Darkfall Forum » General Discussion » Is this game legit?

Originally posted by Scubiedude

Like I said,from what I have read on this forum there is alot of conflictingting information .Good and Bad.It is hard to know what to believe.

See OP, even after 5 more pages of debate, I'll bet you aren't any clearer on what to believe than you were reading the other threads.

It all boils down to a matter of faith really, as hard evidence is circumstantial and incomplete at this point at time. Sure, you can find links to this and that, but none of it really proves beyond a shadow of a doubt whether Darkfall will ever be released, never mind released in the state that the developers promised us.

But in theory, we won't have much longer to wait. Tasos promised us a release before the end of 2008 (and we all know Aventurine/Razorwax never breaks their promises  )

What I hope will happen is the game will actually be released by years end, because I for one would love to give it a try.

What I think will happen (yes, I know, speculation on my part) is that the date will come and go, and we'll go through 2009 once again debating the existence of DF with a whole new set of supporters who will magically create new accounts to prop up the game.

Originally posted by Waterlily

No one knows if it's legit.

The problems start when you try to find games these people have made before, you will find NONE.

That's because they're a new company, just like Mythic was before they made Dark Age of Camelot.

When you try to find any other games anyone designing this game have worked on, you will find NONE.

You've personally checked into the backround of all the developers and found nothing? Prove it.

Here's one. http://www.henningludvigsen.com/wordpress/?page_id=8

When you try to find a business or publisher who has ever supported this game or company, you will find NONE.

Wrong again. Nice try. They have a very old, wealthy and well respected publisher. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=58541&highlight=publisher

When you try to find out the building they supposidly work in, you will find 0 pictures of them at work.

What?! Are you serious? You're complaining about not having a picture of their office? You've got to be joking. That's just sad and pathetic. Wasn't there a huge google Earth thread of Hashbrick trying to find their office, making an idiot of himself because he forgot to translate avenue?Well, here they are. http://www.moondawn.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=48

No one seems to have played a closed beta.

Wrong. The people who have visited the office in Greece have played and commented on it, but of course people like you will just say its all fake, cause you want to troll. Ahhh I see who you are now. Waterlilly, you never have anything good to say despite all the evidence that gets stacked against you. My troll radar should have gone off right away.

No real gameplay video's, just some video's that anyone could have made that just show some simple landscapes.

There are about 4-5 videos. One showing combat and large battles. The other showing all the landscapes and systems in place. Another one showing mounts. There are also 500 other screenshots at least. Nice try.

 

7 years in development.

About 4 1/2 - 5 actually.

Designers have other jobs besides working for darkfall.

 A few artists do. But you know what is listed right next to their other jobs? Darkfall. I guess if Darkfall is fake so are those other jobs.  But I thought you said the people who worked on Darkfall never worked on anything? Uh oh, you're story is starting to eat itself.

When you think about it, 2 things are possible.

1. This is a scam and it was just build as a hype machine.

You mean "built"? I don't really see how a game that doesn't exist has signed with a publisher that releases public stock and makes reports to its stock brokers about its business transactions.

2. This is an actual game and the designers are truthful but have no experience or knowledge on how to design a game and the game will come out one day as a low budget title or will never come out.

 Well now you're being sensible. No one knows how this game is going to be. I do believe they have quite a bit of experience with MMOs, and they're making a spiritual successor to Ultima Online. And they've mentioned having deep pockets a few times, don't know from where. We'll see how it is. It exists, but it might suck for all we know. I hope not. 

Originally posted by Polarization

Well thanks, I guess that’s clears up the issue once and for all, absolutely no reason to be concerned anymore.

And to think, all those years of wasted speculation by the community, we finally know the truth because of your single unsubstantiated declaration that’s in complete contradiction to a growing body of evidence.

But it’s a pity the development of Darkfall has not been such a short story though eh?

I think you are getting mixed up there... The evidence acctualy points to the fact that the game is legit. As for the oposite... there is no single piece of evidence... Just speculation. So.. what evidence are you talking about?

I dont agree with the vaporware crowd, as I have said many times.  In the most basic sense, the game is "legit", as there is sufficient evidence to show a company named Aventurine is coding a game called Darkfall.

The real questions revolve around Aventurine's ability to deliver on their promises.  Considering that they still have not done anything to validate their claims at this late stage of dev, and their past track record is consistently poor, many question their ability and/or their honesty.  Attempts to validate claims made by these devs or their fans most often result in debunking. 

Darkfall has been in production since 2000.  Fans that think that sounds too long will claim that the game was restarted from scratch in 2003 when Razorwax merged with Aventurine.  (Yet the updates from the devs in 2003 say nothing of the sort, in fact, going the opposite route by telling us the game is almost ready for public beta)

So, yes the game is being worked on.  Will it live up to expectations?  Unless your expecations are low...I would not hold my breath.

Originally posted by Theodgrim

I dont agree with the vaporware crowd, as I have said many times.  In the most basic sense, the game is "legit", as there is sufficient evidence to show a company named Aventurine is coding a game called Darkfall.

The real questions revolve around Aventurine's ability to deliver on their promises.  Considering that they still have not done anything to validate their claims at this late stage of dev, and their past track record is consistently poor, many question their ability and/or their honesty.  Attempts to validate claims made by these devs or their fans most often result in debunking. 

Darkfall has been in production since 2000.  Fans that think that sounds too long will claim that the game was restarted from scratch in 2003 when Razorwax merged with Aventurine.  (Yet the updates from the devs in 2003 say nothing of the sort, in fact, going the opposite route by telling us the game is almost ready for public beta)

So, yes the game is being worked on.  Will it live up to expectations?  Unless your expecations are low...I would not hold my breath.

I very much agree with this post, and I think its really the answer to the question as well as the end of this thread.  There is a Game being Worked on legitimately by a developer named adventurine.  I think that pretty much answers the question.

Whether the game is going to be good or not  (or release or not)  is irrelevant, and there are a bunch of other threads arguing that fact, but in this one, the answer is clear that yes... this is a legitimate game.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Scubiedude

Like I said,from what I have read on this forum there is alot of conflictingting information .Good and Bad.It is hard to know what to believe.

 

It exists. Their European publisher just recently released a business statement to their stock holders saying they'd be distributing the game for Aventurine. The quality the game is in, we don't know (reports say its great, from the visits to the studio) but we do know it exists.

 

Also, AoC was never EVER even attempting what Darkfall is doing. The closest AoC and Darkfall were was more active combat, but AoC's combat was never anything special, and by the time it made it to release was simplified from 8 directional to 3 directional. Laughable.

Actually its 5 troll and you are laughable. :)

There's plenty of bad things to say about AoC but combat is not one of them.

As far as I can see, Darkfall will have mindless button bashing like Oblivion so don't BS about combat in other games.

AOC combat is for children, no skill involved

Originally posted by steve-irwin

AOC combat is for children, no skill involved

Says the person who failed to master it?

But lets not get off topic eh?  Doesn't really matter any more how many years they've been in development, all that matters is one simple thing.  When will the game be released? 

Because in the end, it is all just vaporware until we get to play it.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by steve-irwin

AOC combat is for children, no skill involved

 

Says the person who failed to master it?

But lets not get off topic eh?  Doesn't really matter any more how many years they've been in development, all that matters is one simple thing.  When will the game be released? 

Because in the end, it is all just vaporware until we get to play it.

 

Uhhh no...its not. That's not what vaporware means at all. That implies that every single game in development doesn't exist until its on the shelves...

Development in 5 years. It exists. Whether or not it will live up to promises is another story. People like Waterlilly don't know what they're talking about, and It hink I proved that in my last post.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by steve-irwin

AOC combat is for children, no skill involved

 

Says the person who failed to master it?

But lets not get off topic eh?  Doesn't really matter any more how many years they've been in development, all that matters is one simple thing.  When will the game be released? 

Because in the end, it is all just vaporware until we get to play it.

 

Copy and paste where I said I failed to master it? Oh you cant cuz I never said it right?That means your assuming that right? You know what they say about people who assume right? Good!!

I have mastered it, it isnt very hard to master, sorry it was so hard for you to master, different people learn at different speeds, thats all I can say.

AOC is kiddie stuff, my 7 year old nephew owns people all the time in it... nuff said

Originally posted by Uziel78

Originally posted by Polarization

 

Well thanks, I guess that’s clears up the issue once and for all, absolutely no reason to be concerned anymore.

And to think, all those years of wasted speculation by the community, we finally know the truth because of your single unsubstantiated declaration that’s in complete contradiction to a growing body of evidence.

But it’s a pity the development of Darkfall has not been such a short story though eh?

 

I think you are getting mixed up there... The evidence acctualy points to the fact that the game is legit. As for the oposite... there is no single piece of evidence... Just speculation. So.. what evidence are you talking about?

Only if repeated lies, missed deadlines, lack of financial backing, and failure to provide one shred of evidence the game even runs proves it's legit. 

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Waterlily

No one knows if it's legit.

The problems start when you try to find games these people have made before, you will find NONE.

That's because they're a new company, just like Mythic was before they made Dark Age of Camelot.

Exactly 8 years (Razorwax) or 5 years 9 months (Aventurine) is hardy "New"

When you try to find any other games anyone designing this game have worked on, you will find NONE.

You've personally checked into the backround of all the developers and found nothing? Prove it.

Here's one. http://www.henningludvigsen.com/wordpress/?page_id=8

Yeah but he's the only one worth mentioning.

When you try to find a business or publisher who has ever supported this game or company, you will find NONE.

Wrong again. Nice try. They have a very old, wealthy and well respected publisher. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=58541&highlight=publisher

There not publishing Darkfall they have only agreed to Distribute it, so its you who are wrong.

When you try to find out the building they supposidly work in, you will find 0 pictures of them at work.

What?! Are you serious? You're complaining about not having a picture of their office? You've got to be joking. That's just sad and pathetic. Wasn't there a huge google Earth thread of Hashbrick trying to find their office, making an idiot of himself because he forgot to translate avenue?Well, here they are. http://www.moondawn.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=48

I agree, plenty of pictures of there offices, and we know where they are.

No one seems to have played a closed beta.

Wrong. The people who have visited the office in Greece have played and commented on it, but of course people like you will just say its all fake, cause you want to troll. Ahhh I see who you are now. Waterlilly, you never have anything good to say despite all the evidence that gets stacked against you. My troll radar should have gone off right away.

Asp played the stand alone one year old tech demo from 2006, he clearly says so in his article.

Please provide evidence that anyone has played Darkfall closed beta, untill then I'll consider you wrong.

No real gameplay video's, just some video's that anyone could have made that just show some simple landscapes.

There are about 4-5 videos. One showing combat and large battles. The other showing all the landscapes and systems in place. Another one showing mounts. There are also 500 other screenshots at least. Nice try.

Hopefully theres alot more to Darkfall then combat, "large battles", lanscapes, "systems" and  mounts that we have not seen in the released videos so far.

7 years in development.

About 4 1/2 - 5 actually.

Claus started planning Darkfall in 1995

Razorwax started developing Darkfall exactly 8 years ago.

Aventurine has continued devloping Darkfall for 5 years 9 months.

Designers have other jobs besides working for darkfall.

 A few artists do. But you know what is listed right next to their other jobs? Darkfall. I guess if Darkfall is fake so are those other jobs.  But I thought you said the people who worked on Darkfall never worked on anything? Uh oh, you're story is starting to eat itself.

If Henning Ludvigson the Art Director of Darkfall have other jobs, others probebly do too, exactly how many, who knows.

When you think about it, 2 things are possible.

1. This is a scam and it was just build as a hype machine.

You mean "built"? I don't really see how a game that doesn't exist has signed with a publisher that releases public stock and makes reports to its stock brokers about its business transactions.

Remember not the publisher, the distributor. And remember AVE's have no other involvement with Aventurine other then distribution what so ever.

Tasos is one of the greatest hype machine's ever, anyone reading what he says can see that, exactly what he's hyping hopefully we will find out in less then 6 months.

2. This is an actual game and the designers are truthful but have no experience or knowledge on how to design a game and the game will come out one day as a low budget title or will never come out.

 Well now you're being sensible. No one knows how this game is going to be. I do believe they have quite a bit of experience with MMOs, and they're making a spiritual successor to Ultima Online. And they've mentioned having deep pockets a few times, don't know from where. We'll see how it is. It exists, but it might suck for all we know. I hope not. 

Those "deep pockets" are probebly there own, considering the developers and producers are probebly the only significant owners and financiers of Aventurine and Darkfall.

Unfortunatly number 2 is the more likely then the "WoW killer", "THIS GAME IS AWESOME" type predictions in my opinion.

 

In my mind, gleaming from what information I could find,  Darkfall began when Aventurine came into the picture.  Yes there was some stirrings before hand but they reorganized and basically started from scratch.  Others may have their own opinion on the start of Darkfall, myself, 6 years in development.  None of this matters.

Razorwax was started by amatuer developers.

Aventurine bought/took over Razorwax as the 'publisher' and also were amatuer developers.

Being Amatuers has caused them to miss expectations that were stated and has caused the longer development.  Who cares.  What matters is whether or not they can produce  a game that will keep our attention for more than a few months.   That has not been seen.  Not by Asp.  Not by anyone.   Remember they just stated they got the whole world up and running for the first time a few weeks ago. 

   i agree, except it was more like 4-5 years in developement

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Waterlily

No one knows if it's legit.

The problems start when you try to find games these people have made before, you will find NONE.

That's because they're a new company, just like Mythic was before they made Dark Age of Camelot.

When you try to find any other games anyone designing this game have worked on, you will find NONE.

You've personally checked into the backround of all the developers and found nothing? Prove it.

Here's one. http://www.henningludvigsen.com/wordpress/?page_id=8

When you try to find a business or publisher who has ever supported this game or company, you will find NONE.

Wrong again. Nice try. They have a very old, wealthy and well respected publisher. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=58541&highlight=publisher

When you try to find out the building they supposidly work in, you will find 0 pictures of them at work.

What?! Are you serious? You're complaining about not having a picture of their office? You've got to be joking. That's just sad and pathetic. Wasn't there a huge google Earth thread of Hashbrick trying to find their office, making an idiot of himself because he forgot to translate avenue?Well, here they are. http://www.moondawn.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=48

No one seems to have played a closed beta.

Wrong. The people who have visited the office in Greece have played and commented on it, but of course people like you will just say its all fake, cause you want to troll. Ahhh I see who you are now. Waterlilly, you never have anything good to say despite all the evidence that gets stacked against you. My troll radar should have gone off right away.

No real gameplay video's, just some video's that anyone could have made that just show some simple landscapes.

There are about 4-5 videos. One showing combat and large battles. The other showing all the landscapes and systems in place. Another one showing mounts. There are also 500 other screenshots at least. Nice try.

 

7 years in development.

About 4 1/2 - 5 actually.

Designers have other jobs besides working for darkfall.

 A few artists do. But you know what is listed right next to their other jobs? Darkfall. I guess if Darkfall is fake so are those other jobs.  But I thought you said the people who worked on Darkfall never worked on anything? Uh oh, you're story is starting to eat itself.

When you think about it, 2 things are possible.

1. This is a scam and it was just build as a hype machine.

You mean "built"? I don't really see how a game that doesn't exist has signed with a publisher that releases public stock and makes reports to its stock brokers about its business transactions.

2. This is an actual game and the designers are truthful but have no experience or knowledge on how to design a game and the game will come out one day as a low budget title or will never come out.

 Well now you're being sensible. No one knows how this game is going to be. I do believe they have quite a bit of experience with MMOs, and they're making a spiritual successor to Ultima Online. And they've mentioned having deep pockets a few times, don't know from where. We'll see how it is. It exists, but it might suck for all we know. I hope not. 

 Firstly.. Mythic made quite a few games before creating DAoC.. Godzilla Online , Magestorm , Spellbinder , Splatterball 1 and 2 , Darkness Falls 1 and 2 ) , Aliens Online , Silent Death Online.. ect. They had experience in creating games before DAoC. ( They worked with Centropolis on some of those )

Second.. 5 years for dev time on Darkfall? I guess you think the game was scrapped in 2003 to start a new build? Then explain how in just months they were "ready" for beta in 2003. It wouldnt be possible if they started from scratch. It would only be possible if they kept going from what they had.

Originally posted by Kshnik

In my mind, gleaming from what information I could find,  Darkfall began when Aventurine came into the picture.  Yes there was some stirrings before hand but they reorganized and basically started from scratch.  Others may have their own opinion on the start of Darkfall, myself, 6 years in development.  None of this matters.

Kshnik, please read my post's in this thread on the 2nd page if you are interested.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/184734/page/2

I have proven (as others have also shown) in the developers own words from their own updates that Darkfall could never of been re-started from scratch after they formed Aventurine.

Because 7 months after Aventurine was formed Darkfall was apparently about to enter Beta, and 9 months later was apparently in Tech Beta, thats impossible from project start to Beta in 9 months.

So either one can believe they started from scratch and that they are liars,

Or one can believe they did not start from scratch but they are inexperienced / over ambitious etc.

Or Aventurine can perform the impossible.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by steve-irwin

AOC combat is for children, no skill involved

 

Says the person who failed to master it?

But lets not get off topic eh?  Doesn't really matter any more how many years they've been in development, all that matters is one simple thing.  When will the game be released? 

Because in the end, it is all just vaporware until we get to play it.

 

 

Uhhh no...its not. That's not what vaporware means at all. That implies that every single game in development doesn't exist until its on the shelves...

Development in 5 years. It exists. Whether or not it will live up to promises is another story. People like Waterlilly don't know what they're talking about, and It hink I proved that in my last post.

That's because technically speaking all games are vaporware till it is released.  From concept till gold pressing, you never know what could happen.  Remember that MMO that was touted as being the first for console True Fantasy Online?  Gone.  Mythica Gone.  Dragon Empire Gone.  UXO Gone. UO2 Gone.  Gods & Heroes Gone.  At any given time a game might find itself put down.

Originally posted by Polarization

Originally posted by Kshnik

In my mind, gleaming from what information I could find,  Darkfall began when Aventurine came into the picture.  Yes there was some stirrings before hand but they reorganized and basically started from scratch.  Others may have their own opinion on the start of Darkfall, myself, 6 years in development.  None of this matters.

 

Kshnik, please read my post's in this thread on the 2nd page if you are interested.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/184734/page/2

I have proven (as others have also shown) in the developers own words from their own updates that Darkfall could never of been re-started from scratch after they formed Aventurine.

Because 7 months after Aventurine was formed Darkfall was apparently about to enter Beta, and 9 months later was apparently in Tech Beta, thats impossible from project start to Beta in 9 months.

So either one can believe they started from scratch and that they are liars,

Or one can believe they did not start from scratch but they are inexperienced / over ambitious etc.

Or Aventurine can perform the impossible.

Polarization,

Thanks for the link.  I had read that thread. 

Or it could be that they started from scratch and due to their inexperienced made statements they could not support.

Originally posted by SignusM

 

 

Also, AoC was never EVER even attempting what Darkfall is doing. The closest AoC and Darkfall were was more active combat, but AoC's combat was never anything special, and by the time it made it to release was simplified from 8 directional to 3 directional. Laughable.

1-Age of Conan use 5 directionals

2-There is no MMO with exacly the same combat system of AoC

3-There is nothing special about Darkfall real time combat, there are more than 100 single player and multiplayer games using these system, and I can tell you about at least 2 MMOs that use the same system, Risk your Life and Hellgate London.

4-Risk your Life is an old game that already has this so special combat Darkfall will have someday ( or not )

5-People that think it need skills to play a real time combat need to think about it and realize anyone can do it.

6-I dont think it is exacly a good move trash another game to make Darkfall ( that still doesnt exist ) look good

....

Originally posted by Umbral ....

Originally posted by SignusM

 

 

Also, AoC was never EVER even attempting what Darkfall is doing. The closest AoC and Darkfall were was more active combat, but AoC's combat was never anything special, and by the time it made it to release was simplified from 8 directional to 3 directional. Laughable.

 

1-Age of Conan use 5 directionals

2-There is no MMO with exacly the same combat system of AoC

3-There is nothing special about Darkfall real time combat, there are more than 100 single player and multiplayer games using these system,

That's because it's fun.

Originally posted by Friction2u

Originally posted by Umbral ....

Originally posted by SignusM

 

 

Also, AoC was never EVER even attempting what Darkfall is doing. The closest AoC and Darkfall were was more active combat, but AoC's combat was never anything special, and by the time it made it to release was simplified from 8 directional to 3 directional. Laughable.

 

1-Age of Conan use 5 directionals

2-There is no MMO with exacly the same combat system of AoC

3-There is nothing special about Darkfall real time combat, there are more than 100 single player and multiplayer games using these system,

That's because it's fun.

 

I didnt say it is not fun, it can be fun,  I really like Enclave and it use this system, but lets not act like fools and belive it is "special", "original", "unique" and trash an original system like the one in AoC.

...

To the OP. The long and short of it is there isn't really much reason to think this product will ever be released, so don't get your hopes up. (Some might say that the promises made to release by the end of '08 are meaningful but if you look at the history of the company, there isn't a deadline they haven't missed.)

Numerous missed deadlines with a minimal staff of limited prior experience. Perhaps it's appropriate they are located in Greece since the task they have outlined for themselves is Herculean. Trying to do it on a shoestring budget doesn't make it any easier. Then there's the old matrix of: HIGH QUALITY, HIGH SPEED and LOW COST where you can only have 2 of the 3. I'm guessing that this company is shooting for the high quality / low cost combo, cause speed is kind of out of the picture.

At this point its reasonable to believe that if the company doesn't close before release, the product will come out with a feature set significantly less than than what has been promoted.

Is this game legit?

It's too legit to quit!

Originally posted by Waterlily

Designers have other jobs besides working for darkfall.

they don't have other jobs; you made this up.