I like to do crafting / merchant type activites so I will be able to contribute anyway without grinding (in wow i had nearly 100k gold with no grinding at all, but nothing to spend it on).  I think it depends how you choose to play mmo's if you do a lot of grinding especially in sandbox, the only thing I will probably have to grind is some healing skills so I can do pvp if i want to which won't the all the time.       

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by downtoearth

it wont be a grind level wise . and you wont have to grind to go with people that have been playing for a while . quit a bit diffrent form level

 

Just because it's not level-wise doesn't mean it's not a grind.

.
 

who thinking it wont?
 

you still skill up even if you die level games you dont

Every MMO has some type of grind.

If we didn't like these grinds we would be playing a different genre.

Originally posted by HBlite

 

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Originally posted by Zekiah
I guess it would depend on each person's interpretation of "grinding".
I never ever felt like I was grinding in UO or SWG but I did get that feeling in WoW, AoC, and some others.
Sandbox games give you the freedom to do as you please so if you don't like what you're doing, don't do it. I'll take sandbox over the others any day, those feel like grinding to me.

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You weren't around for the Holo grind in SWG then were you? Officially was called a grind and hell it was a long one.

While you can choose to a point, you still can't avoid it. If you want to move anywhere in the game you will have to do it at one point.

So yes what mike states is exactly true. You can slow the grind down by doing other stuff or speed it up by going head on, that is the choices you have and only thus.

yea but the holo grind was optional.

i remember the days going out with a party of people killing monsters and harvesting materials and working our way through some faction to get prepared for a battle (need plenty of npcs) and the grind was so fun cause we were rolling dice and having fun joking around it didn't even seem like a real grind because we were all having fun. then when we got low health i'd build a camp and wed all sit down and relax and roll some dice for some credits and play some music together and dance around.

good times!

See a nice boat?

1. Kill the guy(s) that owns it.

2. Take the boat.

3. You now have a boat.

No grind involved.

You can change the word 'boat' into any other word you might want in the game. No grind.

There will merc guilds, there will be rogue guilds (no need for a clantown) and I'm sure there will be guilds that are so highly organised/roleplaying that they allow positions that involve no grind what so ever.

Originally posted by sandboxy

See a nice boat?

1. Kill the guy(s) that owns it.

2. Take the boat.

3. You now have a boat.

No grind involved.

You can change the word 'boat' into any other word you might want in the game. No grind.

There will merc guilds, there will be rogue guilds (no need for a clantown) and I'm sure there will be guilds that are so highly organised/roleplaying that they allow positions that involve no grind what so ever.

And there will be people killing the grinders and getting their loot.  :)  Farming the grinders will be fun.

Anyway, we will have to wait and see how all the guild "mega"  crafting system is.  We have no idea how much grind will it need.  And, so, how much advantage will huge guilds have against smaller ones (the trade off, as usual, imo will be the cohesion of small guilds vs the numbers of the big ones... where not everyone trust or know everyone).

It will be interesting just to explore how things work.

Originally posted by Keeper2000

And there will be people killing the grinders and getting their loot.  :)  Farming the grinders will be fun.

 

I hope your clan is not planning to base your economy on that, because you'll be one poor clan. Crafters and the like will flock to guilds that can offer them protection in exchange for their goods, once they've been properly gangbanged few times.

No, I seriously doubt crafters will be easy prey in this game.

Originally posted by sandboxy

Originally posted by Keeper2000

And there will be people killing the grinders and getting their loot.  :)  Farming the grinders will be fun.

 

 

I hope your clan is not planning to base your economy on that, because you'll be one poor clan. Crafters and the like will flock to guilds that can offer them protection in exchange for their goods, once they've been properly gangbanged few times.

No, I seriously doubt crafters will be easy prey in this game.

We will see.  The people coming with me to DF are former UO players so most probably we will have no economy in the guild and just kill people around.

But your analysis about protection for crafting... is interesting... we will see how all works... I forsee a lot of drama in so many places in this game that will be great LOL

And dont confuss crafters with gathering.  The OP was talking about grinding (gathering) stuff.  I suppose (because until we play the game, no one knows anything) that you will have to get materials.  If I need wolf pelts and go to where the wolves are and I see a person killing them... I may decide to gank the person and check it that person has what I need.  Yes... it's part of the game.

Of course, the decision of ganking that person will not be a light one.  Is he an enemy?  Will killing that person be a problem for guid relationships?  Etc. etc. etc.

But if you are saying that guilds will patrol the places where the materials are (for example, patrol while they kill the wolves)... well... they may do it or not.

But I do understand your point and I think that will happen.  There will be group of people (maybe entire guilds) dedicated to sell protection and others will go around gang banging everyone hehehe

In the end, as you said, we can try to get the ship... which is not different that someone trying to get the pack of whoever was killing the wolves, isnt it?  hehehe ;)

After all... this is freedom... we can do anything (as long as we are prepear to face the concequences of our actions hehe).

Let the ganking beging!!!

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by daarco

Then thanks god for player freedom.

You can grind as much as you want to. Or not! Just choose how much you want to...sandbox you know!

 

What he said.

 

How exactly do you choose?

You're recruited in a guild.  They are getting prepared for a huge battle, but you think you can choose whether or not you help them get prepared?  You'll help patrrol the land (standing in the same spot over and over) or harvest material (grind) or mabye craft some nails (grind) or even kill some monsters for a rare material (more grind!).

You're in a guild; I'm sure you're preparing to build cities, boats, etc.  To do so, you'll need the help of everyone in your guild...which means everyone will end up grinding.

 

By your defintiion everything you do in game = grinding

What makes a game, not a grindfest, is the ability to do many different activities.  Now I realise WoW has crafting and fishing, but in reality all that crafting, fishing and cooking is all for one purpose.  End game raiding.  At least with Darkfall, all activities are useful in some way to "other" people not just yourself.

So you have to help patrol.  Could turn out to be nothing or it may you run into an enemy scout party, or the main advance.  Is securing a monster spawn in the guild territory such a bad gig.  Sure its PvE but what game doesn't have a bit of PvE.  Only miners will be mining and only crafters will be crafting, so if you not either then why worry.  Im sure combat characters will still be invovlved in guarding operations and overland transport.  Besides crafting nails with guild iron, sounds like free skill points to me.

There are plenty of other things to do.  Try to start an in game buisness.  Decorate your house.  Start a wardrobe.  Be a pirate.  Rob miners. Spy on the enemy. etc. etc.

The idea is to make so many opputunities to do different activities, that it doesn't "feel" like a grind.

What would your definition of not grinding be.

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by daarco

Then thanks god for player freedom.

You can grind as much as you want to. Or not! Just choose how much you want to...sandbox you know!

 

What he said.

 

How exactly do you choose?

You're recruited in a guild.  They are getting prepared for a huge battle, but you think you can choose whether or not you help them get prepared?  You'll help patrrol the land (standing in the same spot over and over) or harvest material (grind) or mabye craft some nails (grind) or even kill some monsters for a rare material (more grind!).

You're in a guild; I'm sure you're preparing to build cities, boats, etc.  To do so, you'll need the help of everyone in your guild...which means everyone will end up grinding.

 

 This isnt called grinding, but "playing the game" which should also be fun. The point with grinding is that You have to do it to get to "end game". In DF the way to End Game is short and you can participate in whatever you want, cause you're not divided by levels
 

Once there was an alchemist that grinded happily materials for his craft. A team of gankers killed him and stole his hard earned items. The alchemist proceeded to grind again the materials though, he went to the only close town that was there and with the cash he had collected drained the local economy from all potion items. After that he replaced them with his very own "healing potions" that were in fact high potency poisons.

The happy ganker squad returned to the city proud of their accomplisments to restock in items and potions

2 hours later the happy alchemist was looting their bodies and getting back his items, after his crafted poisons did their thing.

And that's why grind isn't always that bad :P

Originally posted by mike470

You're sorely mistaken. If everyone here actually knows what it is like to play a sandbox, you should know that it ends up being a grind; same -should- go for DF. 

Look at the boats, can you imagine the amount of time it would take to make them?: 

Nails:  Like any good ship, you will need sturdy nails.  This involves going to a mine and mining all of the ore.  Then you take it to a fire and smelt the ore.  After this you find a blacksmith and tell him to make hundreds of nails for your boat. 

Planks:  First you will have to cut a lot of trees down to get the logs.  After this, you go to a carpenter and tell him to make you hundreds of planks.  Then, after waiting for him to do this, you then use the nail and plank with the boat. 

Architecture:  You will need to have a pretty high amount of skill to create the plans for a huge boat like the ones that were in the video.

Same thing goes with player made cities, the weapons, the armour, and even those weird floaty things that attacked that one village; it will take a lot of manpower to make these things.

Now, don't get me wrong, I like this.  I am just saying that DF is going to be a huge grind which will make it challenging for casuals to play.

Mike there are two different types of grinding.  Grinding as in playing any MMO and level grinding.

A MMO is a grind, it will always be a grind, ALWAYS.  EVERY MMO is a grind, it is a timesink.  That is the point of a MMO after all. 

Then there is "the grind".  This grind has to do with what you are talking about.  Skilling up and crafting will be grinds but in a sandbox MMO, the grind is hidden with player freedom. 

In Darkfall. Want to do some crafting, sweet go craft.  Sick of the crafting grind, go out hunting with is skill grinding, dont want to go out hunting.  Cool go out exploring, dont want to explore, okay go do anything else.  Remember in Darkfall if you choose you can just find a guy cutting down tree's and steal his wood, which is not a grind.  Darkfall will allow the player to choose how much grinding they do....Yes its a grind but because of the freedom to the players that grind is hidden.

In linar based games, YOU HAVE to do the level grind, in a sandbox MMO you do not have to do anything you do not want to do because you have the choice to do anything.  I am willing to bet that there will be players in Darkfall that hardly ever leave their crafting area, they just pay for supplies they need from passers by.   Yes they are doing the Crafting "grind" but that is the area of the game they like but they do not like the skill grind or the gathering grind, so they choose not to do those grinds.

Games like Vanguard that force the player to do the gathering grind as well as the crafting grind because some things are not tradable.  Darkfall everything is tradable.  In Darkfall you have total freedom to choose which grinds you take part in.  Everyone has a grind they enjoy, for some its leveling, for some its crafting, for some its gathering, for some its exploreing, for some its PK. 

Yes Darkfall will have a gr