The other article was based soley on computer games.

This one includes tech hardware and software. Different bracket, and much harder to crack the Top 10. I remember being outraged last time because Darkfall did not hit No. 2 in all-time vapourware titles... but I can't be upset by a No. 15 (tied?) on this list. Most of the Top 10 'hardware' items will never, ever release, and everyone knows it, compared to DNF and DF, who still think hope to release some day.

It's only been 7 years. No need to rush DF out the door. Give 'em another 5 years, and maybe DF fans will start getting a little anxious.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

 

Originally posted by Polarization

 

 

 

This is all part of Aventurines supposed master plan to promote their game purely by word of mouth, as we can all see its working wonderfully.

Being sarcastic about this  don't help Aventurine either.

If I’m being sarcastic then what are the many people who genuinely argue that Aventurines marketing strategy is based on successfully promoting the game by word of mouth being?

Mentioning this as "purely" plan is plain wrong and misleading. 

Yes your right I apologize, they did run that google Adwords campaign for a couple of weeks last year.

 "word of mouth" will play his role if the game is released.  

Looks like its already begun playing its role.

Personally  i am thinking its one of the best plans to building and  base  a community   upon.

Looks like the developers of Darkfall appear to agree with you, whether or not it is the best plan for building a community remains to be seen, but it certainly appears to be having the opposite effect at the moment in my opinion.

The strong moments of this is just  after release and not before release.

Perhaps someone should tell Aventurine that.

 

Polarization personally i think you one of the smartest critics here and often you have a point. But your points are always halfway true.You seem to forget often the other half  that gives aventurine right in what they doing.

Sure Marketing strategy  could be more professional, could include more "glasnost" and shine but often you have to make compromise. For example they could have an intern strategy for low budget marketing and high budget on development till their product gets sold and then they increase  their marketing budget and be more present  and "professional" in that field too.

Till then the work of  Tasos has to be sufficing, not superb but sufficing till release.

You never know if that what you produce will be a blockbuster. There is a big list of  failures the last time. So for me it is more honest   to promote the game if its ready.

Why is it so hard to believe that Aventurine, as a small company  who maybe fights every day  for to survive AND try btw to develop a game that finally satisfy  a group of   gamer who  being ignored by the mainstream  and the big companies,  has to make compromise when it comes to marketing strategy.

personally i admit. I am not sure  about the final quality. But i try  to support these guys the  best i can   because  the mainstream and the "big professional  companies"  just ignores me and my playstyle preferences. If DF team finally disappoint me well at least i have to  thank them for the try.

The writing is on the wall.  Some people are just illiterate.

Even if the game were in development 5 years instead of 7, they should still have a boatload more to show us by now.  Personally, I don't care if other people believe the game is coming out or not.  Until they can prove to me that their game is more than a pipe dream, I'm going to consider it just that. 

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

 

Polarization personally i think you one of the smartest critics here and often you have a point. But your points are always halfway true.You seem to forget often the other half  that gives aventurine right in what they doing.

 

Its irrelevant if myself or if anyone else is halfway true or completely false when they are skeptical or critical of Aventurine and its actions, what matters is that the developers of Darkfall have so far failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that any of the majority of there own claims are true so far.

If I wasn’t aware of the potential or possibility of Darkfall or its developers then I would not still be interested in the concept or of followed its development (or lack of) for so many years ,no matter how critical or skeptical I might appear to be and no matter how increasingly unlikely I believe in the possibility of there capacity to fully realize that potential.

Sure Marketing strategy  could be more professional, could include more "glasnost" and shine but often you have to make compromise. For example they could have an intern strategy for low budget marketing and high budget on development till their product gets sold and then they increase  their marketing budget and be more present  and "professional" in that field too.

Unfortunately for the majority of all successfully launched MMO’s the marketing strategy is the other way round, hype before launch not after.

Its just common sense, you try to get people interested and paying for your game before it launches, you don’t launch a game and then try to get people interested and paying for your game.

If they have a feature complete MMO in beta there is no reasonable explanation for why they are not promoting it this close to release, so we either entertain optimistic and elaborate explanations or justifications as to why they are not or resort to cynicisms and skepticism.

Till then the work of  Tasos has to be sufficing, not superb but sufficing till release.

I’m sorry I cant agree with that at all, 7 months from release the promotion and advertisement for this game is pathetic and very unprofessional in my opinion so far  even for a small independent developer with a limited budget.

You never know if that what you produce will be a blockbuster. There is a big list of  failures the last time. So for me it is more honest   to promote the game if its ready.

The developers have already told us the game is feature complete, in beta and are constantly telling us how great it is and that it will launch this year, sounds like its ready to promote by the developers own admission and by any of the normal standards within the industry.

Why is it so hard to believe that Aventurine, as a small company  who maybe fights every day  for to survive AND try btw to develop a game that finally satisfy  a group of   gamer who  being ignored by the mainstream  and the big companies,  has to make compromise when it comes to marketing strategy.

I’m sorry but your attempts at making an appeal to me to empathize with the poor downtrodden hard working developers falls on deaf ears after so many years of broken promises and failed expectations, until they finally start proving there claims by showing there game I will no longer give them the benefit of the doubt.

“Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me”

And I fail to see how any of that is adequate justification for there apparent inability or unwillingness to demonstrate there feature complete beta game that they keep assuring us is so revolutionary.

There’s no reason for a compromise to be made no matter how limited there budget when there easiest and most potent marketing strategy would be to simply start demonstrating the game threw any or all of the easily available outlets at very insignificant cost to themselves.

personally i admit. I am not sure  about the final quality. But i try  to support these guys the  best i can   because  the mainstream and the "big professional  companies"  just ignores me and my playstyle preferences. If DF team finally disappoint me well at least i have to  thank them for the try.

 I don’t think many people will feel like thanking the developers if they find out they have been wasting there time for over 7 years myself included, nor do I agree that Aventurine automatically warrants support just because they are not a mainstream company or that they are professing to cater to certain play style preferences.

They should earn that support by demonstrating it is justified by proving there claims and behave professionally by treating there community with respect, until they start doing so I will no longer support them.

I also contend that no matter how much you or any number of people attempt to support or defend Aventurine it will never be able to absolve the colossally bad reputation that the developers have formed for themselves over the years.

The only people who can remidy the situation are the developers themselves.

 

I guess vapourware comparisons to Duke Nukem Forever are inevitable. But Duke Nukem Forever is still KING.

Duke Nukem - June 1991... Duke Nukem II - November 1993... Duke Nukem 3D - Jan. 1996... Duke Nukem Forever - 1998... um, er... oops? What's a decade, give or take a few years? And Darkfall fans thought they had it bad waiting a measly 7 years. lol.

PC Gamer gave DNF a 10-page preview in November 1997. 10 freakin pages!

Some interesting factoids (useless info) that you might not be aware of:

1. 3D Realms started with its own engine, but switched in '97 to the Quake II licence because the Prey engine "would have delayed release until late 1998, around the same time as Prey itself." 3D Realms considered using the Unreal engine, but rejected it because it wasn't ready, and Quake ii was...

"When we're done, you won't even care that it's the Quake II engine anymore," said George Broussard, president of 3D Realms.

(LOL! In hindsight, we know that Prey didn't actually release in 1998... it slipped to 2006!)

2. 3D Realms would not reveal much 'backstory.'

"I often think some people give out too much information on their games, so then there is nothing left to discover as you play," said Broussard.

(Darkfall devs obviously went to the same dev school as 3D Realms' Broussard, eh?)

4. So when's it coming out?

"3D Realms won't commit to anything more definite than a mid-to-late '98 timeframe or, even less specifically, 'when it's done.' In the meantime, it's highly likely that the game will get its first live showing at E3 in Atlanta next May."

"Broussard, 3D Realms, and the Duke 4 team are promising a lot, but their track record has already shown that they can deliver -- they have the technology, the experience, and the work ethic to pound away on this thing until it's done right. They know their character, know this genre, and know its audience, and we'd be surprised if they didn't get it right. We're not fortune tellers, but we have every confidence that Duke Nukem Forever will be one of the biggest -- and perhaps the best -- titles of 1998.

I guess it didn't work out for 3D Realms.... we'll see if Darkfall some day takes over as the NEW KING@!!!!

I dont care what list DF is on, most anticipated or most likely vaporware. I just want to play it.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence

Ah yea, Darkfall Vs Duke Nukem 2 titans battling for the vaporware title. Who will win ?

Originally posted by xxpigxx

Absence of proof is not proof of absence

Further, the reasonable folks are not trying to prove a negative. We want Aventurine to validate their claims. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

 

Originally posted by xxpigxx

Absence of proof is not proof of absence

True!  But your statement is not an accurate reflection of this situation.  The proof is not absent, it is being withheld.  For better or worse, Aventurine has the proof, yet refuses to share it.

 

Further, the reasonable folks are not trying to prove a negative. We want Aventurine to validate their claims. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Indeed. And you will have your proof when you test the game. For free even.

Originally posted by Xris375

Originally posted by Theodgrim

 

Originally posted by xxpigxx

Absence of proof is not proof of absence

True!  But your statement is not an accurate reflection of this situation.  The proof is not absent, it is being withheld.  For better or worse, Aventurine has the proof, yet refuses to share it.

 

Further, the reasonable folks are not trying to prove a negative. We want Aventurine to validate their claims. 

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Indeed. And you will have your proof when you test the game. For free even.

Still waiting on my invite to the Clan Beta of 2005, so you will pardon me if I dont count the chickens before they hatch...maybe I will get to test the game, and it might be free.