Over the years I've attempted to engage Darkfall fans in conversations about the title.  Occassionally I would point out the missed Betas that "inside information" leaked dates somehow, or the ever changing quality of the screenshots, or my personal opinions on "Open PvP with Full Loot".

I've found that, although quite the interesting overall topic, having a conversation about Darkfall is proven quite difficult.  If you say anything even remotely negative, the knee-jerk of the fan is to refer to you as a Troll and be done with you... instead of actually debating the topic and showing anything.  Since I'm a skeptic of the game, this often led me to end up sighing at the thread I would reply in and moving on with life.

IRC is another place I would attempt to engage "friends" in conversations about Darkfall.  Normally people in my IRC channels approach Darkfall with a "wouldn't touch this topic with a 10 foot poll", in order to stay out of arguments that cause one Op or another to Kick-Ban a user.

...Darkfall is a topic almost as hard to talk about as Politics... that's pretty bad...

But last night I was talking to my friend while taking a break from working on my own MMO... and he had apparently just seen the trailer.

We talked for roughly 2 hours on the topic... and never once was the terms "Fanboi" or "Troll" used.  Instead, we analyzed each other's opinion and provided references where appropriate.  He respected, and agreed, with my video analysis of being able to recreate the shown portions of the game using Torque... never once did he call me a Troll about it though.  Disagreed, yes... troll no.  As the conversation progress, it became quite heated, but we both kept our respective "cool", and respected the view the other person took on the topic.  Nearing the end of my (elongated, 2 hour) break, I asked him about the Community.  As stated earlier, there's been quite a problem posting on Forums any remotely negative feedback about Darkfall, as apparently that makes you a troll (Keep in mind, I like Ryzom and still have some negative views on certain things about it... but it doesn't make me a troll).  His response?

"Yeah, the biggest problem is the evangelicals on both sides of the argument."

He was right!  The problem isn't that we have people who want to see the game and people who don't believe in it... the problem is that we have people who believe you're either one or the other.

Darkfall has become so set in a "Black and White" style community, that people fail to realize there's dozens of shades of grey in there.

"Being Objective does not mean you're being a Troll..."

Apparently he's been following Darkfall since 2005.

My whole point to this post is to ask the Darkfall Fans to be more considerate towards those who have an Objective Point of View, and have become skeptical.  Being either of those things does not make me (or anybody else) a Troll...

When you state that I'm a troll (vaportroll/etc), you're using a Ad_hominem, and giving up the argument without much of a fight.  When I'm wrong I admit it, and I always try to state that my posts are my personal objective opinion.

If the only response to an objective post is going to be the equivalent to calling the original poster "a poopoo head", there's no reason for anybody to post at all.

The DF section of this forum have becoma place for emotions and hate, and not so much fact and reason. When we got the video last friday, everything begun to change.

Right now we have nice posts to read, good topics to discuss, something i have never seen here before.

I agree with the OP. lets have fun and enjoy this place.  Not all people have the same gaming backgrouns, age or favourite game. We all are uniq, let it stay that way.

If you come into the Darkfall forum saying that the whole video was faked then what do you expect?  You just discredit yourself and leave yourself open to flaming.

Very good post here.

I think the reason why you will see fans of this game a little quick to sound the troll alarm is that the vast majority of naysayers in this forum are in fact trolling.  It is much more serious than in other forums, and it even mentions this in the guide sticky at the top.  People get frustrated by a continuous barrage of one liners after people try to make well thoughout posts, and the only response they get is "lol vaporware" or "you are stupid if you think this game exists.

Im not sure what MMO you are very interested in Caesar, maybe the only the one you are working on, but lets just say you are really hyped up about WAR.  What if your forum was constantly filled with the same people posting in every thread that the game you are exited about just doesn't exist and you are an idiot for following it. 

Im sure I have pulled the trigger a little fast at times, but after trying to ignore it for so long, it does make you a little more sensitive to who is just being skeptical with a legit opinion, and who is just trolling.

Im a big fan of the game, no doubt about it.  There are no other games I am interested in right now, but when I do get into WAR topics I always give my opinion in a constructive way but end that its just not for me.  In fact its not a great example because I never really put the game down since I think it will be great and successful, just not for me.

So while it is unfortunate that some legit skeptics get labeled trolls when they really arent trolling, you do have to appreciate the fact that it is very rare to get a non-fan on this forum that is giving his opinions objectively and in a non trolling manor.  So it gets easy to loop everyone together in one shot.

Edit: I think i remember one of your posts about DF in the general forums.  Where you were arguing with a fan about the possibility that the video was done in torque.  Yes that is a legit statement and I dont see much wrong with it.  But it is still kind of borderline in the sense that why make the comment?  I don't want to look the thread up, but either myself or another fan responded with asking you "isnt it possible that you are lying about your development experience to win an internet arguement.  The point was that no one really thinks you would do that, it doesnt make sense...so why point it out?   So why point out the possibility that this video was faked?  It just doesnt make any sense why they would do that, yet claim it was 100% in game footage etc.  So i can see how some could consider that trolling while it was something borderline,

actually, its not just darkfall, if you go through most threads it happens more often than not, which is a shame because some really good intelligent conversations get laid off to the wayside replaced by the bickering and insults.

Originally posted by psychorob68

actually, its not just darkfall, if you go through most threads it happens more often than not, which is a shame because some really good intelligent conversations get laid off to the wayside replaced by the bickering and insults.

Oh it happens with every game, but i dont think its much of a stretch to say DF gets it way worse.

If you look on the main page, this website when describing the latest DF video said something to the extent of "Here is the video for the sometimes controversial mmo called darkfall"  meaning it is obviously a little more dramatically debated than other mmos like WAR whos main trolling comes in the form of people just saying its a WoW clone.

That and like i pointed out earlier, the guide sticky at the top of the forum even makes a reference to how trolling is a little worse in this forum than elsewhere.

It became kind of the cool group think thing to do once DF followed a more unusual development cycle.  Instead of just leavin the game alone, people go out of their way to discredit anything a fan may say by saying "lol vapor"

CaesarsGhost -

I understand your point but you hold some responsibility as well.  You would not respect our point of view and would bash us as fanbois.   I agree both sides are at fault but dont act like all you have ever done is try to have a rational conversation about darkfall.   You have stated many times in different post that the game was fake/hoax and that they made all the screen shots with the Torque engine which is simply not true.

You are more then welcome to come join the conversation on what Darkfall has to offer but you cannot make claims without backing them up as you have done in the past.

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

Originally posted by Zekiah

"I'm a Darkfall Fanboi Troll... don't mind the game, hate the fanbois." - CaesarsGhost

Remember kids, when you point at people, three fingers are pointing right back at you.

 

 

I stand by, and reiterate, that statement.  I hate the people who fail to use an argument objectively and instead point and call names... not the actual argument itself.

Hate the people, debate the game... you don't have to like me to hear me out.  You don't have to hate me to reply.  What you SHOULD do is try to reply as you hate my opinions, not me... that makes for better conversations.

QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT QFT.

As for the topic, the word troll is thrown around here more than female celebreties adopt babies from third world countries.  People forget what it means, and it just becomes a word which means "Someone who doesn't agree with me"; which, in fact, has nothing to do with the definition of troll.

Myself, CG, Theo, Zorv, HBlite, and other naysayers have been called trolls countless times just for seeing a different view than the fans of the game.  Even after we give reasons to why we believe what we do, we are still called trolls.

Anyway best of luck on your MMO CG, although I thought you were working on an RPG shooter first?

There are shades of Grey in every argument if its taken you this long to come to this enlightenment not really sure what to say.  

On a side note Ryzom is a pretty cool game.

What a pretentious post. Your asking Darkfall fans to see your side when your bashing the game and point out everything that is negative about it? Do you not the time that you are wasting?  I mean if you don't like it then thats it. Don't flood the forums with shit posts like this asking for fans to be nice to you. What your goal? Is it to point out the very obvious flaws in Darkfall? I do not understand your incentive. Just say you don't like a game and move on.

Originally posted by c1c3r0

What a pretentious post. Your asking Darkfall fans to see your side when your bashing the game and point out everything that is negative about it? Do you not the time that you are wasting?  I mean if you don't like it then thats it. Don't flood the forums with shit posts like this asking for fans to be nice to you. What your goal? Is it to point out the very obvious flaws in Darkfall? I do not understand your incentive. Just say you don't like a game and move on.

Whats amazing here is that I'd much rather play a game with someone of HIS demeanor, rather than yours. 

The POINT in bringing up things you do not like about a game (or concept) is to see how many others agree, see what ways it can be altered to make you like it, and to see if there is enough support for it among the community to influence someone to make a change.

For instance...

If one does not like that absolutely LAZY approach Aventurine takes toward their community...they can talk about it and make a lot of noise.  If enough people agree, and make noise, then its likely they will revise their approach and make ammends....like say, through making a new video to show off.  Neat how that works, no?

You can sit here and SAY that dissenters need to move on....but, frankly, its not the fans a company needs to listen to.  Its the haters.  You've already won over a fan...you have their money in hand.  Its the hater you need to convert...to expand the business and be successful.  The dissenters need to speak even louder, and more often.  The fans need to temper their stupid ideals with better ideals that fit in the with the game they already enjoy. 

Both sides need to get over the fact that forums are a place for discussion, and no discussion can ever really occur in a situation where EVERYONE agrees on everything.

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by CaesarsGhost

Originally posted by Zekiah

"I'm a Darkfall Fanboi Troll... don't mind the game, hate the fanbois." - CaesarsGhost

Remember kids, when you point at people, three fingers are pointing right back at you.

 

 

I stand by, and reiterate, that statement.  I hate the people who fail to use an argument objectively and instead point and call names... not the actual argument itself.

Hate the people, debate the g