Originally posted by Freemasons

Can anyone else feel Darkfall slowly twirling down the toilet?

 

It was sat on the rim for a few years first.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Freemasons

so wait a second , Tasos's real name is Anastasias "Tasos" Flampouras ??

not Tasos flambouras?

Yes, Anastasios Flampouras, obviously Tasos.

You can see their full and correct names on the documents I have linked too, of course I’m presuming they actually used there real full and correct names on these legal documents but decided not to for a more informal impression when promoting and marketing Darkfall.

The change between p and b might be language differences, or a typo.

If you look at the response given to me by the GameWorld editor over at youtube, you'll see he used "Flampouras" as well.

Originally posted by Polarization

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnIv3YnHuVQ

Zorvan said

Hey Mr. GameWorldGR. Can you tell us if the blatant lies involving Tasos past work experience at the conference were in fact told verbatim from information provided by Tasos, or was the magazine really so ignorant as to "misquote" his entire history, as Tasos would have everyone believe. Tasos says it's all your fault. Is it?

Tasos Flampouras told me to fix a single world about his POSITION in Aventurine. Nothing more, nothing less. All other information provided by GameWorld is correct and Tasos agrees with that as we received a second e-mail to confirm these information.
 

Claus Grovdal claimed that Razorwax was founded by him Kjetil and Ricki in 2000 ostensibly to develop Darkfall.

Who appears to of started Vaagen Asset Managment ASA in 2007, and is currently its general manager.

http://www.1881.no/Roller/Vaagen+Asset+Management+ASA_E107981984/

Originally posted by Zorvan

If you look at the response given to me by the GameWorld editor over at youtube, you'll see he used "Flampouras" as well.
 

Tasos is Greek is he not? There may be different methods of converting a Greek name into English. They don't use the same letters we do you know.

Leif Tore Sætermoen

Proebely Chief Investmant Officer for this IT services company

http://www.sogeti.no/templates/Sogeti_LokalStartsida____2064.aspx

These people and this change in management was probably made because these people themselves or the company's they represented invested in Razorwax, Razorwax was registered as a gambling / bingo / sweepstakes service’s company.

At the same time Claus Hågensen Grøvdal was changed to Executive Director

Wow, Polarization!  You finally killed it, man!  This is better than a mystery novel!

Most of us old former followers of this game just moved the f--- on years ago, figuring the game would eventually fade into oblivion and nobody would ever find out what the f--- was going on with it.  It was enough to know that it was vaporware built upon a massive pile of lies.

But you finally took it to a whole new level, man, this is amazing stuff.  You should be a private eye.  I'm serious.  You obviously have a great nose for ferreting stuff out, are stubborn as hell, and an analytical nature. 

People think it doesn't matter, but look at all these fanbois even on this board, who have wasted so much time and energy on this barrel of lies.  They are the suckers, and the ones who aren't completely retarded deserve a bit of justice to have the liar's game exposed.  So in my eyes you have done more than a few good deeds here.

The one sad thing is once the fan boys disappear this board won't be good for any more laughs.  Oh well.

I've a suspicion of what user you were from the official forums.  And I'm sure if I were you I could find out for sure whether I'm right or not.  But I'm not, and it doesn't really matter, anyways... just keep up the great work man!  This is one of the most awesome threads I have ever read on a forum.  And I've read hundreds of thousands of em.

Originally posted by SuperCrap

Wow, Polarization!  You finally killed it, man!  This is better than a mystery novel!

I think its a bit premature to declare it dead yet, but its certainly laying impotent on the ground whimpering and twitching under a tirade of kicks and punch’s.

Most of us old former followers of this game just moved the f--- on years ago, figuring the game would eventually fade into oblivion and nobody would ever find out what the f--- was going on with it.  It was enough to know that it was vaporware built upon a massive pile of lies.

I did the same after the 2^nd canceled beta in 2005, but I got drawn back in last year after that ridiculous Article about Asp’s visit, and I finally wanted to see it end or at least help it alone the way.

But you finally took it to a whole new level, man, this is amazing stuff.  You should be a private eye.  I'm serious.  You obviously have a great nose for ferreting stuff out, are stubborn as hell, and an analytical nature. 

Well If anyone’s reading this who can offer me a job then their welcome to send me an email, its all surprisingly easy to find, what takes the time is analyzing it to see what’s relevant and making posts about it, and then defending myself when I get personally attacked and insulted for doing so.

People think it doesn't matter, but look at all these fanbois even on this board, who have wasted so much time and energy on this barrel of lies.  They are the suckers, and the ones who aren't completely retarded deserve a bit of justice to have the liar's game exposed.  So in my eyes you have done more than a few good deeds here.

I don’t think there will be a final or substantial irrefutable disclosure till the developers release the game or cancel it or just stop communicating for an extended period of time, but hopefully this information will give a strong indication of what we can expect from Darkfall if it ever is released.

The one sad thing is once the fan boys disappear this board won't be good for any more laughs.  Oh well.

There have ways been MMO developers making promises they cant keep and supporters believing those lies, and I don’t think this will stop anytime soon, unless we as a community of consumers stop accepting it as common industry practice, but its human nature and ignorance that makes it possible, so its’ probably never going to change.

I've a suspicion of what user you were from the official forums.  And I'm sure if I were you I could find out for sure whether I'm right or not.  But I'm not, and it doesn't really matter, anyways... just keep up the great work man!  This is one of the most awesome threads I have ever read on a forum.  And I've read hundreds of thousands of em.

As I said I stopped posting on the official forums in 2005, I cant even remember my username or password, I was a constructive and positive member I did not make critical or negative posts, I just simply left after the 2^nd beta failed to start.

 

Haha, I was a constructive and positive member..... except when the devs were lying to everyone.  Which turned out pretty quickly to be most of the time....  

For some reason back in 2001, 2002, 2003 the "Darkfall" idea really seemed possible.  And now for some reason it doesn't.  Kind of sad when you think about it.  I believe there is still a tremendous unrealized potential in the MMORPG genre, and projects like "Darkfall" really hurt that potential a lot.  They close up people's minds so they forget what is possible.  Not only I think among gamers, but surely among developers too.  Projects like Darkfall give a taint to the ideas behind the game, the ideas that generated such great hype in the first place.  As if they are only pie in the sky.

Some of the technical things might be pie in the sky, but the concept of an MMORPG with profound player freedom of action, intelligence and skill in the gameplay, and no mindless grind... is very much possible, and I still believe would be quite popular if executed well.

EDIT:  I still can't get over how they changed stuff on their linked-in profiles based on this page.  Wow!  Talk about putting the feet to the fire.  Who could have known how keenly that pen prick on a random Internet message board would be felt, heh.

6 months later Benjamin Cabarrubias Bye who was Razorwax’s executive director at its founding appears to no longer involved in the company.

Originally posted by SuperCrap

Haha, I was a constructive and positive member..... except when the devs were lying to everyone.  Which turned out pretty quickly to be most of the time....  

 

For some reason back in 2001, 2002, 2003 the "Darkfall" idea really seemed possible.  And now for some reason it doesn't.  Kind of sad when you think about it.  I believe there is still a tremendous unrealized potential in the MMORPG genre, and projects like "Darkfall" really hurt that potential a lot.  They close up people's minds so they forget what is possible.  Not only I think among gamers, but surely among developers too.  Projects like Darkfall give a taint to the ideas behind the game, the ideas that generated such great hype in the first place.  As if they are only pie in the sky.

 

Some of the technical things might be pie in the sky, but the concept of an MMORPG with profound player freedom of action, intelligence and skill in the gameplay, and no mindless grind... is very much possible, and I still believe would be quite popular if executed well.

 

EDIT:  I still can't get over how they changed stuff on their linked-in profiles based on this page.  Wow!  Talk about putting the feet to the fire.  Who could have known how keenly that pen prick on a random Internet message board would be felt, heh.

Just because I made constructive and positive posts did not mean I didn’t always have misgivings about the project, or that I was not skeptical, I was just willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for the first 4 or 5 years.

These are some of the people who are listed on the board of Razorwax who invested in it, that we actually know the amount of money they lost when Razorwax “moved” to Greece, after they where convinced to invest in it.

http://www.anvilsociety.com/wax/intermedia.htm

http://www.anvilsociety.com/wax/trondheier.htm

I would like to know how much money Benjamin Cabarrubias Bye the founding executive director of Razorwax, and Erling Skjalgsson one of its Chairman possibly invested and also might of lost when Razorwax “moved” development to Aventurine.

Very interesting info in these threads, Polar.  I really appreciate you sharing it with us. 

I am going to have to take my own advice.  I have been saying others should lower expecations...now I wonder if even my own were too high. 

Originally posted by SuperCrap

For some reason back in 2001, 2002, 2003 the "Darkfall" idea really seemed possible.  And now for some reason it doesn't.  Kind of sad when you think about it.  I believe there is still a tremendous unrealized potential in the MMORPG genre, and projects like "Darkfall" really hurt that potential a lot. 

I don't think it'll hurt interest in this type of game. All of us, down to the utmost total hater, began watching Darkfall because of the features it offered. This game could work and could make millions for a competent and honest developer. Unfortunately, Darkfall will not be that game, as we all know it's developer is neither of those things.

What most need to realize, especially the diehard "fanbois", is that the success of this type of game in the market depends on the scammer asshat "developers" being exposed and removed from the scene, so real developers who see the interest in the game can come in and make it.

For every scammer/fraud developer we as gamers remove, that's just an improvement on the company which ends up taking this type of game serious. Like in any other product environment, you weed out the snake oil salesmen to let the real guys shine.

There will be a game like Darkfall, of this I have no doubt. But it will not be by Razorwax/Aventurine/whatever name they choose next.

Very interesting info, and great work Polar.  Hey, if you have some free time, I think maybe your skills could be used to look deeper into EA/Mythic and WAR.  

Originally posted by Zorvan

I don't think it'll hurt interest in this type of game.

Not in playing it, surely, but it will hurt interest to invest in this type of game. While as a dev you might be very enthusiastic about a concept, it's hard to sell it to an investor only interested in the bottom line if all of its previous examples have been failures, and the more examples the harder it is to argue that there isn't any correlation between the base concept and all its past failures.

Originally posted by Silvarch

Originally posted by Zorvan

I don't think it'll hurt interest in this type of game.

Not in playing it, surely, but it will hurt interest to invest in this type of game. While as a dev you might be very enthusiastic about a concept, it's hard to sell it to an investor only interested in the bottom line if all of its previous examples have been failures, and the more examples the harder it is to argue that there isn't any correlation between the base concept and all its past failures.

But you have to consider who Tasos/Aventurine targeted for investing. Small, no-name companies and single individuals. Companies and people who probably didn't have the knowledge of gaming and what a developer should be bringing to the table when asking for investments. People who could be easily blinded by "big returns".

This is why they didn't go to SOE, Mythic, Codemasters, etc.,etc. and get funded. Not because the game idea was bad, but because those companies know what to look for and would have smelled the burn a 100 miles away.

Edit: Doesn't this make alot more sense now? Instead of "We turned all the big boys down"?

And why do you think not one of these "big boys" ever admitted that Aventurine approached them? Because Aventurine didn't.

This is exactly what Colton Burgess did with Thrones of Chaos ( Mourning ). Found no-name individual investors while he hawked screenshots and a "tech demo" of the game before running with the money.

Er, I was talking about legitimate enterprises. Of course it wouldn't deter potential scammers from getting money from ignorant investors, if anything it would encourage them.

Originally posted by Silvarch

Er, I was talking about legitimate enterprises. Of course it wouldn't deter potential scammers from getting money from ignorant investors, if anything it would encourage them.

Which was my point above. A real developer with the same game idea, but with nothing to hide, could and would be able to approach those big boys even after this fiasco and have a very good chance of getting the funding and support needed to make the game.

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by Silvarch

Er, I was talking about legitimate enterprises. Of course it wouldn't deter potential scammers from getting money from ignorant investors, if anything it would encourage them.

 

Which was my point above. A real developer with the same game idea, but with nothing to hide, could and would be able to approach those big boys even after this fiasco and have a very good chance of getting the funding and support needed to make the game.

I disagree. It goes against market trends and has a poor track record to boot. Another failure would just worsen the record regardless of where funding for that came. Were it so easy and in so much demand we would've seen an attempt by far more known and experienced devs already.

Originally posted by Zorvan

But you have to consider who Tasos/Aventurine targeted for investing. Small, no-name companies and single individuals. Companies and people who probably didn't have the knowledge of gaming and what a developer should be bringing to the table when asking for investments. People who could be easily blinded by "big returns".

This is why they didn't go to SOE, Mythic, Codemasters, etc.,etc. and get funded. Not because the game idea was bad, but because those companies know what to look for and would have smelled the burn a 100 miles away.

And I think the same thing happened to the other people that seem to of been involved with Razorwax before it “merged” with and created Aventurine after failing to show their investors anything after 2 years.

This is exactly what happened to Trond Hier, and Simon Yuen’s half a million dollars.

The last group to have joined his list of projects were the four game developers that banded together under the name of Razorwax. This summer they to Yuen with a thick presentation of their idea for a game - a game they think could be a worldwide success in a few years.

"It was the enthusiasm that convinced us", says Trond Heier. "We do admit that we know very little about this kind of business, but these boys are so good and convincing that we chose to bet on them. They have a huge competence, much stamina and are willing to recieve a lower salary than other places", says Heier.

Yuens gut feeling: Despite the fact that Intermedia Invenst already has six demanding groups in the briefcase, they squeezed Razorwax in this summer. "I didn't really want to, becuase we have a small capacity, but Yuen convinced me." Heier smiles broadly and continues to explain that the eagerness from the developers has spread across the office. The developers get mediocre pay and equipment from Intermedia Invest who has also hired Tore Sætermoen from Cap Gemini to bring structure to the project. For the risky first six months with startup costs, Yuen will recieve 20% from the company.

But even though the risk that a million-dollar investment flopping is high, the potential profit is even higher. Forrester Research claims that online games will be over 234 billion (Norweigian kroner) in 2005, so even a small success for Darkfall could mean major income. - Now we have given them time until new Years and after that we may see something from them that is interesting for other investors.
 

Jade El Mehdawi appears to own lots of horses, listed on this Belgium website, obviously somebody of considerable means.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=+site:www.equibel.be++Jade+El+Mehdawi&hl=en&filter=0

http://www.equibel.be/general/horses_detail.php?horse=131848

The investigation continues…

Another Darkfall developer of limited experience, who does not seem to of spent much time actually developing Darkfall in 2004.

Owner, net-tomorrow.com

Greece

Past

Education

Private

*Edit it was for 10 months

NOVEMBER 2006 TO AUGUST 2007: DARKFALL, online multi player role playing video game
Work place: Aventurine, Athens, Greece, http://www.aventurine.gr/ .
Position: 3d character animator.
Tasks: animated humanoid and 4 legged creatures, skinned characters, animated particles for explosions.
Softwares used: 3dsMax 8 and especially the Character Studio part, XSI 6.
Client: Darkfall’s game publisher, game sold worldwide (see http://www.darkfallonline.com/ ).

Independent Entertainment Professional

Brest Area, France

Current

Past

3d character animator and 3d generalist, having worked in various places.

XSI, character animation.

Yet another freelance 3D artist who worked on Aventurine at some time in the past.

Private

Good stuff man, slowly, but surely we are unvealing Aventurine's true form.It seems to me like these guys sold the idea of DF, then got started on the game, and were tremendously overwhelmed by reality of game development, bunch of rookies.Would explain a lot of things.

It also reassures me that this game is indeed never coming out, or if it is it'll be DnL2.0