As for the  "let the game speak for itself"  isnt' that what DF is planning on doing?  allow people to try it before they have to buy it?  *shrugs* 

Im not sure why you would say DF is deseptive? 

 

We are looking to do open beta this year..

For the past 5 years.

And I am basically saying that we need a game company that want's people to play their game.. and not spend hours on message boards trying to sell it to other people via word of mouth.  A company that is honest about the develop of their game.  OR doesn't talk about it.  Not one that's in the middle.  don't tell the customer that your product is ready, when it's not.  Don't make me tell my friends how awesome darkfall is, just to .. prospone a launch.. AGAIN...

I take it as them just  being wrong with their guesstimate of time to release.  Not that they were trying to decieve me in some way.   That being said, I'll keep checking back as long as they are expected to release a game one day. 

Originally posted by Focker

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Focker

Originally posted by Random_mage

And you say "needs an indie developer to come along and shake things up".  No.  What we need is a company who isn't trying to make a shit ton of money on their game, and can be HONEST with where they are in development.. and let the game speak for itself...

 

Im not sure how DF doesn't fit this type of development.  The developers of DF dont seem to be worried about making a "shit ton of money" .  I mean I havn't seen any advertising for this game other then in the forums where its talked about.  As for the  "let the game speak for itself"  isnt' that what DF is planning on doing?  allow people to try it before they have to buy it?  *shrugs* 

Im not sure why you would say DF is deseptive? 

 

We are looking to do open beta this year..

For the past 5 years.

And I am basically saying that we need a game company that want's people to play their game.. and not spend hours on message boards trying to sell it to other people via word of mouth.  A company that is honest about the develop of their game.  OR doesn't talk about it.  Not one that's in the middle.  don't tell the customer that your product is ready, when it's not.  Don't make me tell my friends how awesome darkfall is, just to .. prospone a launch.. AGAIN...

 

I take it as them just  being wrong with their guesstimate of time to release.  Not that they were trying to decieve me in some way.   That being said, I'll keep checking back as long as they are expected to release a game one day. 

How the hell do you miss a game development "guesstimate" by 4 years???

Originally posted by GiveMePvP

Reading this Darkfall forum, one question comes to mind: what is the maximum time people will follow the game on pure hype? 10 years? 20 years?

I mean lets face it, Darkfall is NOT launching in 2008. Will it launch in 2009, who knows, but looking at their track record I would say no.

All these "reviews", "previews" and other crap are a JOKE. Darkfall devs are probably reading all your "Omg, it's finally going to launch!" posts and laughing their asses off.

They are giving us very little official information, only some weak material from "family and friends beta". This means only one thing: THE GAME IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING READY.

Greatest lesson I learned from Age of Conan scandal was that as soon as devs go silent it means shit has really hit the fan.

It's only hype and hope that keeps Darkfall alive in the hearts of some of our regulars. I'm sure one year from now we will have these same guys here telling each other how awesome the new screenshots are and how the two italian forum mods are going to go do a re-review of Darkfall without NDA.

this has become a cult, people will follow this until the end of time!

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Focker

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by Focker

Originally posted by Random_mage

And you say "needs an indie developer to come along and shake things up".  No.  What we need is a company who isn't trying to make a shit ton of money on their game, and can be HONEST with where they are in development.. and let the game speak for itself...

 

Im not sure how DF doesn't fit this type of development.  The developers of DF dont seem to be worried about making a "shit ton of money" .  I mean I havn't seen any advertising for this game other then in the forums where its talked about.  As for the  "let the game speak for itself"  isnt' that what DF is planning on doing?  allow people to try it before they have to buy it?  *shrugs* 

Im not sure why you would say DF is deseptive? 

 

We are looking to do open beta this year..

For the past 5 years.

And I am basically saying that we need a game company that want's people to play their game.. and not spend hours on message boards trying to sell it to other people via word of mouth.  A company that is honest about the develop of their game.  OR doesn't talk about it.  Not one that's in the middle.  don't tell the customer that your product is ready, when it's not.  Don't make me tell my friends how awesome darkfall is, just to .. prospone a launch.. AGAIN...

 

I take it as them just  being wrong with their guesstimate of time to release.  Not that they were trying to decieve me in some way.   That being said, I'll keep checking back as long as they are expected to release a game one day. 

 

How the hell do you miss a game development "guesstimate" by 4 years???

By not having the quoting time expereince for making a MMORPG. 
 

 Until a game better than the crap we get now is made. Sadly, this is the ONLY game being made that actually tries to REimplement features that have been missing since the Crash of the MMO market following WoW release. 

Originally posted by Moretrinkets

 

this has become a cult, people will follow this until the end of time!

haha, if following a game that sounds fun is a cult.... then wheres the kool-aid?!

Originally posted by SignusM

 Until a game better than the crap we get now is made. Sadly, this is the ONLY game being made that actually tries to REimplement features that have been missing since the Crash of the MMO market following WoW release. 

Yep a lot of people on this forum seem to make the mistake of calling us cult members because they dont understand the above.

A couple terrible posters (who ill not name out of fear of their tendancy to report after they bait) consistently post stuff like "if we dont agree with the cult then we are trolls"  or "the fanbois just say all hail the holy Tasos he can do no wrong"  and they dont realize how ignorant they look because the majority of fans dont act like that.  They dont understand that those of us who choose to follow this game with a lot of faith do it partially because we are use to more challenging and different experiences.

The MMOs on the market right now, while some are well designed and fun for some, just pale in comparison to the "feeling" that the pre-WoW ones gave. 

I saw a few people post this in other threads today and it makes a lot of sense so ill repost it to hopefully open the eyes of some of the "bash DF anychance i get" posters:

Everyone should be rooting for DF to succeed.  Whether you like the game or not, or like how the devs communicate pre-launch....we need smaller developers to succeed with games that take risks and break the mold of the WoW clones like WAR etc we have on the market today.

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by SignusM

 Until a game better than the crap we get now is made. Sadly, this is the ONLY game being made that actually tries to REimplement features that have been missing since the Crash of the MMO market following WoW release. 

 

Yep a lot of people on this forum seem to make the mistake of calling us cult members because they dont understand the above.

A couple terrible posters (who ill not name out of fear of their tendancy to report after they bait) consistently post stuff like "if we dont agree with the cult then we are trolls"  or "the fanbois just say all hail the holy Tasos he can do no wrong"  and they dont realize how ignorant they look because the majority of fans dont act like that.  They dont understand that those of us who choose to follow this game with a lot of faith do it partially because we are use to more challenging and different experiences.

The MMOs on the market right now, while some are well designed and fun for some, just pale in comparison to the "feeling" that the pre-WoW ones gave. 

I saw a few people post this in other threads today and it makes a lot of sense so ill repost it to hopefully open the eyes of some of the "bash DF anychance i get" posters:

Everyone should be rooting for DF to succeed.  Whether you like the game or not, or like how the devs communicate pre-launch....we need smaller developers to succeed with games that take risks and break the mold of the WoW clones like WAR etc we have on the market today.

 

That is what a cult is. A group of people that want something so bad, they will blindly follow a leader promising to give them what they want. Tehy will not question the leader, just believe his every word.

Many of us want a game like this, but we will not sit there and believe some guy that had continually promised stuff and never delivers. Game has been said to be ready for external beta since 2004, Clan beta opened in 2005, here we are in 2008 and they are only now showing us the starter area and a couple "reviews" of the beta gameplay.

I will only follow the game til January, then never post in the forums again. No way 2000-2009 and no release. You can sit there and keep believing every word Tasos says and not question the Devs, i will continue to ask realistic questions.

Originally posted by khameleon

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by SignusM

 Until a game better than the crap we get now is made. Sadly, this is the ONLY game being made that actually tries to REimplement features that have been missing since the Crash of the MMO market following WoW release. 

 

Yep a lot of people on this forum seem to make the mistake of calling us cult members because they dont understand the above.

A couple terrible posters (who ill not name out of fear of their tendancy to report after they bait) consistently post stuff like "if we dont agree with the cult then we are trolls"  or "the fanbois just say all hail the holy Tasos he can do no wrong"  and they dont realize how ignorant they look because the majority of fans dont act like that.  They dont understand that those of us who choose to follow this game with a lot of faith do it partially because we are use to more challenging and different experiences.

The MMOs on the market right now, while some are well designed and fun for some, just pale in comparison to the "feeling" that the pre-WoW ones gave. 

I saw a few people post this in other threads today and it makes a lot of sense so ill repost it to hopefully open the eyes of some of the "bash DF anychance i get" posters:

Everyone should be rooting for DF to succeed.  Whether you like the game or not, or like how the devs communicate pre-launch....we need smaller developers to succeed with games that take risks and break the mold of the WoW clones like WAR etc we have on the market today.

 

 

That is what a cult is. A group of people that want something so bad, they will blindly follow a leader promising to give them what they want. Tehy will not question the leader, just believe his every word.

Many of us want a game like this, but we will not sit there and believe some guy that had continually promised stuff and never delivers. Game has been said to be ready for external beta since 2004, Clan beta opened in 2005, here we are in 2008 and they are only now showing us the starter area and a couple "reviews" of the beta gameplay.

I will only follow the game til January, then never post in the forums again. No way 2000-2009 and no release. You can sit there and keep believing every word Tasos says and not question the Devs, i will continue to ask realistic questions.

 

 

Again you enjoy posting factually wrong information.

Tasos has made many statements that he has delivered on 100%.  If you dont understand this then I guess you never really follow the game and just go off of hearsay on this forum.

Hint:  One of many examples would be saying there will be a video by the end of august or soon after....and the video was released in august.

Also, Tasos has never promised anything that wasnt delivered.  You are just feel, wrongly, that you are owed something or that you are a customer that deserves anything.  Missing beta deadlines is not lieing especially since he never said "i promise on my mothers grave that beta will be going on x date"

We should be begging companies to delay if things arent ready yet.  But unfortunatly it is people like YOU who are ruining the genre by demanding developers to release asap.

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by khameleon

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by SignusM

 Until a game better than the crap we get now is made. Sadly, this is the ONLY game being made that actually tries to REimplement features that have been missing since the Crash of the MMO market following WoW release. 

 

Yep a lot of people on this forum seem to make the mistake of calling us cult members because they dont understand the above.

A couple terrible posters (who ill not name out of fear of their tendancy to report after they bait) consistently post stuff like "if we dont agree with the cult then we are trolls"  or "the fanbois just say all hail the holy Tasos he can do no wrong"  and they dont realize how ignorant they look because the majority of fans dont act like that.  They dont understand that those of us who choose to follow this game with a lot of faith do it partially because we are use to more challenging and different experiences.

The MMOs on the market right now, while some are well designed and fun for some, just pale in comparison to the "feeling" that the pre-WoW ones gave. 

I saw a few people post this in other threads today and it makes a lot of sense so ill repost it to hopefully open the eyes of some of the "bash DF anychance i get" posters:

Everyone should be rooting for DF to succeed.  Whether you like the game or not, or like how the devs communicate pre-launch....we need smaller developers to succeed with games that take risks and break the mold of the WoW clones like WAR etc we have on the market today.

 

 

That is what a cult is. A group of people that want something so bad, they will blindly follow a leader promising to give them what they want. Tehy will not question the leader, just believe his every word.

Many of us want a game like this, but we will not sit there and believe some guy that had continually promised stuff and never delivers. Game has been said to be ready for external beta since 2004, Clan beta opened in 2005, here we are in 2008 and they are only now showing us the starter area and a couple "reviews" of the beta gameplay.

I will only follow the game til January, then never post in the forums again. No way 2000-2009 and no release. You can sit there and keep believing every word Tasos says and not question the Devs, i will continue to ask realistic questions.

 

 

 

Again you enjoy posting factually wrong information.

Tasos has made many statements that he has delivered on 100%.  If you dont understand this then I guess you never really follow the game and just go off of hearsay on this forum.

Hint:  One of many examples would be saying there will be a video by the end of august or soon after....and the video was released in august.

Also, Tasos has never promised anything that wasnt delivered.  You are just feel, wrongly, that you are owed something or that you are a customer that deserves anything.  Missing beta deadlines is not lieing especially since he never said "i promise on my mothers grave that beta will be going on x date"

We should be begging companies to delay if things arent ready yet.  But unfortunatly it is people like YOU who are ruining the genre by demanding developers to release asap.

the end of the video did say darkfall would be released (not in beta, but retailer version) in 2008.

just saying.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by khameleon

Originally posted by imbant

Originally posted by SignusM

 Until a game better than the crap we get now is made. Sadly, this is the ONLY game being made that actually tries to REimplement features that have been missing since the Crash of the MMO market following WoW release. 

 

Yep a lot of people on this forum seem to make the mistake of calling us cult members because they dont understand the above.

A couple terrible posters (who ill not name out of fear of their tendancy to report after they bait) consistently post stuff like "if we dont agree with the cult then we are trolls"  or "the fanbois just say all hail the holy Tasos he can do no wrong"  and they dont realize how ignorant they look because the majority of fans dont act like that.  They dont understand that those of us who choose to follow this game with a lot of faith do it partially because we are use to more challenging and different experiences.

The MMOs on the market right now, while some are well designed and fun for some, just pale in comparison to the "feeling" that the pre-WoW ones gave. 

I saw a few people post this in other threads today and it makes a lot of sense so ill repost it to hopefully open the eyes of some of the "bash DF anychance i get" posters:

Everyone should be rooting for DF to succeed.  Whether you like the game or not, or like how the devs communicate pre-launch....we need smaller developers to succeed with games that take risks and break the mold of the WoW clones like WAR etc we have on the market today.

 

 

That is what a cult is. A group of people that want something so bad, they will blindly follow a leader promising to give them what they want. Tehy will not question the leader, just believe his every word.

Many of us want a game like this, but we will not sit there and believe some guy that had continually promised stuff and never delivers. Game has been said to be ready for external beta since 2004, Clan beta opened in 2005, here we are in 2008 and they are only now showing us the starter area and a couple "reviews" of the beta gameplay.

I will only follow the game til January, then never post in the forums again. No way 2000-2009 and no release. You can sit there and keep believing every word Tasos says and not question the Devs, i will continue to ask realistic questions.

 

 

 

Again you enjoy posting factually wrong information.

Tasos has made many statements that he has delivered on 100%.  If you dont understand this then I guess you never really follow the game and just go off of hearsay on this forum.

Hint:  One of many examples would be saying there will be a video by the end of august or soon after....and the video was released in august.

Also, Tasos has never promised anything that wasnt delivered.  You are just feel, wrongly, that you are owed something or that you are a customer that deserves anything.  Missing beta deadlines is not lieing especially since he never said "i promise on my mothers grave that beta will be going on x date"

We should be begging companies to delay if things arent ready yet.  But unfortunatly it is people like YOU who are ruining the genre by demanding developers to release asap.

 

 

 

the end of the video did say darkfall would be released (not in beta, but retailer version) in 2008.

 

just saying.

ok? how does that have anything to do with what you quoted me on saying?  Is that a lie?  (obviously not since 2008 is still going) 

It isn't even a promise, just a goal.  People attach the word promise too loosely.  Yes the 2008 on the end of the video is a goal and a commitment to the DF community.  However if they miss the goal and explain why, it won't be a lie.  Wouldnt be the first time it happened in the MMO genre....

None of us are customers yet.  No one is entitled to anything.  This game will be judged once it is released and how the company treats its customers.  Until then...you can only be critical of their marketing tactics or lack of it.  Them choosing to run forums, for free, and offer information, for free, and continuously update us, for free.....is their choice and is not needed.

I wonder what would happen if today a MMO was announced.  The game was completely done and has gone gold.  The developer announces the release date as 2 months from now in which time they will be marketing it while allowing media to test it and review it or something along those lines. 

Originally posted by damian7

 

 the end of the video did say darkfall would be released (not in beta, but retailer version) in 2008.

 

just saying.

And other MMo's have stated dates as well that were changed.  Doesn't matter if they decide to change the date again, and again, and yet again.  There is no other MMO out there that is worth paying for, so until then i'll be waiting for a game like DF to come out. 

Pass me the kool-aid!  Hope its red! 

It's vaporware! Sure, I'd love it to NOT be vaporware, but until they let some respected english-speaking press people to have some access at the game, it's vaporware. The games concept is great, but I just don't think it's ever gonna release, and if it does, it'll be shit.

Agree with OP. People are following this game like puppies based on next to no evidence.

Darkfall is gonna be like sausages. They always smell better than they taste.

<modedit>

There will always be fans of DF who will follow/support the game no  matter how long it takes.

But should Mortal Online/Earthrise and other upcoming games actually release before it, then DF will  become increasingly irrelevant.

But hey, its releasing in 2008, so we have nothing to worry about.

Until a developer comes along and offers what DF offers on paper and releases it, then my answer is quite a long time since it doesnt cost me anything and the possible amazing result is worth being disapointed.  I have a talent that some of the naysayers seem to not have, and thats i dont feel personally wronged by video games not living up to the hype.  If DF sucks then thats unfortunate...but im not going to cry about it.

Mortal Online seems like it may be a possible fall back, but that game has shown way less than DF at this point so we will see how they do.  Their developers dont seem to quite "get it" in my opinion after reading some of their statements, but the premise of the game seems like it could be fun.  Summer 09 apparently..we'll see.

There are a lot of people on these forums in the middle.  I like to think I am one of them.  I take all of the information and analyze it and then form an opinion based on ALL of the information at hand.

The two extremes.  The fanboys and the anti-fanboys like to take half of the information and then present their opinion as factual information.  They just take different halfs.

Here's what I mean.  Fanboys will take all of the information about a subject related to Darkfall that we have, and then post their opinion based on the parts that cannot be proven or backed up with any factual data.  Ignoring all of the things that can be proven as fact.

The anti-fanboys like to post past mistakes and all of the things that can be proven as false and make up their own "facts" for the parts that we don't have all of the information about yet.

Example 1:

Fanboy:  Tasos has never promised anything, Aventurine has never lied to us!

Anti-fanboy:  Tasos lies all of the time.  He said beta was going to start 10 times and it never has!

Me:  Tasos has said twice that a form of beta was going to start "soon".  Soon to me does not mean 3 years later.  He also said that they were on course for a 2007 release in 2006.  That did not happen, and there was never an announcement of why it was not released, why beta did not start, no explanation for anything that Tasos has misleadingly said.

Example 2:

Fanboy:  2008 is just a projected release date.  Beta has started, the game is not vaporware.  If it does not release in 2008 it's ok because developers push back their release dates all of the time.

Anti-fanboy:  If the game does not release in 2008 it is going to be a failure.  Beta only has 10 people in it.  They only have half the features in the game!  I won't play it even if it is released because it's vaporware!

Me:  Tasos has already stated that the game is feature complete and will be released after a short beta.  He also announced multiple times that the game will be released before the end of 2008.  I don't understand how the game could be feature complete and ready to be released but still be delayed.  The only answer here is that Tasos is lying if it is not released in 2008.

Yes, developers push back release dates all the time.  Aventurine has never pushed their release date back.  They simply announce a projected release year, and then never speak of it again.  This time is different though.  Tasos has said the game WILL be released in 2008.

The game is currently vaporware.   This is just a simple fact.  There is no way to dispute it, no matter what definition of vaporware you use.  The funny thing is, though, that I see the anti-fanboys posting that it will still be vaporware after release.   This is not even possible.  Once the game is released, it will cease to be vaporware.

Vaporware is such a vague term, especially lately, that is is tough to say it is FACT this it is or is not vaporware.  Sorry daemenok but is debatable, even if it cant be proven either way.

I would argue that the common definition used by those who claim it is vaporware says something like "it doesnt show any signs of releasing soon"  which in my opinion makes DF not vaporware.

Was it vaporware for a long time?  OF COURSE!

Is it vaporware now since it has given us a LOT of information in the last few months that show it is close to release (moved to public beta, open beta planned, gameplay video like we had never seen in past videos, shown at a conference, has a publisher etc etc)......in my opinion all of this says it is not currently vaporware.

Originally posted by demalus

 So, is the point of this post to ridicule fans of Darkfall?

 

I'll follow the game as long as it's more fun to simply read about it than it is to play another MMO (yes, WoW and WAR are less fun than simply reading about Darkfall to me :P).

While I wouldn't put it as harsh ( I for one actually am playing a game I like pretty much currently), the essence is correct:
Apart from the obviuosly disadjusted rabid fans, the vast majority of DF followers (which might be less vocal at times) is following it for the sole reason that it still advertises a unique featureset and game design among the broad spectrum of MMO clones currently available. There are still games that partially appeal to those customers, but those are terribly outdated by now, so there really isn't any strong alternative available.

That in mind, what's so wrong with following the only game in development that at least might fulfill a significant amount of what you're individually looking for in a game? What's so hard to understand if parts of those over time take offense in the maybe even correct use of dumb stereotypes like "Vaporware"?

I personally don't feel offended by that very expression. To me it's just a matter of definitions (it's not like there'd even be any agreed on, proven definition available even, - please spare me the wiki link, it's just as pathetic as the expression itself). It's absolutely ok to not trust in a game until it's either reviewed by a source you trust (individually again, there is no common "trust" in press and/or websites) or you had hands on yourself. In fact, until then, it's merely a development I'm interested in, rather than a game for my own tast. If people want to call that Vaporware, so be it, it's just a word for an opinion I actually share up to a certain level, - not a very educated one, yet understandable.

So, as a bottom line, people will be following this game as long as there is a chance for it to see the light in order to at least see reliable reviews or test it out themselves. Funny enough, it's rather obvious this is going just as much for those labeled "fanbois" (another wonderful and empty word shell) as "haters" (see above).
The ongoing discussion about the nuances would be far more pleasurable if people would rely on actual vocabulary rather than nerd speak, thus avoiding misunderstanding and annoying others on a large scale. - And this is coming from someone with english as his third language,- give it a try it's not that hard people