Originally posted by Bakoryo

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by UbberGoober

If you get killed and looted then all you have to do is go up to a mob kill it, if the mob carries a bow, sword, armor and sheild this is what you get.

 

If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?

 

 

Gives a pretty coin? Or just for a trophy? Besides, i think crafted items will have more endurance/performance than a weapon that a monster have been using.

But that loot will be more than enough to Quest and Craft and PvE and slowly but surely , there will be no value or challenge to kill peopel doing these types of activity. Especially when you may have to walk for an hour just on the off chance you may find them..
 

If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?

Not every mob will have weapons and armor, A skeleton soldier will or a simmilar mob that carries them a bear for example wont have drops like that when you kill a bear you will ger fur and maybe bear claws. The items that drop of these NPC mobs is not useless, NPC mobs and their spawns as well as dungeons are also resources that your guild may have access to. Players can craft any items, the differance between NPC items and player crafter ones may be different bonuses, but that does not render NPC items useless since none of the items are level based and GODLY.

Everything from Spawns NPC's and what they carry depending on the mob is still a resource; players will be competing over these and they will trade them.  Skill,  strategy and tactics come into play here more so then Items do; what good is a sword if you don't know how to weild it. There are no non essential drops or filler items like you see in other games, if it drops off a mob or a player crafts it then it can be used; the question is can you master the tactics that come into play with weilding the weapon. Items are there and they are apart of the Game, they compliment the Game play and add a sense of immersion to it they don't DOMINATE IT.

Originally posted by Isane

But that loot will be more than enough to Quest and Craft and PvE and slowly but surely , there will be no value or challenge to kill peopel doing these types of activity. Especially when you may have to walk for an hour just on the off chance you may find them..
 

That is what cities and ships are - activities that have much bigger risk/reward levels. High level PvE encounters might also need top level equipment. It is actually good that you can engage in relatively low-risk activities while still doing PvP - and the level of risk can be adjusted by each person individually.

The thing with equipment is self-regulating - the wealthier can afford to risk more and lose more with it meaning relatively little, while the poor can just use junk equipment and even winning few fights can make them wealthier.

After certain time, the small difference in character power due to higher tier eq will outweight the price. Imagine running 30 minutes looking for fight and then getting barelly killed because using junk eq... look at EvE, where people fly in faction battleships with faction fit that are just a little more powerfull than the ordinary ones, only the cost being bilions instead of 50m (when substracting insurance cost).

Originally posted by UbberGoober

If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?

 

 

Not every mob will have weapons and armor, A skeleton soldier will or a simmilar mob that carries them a bear for example wont have drops like that when you kill a bear you will ger fur and maybe bear claws. The items that drop of these NPC mobs is not useless, NPC mobs and their spawns as well as dungeons are also resources that your guild may have access to. Players can craft any items, the differance between NPC items and player crafter ones may be different bonuses, but that does not render NPC items useless since none of the items are level based and GODLY.

Everything from Spawns NPC's and what they carry depending on the mob is still a resource; players will be competing over these and they will trade them.  Skill,  strategy and tactics come into play here more so then Items do; what good is a sword if you don't know how to weild it. There are no non essential drops or filler items like you see in other games, if it drops off a mob or a player crafts it then it can be used; the question is can you master the tactics that come into play with weilding the weapon. Items are there and they are apart of the Game, they compliment the Game play and add a sense of immersion to it they don't DOMINATE IT.

you sound as if you have played this game for years. But in truth, nobody has played it. So you don't know how it will work. The only thing we have to go on is UO, since we played that game, and it had similar rules. And it was a failure and was gotten rid of.

So it was a total failure in UO, and Darkfall will do the same thing, and yet it will be a totall success this time? That makes no sense.

So keep dreaming you bizarre fantasises about how wonderful full looting will be. The truth will be much different.

[quote]Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.[/quote]

That's not true. Asheron's Call didn't die, and Darktide is the most populated server, which has FFA PvP and full looting.

I think good loot will exist in this game, it will just be difficult to hold on to. In AC, you drop the items with the highest value. In order to keep the items you use, you have to hunt for death items. This game is different because you will drop whatever you are wearing. So, you will need to keep backup equipment, and spend time getting more. While we don't know the details yet, expect very stat-based loot just as we are getting very stat-based character advancement.

Originally posted by Falconoffury

[quote]Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.[/quote]

That's not true. Asheron's Call didn't die, and Darktide is the most populated server, which has FFA PvP and full looting.

I

And how many people play on the Darktide server now? a couple hundred? Do you think Darkfall can survive with a couple hundred people ? No it can't.

you sound as if you have played this game for years. But in truth, nobody has played it. So you don't know how it will work. The only thing we have to go on is UO, since we played that game, and it had similar rules. And it was a failure and was gotten rid of.

So it was a total failure in UO, and Darkfall will do the same thing, and yet it will be a totall success this time? That makes no sense.

So keep dreaming you bizarre fantasises about how wonderful full looting will be. The truth will be much different.

UO did have simmilar rules, but it did not fail because of them it failed because they decided to change the rules on everyone and scrapped completely what worked; they had well over 100,000 subscribers and at the time they had a successful game until they completely decided to fuck everything up by removing accountability and making the entire game a carebearfest. This was at the time they decided to copy off Verant and EQ which sucked donkey balls, it was an item and level grind with safe zones and no accountability. Since there are no levels, and classes in DF and no Godly items I don't see this being a problem; items are there to complement the game and not dominate it this is how it should be and how it has to be if you want a player driven economy and crafting that works.

Originally posted by Mazer14

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Mazer14

 

I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you.

1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play.

Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.

 

If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.

 

 

Again, a baseless assumption. I wouldn't mind the option of a second account but paying an extra $15/mo or w/e it is for a game is out of the picture for me. I'm not gonna say some people aren't gonna do it, I just don't see it being the problem you're making it out to be.

Second, third, even fourth + accounts was the norm in SWG.

If they're really going to have a consequences system, the consequences have to infect not only the ganker, but also any player that trades with him.  Otherwise, it will be meaningless.

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Mazer14

That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements  in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.

I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.

 

UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all

 

Lineage II had the same consequences for Pkers and it worked quite well. In fact until WoW was released it was the second most popular MMO in the world...topped only by Lineage I which also had the same type of Karma/Alignment ruleset. Sure L2 was only partial loot but it still had the same type of PvP ruleset that Darkfall is proposing. No one, not even myself can say whether or not the alignment system in DF will work or not until we play the game. I guess we shall all see soon enough.

Edit: Oh and in Lineage II if you had bad Karma (Similar to Darkfall's Alignment) you had more chance of dropping more of your gear. This was cumulative so if you killed someone who had been PKing a lot you had a good chance of cleaning them out when they dropped.

Bren

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Mazer14

That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements  in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.

I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.

UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all

Lineage II had the same consequences for Pkers and it worked quite well. In fact until WoW was released it was the second most popular MMO in the world...topped only by Lineage I which also had the same type of Karma/Alignment ruleset. Sure L2 was only partial loot but it still had the same type of PvP ruleset that Darkfall is proposing. No one, not even myself can say whether or not the alignment system in DF will work or not until we play the game. I guess we shall all see soon enough.

Bren

Hi, Bren.  I retried Lin2 recently.  They changed some stuff.  I would say its more carebear.  It's not anymore FFA PvP... now there are protections and a lvl 60 dagger can run around killing lvls 10 anymore.  So it mutated too and still mutating too :(

I guess the consequences werent enough and it pushed the game into a more carebear environment.

Besides the penalties for been a PK in Lin2 werent from alignment.  You just become free meat, if you killed someone that didnt fight you back.  By free meat I meant you were flaged.

Now, for example, they made the penalties even more.  Now if you have more than 5 PK (I think its 5, cant remember) your chances of lossing gear is huge when you die.

In the other hand, I will add that it was partial loot (I think they change that too... now you hardly will drop anything unless you a PK) was simply because the game is sooooo gear focus that people wont be able to handle full looting in Lin2.

The written stuff of DF seem good to me in the sense that they should minimize the frustration when people dies.  For example, DF doesnt seem to be a gear centric game (which I think is key for a full loot system).  I have my hopes that the core design of DF will support the FFA and the full looting.

As you said we shall see soon.

Originally posted by rikilii

Originally posted by Mazer14

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Mazer14

 

I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you.

1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play.

Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.

 

If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.

 

 

Again, a baseless assumption. I wouldn't mind the option of a second account but paying an extra $15/mo or w/e it is for a game is out of the picture for me. I'm not gonna say some people aren't gonna do it, I just don't see it being the problem you're making it out to be.

 

Second, third, even fourth + accounts was the norm in SWG.

If they're really going to have a consequences system, the consequences have to infect not only the ganker, but also any player that trades with him.  Otherwise, it will be meaningless.

People paying for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th account ($150/year per extra account ) was the norm? I don't believe that for a second

But you do make a valid point, characters that trade with their own murderers should also face consequences. That's a good point to make.