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Darkfall Launch Delayed
MMORPG.com Manging Editor Jon Wood looks at today's announcement that Darkfall has delayed its launch until February 25th, adding his own commentary to the news.
The developers at Aventurine have announced that they are pushing back the release date of the hotly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall. The new date, according to the announcement, will come on February 25th, 2009.
The reasons for the delay are many and varied and are laid out in the release, but include: partners not being ready (billing, distribution, etc.), A fall behind in beta testing, updates based on tester feedback, and more. The full announcement can be found within this article.
In lieu of a launch, on the 22nd of January, Aventurine will be offering a limited free sample of the game to what they describe as “thousands of players”, with a promise to accommodate as many players as possible. It is interesting that the announcement comes up short of calling the event an Open Beta, although it does say that the company will use the time in order to have players “help us stress test our servers and test the final features of the game”.
Please find below the announcement in its entirety:
We know that the community has been speculating and wondering about the Darkfall release for some time. We haven’t replied until now because there were several complex issues to plan and work out. We also needed to get authorization before we could proceed with this official announcement:
Starting on January 22nd there will be a Darkfall trial with the distribution of the release candidate client allowing thousands of players to sample the game for free, help us stress test our servers and test the final features of the game.
It’s important to understand that there are well over 200 thousand applications by players wanting to get into Darkfall. This number makes it unrealistic to distribute the client and to open up our servers to everyone. We’ll try to accommodate as many players as are possible for us to manage at this stage. Even so, the demand exceeds our current capacity. Interest in Darkfall has surpassed all our expectations to the point that we may need to manage our release differently.
The date of the Darkfall European commercial release has been pushed back to February 25th, 2009. A pre-order will be made available mid-February. The pre-orders will get priority for early access to the game. The pre-orders will also get priority for the game launch if we have to go to a staged release. We’ll go to a staged release only in the case we have more demand than we can handle properly, and until we can upgrade our capacity. The pre-orders are necessary so that we can have some measure of the demand.
The reasons for the new release date follow:
- At this stage, everything is connected: Hundreds of elements need to come together. When one thing falls behind, everything else tends to follow.
- Demand for Darkfall at launch could be much higher than expected. If this is the case, we need a different process to better handle the demand.
- Darkfall’s partners (distribution, billing, account management, support, etc.) entered into the game at a late date and we needed more time than expected to integrate properly.
- We fell behind on a couple of weeks of beta testing progress and we need to make this time up. We need more playtesting data on several features we haven’t had much chance to test externally.
- We’ll use this extra time to implement updates based on tester feedback and also make some enhancements we were saving for after release.
- We want as many players as possible in the game before the launch and we haven’t had the chance to stress test our servers with live players yet.
- We underestimated the effect the holidays would have on our preparations. While we worked through them, the world around us seemed to stop.
- We don’t want to rush things more than needed. An extra month may not seem like a lot of time, but it’s enough to allow us to take care of any compounded delays.
Our hope for Darkfall is to have a good game with a tight player base that we can nurture and steadily build up. Hype surrounding Darkfall is huge right now, despite our best efforts. We’re not sure how this will translate on launch day but we have to make allowances for the possibility that demand could be more than we anticipate.
Announcements will follow with more information on Darkfall pricing, pre-ordering information, North American player access, and system specifications.
The Darkfall Team
Before I continue, I think that it is important at this stage to point out that a delayed launch, even after a specific date was set, is not an unusual process for an MMORPG. We’ve seen it many times before with a wide variety of games. The announcement alone does not signify any wrongdoing on Aventurine’s part and should be treated in the same way as other MMO delays.
With that being said, there are a number of issues that come to the forefront when reading this announcement:
The first, and perhaps most important thing to note is the promise of an announcement regarding pre-order information. This stood out to me immediately upon reading it as to my recollection, Darkfall had promised that there would be no pre-orders for their game. This seemed to be done as a response to critics who called the game’s validity into question.
After a little bit of digging, I found the following quote from a Developer Journal on Warcry titled, “On Full Freedom Gameplay and Substance”, originally published on March 28th, 2008:
“Speaking of public beta, I read someone wished we would give a date, and equated that to professionalism on our part. I won't disagree with that, however giving a public beta date in order to get preorders, even if that means you have to announce consecutive delays, while professional, is not part of our business model. We'll announce a public beta date when we know for sure that it's the right date. Until then, at best, we can give you an idea of our milestones. Darkfall preorders by the way aren't applicable. Our hope for Darkfall is that you won't spend a cent on the game until you've tried it and decided you want to play it.”
On the surface, it would appear as though the company has since re-thought its policy on preorders. Whereas this statement has often been used as a defense against the idea that Darkfall is in some way a “scam”, similar to incidents in the past where players are convinced that a new game in development is for them, only to pre-order and find the game is either nonexistent, or not what they were looking for, it should be expected that the sudden mention of preorders might raise alarm bells for some.
Having looked more closely at what was said, it is difficult to deny that something in the company's policies have changed with players who pre-oder getting priority for entrance into the sample and / or launch. that said, the announcement states that preorders are necessary to gauge demand. it is true that many companies use this technique, however, earlier promises made seem to contradict this decision.
Edit (Jan 16th): Having gone back and taken another look at the wording, it appears that I may be confusing free sample with early access. It now looks to me like pre-ordering won't get you into the free sample, but into an as-yet-unannounced early access for the game, giving some players the ability to try out the game before pre-ordering (as they eluded to in the original promise). That being said, only a fraction of interested players will be able to be let into the trial,. so some players will inevitably be left out in teh dark trying to decide whether or not to preorder.
Next, and now I’m more or less just nitpicking, while it isn’t unusual for an announced release date to be altered and pushed back, the timing of this announcement only one week before the initial projected launch date, adds a little bit of fuel to the fire. The reasons given in the announcement seemed to focus on the idea that the development team was caught somehow unaware of a number of factors:
- Everything is connected: I totally agree, hundreds and hundreds of different departments and elements need to come together to get an MMO off the ground. One small mishap can result in delays or major mistakes that can harm the game’s reputation.
- Demand was higher than expected: Yes, 200,000 signing up for beta is a huge number, but this isn’t a new piece of information. Even without the numbers, the amount of debate in MMO communities concerning this game made it rather plain that this was one of the most highly anticipated upcoming titles. While impressive, and to some surprising, these numbers shouldn’t have been sudden enough to contribute to a delay.
- That their partners weren’t ready: This is more or less legitimate. As mentioned above, it does take an amazing amount of coordination to get a proper MMO launch together. Still though, with the original launch date being announced so recently ( December 5th) it is a little bit surprising that these delays weren’t known about either at the time or well before today’s announcement.
- Falling a couple of weeks behind on beta Testing: Again, this one is something that just happens sometimes. If it were me, I may have announced this fact slightly sooner than today, but there’s absolutely nothing unreasonable about this.
- Using the extra time to implement updates based on beta tester feedback: Again, this makes perfect sense. If you’re going to have downtime, you should use it wisely and there is no better way to do that than to listen to player feedback.
- Wanting more players in the game and not having had a chance to stress test with live players yet: Wanting as many people in the game before launch is a great and laudable goal. It’s the second part that throws me for a bit of a loop. Once again, the fact that their game hadn’t been stress tested with live players wasn’t a surprise. That said, it is possible that the company had intended to open up their free sample before now and had to delay because of some of the other issues mentioned on their list. Still, this one probably should have been done a few weeks out from the scheduled launch.
- Underestimating the holidays: I would be a giant hypocrite if I said anything negative about this, and I think that’s probably true of a lot of us out there. I know that I only just cleared my desk of holiday backlog that I thought I’d have done the day after Christmas.
- Don’t like to rush things: This fact is pretty self-evident about the Darkfall project as a whole, given the long term of development that it’s had. In terms of MMO launch delays though, one month is a pretty standard number.
While disappointment levels might be running a little bit high for players who were looking forward to Darkfall’s launch, and some who might like to see the game fizzle in flames may point to the delay as “proof” that the game is some kind of “scam”, I think that cooler heads should prevail on the subject. Is the delay a perfect scenario? No. Should we see this and assume that there’s something fishy in the works? Probably not. Should we look at the information presented and perhaps be a little more wary? Maybe. Should it make us ask more questions? Definitely, but that’s almost always a good idea anyway.
at least we still have the White Border!
blegh... no surprise here. I'm not a fan, and I'm not a skeptic. I just don't care at this point. If & When the game releases, I'll let it be out a while before I check it out. My frustration is with the fact that the release is pushed back mearly a month and STILL there's a total and complete lack of info coming out. Official info. Not fan sites and beta testers.
What a surprise... not.
A few months ago I made a post saying that the amount of time they were giving between start of beta and launch was too short. Predictably, the Darkfall fan base gave me all sorts of reasons why I was wrong.
I really have very mixed feelings about Darkfall. Their goals are ambitious. But their execution of those goals has to date not left me feeling very confident in their ability. Maybe the game will prove to be great. But so far I'm smelling another Age of Conan.
All this delay does is reinforce my plan to wait for about six months after launch before I think about trying the game.
absolutely hilarious
there are so many comments that could be made about the delay - and about the defense this site is giving aventurine (weird to say the least) - but the reasons given are so funny and the anticipation of all the fanboi comments prevent me from making the cohesive statement i would like to
i do know one thing - i'll be buying some popcorn on the way home from work tonight - it is going to be extraordinarily delicious
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.
Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.
I'm just saying, perspective is key.
Wow, I requested a couple days off for the launch and yet again Aventurine has proven to disappoint. I haven't stated one word yet as I wanted to see for myself exactly what would happen. I don't know about you there reading this, but in my line of work, the service, information, and effort provided by Aventurine and those defending personnel of MMORPG.com has proven to me this game is not going to turn out to be the dream everyone was hoping. I wish them luck in getting this up and running and I encourage MMORPG.com to let them breathe and die in their own waste. Why contribute to the pile they have successfully built? Especially when the pile smells as bad as it does.
Benefit of the doubt or not, this is yet another huge red flag for any sane consumer. I've been burned by craptastic launches more than enough already, this is the final nail in the coffin as far as I am concerned. I may still check out the game after it has actually launched, but no way in hades would I preorder at this point.
To me this is not that big of a deal, they are launching 30 days later. Now if they delayed it by 6 months, I would be really skeptical.
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.
Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.
I'm just saying, perspective is key.
Other companies, that you know are actually making a game. This history behind this so called game, and the people behind it can no longer be given the benefit of doubt. There is more than just cause for concern regarding this whole game. This person Tasos now says, with a week, YES a week till launch they need more etsting and limitied players and delayed launch etc. Wasnt this the same person saying for damn years they have the ebst AI in the world testing the game, along with the ebst QA etam ever. And they had done real world simulations with thousands of ai bots or whatever in the game. This person Tasos, spews lies and lies on an epic scale. Wouldnt be suprised if they make a pre order page or soemthing then take everyoens money and do a runner.
I just shit bricks!
You dont find it odd then announce this 1 week from launch> When all games are have gone veirtually gold, and all there is left to do is sort the last bits out. If they had said this months ago, but 1 week till launch lol.
*sigh*
If a delayed launch during testing is a red flag...then you might as well just say that every MMO in the history of the genre has red flagged to you. Seriously...out of all the things you people COULD be trashing DF for....you pick this. I really wanna trash DF with you guys, I really do. Why do you insist on making it so hard for me? Why do you guys pick the most retarded crap to whine about? Stop forcing me to be on the dirty side of the fence...PLEASE!
Other companies, that you know are actually making a game. This history behind this so called game, and the people behind it can no longer be given the benefit of doubt. There is more than just cause for concern regarding this whole game. This person Tasos now says, with a week, YES a week till launch they need more etsting and limitied players and delayed launch etc. Wasnt this the same person saying for damn years they have the ebst AI in the world testing the game, along with the ebst QA etam ever. And they had done real world simulations with thousands of ai bots or whatever in the game. This person Tasos, spews lies and lies on an epic scale. Wouldnt be suprised if they make a pre order page or soemthing then take everyoens money and do a runner.
You may very well have valid concerns there. Which is actually why I wrote this article. I wanted to present folks with what i asw as the facts of the issue so that they could make up their own minds one way or the other. I'm not here to tell people how to think.
I'm just sayin is all. :)
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.
Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.
I'm just saying, perspective is key.
There is no such thing as perspective when it's about running a business. Business 101 is simple yet Aventurine has shown no sign whatsoever of having any business intelligence, including no marketing campaign prior to such a anticipated game. Now please bring in tha Tacos or whatever the name is said they have a reason to justify no marketing, that just does not make any business sense...
Do i want the game to come out as i want to play it. Yes! Do i believe it will come out, no.
*sigh*
If a delayed launch during testing is a red flag...then you might as well just say that every MMO in the history of the genre has red flagged to you. Seriously...out of all the things you people COULD be trashing DF for....you pick this. I really wanna trash DF with you guys, I really do. Why do you insist on making it so hard for me? Why do you guys pick the most retarded crap to whine about? Stop forcing me to be on the dirty side of the fence...PLEASE!
Its not 5 months or a yeAR form launch, get a grip, its 1 week. Games are finished and the major testing is over 1 week till launch.
I love that phrase, "I'm just saying." I'm not attacking as for the most part I believe you are genuine in your reply and the part I doubt would only be judgement.
this game has been delayed for years now....ever 2 or 3 years tasos re-emerges saying the game is done, then delays the game for a short time frame, vanishes, hear from him again 6months to a year later, then promises another launch.
This is shocking and unexpected news! D8!
Oh wait it's totally not!
Its not 5 months or a yeAR form launch, get a grip, its 1 week. Games are finished and the major testing is over 1 week till launch.
I would venture to say that you are wrong. I say this because, in every MMO I've personally played, "testing" didn't end until almost a year AFTER launch. Just because these companies choose to launch their garbage on us does not mean that testing was really ever "finished".
Also, the last run of MMO's have had delays within a month of launch. By last run, I mean to say the last 3-5 years of MMO gaming. I view the genre in blocks that generally run 3-5 years each. I never felt that viewing the MMO genre "by year" was a good way to look at a series of games which tend to last a player 3-5 years.
OMG noes! Its delayed a month! A whole month!
Geez....whatever.
Atleast there is statement about pre-ordering. :)
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.
Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.
I'm just saying, perspective is key.
"benefit of the doubt" i think is a bit mild but since that is what you say you had in mind when writing the aritcle then so-be-it
and, by the way it was quite an enjoyable read - informative with just a touch of good-natured humor - thank-you
this article among others are good reasons to keep coming back to this site - despite the newly heavy handed moderation and your game "correspondents"
LOL...........delays seem to have become a major game mechnic in darkfall. Its a very innovative feature, I havent had this much fun in years!!
Are you really going to risk your cash on pre-ordering with another delay. Please don't get me wrong, I'm still very excited and hope that the launch does happen. But to put my money in an unsecure fund would be financially ignorant.
Its not 5 months or a yeAR form launch, get a grip, its 1 week. Games are finished and the major testing is over 1 week till launch.
I would venture to say that you are wrong. I say this because, in every MMO I've personally played, "testing" didn't end until almost a year AFTER launch. Just because these companies choose to launch their garbage on us does not mean that testing was really ever "finished".
Also, the last run of MMO's have had delays within a month of launch. By last run, I mean to say the last 3-5 years of MMO gaming. I view the genre in blocks that generally run 3-5 years each. I never felt that viewing the MMO genre "by year" was a good way to look at a series of games which tend to last a player 3-5 years.
Jesus, its obviuos tersting goes on throught the perosid of a game. jesus its not common for a company to say 1 WEEK till launch, oh by the way more testing needs done, we cant let everyone play, and all the other bullshit Tasos and Brannoc spew.
Tasos for years was saying hey they have the most amazing Ai to test their game, and the ebst qa team, along with real world simulations with hundrerds of thousands of conncted players or whater. Everyoen knows testing goes on even after launch. This is 1 week, any competetnt team, or bussiness would know the problems well in advanced, and not 1 week. Hell any A-school or university person with logic, hell even my dustbin man could probably think logically like that.
Any one that preorders this is a sucka!
Are you really going to risk your cash on pre-ordering with another delay. Please don't get me wrong, I'm still very excited and hope that the launch does happen. But to put my money in an unsecure fund would be financially ignorant.
No I wont. Im not even sure I will play it at all. I was being sarcastic because this game seems to fuel alot of people, however a month of delay is nothing to fuzz about, it would have been worse if they would have said Q4 or something unclear "like sometime in 2009".
How is this a red flag for sane consumers? All it means is that the people over at Aventurtine are real human beings who cannot do everything perfectly and run into problems. These guys are trying to put out something that all of us have wanted for a long time. Its OBVIOUSLY coming out, that has been proven. So why dont we support them in their efforts? Besdides, its an MMO release. You arent a sane person if you didn't expect a delay.
I would venture to say that you are wrong. I say this because, in every MMO I've personally played, "testing" didn't end until almost a year AFTER launch. Just because these companies choose to launch their garbage on us does not mean that testing was really ever "finished".
Also, the last run of MMO's have had delays within a month of launch. By last run, I mean to say the last 3-5 years of MMO gaming. I view the genre in blocks that generally run 3-5 years each. I never felt that viewing the MMO genre "by year" was a good way to look at a series of games which tend to last a player 3-5 years.
Jesus, its obviuos tersting goes on throught the perosid of a game. jesus its not common for a company to say 1 WEEK till launch, oh by the way more testing needs done, we cant let everyone play, and all the other bullshit Tasos and Brannoc spew.
Tasos for years was saying hey they have the most amazing Ai to test their game, and the ebst qa team, along with real world simulations with hundrerds of thousands of conncted players or whater. Everyoen knows testing goes on even after launch. This is 1 week, any competetnt team, or bussiness would know the problems well in advanced, and not 1 week. Hell any A-school or university person with logic, hell even my dustbin man could probably think logically like that.
And for years we've all said that "tasos is retarded" for saying AI bots could test a game. Turns out, when he finally DID get real players to test the game....they suddenly had to "delay the game and test longer". Now lets look at this "logic" from that perspective.
Lets pretend Tasos really thought his AI was doing a good job testing. Then, hammer to stone, he finds out that real players are finding all KINDS of things he hadn't forseen. He goes on, thinking things will be okay and that, surely, his inside team and bots found most of it. A couple weeks before launch...he realizes they haven't even tested EVERYTHING with real players yet. Now he has to go get clearance to announce the delay. Yeah, I can totally see how this sort of thing happens to a completely inexperienced team of people who had expectations that just aren't possible.
Note: I never said Aventurine was a smart company. Never said they had a clue. Just saying, this isn't as big a deal as we're making it out to be. Also saying that its actually a good thing, because it means that Tasos is having to suck up some of that pride and naive idealism and actually learn and move forward.
The people posting here and on the DF forums are a classic exmaple of stupidity run rampant. We just watched 2 of the most anticipated MMOs in years come out in 2008 and land in virtual quicksand as they sank away into almost nothing. The reason is what we have seen time and time again, a bad launch. You can't recover from it. If Warhammer and AoC had launched with the content and polish they have today, they both would be doing a lot better.
While it can be disappointing to have to wait, if you want the game to succeed, you need it to be as good as possible when it goes live. Another 4 weeks is not the end of the world compared to the delays other games have issued, and considering how long we have been waiting. Getting it right has always been the most important thing, especially for a first impression. Nobody wins if an MMO fails, so it puzzles me why so many people are praying for the failure of this game when the market is already saturated with cookie-cutter theme park MMOs that do little to innovate or give players the freedom befitting of anygame classified as an RPG.
I would venture to say that you are wrong. I say this because, in every MMO I've personally played, "testing" didn't end until almost a year AFTER launch. Just because these companies choose to launch their garbage on us does not mean that testing was really ever "finished".
Also, the last run of MMO's have had delays within a month of launch. By last run, I mean to say the last 3-5 years of MMO gaming. I view the genre in blocks that generally run 3-5 years each. I never felt that viewing the MMO genre "by year" was a good way to look at a series of games which tend to last a player 3-5 years.
Jesus, its obviuos tersting goes on throught the perosid of a game. jesus its not common for a company to say 1 WEEK till launch, oh by the way more testing needs done, we cant let everyone play, and all the other bullshit Tasos and Brannoc spew.
Tasos for years was saying hey they have the most amazing Ai to test their game, and the ebst qa team, along with real world simulations with hundrerds of thousands of conncted players or whater. Everyoen knows testing goes on even after launch. This is 1 week, any competetnt team, or bussiness would know the problems well in advanced, and not 1 week. Hell any A-school or university person with logic, hell even my dustbin man could probably think logically like that.
And for years we've all said that "tasos is retarded" for saying AI bots could test a game. Turns out, when he finally DID get real players to test the game....they suddenly had to "delay the game and test longer". Now lets look at this "logic" from that perspective.
Lets pretend Tasos really thought his AI was doing a good job testing. Then, hammer to stone, he finds out that real players are finding all KINDS of things he hadn't forseen. He goes on, thinking things will be okay and that, surely, his inside team and bots found most of it. A couple weeks before launch...he realizes they haven't even tested EVERYTHING with real players yet. Now he has to go get clearance to announce the delay. Yeah, I can totally see how this sort of thing happens to a completely inexperienced team of people who had expectations that just aren't possible.
Note: I never said Aventurine was a smart company. Never said they had a clue. Just saying, this isn't as big a deal as we're making it out to be. Also saying that its actually a good thing, because it means that Tasos is having to suck up some of that pride and naive idealism and actually learn and move forward.
Or maybe hsi just lying out of his big fat arseee? he has bene known to do it many times before. This sint the first time this has happened. so there will be no loss of ego, or idealism lost. Because he has pulled stuff like this before. hell there will be abother beta sign up, like numerous others, and more so called testing by testers, that nobody ever hears about on any site, except for blogs started by tasso himself to make it look like he he is testing a game.
I won't be playing this game, but a month delay isn't that bad. Just a few more weekends and it will be all good.
What you might want to start looking at is if this date is pushed back again.
Darkfall delays are pretty much the only thing that makes me go:
DAAAAWWWROFL
As in, daw, I want it to be true and ROFL, it's either not true or the 'developer' is doing this on purpose to make people go VAPORWARE!
Anybody that actually gives this company money for a subscription deserves exactly what they deserve.
How is this a red flag for sane consumers? All it means is that the people over at Aventurtine are real human beings who cannot do everything perfectly and run into problems. These guys are trying to put out something that all of us have wanted for a long time. Its OBVIOUSLY coming out, that has been proven. So why dont we support them in their efforts? Besdides, its an MMO release. You arent a sane person if you didn't expect a delay.
Did you see the laundry lists of shit they said delyaed it? How freakin amature are they to think that it's "good to go" in a month w/ all that?
Please. They have their dedicated player base that's ready to go, but their business practice thus far is slowly dwindling those players down. And the complete and total lack of publicity isn't helping them at all. I understand they are counting on "word of mouth" but w/ BS like a 2/25 release date that more then likely will get delayed... again... they're looking at a "funcom" word of mouth campaign
Jesus, its obviuos tersting goes on throught the perosid of a game. jesus its not common for a company to say 1 WEEK till launch, oh by the way more testing needs done, we cant let everyone play, and all the other bullshit Tasos and Brannoc spew.
Tasos for years was saying hey they have the most amazing Ai to test their game, and the ebst qa team, along with real world simulations with hundrerds of thousands of conncted players or whater. Everyoen knows testing goes on even after launch. This is 1 week, any competetnt team, or bussiness would know the problems well in advanced, and not 1 week. Hell any A-school or university person with logic, hell even my dustbin man could probably think logically like that.
And for years we've all said that "tasos is retarded" for saying AI bots could test a game. Turns out, when he finally DID get real players to test the game....they suddenly had to "delay the game and test longer". Now lets look at this "logic" from that perspective.
Lets pretend Tasos really thought his AI was doing a good job testing. Then, hammer to stone, he finds out that real players are finding all KINDS of things he hadn't forseen. He goes on, thinking things will be okay and that, surely, his inside team and bots found most of it. A couple weeks before launch...he realizes they haven't even tested EVERYTHING with real players yet. Now he has to go get clearance to announce the delay. Yeah, I can totally see how this sort of thing happens to a completely inexperienced team of people who had expectations that just aren't possible.
Note: I never said Aventurine was a smart company. Never said they had a clue. Just saying, this isn't as big a deal as we're making it out to be. Also saying that its actually a good thing, because it means that Tasos is having to suck up some of that pride and naive idealism and actually learn and move forward.
Or maybe hsi just lying out of his big fat arseee? he has bene known to do it many times before. This sint the first time this has happened. so there will be no loss of ego, or idealism lost. Because he has pulled stuff like this before. hell there will be abother beta sign up, like numerous others, and more so called testing by testers, that nobody ever hears about on any site, except for blogs started by tasso himself to make it look like he he is testing a game.
22nd is free trial with as many people as they can support... i dont think it will have an nda
Jesus, its obviuos tersting goes on throught the perosid of a game. jesus its not common for a company to say 1 WEEK till launch, oh by the way more testing needs done, we cant let everyone play, and all the other bullshit Tasos and Brannoc spew.
Tasos for years was saying hey they have the most amazing Ai to test their game, and the ebst qa team, along with real world simulations with hundrerds of thousands of conncted players or whater. Everyoen knows testing goes on even after launch. This is 1 week, any competetnt team, or bussiness would know the problems well in advanced, and not 1 week. Hell any A-school or university person with logic, hell even my dustbin man could probably think logically like that.
And for years we've all said that "tasos is retarded" for saying AI bots could test a game. Turns out, when he finally DID get real players to test the game....they suddenly had to "delay the game and test longer". Now lets look at this "logic" from that perspective.
Lets pretend Tasos really thought his AI was doing a good job testing. Then, hammer to stone, he finds out that real players are finding all KINDS of things he hadn't forseen. He goes on, thinking things will be okay and that, surely, his inside team and bots found most of it. A couple weeks before launch...he realizes they haven't even tested EVERYTHING with real players yet. Now he has to go get clearance to announce the delay. Yeah, I can totally see how this sort of thing happens to a completely inexperienced team of people who had expectations that just aren't possible.
Note: I never said Aventurine was a smart company. Never said they had a clue. Just saying, this isn't as big a deal as we're making it out to be. Also saying that its actually a good thing, because it means that Tasos is having to suck up some of that pride and naive idealism and actually learn and move forward.
Or maybe hsi just lying out of his big fat arseee? he has bene known to do it many times before. This sint the first time this has happened. so there will be no loss of ego, or idealism lost. Because he has pulled stuff like this before. hell there will be abother beta sign up, like numerous others, and more so called testing by testers, that nobody ever hears about on any site, except for blogs started by tasso himself to make it look like he he is testing a game.
22nd is free trial with as many people as they can support... i dont think it will have an nda
Oh wow really, I didnt know that, thats amazing. So Release next year right? Oh wait, is it february?
All this games dates just get more and more bizzare, so when a so called beta is not on the 22nd will u come here and say Release february 22? like you have done many other times?
Epic. (DNA + few BT + many reports + preorder = NO
)
The reasons for the delay are many and varied and are laid out in the release, but include: partners not being ready (billing, distribution, etc.), A fall behind in beta testing, updates based on tester feedback, and more. The full announcement can be found within this article.
In lieu of a launch, on the 22nd of January, Aventurine will be offering a limited free sample of the game to what they describe as “thousands of players”, with a promise to accommodate as many players as possible. It is interesting that the announcement comes up short of calling the event an Open Beta, although it does say that the company will use the time in order to have players “help us stress test our servers and test the final features of the game”.
OUCH
Thx Stradden.
So now what? What games are out there for a crafter? I need something as true to real world economics as possible. Any suggestions on what I should try next?
LMAO! how many times has this happened now????? LMAO
Earthrise maybe, it seems similar to Darkfall except it's not promising as much which means it has a much better chance to succeed. One of the main selling points is intricate, player-driven economy mainly via crafting. If I ever decide to try a sandbox I think I'll try that.
Jon,
You do know that the publisher for Darkfall has a "President" named Dan Antonescu? I'm sure you are fully aware of this. The publisher also works locally in the exact same office/apartment as Adventurine, and the two other people working there.
How about some in depth journalism regarding Darkfall you tweeb (and I'm being nice here because we've met, and I think overall your a good guy) and write something besides blind conjecture to throw out to the masses... Do some worth while journalism on the industry as a whole, and blow these little pimply faced, lying turds off the face of the development map.
These are the same types of kids who have duped GOOD publishers, and made it hard for both you and I to secure funding for legitimate projects. These types of little startups with all their bullshit are one of the big reasons games like Wish, Realm, and quite a few others in development will never hit the street.
People often wonder why I'm so passionate about voicing an opinion about a particular company, game, or standard. The reason is quite simple, I've chewed on the same dirt you have Jon, and I've done so from the beginning. I'm never incorrect in any assumption I've made regarding any mmorpg project, and get quite pissed when I see little twerps like adventurine taking advantage of 1)marketspace 2)publishers 3)fans.
Especially the fans.
Especially when the project is complete and utter BS. So some bullshit artists string a potential investor/publisher along for quite some time, along with the fans, who back them, put time, energy and motion behind them, and then everyone gets tossed on their face. Ever wonder why mmo players are jaded? Publishers?
Jon, helping spin anything behind "Adventurine" as positive, without having FACTS, and integrity as both a journalist and publisher of material for masses of people is not in good character for you. Like I said, i think your a good guy. Go prove it.
When I worked with Keith on VG, our number one priority with our work was always the fans, no matter how hard Jeff or MS tried to fuck it up.
I know we have someone in Greece who posts on the mmorpg forums, and I'll bet he even has a digital camera. Now if you are worried about driving off revenue from mmorpg by other publishers who think you are out to "screw" some company, don't, only the illegitimate pubs/devs will have a problem with it.
I'll bet Adventurine will have a HUGE problem with it. Thank goodness they are in Greece, have no capitol, and no international attornies eh?
Go get em tiger, prove me wrong!
Earthrise maybe, it seems similar to Darkfall except it's not promising as much which means it has a much better chance to succeed. One of the main selling points is intricate, player-driven economy mainly via crafting. If I ever decide to try a sandbox I think I'll try that.
Beautiful, thank you!
Um, Warhammer is doing fine and Age of Conan is not. The hype is what makes you think they are complete failures, when only one truly was. I used to here people sit outside the smoke area at my college and blab about World of Warcraft, now its Warhammer. Either way, thats not why I wanted to respond.
From what this states:
"It’s important to understand that there are well over 200 thousand applications by players wanting to get into Darkfall. This number makes it unrealistic to distribute the client and to open up our servers to everyone. We’ll try to accommodate as many players as are possible for us to manage at this stage. Even so, the demand exceeds our current capacity. Interest in Darkfall has surpassed all our expectations to the point that we may need to manage our release differently."
It sounds as if they are saying they will not be able to hold more than 200k clients during the trail. What effect will this have come launch? If this game is some god amoung men, then I can only see how much drama this is going to cause come trail day. I know it sucks when games over shoot and come out with to many servers. But to undershoot is a whole different ball field. And let's be honest here, this letter is a direct copy of any letter posted from any game when it gets pushed back. I always though Aventurine was a company that stated they would never shoot themselves in the foot with solid deadlines. Now it seems they do exactly what they didn't want, yet somehow this isnt an issue. I've been in plenty of beta programs, alot of them being p2p games that are popular or were popular. In every single Closed Beta, Alpha Test, Family and Friends Beta, ive noticed the same dam thing, bad beta testing. I'm starting to wonder why companies even use free testers anymore. It seems like they ruin the game more than they help it.
I had a friend who worked for EA and did testing on there sports games. He won the job by winning a Madden tournament, funny enough. This was no standered beta testing either. He had notebooks of notes he had to take, questions he had to answer, and surveys he had to fill out. Now some may say they hate EA's sports games. But they usually come out pretty well polished. This is not to say they are fun and entertaining. But that's not the point. The point is this, can a community really help you beta test a game and make it a better game. I for one think they kill a game quicker than anything. It seems like every Beta forum is filled with a bunch people who instead of offering suggestions and filing correct bug reports, demand everything and cry about it when its patched in. I've seen numerous times where a Dev will make a post showing how he wants bugs reported or suggestions made, in a nice clean format. Only to see countless threads that are just demands. Now before this gets to long I just want to say this. Darkfall is not going to be everyones cup of tea. It's going to have issues like every other MMO, from network to code related. Darkfall is not some flawless game that's going to make grown men cry. FOr those of you waitng for some seemless MMO that is just amazing and bug-free, your looking at the wrong genre. This isnt a console, it's PC. Take what you get , and just deal with it or move on.
i think Jon and crew are doing the best they can with a) Aventurine being in Greece and b) basically not allowing anyone in to see their scam.....err...sorry...game. There's only so much you can do from this distance.
"The date of the Darkfall European commercial release has been pushed back to February 25th, 2009. A pre-order will be made available mid-February. The pre-orders will get priority for early access to the game. The pre-orders will also get priority for the game launch if we have to go to a staged release. We’ll go to a staged release only in the case we have more demand than we can handle properly, and until we can upgrade our capacity. The pre-orders are necessary so that we can have some measure of the demand."
Now there has been so much tossed around about Darkfall I can't remember it all. Isn't this something the developers were supposed to be against? I guess trying it before you buy it went out the window.
Um, Warhammer is doing fine and Age of Conan is not. The hype is what makes you think they are complete failures, when only one truly was. I used to here people sit outside the smoke area at my college and blab about World of Warcraft, now its Warhammer. Either way, thats not why I wanted to respond.
From what this states:
"It’s important to understand that there are well over 200 thousand applications by players wanting to get into Darkfall. This number makes it unrealistic to distribute the client and to open up our servers to everyone. We’ll try to accommodate as many players as are possible for us to manage at this stage. Even so, the demand exceeds our current capacity. Interest in Darkfall has surpassed all our expectations to the point that we may need to manage our release differently."
It sounds as if they are saying they will not be able to hold more than 200k clients during the trail. What effect will this have come launch? If this game is some god amoung men, then I can only see how much drama this is going to cause come trail day. I know it sucks when games over shoot and come out with to many servers. But to undershoot is a whole different ball field. And let's be honest here, this letter is a direct copy of any letter posted from any game when it gets pushed back. I always though Aventurine was a company that stated they would never shoot themselves in the foot with solid deadlines. Now it seems they do exactly what they didn't want, yet somehow this isnt an issue. I've been in plenty of beta programs, alot of them being p2p games that are popular or were popular. In every single Closed Beta, Alpha Test, Family and Friends Beta, ive noticed the same dam thing, bad beta testing. I'm starting to wonder why companies even use free testers anymore. It seems like they ruin the game more than they help it.
I had a friend who worked for EA and did testing on there sports games. He won the job by winning a Madden tournament, funny enough. This was no standered beta testing either. He had notebooks of notes he had to take, questions he had to answer, and surveys he had to fill out. Now some may say they hate EA's sports games. But they usually come out pretty well polished. This is not to say they are fun and entertaining. But that's not the point. The point is this, can a community really help you beta test a game and make it a better game. I for one think they kill a game quicker than anything. It seems like every Beta forum is filled with a bunch people who instead of offering suggestions and filing correct bug reports, demand everything and cry about it when its patched in. I've seen numerous times where a Dev will make a post showing how he wants bugs reported or suggestions made, in a nice clean format. Only to see countless threads that are just demands. Now before this gets to long I just want to say this. Darkfall is not going to be everyones cup of tea. It's going to have issues like every other MMO, from network to code related. Darkfall is not some flawless game that's going to make grown men cry. FOr those of you waitng for some seemless MMO that is just amazing and bug-free, your looking at the wrong genre. This isnt a console, it's PC. Take what you get , and just deal with it or move on.
i think Jon and crew are doing the best they can with a) Aventurine being in Greece and b) basically not allowing anyone in to see their scam.....err...sorry...game. There's only so much you can do from this distance.
I agree entirely with Laurann.. I have been coming to this site for quite a while and I rarely even read the articles written by the staff.. they are antiquated useless filler crap for the most part .. I mean does anyone really need a breakdown of the rogue freat tree from WoW . I mean 11 mill fans or whatever probably means 95% of the MMorpg realm has at least tried it .. who needs to read an article about such crap?
What I'd like to read about and would encourage me to read more from this site would be articles just like what Laurann is getting at... someone who is more interested in informing gamers about how likely this game is going to bomb or be a scam or whatever .. instead of taking a super safe benefit of the doubt route .. I mean seriously benefit of the doubt? .. this game has been in development for longer than I have even played MMO's and just now they are realizing how "complex" it is to distribute a game?
They just figured out that they need beta testing? How many years did it take for someone in their office to go "hey guys how we going to disribute this thing?" "staggered release?" what is that crap???
They've been at this for years and years and just now they are realizing that if they have 200k beta signups (which I might add are probably just people looking to see if their game is vaporware more than actual interest in helpiing them test) and they are not sure how many servers they might need to release to the enitre MMO World???
Seems like crap to me .. I mean I semi interested in seeing how this game came out .. I was at least looking forward to all the flaming after it didn't launch with no word from Aventurine on the 22nd.. but now I have to wait another month to watch the flames oh well lol
LOL
LOL
(as if no one saw this coming)
And you're saying this because you think the game is going to suck, or because it doesn't exist? Because if you are, let me reassure you: it most definitely does exist, and it most definitely doesn't suck.
So now what happens when the game releases in Feb or March, and it rocks? I'm going to be laughing my balls off. Har har!
Oh, and speaking of amatures, why don't you give us a list of game that you've helped make.
And you're saying this because you think the game is going to suck, or because it doesn't exist? Because if you are, let me reassure you: it most definitely does exist, and it most definitely doesn't suck.
So now what happens when the game releases in Feb or March, and it rocks? I'm going to be laughing my balls off. Har har!
Oh, and speaking of amatures, why don't you give us a list of game that you've helped make.
lol........
we shall see in february/march
Just to clarify, you are talking about 2009 right? I don't want any "i never mentioned a year" when march comes and goes........
your going to laugh because a game took for freakin ever to get released? or because most sane people gave up on this and just watch this forum to see how rabid you have to be to still believe this game is going to be even half of what they promise?
I can't say that there is anything to be happy about here .. a game that might have a problem stress testing 200k subs?
"oh wait give us some money for a pre order and we'll be sure to finish this game for you, yea yea thats it" lol hell im laughing now who needs to wait till March
I am really looking forward to this game, the gameplay seems like what ive been waiting for. Having said that, theres a couple things that i dislike with the way aventurine is handling this.
For example, someone posted on their forums that he was fine with the delay, but a few "cookies" would have been nice, like a few screenshots and a bit of info to thank the fans for being patient. The moderator locks the thread and says that this Tasos quote: "Announcements will follow with more information on Darkfall pricing, pre-ordering information, North American player access, and system specifications." consisted of several cookies.
So to thank the fans for having to deal not with one, but 2 delays in under 6 months (the coming in 2008 at the end of the gameplay trailer, and the 22jan release date) that mod considered that telling us the price of the game, what kind of access to the game NA players are expected to have, the system specs, was something of a gift to us and we should feel grateful.
Im still looking forward to the game, but with things like this, the company is losing points in my book.
I would like to comment on Jon Wood: "The first, and perhaps most important thing to note is the promise of an announcement regarding pre-order information. This stood out to me immediately upon reading it as to my recollection, Darkfall had promised that there would be no pre-orders for their game. This seemed to be done as a response to critics who called the game’s validity into question."
And I would like to refer to Tasos: "The pre-orders are necessary so that we can have some measure of the demand."
Jon Wood. I have not studied economics very much, but I can totally understand Aventurine's move on this one. Yes, they might have promised not to make any pre-orders. But, Aventurine is clearly in a difficult situation as they only have two choices. They can commercially launch their game and receive such a great response to sales that they might have to close down any new players wanting to buy the game. Or allow it and risk instability, servers crashing and lag. Or they can do the only reasonable thing and give the players who want the game the most a chance to get it. There are fans who have followed this game for many years. It is unfair for them to miss out on the launch. Therefore, I applaud Aventurine for making it possible for the individual fan to somehow secure himself a position at launch. And I don't think pre-orders are a bad thing. Plans change and I believe they have taken the best approach.
I am also eager to get early access to the game. It is a smart thing to do because it allows those testers who really want to help an ability to do it. I have been upset every day since they started closed hardware testing. I felt I was an important part of the DF fan community, but I was never given a chance to help. Now I can have it if I pay a meaningless amount of dollars. I am perfectly fine with this.
Therefore, I don't feel you should criticize Tasos and Aventurine's decision.
You need to have perspective on this. MMORPGs have long development processes and are known for dates for launches being pushed back. This isn't specific to Darkfall. This is coming from a small publisher as well taking more time. The good thing though about being a small publisher, you have say so in how your game vision plays out, not like the big corporate MMOs of blandness we have today.
I am not saying Darkfall will do great or badly, I am saying you need to keep this in perspective. They also mentioned they will be having an "open beta" of sorts very soon. This will show what state the game is in. Even if there are bugs that is okay, I have never seen a MMO release without some bugs. Even World of Warcraft when I played it opening day ..or what i did get to play. The servers were barely up. I didn't get upset though, I understand these are tough to pull off. EQ when I played it took time to iron out bugs.
I don't really see the joy in watching drama over a game in production. But it is free entertainment. If you enjoy it, that is good. You get to save money in these difficult times.
And you're saying this because you think the game is going to suck, or because it doesn't exist? Because if you are, let me reassure you: it most definitely does exist, and it most definitely doesn't suck.
So now what happens when the game releases in Feb or March, and it rocks? I'm going to be laughing my balls off. Har har!
Oh, and speaking of amatures, why don't you give us a list of game that you've helped make.
I did not say it did not exist, or that it sucked. I simply stated that a KNOWN THIEF AND CON ARTIST who has tried his hand in the industry before, and ran off with alot of investors/fans cash now works with dipshit and dipshit#2.
If I made either of those statements, how are you going to reassure me of anything? Twit...
DiKU, Angband, M59, EQ, EQ2, brief stint with SWG, VG. Currently not doing shit, because there is not shit to do in this industry.
Now if Epic made GoW:Online, I'd be there in a second... Only because it would be different, and they would self publish with a few strategic partners.
hahahaha, vaporware
Order of the White Border aside... you seriously think that a man and a company who has a horrid time promising dates, details, and presentation of their product--- is worthy of gaining the sympathy of a playerbase that runs on faith?
Ever run a business? You can't make false promises like that. The very reaction of skepticism and anti-DF sentiment is the very thing that can topple corporations with too much damage to their public representation. Either you deliver on your promises, or you fold.
You can argue, that developers make false promises all the time, like what happened with a lot of MMOs who didn't deliver everything they hoped to achieve on launch. But as you can imagine, it still damaged their business even with good intentions. Or put their own game on a pedestal, which they can't return from.
Does Tasos deserve the assload of criticism? Hell yes. He's horrible as a Public Representative, if nothing else about his company and its game.
It's amazing the amount of excuses this fan base gives the devs. Any other company would have been already out of business.
It's like if you had a vacuum shop and you tell the guy you will ship it 2 weeks from now, then the two weeks come and you say oh well in a month. A month rolls by and now there is a lawsuit.
Obviously software works in a different stride but you get the picture it just blows my mind how people can/have accepted this for 8+yrs from this washed up fuck of a company.
I did not say it did not exist, or that it sucked. I simply stated that a KNOWN THIEF AND CON ARTIST who has tried his hand in the industry before, and ran off with alot of investors/fans cash now works with dipshit and dipshit#2.
If I made either of those statements, how are you going to reassure me of anything? Twit...
DiKU, Angband, M59, EQ, EQ2, brief stint with SWG, VG. Currently not doing shit, because there is not shit to do in this industry.
Now if Epic made GoW:Online, I'd be there in a second... Only because it would be different, and they would self publish with a few strategic partners.
Congratulations. One of those games didn't suck. And that would be M59. Were you their accountant?
I was burned on Darkfall's little red-headed step sister (Dark & Light)...what crap...I won't be burned again.....EVER on a pre-order scheme....
everyone should learn from one's mistakes....I'll wait and see...
Piss poor project management. There's a surprise. I thought Dan Antonescu was still in Romania? No wonder Darkfall's early character models look so much like Realms of Torment's.
Bwahahaha!
This game isn't real. It's some crazy social experiment to see how long people will wait for a game. Either that, or it is some elaborate prank by Andy Kaufman.
Also, I'd like to see some proof of Dan Antonescu's affiliation with Darkfall Online.
I admire your compassion, Mordacai... but inevitably, some people are too blind that it is imperative they know that by jumping off a cliff--- the chasm below hurts. Some people learn by example... others learn by experience.
I think its just bad etiquette on part of the company. I mean if you always release info at the last minute, its almost always going to rub people the wrong way.
If what they say is true about needing to get authorization to release news and there be a delay every time, then they really need to plan for that and put in requests early so we, the players can get it in a timely fashion. In turn, it would lower the suspicion factor a bit.
But who knows if this game is in fact "real", I really hope it is, and hope it can see the light of day.
Thanks for your input:
That being said, it is a perfectly legitimate criticism. Pre-orders helping to gauge interest in an MMO is not new, in fact, it is a common business practice. Aventurine stated that they would not hold pre-orders for the game, thus either flying in the face of a commonly known practice, or being ignorant of it. In either case, pointing out the inconsistency is completely valid.
I'm pleased to see that you're behind the pre-orders. That's entirely your perogative and is entirely your opinion. The point in the article wasn't to tell people "this is bad" in fact, if you read the section, you'll see that I speak to this:
"Having looked more closely at what was said, it is difficult to deny that something in the company's policies have changed with players who pre-oder getting priority for entrance into the sample and / or launch. that said, the announcement states that preorders are necessary to gauge demand. it is true that many companies use this technique, however, earlier promises made seem to contradict this decision."
Order of the White Border aside... you seriously think that a man and a company who has a horrid time promising dates, details, and presentation of their product--- is worthy of gaining the sympathy of a playerbase that runs on faith?
Ever run a business? You can't make false promises like that. The very reaction of skepticism and anti-DF sentiment is the very thing that can topple corporations with too much damage to their public representation. Either you deliver on your promises, or you fold.
You can argue, that developers make false promises all the time, like what happened with a lot of MMOs who didn't deliver everything they hoped to achieve on launch. But as you can imagine, it still damaged their business even with good intentions. Or put their own game on a pedestal, which they can't return from.
Does Tasos deserve the assload of criticism? Hell yes. He's horrible as a Public Representative, if nothing else about his company and its game.
To put the above in a wordly view, and I am American, USA invaded Iraq on the prenup there were WMD. We found this to not be the case and continued with a new goal of capturing Saddam. Once that goal was obtained, we created a new goal. Do you see a similarity here? Before this war, we were respected in the world even when we were unliked. Now, there really isn't unlike, it's a degredation of character. Tasos is succeeding in this philosophy and might want to ask lil Bush if he'd like to jump on the bandwagon.
Thanks Jon for a nice read.
Good work!
*munching on his popcorn* well the fireworks have started a week early...least i got a good spot.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! and ZING!!! there goes yet another release date for DF. Can't wait to see some certain fanboi's excuses.
I second this. And where do i know the name Dan Antonescu from?
LOLOLOL, Andy Kauffman is my hero!!
Thanks for your input:
That being said, it is a perfectly legitimate criticism. Pre-orders helping to gauge interest in an MMO is not new, in fact, it is a common business practice. Aventurine stated that they would not hold pre-orders for the game, thus either flying in the face of a commonly known practice, or being ignorant of it. In either case, pointing out the inconsistency is completely valid.
I'm pleased to see that you're behind the pre-orders. That's entirely your perogative and is entirely your opinion. The point in the article wasn't to tell people "this is bad" in fact, if you read the section, you'll see that I speak to this:
"Having looked more closely at what was said, it is difficult to deny that something in the company's policies have changed with players who pre-oder getting priority for entrance into the sample and / or launch. that said, the announcement states that preorders are necessary to gauge demand. it is true that many companies use this technique, however, earlier promises made seem to contradict this decision."
Don't sweat Ztyx, Jon. He's just found a new DnL to promote, and gets upset when the truth is spoken.
I have to agree with the author, the pre-orders made me raise an eye brow as well. It makes me want to ask some sharpened questions as well, and I may do so.
That being said, I always thought Darkfall will be a game that will eithe rmake it really big or fail completelly, no middle ground for this one.
I have to admit, also that, I have been exposed to some "leaks" (no I am not in Beta, but MMO player community is not as big as some think, specially for those of us that have been around for a while) I knew that the game had some bugs and glitches, which are minor considering its vastness, but, that many players may not have liked to see in a release.
My personal Pendulum was therefore trembling between the "make it big" or "fail completely" sides, as we approached release, it seemed to lean more towards the fail side, but this announcement now causes it to stabilise at the "make it big" side, still in the beginning of it, yet still on the positive side nevertheless.
I perceive the announcement as a responsible decision (given the fact that I had an inside glimpse).
And that is always positive, it shows that the Devs, in spite of their unorthodox style (for this industry) really do care about their game, and to us players, that is what is really important, the rest is just marketing, and sparkle dust.
Cheers!
anyone who refuses to play this game simply because it was delayed, and nothing more is retarded.
He's dead Jim.
Anyone who believes this means the game is simply delayed is likewise.
Anyone who thinks the only reason for not playing is it being delayed is retarded.
Ha ha
What a load of utter crap.
This game has had delay after delay for the last fewyears.. everytime with some lame exucse.. and every excuse being something they knew dam,n well was going to happen. They KNEW what the interest in their game was.. to not have the servers ready for the load is just asinine and piss poor planning..
They said they wouldnt miss a release date once they set it.. they have.. multiple time.. the beta in Dec (no specific date but a specific month) the actual public release on the 22nd and not some half assed limited test.
The WORST and most insulting part is that they knew this well befor today and let the players play some bullshit watiing game without saying a word.. going weeks before posting anything significant.
The ONLY thing darkfall has going for it right now is that they have no real competitor for a hardcore sandbox PvP MMO... because if they did.. some of us would rather eat shit than buy a product from thhose dishonest, incompetent tools.
We have waited patiently for years.. and to get our hopes up for a decent beta test in Dec and a real release in Jan only to be pushed back yet again.. un fucking acceptable.
All it would have taken was a post a few weeks ago saying you all were behind.. and LET US KNOW that you were falling behind while it was happening.. but no. Manning up and growing a pair was an impossible task for you.
oh and there is NO excuse for this publisher bulllshit.. after all these years you wait till the last minute to line up a publisher? WTF? are you devs that amatuerish?
Anyone who thinks the only reason for not playing is it being delayed is retarded.
Lol,aint that the truth.
It seems for every fanboi that converts another joins the darkside.
ROFL! I Knew this was coming. Only question is, will the game get delayed again a week before DF is due to come out next month? I vote YES IT WILL!!!
Face it, this game is still at least a year from being ready for release. One server!?! Come on!! There's barely any updates on classes, combat system, abilities, crafting, Lore, etc etc etc etc.. Whoever believes this game will be released on Feb 25th is dreaming.. DF will keep getting pushed back until the devs are satisfied at releasing a 35-40% completed product. Right now, It's probably not even 25% complete..
Good luck though.
So umm what rock did all the DF fanboys go crawl under, because i recall around august-november, these forums were crawling with cultist fanboys, now it seems all thats here is the skeptics, aka "trolls". Maybe they have awoken from their trance that they were in and now even they see something amiss here, and have tucked their tail an ran. Feels good to know that I was on the winning team.
I'm real sorry but all I can say is ........... lol
Ummm, you really shouldn't post someone's medical condition on the boards : /
Old news. This was all in the white border.
guess those AI bots didn't live up to the hype..................
Order of the White Border aside... you seriously think that a man and a company who has a horrid time promising dates, details, and presentation of their product--- is worthy of gaining the sympathy of a playerbase that runs on faith?
Ever run a business? You can't make false promises like that. The very reaction of skepticism and anti-DF sentiment is the very thing that can topple corporations with too much damage to their public representation. Either you deliver on your promises, or you fold.
You can argue, that developers make false promises all the time, like what happened with a lot of MMOs who didn't deliver everything they hoped to achieve on launch. But as you can imagine, it still damaged their business even with good intentions. Or put their own game on a pedestal, which they can't return from.
Does Tasos deserve the assload of criticism? Hell yes. He's horrible as a Public Representative, if nothing else about his company and its game.
You base your whole case on the fact that Aventurine has decided not to release back in 2003, in 2005 and then spoke a lot about being ready for beta testing, but still to this date have not released. And now they are pushing it back one month.
I don't think you have a right to criticize those decisions. I admire Aventurine's strength. The game they were ready to release in 2003 was not the game they knew they could make if they kept at it. So they restructured and tried again in Greece with more money and more support. Then they announced the clan beta in 2005. But, they never initiated. I don't know why. But, does it really matter? I think not. I think Aventurine have made the best decisions for this game. And when Tasos gives a presentation of Darkfall in a Greek cafe and talks about MMORPGs being the most complicated software programming. He is correct. Modern day MMORPG players have demands that exceed what most MMORPGs can handle. A small team of developers have to do a hell of a job in order to land their dream successfully so they can keep working on it and make it a reality.
The truth is that the community needs these kinds of projects. They are hard as hell to make. So many of them fail. We've been at the point where theme park is the only thing anyone dares to do. I think Aventurine is a great company and they have made great decisions. They have only announced one date too. They broke no promise. They announced the release date this january. But, the truth is that noone really knew what the release involved. How it would take place and so on. It turns out that the release has become a release of the client and overall access to mass testing for all players. The beginning of a launch. Something which is supposed to come in stages. The one month delay before everyone can start REALLY playing is nothing. And I am inspired by Tasos' public relations. He seems like a developer worth respecting because he is determined, assertive and strong. I know he's doing the right things with Kjetil and the other guys.
And I can't wait to help do everything in my power to give feedback to this development company. They deserve my help more than anybody else out there. Because of the things I've said and because they are doing something noone else has had the discipline too.
I have recently noticed some hostility from a user named Laurann. He is supposedly a game developer too with numerous titles in his backpack. He seems to be a very angry person and criticizes Aventurine a lot. He believes it's a scam. And there are many of you who think this.
But, I will trust in Aventurine and I admire their effort. They are a company who would work through the holidays. They have said many times they work overtime on a regular basis and that they hold very few vacations. Hell. It's the kind of dedication I need to know a developer will do for me as a gamer. A dev team that does everything in their power. Including carefully choosing a publisher that wont force them to do what is not good for the game. I also want developers who take hard decisions because they know what is best. Sometimes us gamers dont know anything, but pretend to know it all.
So I respect Aventurine. And I think some of you are scared or jealous of the strength and discipline they have shown.
ZtyX
poor ztyx...first DnL now Darkfall........
sorry man, you just dont have much luck :(
No way, he's like Makaveli or Jesus!
Wait, Dan Antonescu!!
He was the lead designer for Realms of Torment ( also known as Mourning, Thrones of Chaos, etc. )!
And he's the guy running the company publishing Darkfall?
HAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LoL, That's where I know that name from...oh the memories of that board....
Zorvan....why do you think i posted this?
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/219404
lol@ fanbois
all flaming every doubter for months and now all they are saying is "i'm def getting the preorder.
get a grip people
Thanks for the reply.
Yes. You are actually right. It is legitimate. I do believe the things you've mentioned in the article are relevant. So they deserve to be voiced in an article. And I must say that I have enjoyed reading articles here on MMORPG.COM about Darkfall. It's always nice to hear news about the game.
Perhaps I was slightly wrong and what I really meant was that I hope others will see this news in a brighter light. I am quite active in the community of Darkfall and I don't remember being part of something this expansive. There are really all sorts of people following this game. I'm definitely convinced that the negative comments in this section only represent a smaller part of all those who follow Darkfall. It's just that most are preparing for the game. Chatting with friends and having fun in forumfall, where some troll - but not with a negative attitude.
Anyway. Thanks for the article.
Zorvan....why do you think i posted this?
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/219404
Jon, if this is true, THIS needs to be front page news.
Dan Antonescu HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH DARKFALL
I REPEAT - STOP TROLLING - DAN ANTONESCU HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DARKFALL ONLINE
He is Romanian and thats where he's staying, he's not with Aventurine or Audiovisual (the publisher). They are in Greece, Mourning was Developed in Romania, totally different places with different people
god you people are so impossibly gullible, like little children
I might aswell state that Osama Bin Laden is the fiancial advisor and you people would copy/paste this all over the forums...
mmorpg.com really has one of the most amazing (not in a good way) communities
*cough*
Vaporware
*cough*
Worst promotion for a game that does not exist ever. And come a week before Feb. 25th, it will be delayed again.
No he is not.
The publishing is done by another company called Visual Enterprises SA. I think you know this.
I think this is the perfect solution to the fight between fanboys and trolls, as in the end both were right! The trolls were indeed correct about the game not making the supposed launch date, and the fanboys were right in that it will be released.
You base your whole case on the fact that Aventurine has decided not to release back in 2003, in 2005 and then spoke a lot about being ready for beta testing, but still to this date have not released. And now they are pushing it back one month.
I don't think you have a right to criticize those decisions. I admire Aventurine's strength. The game they were ready to release in 2003 was not the game they knew they could make if they kept at it. So they restructured and tried again in Greece with more money and more support. Then they announced the clan beta in 2005. But, they never initiated. I don't know why. But, does it really matter? I think not. I think Aventurine have made the best decisions for this game. And when Tasos gives a presentation of Darkfall in a Greek cafe and talks about MMORPGs being the most complicated software programming. He is correct. Modern day MMORPG players have demands that exceed what most MMORPGs can handle. A small team of developers have to do a hell of a job in order to land their dream successfully so they can keep working on it and make it a reality.
The truth is that the community needs these kinds of projects. They are hard as hell to make. So many of them fail. We've been at the point where theme park is the only thing anyone dares to do. I think Aventurine is a great company and they have made great decisions. They have only announced one date too. They broke no promise. They announced the release date this january. But, the truth is that noone really knew what the release involved. How it would take place and so on. It turns out that the release has become a release of the client and overall access to mass testing for all players. The beginning of a launch. Something which is supposed to come in stages. The one month delay before everyone can start REALLY playing is nothing. And I am inspired by Tasos' public relations. He seems like a developer worth respecting because he is determined, assertive and strong. I know he's doing the right things with Kjetil and the other guys.
And I can't wait to help do everything in my power to give feedback to this development company. They deserve my help more than anybody else out there. Because of the things I've said and because they are doing something noone else has had the discipline too.
I have recently noticed some hostility from a user named Laurann. He is supposedly a game developer too with numerous titles in his backpack. He seems to be a very angry person and criticizes Aventurine a lot. He believes it's a scam. And there are many of you who think this.
But, I will trust in Aventurine and I admire their effort. They are a company who would work through the holidays. They have said many times they work overtime on a regular basis and that they hold very few vacations. Hell. It's the kind of dedication I need to know a developer will do for me as a gamer. A dev team that does everything in their power. Including carefully choosing a publisher that wont force them to do what is not good for the game. I also want developers who take hard decisions because they know what is best. Sometimes us gamers dont know anything, but pretend to know it all.
So I respect Aventurine. And I think some of you are scared or jealous of the strength and discipline they have shown.
ZtyX
I really don't want to be called a "he" anymore :) Maybe you should tell them the reasons for the hostility, or link some quotes. I'm SO sick of smaller, competent, fresh, legitimate developers getting burned out of publishing deals, and the fans which help inspire potential developers in the genre getting continuously fucked over because of thieves, bald faced lying wannabe devs, and the idiocy from rabid fanbois that help these gangrenous fucks push their false agendas.
So you have him under lock and key so you know where he is and isn't? Otherwise, stow it.
No he is not.
The publishing is done by another company called Visual Enterprises SA. I think you know this.
Guess where that BS company is run from? (Same office as Adventurine) Also take a WAG who sits first seat?
Affected, are you not Zorvan?
-lol-
Guess where that BS company is run from? Also guess who its run by?
OK lets see it
AUDIOVISUAL SA. lets see your proof kid
i'm really excited to see this
watch now.....
No he is not.
The publishing is done by another company called Visual Enterprises SA. I think you know this.
really? cause if you do a search for Visual Enterprises SA, it comes up with Audio Visual Enterprises SA, and there is a Audio Visual Enterprises SA Balcans division based out of romania. called Prooptiki.ro:
Prooptiki Romania
Prooptiki Romania SRL is the Romanian branch of the Greek media group Audiovisual and the leader of the Romanian home entertainment market, holding the DVD distribution licence for Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Metro Goldwyn Mayer, Walt Disney Motion Pictures Studios and Buena Vista Home Entertainment – Disney productions, as well as for BBC video products and a large range of independent movies. Since June 2007 Prooptiki has been the sole Romanian distributor of Sony Pictures productions on Blu-Ray support.
interesting isnt it
really? cause if you do a search for Visual Enterprises SA, it comes up with Audio Visual Enterprises SA, and there is a Audio Visual Enterprises SA Balcans division based out of romania.....interesting isnt it.......
I can't wait until pre-orders are available to watch the humorous insanity which ensues over the next month or so. Be like watching swarms of bees looking for the nest that was just ripped out of the tree...
really? cause if you do a search for Visual Enterprises SA, it comes up with Audio Visual Enterprises SA, and there is a Audio Visual Enterprises SA Balcans division based out of romania.....interesting isnt it.......
It is a network of publishing, has distributors in bulgaria also. Listen, I'm Romanian, I know about Dan since I was there when Mourning went Live
Since I lived in Romania does that make me Dan Antonescu? Since Audiovisual has a distribuitor in Romania that makes it Dan Antonescu's Operation? You know Dracula lived in Romania too, maybe just maybe its a scam to drink the blood of MMORPG enthusiasts around the world...
BLAHHHAAAAHHAHHAAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! delayed? OMFG WHAT A SHOCK!!!!!
Guess where that BS company is run from? Also guess who its run by?
OK lets see it
AUDIOVISUAL SA. lets see your proof kid
i'm really excited to see this
watch now.....
Let's see your proof, "kid". You say with utmost authority that Antonescu is not involved. So obviously you have the proof yourself, correct?
In fact, lets see the board of directors. This should be public info there in Romania, where you live, so get to it.
You base your whole case on the fact that Aventurine has decided not to release back in 2003, in 2005 and then spoke a lot about being ready for beta testing, but still to this date have not released. And now they are pushing it back one month.
I don't think you have a right to criticize those decisions. I admire Aventurine's strength. The game they were ready to release in 2003 was not the game they knew they could make if they kept at it. So they restructured and tried again in Greece with more money and more support. Then they announced the clan beta in 2005. But, they never initiated. I don't know why. But, does it really matter? I think not. I think Aventurine have made the best decisions for this game. And when Tasos gives a presentation of Darkfall in a Greek cafe and talks about MMORPGs being the most complicated software programming. He is correct. Modern day MMORPG players have demands that exceed what most MMORPGs can handle. A small team of developers have to do a hell of a job in order to land their dream successfully so they can keep working on it and make it a reality.
The truth is that the community needs these kinds of projects. They are hard as hell to make. So many of them fail. We've been at the point where theme park is the only thing anyone dares to do. I think Aventurine is a great company and they have made great decisions. They have only announced one date too. They broke no promise. They announced the release date this january. But, the truth is that noone really knew what the release involved. How it would take place and so on. It turns out that the release has become a release of the client and overall access to mass testing for all players. The beginning of a launch. Something which is supposed to come in stages. The one month delay before everyone can start REALLY playing is nothing. And I am inspired by Tasos' public relations. He seems like a developer worth respecting because he is determined, assertive and strong. I know he's doing the right things with Kjetil and the other guys.
And I can't wait to help do everything in my power to give feedback to this development company. They deserve my help more than anybody else out there. Because of the things I've said and because they are doing something noone else has had the discipline too.
I have recently noticed some hostility from a user named Laurann. He is supposedly a game developer too with numerous titles in his backpack. He seems to be a very angry person and criticizes Aventurine a lot. He believes it's a scam. And there are many of you who think this.
But, I will trust in Aventurine and I admire their effort. They are a company who would work through the holidays. They have said many times they work overtime on a regular basis and that they hold very few vacations. Hell. It's the kind of dedication I need to know a developer will do for me as a gamer. A dev team that does everything in their power. Including carefully choosing a publisher that wont force them to do what is not good for the game. I also want developers who take hard decisions because they know what is best. Sometimes us gamers dont know anything, but pretend to know it all.
So I respect Aventurine. And I think some of you are scared or jealous of the strength and discipline they have shown.
ZtyX
Are you on Aventurine's payroll?
Because this sounds just like the kind of BS that comes out of PR i would expect out of AoC pre-launch.
OK lets see it
AUDIOVISUAL SA. lets see your proof kid
i'm really excited to see this
watch now.....
Let's see your proof, "kid". You say with utmost authority that Antonescu is not involved. So obviously you have the proof yourself, correct?
No it was you two who SHOUTED on the forums that DAN ANTONESCU is involved in Darkfall only because Audiovisual has a Disribution network in Romania.
I told you no, he is not involved with Audiovisual, not listed anywhere as working there and especially not in Greece. You know since the guys working on DnL were French, but in Mauritius I can say that Ubisoft, based in France is a scam company - according to you people's logic -
You started the rumor that Dan was involved, so the burden of proof is on you.
If i was you though, I would just drop it
lol
who honestly didn't see this coming?
seriously...who out there thought it was going to be released on time?
OK lets see it
AUDIOVISUAL SA. lets see your proof kid
i'm really excited to see this
watch now.....
Let's see your proof, "kid". You say with utmost authority that Antonescu is not involved. So obviously you have the proof yourself, correct?
No it was you two who SHOUTED on the forums that DAN ANTONESCU is involved in Darkfall only because Audiovisual has a Disribution network in Romania.
I told you no, he is not involved with Audiovisual, not listed anywhere as working there and especially not in Greece. You know since the guys working on DnL were French, but in Mauritius I can say that Ubisoft, based in France is a scam company - according to you people's logic -
You started the rumor that Dan was involved, so the burden of proof is on you.
If i was you though, I would just drop it
Actually, no. I wasn't the first to say it. Read te thread before typing.
You, however, came out stating completely that he is not involved in any way, shape, or form. So, that burden is, in fact, on you.
And if you were me, you'd know telling me to drop something before I get a definitive answer to a question from someone with knowledge ( apparently you don't hav any or we wouldn't still be debating ) is futile.
And I can understand that. I don't like this idea either. But, Aventurine is one of those small companies. They just started in 1999 as Razorwax. They worked 4 people in one room to make their dream come true and they have been on their way and kept at it for so long. They are not your enemy. And they have taken the fight up against publisher who want to decide for gaming studios. They have even brought out a new publisher that never published games before. Visual Enterprises SA is new on this scene. This is a good thing.
I really think Aventurine is not the ones you should have a problem. Unless you have some secret knowledge you want to share with us all.
I really believe in their project. I think it's admirable that they can work so dedicated for so many years and still try to do their best. They deserve the anticipation and they deserve the extra money for pre-orders.
Ultimately, if Darkfall turns out to have problems at launch at least I know that Darkfall won't fail. Many players are bound to leave again after they find out how actionpacked Darkfall is. Agon is basically one big battlezone designed for epic clashes in the middle of the map and with naval battles around the map. This world is not for all. I can understand why they didn't anticipate this big of a fanbase. And I can understand if some will leave.
But, actually. I don't think Darkfall has any chance of failing. The money from the initial subscriptions and now the pre-order will carry a long way. It will probably cover their investment so far. Not sure. I didn't do that math. I just know it's a lot of money. And Darkfall has the strength and capacity to work at absolute minimum developer power. All they really need is basically those top developers to continue doing the work they know so well after so many years of fighting for this baby, Darkfall. .. For Darkfall to be successful and for them to be able to hire more staff would be exceptionally wonderful. Imagine the things they could do to the game. Even so. The game is reported to be fun and new. I don't care if it has flaws or run at a low community in 1 year. As long as Darkfall lives I am happy to endure any difficulties with it. It's simply a revolutionary game and deserves to be out there to give a full loot pvp experience without lag to people who want to play in a new 3d world rather than having to resolute to older titles like Runescape or Shadowbane.
2009 is going to be a good year for mmorpgs. 2010 too. Finally, some of the next generation mmorpgs focusing on the sandbox are coming out.
Not going to debate the pro or con DF agenda here.
Only going to toss out a few words on business sense to echo what others have said.
As a company in a volitale industry (MMO's are a very volatile industry right now) you simply can't have this kind of track record. You can't hype a product one year and not release it, then do it again and then again. You -especially- can't do this if you have yet to release any -real- information about your product let alone have failed to go about even basic advertising methods. The DF team continues this trend and considering their game is already targeting a niche audience it just shows a severe lack of understanding on consumer responses.
I'm glad we have a dev team that are devs first and business second, but to not show any kind of foresight like this really doesn't create any brand confidence.
So they have 200,000 beta apps....so? The chances are many, many people have submitted multiple applications. It's not -completely- illogical to go so far as to say 100,000 people could have just submitted 2 apps a piece, though it is unlikely. Either way WAR had what? 600,000 beta apps? I mean I know Aventurine is a small company, but it's not like 200,000 people just all of a sudden submitted apps this week. If they either just completely forgot to plan for that or it took them over an entire -month- to realize it/get approval for the press release then that shows a severe lack of coordination.
Yeah they have a lot of stuff to deal with. A lot of stuff that they listed as reasons for the delay should have been seen coming months ago. I'm not going to call vaporware, but I wouldn't pre-order this. All of you fanbois out there should pull your heads up because it's up to Aventurine to impress you. Right now I honestly get the feeling that these guys -know- that they have a few hundred thousand rabid, frothing fans that will do whatever they want them to. This includes wagging their tails and waiting patiently no matter what happens like a bunch of pathetic puppies.
As consumers we do have the right to demand a certain level of information on a product before we buy it. Aventurine still hasn't even released system specs, retail price and monthly fees associated with the game let alone anything like a list of -basic- skills or abilities. If you heard about this awesome car that was coming out that would have all these nifty sounding features that you want, but as the release day for it got closer and closer and the company wouldn't tell you what the car actually had, it's basic information like gas mileage......would you pay for it in advance or wait until they unveil the finished product? This isn't really any different. In short, DON'T PRE-ORDER THIS GAME until Aventurine releases basic information on what their released product will be.
Let's see your proof, "kid". You say with utmost authority that Antonescu is not involved. So obviously you have the proof yourself, correct?
No it was you two who SHOUTED on the forums that DAN ANTONESCU is involved in Darkfall only because Audiovisual has a Disribution network in Romania.
I told you no, he is not involved with Audiovisual, not listed anywhere as working there and especially not in Greece. You know since the guys working on DnL were French, but in Mauritius I can say that Ubisoft, based in France is a scam company - according to you people's logic -
You started the rumor that Dan was involved, so the burden of proof is on you.
If i was you though, I would just drop it
Actually, no. I wasn't the first to say it. Read te thread before typing.
You, however, came out stating completely that he is not involved in any way, shape, or form. So, that burden is, in fact, on you.
And if you were me, you'd know telling me to drop something before I get a definitive answer to a question from someone with knowledge ( apparently you don't hav any or we wouldn't still be debating ) is futile.
OK now you are just blatantly trolling or trying in a very bad way to save face.
He is not listed as working there and absolutely no one has ever heard of him there (call the distributors in RO if u dont believe me) and he lives in another country.
Logical conclusion: he is not involved in this project!
So to state again: DAN ANTONESCU FROM MOURNING DEVELOPMENT TEAM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AUDIOVISUAL SA (Darkfall Online's Publisher)
Good point. Why are they suddenly not credible just because they have a branch in Romania? It's silly.
So can you go ahead and prove that Dan A works with them and plans to send CD:RW cds out to people who pre-order Darkfall?
I doubt it Tasos or the other devs, especially the 4 guys who been working on the game for a decade now would allow it. Besides. They have a good investor in Spiros. I think he is good for more. They are clearly not rushing things. They have proved time and again that they dont rush things. But, they have shown progress and their client looks fucking amazing in the gameplay trailer and in the Athens Digital Week video by Shaar.
The proof should be up to you since you come with the accusation when there is no reason to believe it apart from someone claiming it. In fact, Laurann. Sorry, I didn't realize you are a woman. I thought you were a man because you seem to be hating so much. Im not used to women being this vicious in gaming circles. I thought it was only for RL.
Why don't you go ahead and explain?
Quote:
No it was you two who SHOUTED on the forums that DAN ANTONESCU is involved in Darkfall only because Audiovisual has a Disribution network in Romania.
I told you no, he is not involved with Audiovisual, not listed anywhere as working there and especially not in Greece. You know since the guys working on DnL were French, but in Mauritius I can say that Ubisoft, based in France is a scam company - according to you people's logic -
You started the rumor that Dan was involved, so the burden of proof is on you.
If i was you though, I would just drop it
Yes. I completely agree. Good point.
Let's see your proof, "kid". You say with utmost authority that Antonescu is not involved. So obviously you have the proof yourself, correct?
No it was you two who SHOUTED on the forums that DAN ANTONESCU is involved in Darkfall only because Audiovisual has a Disribution network in Romania.
I told you no, he is not involved with Audiovisual, not listed anywhere as working there and especially not in Greece. You know since the guys working on DnL were French, but in Mauritius I can say that Ubisoft, based in France is a scam company - according to you people's logic -
You started the rumor that Dan was involved, so the burden of proof is on you.
If i was you though, I would just drop it
Actually, no. I wasn't the first to say it. Read te thread before typing.
You, however, came out stating completely that he is not involved in any way, shape, or form. So, that burden is, in fact, on you.
And if you were me, you'd know telling me to drop something before I get a definitive answer to a question from someone with knowledge ( apparently you don't hav any or we wouldn't still be debating ) is futile.
OK now you are just blatantly trolling or trying in a very bad way to save face.
He is not listed as working there and absolutely no one has ever heard of him there (call the distributors in RO if u dont believe me) and he lives in another country.
Logical conclusion: he is not involved in this project!
So to state again: DAN ANTONESCU FROM MOURNING DEVELOPMENT TEAM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AUDIOVISUAL SA (Darkfall Online's Publisher)
Um, we're supposed to take your word on a forum?
Why do I need to call them long-distance ( and with an added language barrier ) when you live right there? Are you telling me they have no website showing their directors and employees? There's nothing tangible that you can link here to say definitively that he doesn't work there other than your word?
Okay, 'nuff said.
The proof should be up to you since you come with the accusation when there is no reason to believe it apart from someone claiming it. In fact, Laurann. Sorry, I didn't realize you are a woman. I thought you were a man because you seem to be hating so much. Im not used to women being this vicious in gaming circles. I thought it was only for RL.
Why don't you go ahead and explain?
Quote:
No it was you two who SHOUTED on the forums that DAN ANTONESCU is involved in Darkfall only because Audiovisual has a Disribution network in Romania.
I told you no, he is not involved with Audiovisual, not listed anywhere as working there and especially not in Greece. You know since the guys working on DnL were French, but in Mauritius I can say that Ubisoft, based in France is a scam company - according to you people's logic -
You started the rumor that Dan was involved, so the burden of proof is on you.
If i was you though, I would just drop it
Yes. I completely agree. Good point.
You realize that you have no credibility at all on any board in these forums after DnL, right? Just checking.
why dont we all just load up, head to greece and kick the shit out of someone at adventurine until some answers are given. nothing like choking someone to an inch of their life to make them talk.
Good point. Why are they suddenly not credible just because they have a branch in Romania? It's silly.
So can you go ahead and prove that Dan A works with them and plans to send CD:RW cds out to people who pre-order Darkfall?
I doubt it Tasos or the other devs, especially the 4 guys who been working on the game for a decade now would allow it. Besides. They have a good investor in Spiros. I think he is good for more. They are clearly not rushing things. They have proved time and again that they dont rush things. But, they have shown progress and their client looks fucking amazing in the gameplay trailer and in the Athens Digital Week video by Shaar.
Have faith Alpha Participant (I know which game :) ) Zytx or w/e your name is.
The whole development of this game and its community relations has been amateurish and unprofessional from the beginning and these traits will be the games downfall.
Imo DA is NOT involved at all
We're talking about another projet, probably another disaster but not about same people.
You' ll find more unprofessionnal people than real professionnals in the world. (Non professionnal are easy to find specially on économic crises times) A few people dreaming about a huge projet without professionnal qualities , funds and contacts to make it. I could call them "old and bad students" dreaming about changing the world in their parent's house but also incompetent and non professionnal "business men". (I don't think the words are appropriate )
Good students , good artists and creatives goes working to Microsoft, IBM , or Blizzard (etc etc etc) never to smallest cies in the world. (I'm not talking about medium or small but professionnal Cies but about smallest and unprofessional ones that's different)
DFO is a pure unprofessional production, nothing has been prepared for launch. (cf Jon's text)
No serious BT, no stress test, no spec. given on this poor and unprofessional website, no payments, no prices for the game, not even details about the size of the client. And what about Internet Security for payment ? Did you think 1 sec about it ? 100% unprofessionnal that's why I suggest you to take CARE before preordering something.
it's not a pb of gaming, of PVP or PVE or world or graphics or gameplay. Adults don't really care about gameplay , they care about security of transactions, etc.
Nothing to see, nothing to try, no security on the website for the moment, no spec = no money.
Easy.
*******************************
" I have faith in all good projects because I am not a cynic and a pessimist like Zorvan.
I admire games that try to do things differently for the good of the gamers."
SO I 'm sorry to say but i must admit that you speak and think like a child.
A child thinks everything is real.
And wake up, we're not talking about a Treatment Action Campaign against AIDS but only talking about
A GAME
Tasos isn't Buddhah he isn't the Messiah.
He only wants to make MONEY with a GAME
Think about it .(if you can, not sure)
Oh well......
I had a feeling this would happen, it's a indy developer.
To be honest all you guys that are giving up on DF due to a 30 day push back wouldnt of played the game for long anyway.
If a little thing like a delay bothers you what would you do if you found more then half the promised features missing at launch (something thats common for indy mmos)?
Just move along guys let the niche DF fans have this one all to our selves
While I am looking forward and hoping this game will live up to expectations. You would think most people would be over MMo hype by now.
Seriously, it is absolutely amazing how fast something goes viral nowadays and people still get all caught up in the hype.
Remember IT?
All i can say is Shit... thats the first thing I said when i saw this post... hell, I think i might be saying this Feb 15 too
, Hopefully i dont have to
Have faith Alpha Participant (I know which game :) ) Zytx or w/e your name is.
I have faith in all good projects because I am not a cynic and a pessimist like Zorvan.
I admire games that try to do things differently for the good of the gamers.
www.youtube.com/watch
Its a good thing. If they need more time, they need more time. This isnt Blizzard people, they obviously dont have those resources. They did the right thing
Hello Sir or Madame,
My name is honorable Dr, Anthony Gyros MD and I represent the estate of beta tester Randel Fox who was taken ill and recently died during the recently troubling delays. Having no close clan or guild ties mister honorable Mr. Fox wished to pass his beta account on to you whom he has long admired in the forums. Unfortunately Mr. Fox never completely files his Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and it has now lapsed into such a state as it will need to be re-applied with a one time fee of $200 USD at which time the beta account will be shipped to you under armed guard, although fees for the guards may have to be paid in advance based on your location you will be able to recover these fees when the Non Discloser Agreement (NDA) is lifted soon and will be applied to your pre-order.
Please email me at your convenience to arange the wire transfer of $200 UDS and we may move forward with this endevour.
Many thank yous and God bless and watch over you
Honorable Dr. Anthony Gyros MD
DFO- Breaking new ground in the MMO419 genre.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA ... AHAHA ..... AHAHAHA ......... AHA .......
lol this game just refuses to launch. Taking bets now on if it gets delayed again.
Jon, thanks for the balanced editorial.
I know MMORPG.COM has talked about getting a preview of Darkfall. I think it would go a long way toward validating Darkfall if Aventurine allowed MMORPG.COM into the closed beta.
What is the status of MMORPG.COM's request to preview the game?
good, it doesn't take a genius to know when you are not able to properly release an MMOG.
Hmm, or maybe it does.
Have faith Alpha Participant (I know which game :) ) Zytx or w/e your name is.
I have faith in all good projects because I am not a cynic and a pessimist like Zorvan.
I admire games that try to do things differently for the good of the gamers.
Hate to break this to you but it's called being blind. Blind to the hype that a gaming company is willing to spew out to ensure someone, such as yourself is willing to pay a reasonable amount of money on a uncertain game. Most people will become skeptic after their first real hype scam, but I guess it takes others a few hits to the face(and wallet) to realize these gaming companies will do and say whatever they can to get people to purchase their product.
This happens far to often and is really starting to take a toll on the gaming industry as a whole, just like laurann stated quite a few times earlier in this thread. Hopefully one day in the future, gaming companies will actually put more effort into developing their games then hyping them.
The delay is not surprising at all.
For those of you waiting or hanging around on the forums & would enjoy some excellent ship crafting & combat in a 1720's Age of Sail mmo you would do yourself no harm in trying out the 14-days free trial of Pirates of the Burning Sea.
The amount people are freaking out about this is sad. The general level of thought behind half of the posts in this thread is rediculous. Anyway, Give it a week and you will have plenty to talk about.
If they need more time, Tasos needs to stop running his mouth about how feature complete and finished the game is and how it was ready for launch over a month ago.
I did not say it did not exist, or that it sucked. I simply stated that a KNOWN THIEF AND CON ARTIST who has tried his hand in the industry before, and ran off with alot of investors/fans cash now works with dipshit and dipshit#2.
If I made either of those statements, how are you going to reassure me of anything? Twit...
DiKU, Angband, M59, EQ, EQ2, brief stint with SWG, VG. Currently not doing shit, because there is not shit to do in this industry.
Now if Epic made GoW:Online, I'd be there in a second... Only because it would be different, and they would self publish with a few strategic partners.
Congratulations. One of those games didn't suck. And that would be M59. Were you their accountant?
Oh GTFO. Seriously. You asked that question thinking he had no dev experience, and when he does (have experience) now all the games he worked on sucked? GTFO.
Give me a break, if he really did work on all those MUDs/games, which I can't verify, then he does have a hell of a lot of experience, and, thusly, insight into the industry that we don't have. Where does your insight into this situation come from? Are you a beta tester? Employee of Aventurine? Do you have a friend whose brothers' roomates' cousins's step-father is an employee at Aventurine? Hmm?
Oh, and those games he listed most definitely do NOT suck, and many of them are considered some of the most influential, and revolutionary games of all time.
Well said. I personally dont care how long it takes to come out, as long as it works and does what it proposes to do. This is one of the few games that might actually be interesting to play (if its done well) unlike other games like boring old Warhammer. Darkfall is a much more ambitious and complex mmo than any of the other themepark games and its also being made by a very small company so its gonna be extremely difficult for them. In contrast Warhammer is as simplistic and unoriginal as it gets (in terms of an mmo anyway) and Mythic is (or was) a much larger and more respected company with experience at making a rather good mmo in the past (DAoC)......and yet the game they released was shit.
I actually respect the fact that Aventurine refuse to release an unfinished product despite the fact that it pisses people off. Who cares what the masses think anyway? I dont see any point in hurling personal insults at Aventurine when they are the ones struggling to make and release a game that is actually different to all the other bullshit we have been seeing for years.......but yeah carry on waving your pitch forks in the air.
*sigh*
If a delayed launch during testing is a red flag...then you might as well just say that every MMO in the history of the genre has red flagged to you. Seriously...out of all the things you people COULD be trashing DF for....you pick this. I really wanna trash DF with you guys, I really do. Why do you insist on making it so hard for me? Why do you guys pick the most retarded crap to whine about? Stop forcing me to be on the dirty side of the fence...PLEASE!
Delayed launches alone isn't the issue - suddenly delaying at the very last minute is. If you understand the industry at all, you know that at launch - 1 week it is ALL on autopilot. Everything should be in the pipeline of publisher->distributor->retailer by then and if it isn't you have a crapload of problems. The late nature of this announcement means at the least that the DF people have been bullshitting about their readiness to launch. Combine it with changes to their pre-order policy and some of the other recent "noise" and you have every sign of a company desperate to salvage what is about to be a massive failure of a launch. Exercise a few brain cells next time and think about the implications behind an announcement like this.
PS To be clear, I couldn't care less if the game launches well or not, I'm just bored and like posting..besides maybe my scepticism will save some poor schmoo $50 who otherwise might have lept on the preorder.
Ha. It's not that they are REFUSING to launch it, it's that they CAN'T launch it (based on their comments in the press release). Also NO ONE would be trolling/flaming/arguing if Taco-boy would follow the example of better run companies and SHUT THE FUCK UP. People are pissed about AoC and War and Vanguard because they promised the moon then showed us their asses and Tacos (which I shall forever now call him so don't bother correcting me) is playing into that same stupid game.
When *cough-if* the game does release it will be just as buggy and promise free as any other game and MAYBE they'll live long enough to straighten it out before SOE swoops in and "saves them".
It is not just a one month push back. They continually do this. When they said game would be released end of december and pushed it back to jan 22, people said, it is only 1 month. Then they say in february and people again say it is only 1 month.
These delays aren't just a month or 2 here and there or 6 months. That, I can expect, but it has been for years!
I wouldn't be surprised to have another delay come end of february. There might not be one though if pre-orders do come out. I saw that coming a mile away even when it was denied there would be pre-orders. It is a dark and light ordeal all over again. People won't believe it, even after it happens. Hell, a ton of people didn't believe dnl was absolute crap even when the people who could actually get on to play said so.
People will believe what they want to believe. Just remember, it is only another month, again, until the next one and next one. I was looking forward to this game years ago, but not anymore. I had a shred of hope that something decent might come out of this eventually, but no longer. It is not even the delay either. I knew it would be delay. It couldn't be otherwise. Now though, the pre-orders? lol.
They already said they are having problems with their partners. Money is one of those. They are going to try and get as much out of this as they can before it all falls apart. From the list of problems, I don't see the new release date being viable either.
There new main focus will be getting up those pre-order forms, lol.
I kinda feel like i just got kicked in the nuts, so fuck it, i'll play a different mmo for the next month
You know, a couple of the apologists made somewhat descent points. No a delay isn't the end of the world, but with things the way they are now economically (and especially in Greece), it might be the end of Adventurine as we know it. It will be difficult at best to recover from this disaster of project management. Do I blame the few guys actually employed there to build this game? Not really. They are using the cheaper software for gaming, aka POSER and many pre-built Daz3d models.
Those of us who went to school for CGFX remember that we usually used poser in the very beginning because it offered a very quick and dirty visual aid to the theory. Then we learned Max and Lightwave. Some of us lucky bastards even got to learn Maya. I guarantee none of those three programs were used in the making of the graphics for this game, with the exception of maybe Max for the environments (poser doesn't do anything but character animation well). With that said, it is evident that they were using this project to basically learn how to put a game together. That part is admirable, but you also do that as part of the course program these days, and results in far less tarnish to your career. Not when you are trying to put out the game many, many have been looking for, for years. That is just bad business. I strongly urge the greek artists to come to the states and pursue real degrees in video game making.
Tasos on the other hand, is a classic con artist. I have to agree with Laurann every bit about him. As I have stated before (and yes, this is as close as I am getting to an I told you so), he exudes every bit about what is dirty in the business, making everyone else look much worse than we do ourselves. Not only that, but he is clearly incompetent as a business manager and shouldn't be allowed to run a lemonade stand. Those who forget their history with this project, will be doomed to fulfill its D&L destiny.
Other companies, that you know are actually making a game. This history behind this so called game, and the people behind it can no longer be given the benefit of doubt. There is more than just cause for concern regarding this whole game. This person Tasos now says, with a week, YES a week till launch they need more etsting and limitied players and delayed launch etc. Wasnt this the same person saying for damn years they have the ebst AI in the world testing the game, along with the ebst QA etam ever. And they had done real world simulations with thousands of ai bots or whatever in the game. This person Tasos, spews lies and lies on an epic scale. Wouldnt be suprised if they make a pre order page or soemthing then take everyoens money and do a runner.
You may very well have valid concerns there. Which is actually why I wrote this article. I wanted to present folks with what i asw as the facts of the issue so that they could make up their own minds one way or the other. I'm not here to tell people how to think.
I'm just sayin is all. :)
The article itself sounded way too much like damage control for Aventurine. Sure, all those reasons are valid and do not stand out on there own, but the sheer number of those little excuses just make this all look like poorly coordinated show at best, a farce at worst.
i feel sorry for stradden becaues he has to listen to you bitch
what an absolutely beautiful THIRD post .. my god give this man a Stickie for real ..
*stands and applauds* I wish my third post has been as poignant.
People are pissed that the game isn't being released prematurely.... makes perfect sense.
Quit being so desperate to play this game, just relax until it comes out. And if you find every other MMOG to suck atm(which is mostly true because Mythic abandoned their only gem) then just don't play one. lol, now i'm a heretic.
Another Stickie ... Stickie this .. holy shit this is funny!!!!
And anyone who recommends reading material written by Bill Doh'Reilly probably quoted that philosphical nugget straight out of his book.
*popcorn
oh~~~ i've been waiting for so long time. is this news confirmed? now that i've been through a longwaiting. i may wait for another period. do hope the waiting is worthy.
ahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahhahahahhahahaha i knew it would be delayed.
Absolutly useless, expected though.... can't even stick to a scheudule...
thank you john for telling us this exciting news. do hope this new launch will create new miracle. let's wait and see!
You dont find it odd then announce this 1 week from launch> When all games are have gone veirtually gold, and all there is left to do is sort the last bits out. If they had said this months ago, but 1 week till launch lol.
Thats my whole point, if there was something really fishy, they would have delayed it longer. Then I would be all over the possible vaporware rumors. Adventurine obviously has very little experience in launching a MMO and thought they could get stuff done that is taking much more time and testing then they thought. We will all know in 30 days whether or not this game is for real.
I think that we all deep down inside where expecting this delay.
I am absolutely stunned this game is delayed! This is outrageous! There were no indicators, no prior examples of delays, and absolutely nothing in my own head (the common sense area of the game) would lead me to believe this game wasn't going to be ready on the 22nd!
I guess I need to read farther back in the thread for all the fanbois screaming "this will only help our game!"
Well as Tasos said. Essentially he doesn't care what any of you think. Gamer's always say they want one thing and then when they get it, they figure out they didn't want it in the first place. Then they decide they want somthing else.
Personally I am 100% behind a developer that tells the consumer to get jacked and that they will release a product when they are good and ready. MMO's these days suffer from too much "I want" "I want" "I want" syndrome. Half the problem with games these days is they try to cater to any loud whiner they come across. If Darkfall isn't ready to launch it isn't ready to launch. If they launched tomorrow half of you whiners would be out rioting and setting fire to cars once you ran in to your first bug.
Darkfall will launch when it is ready. Darkfall will be Darkfall and no amount of whining will change it. You will either like the product and it will sell or you will hate the product and it will flop. At least I can rest assured that it will be what it was meant to be and not mutate into whatever the flavor of the month is on the MMO scene.
not suprised but it was a good article and i hope that they can stick to their new release date cuz if it never releases we will never here the end of it on this website
Totally agree. I love how people say that they are looking/hoping for a great game/MMO, then totally lose it when the company pushes back the release date/launch. We all know that if a game launches too early what happens: People play for 2 weeks, get sick at their stomach for the *beta* that they are paying to *test*, and then leave the game. This is all followed up by a forum-troll-flaming ceremony that involves visiting all forum sites dedicated/mentioning the aforementioned game (and the company that developed it), and telling everyone to avoid at all cost because it sucks so much.
On the other hand, you have....this. You have people that begin the flame-war against the company/developer for NOT releasing a product that the company feels is not ready to launch. This is the epitome of immaturity and idiocy.
The reasons for this delay seem to be legitimate (notice I used the word *seem*). This past year has suffered one of the worst economic crisis we've seen/experienced in this generation, affecting GLOBAL economy. Maybe, just maybe, some of these economic *woes* have affected the industry to a point where previous plans no longer will work, and other measures must be taken.
Well-done on company's part, I say. And, to the person that mentioned something about lack of product marketing? Marketing is a sinkhole of money. Maybe they made the decision to use their money more wisely than sinking it in massive marketing. And, they've not done too bad for themselves as Darkfall was the most-anticipated game for early 2009. So, the word is out there in the MMO community. Whether it's mentioned by those that guffaw at the idea of Darkfall, or those that sing it's praises the word is in the community. Maybe at launch or after launch the advertising/marketing will pick up to target the few that haven't heard of it.
Peace.
Well although this is a bit of bad news it's not surprising in the least. I've been saying since they announced the January release date that they weren't giving enough time for OB/stress testing. To all the people that are crying foul over this I have this to say... So far I and I'm pretty sure no one else has paid one cent to Aventurine for anything so this delay has cost us nothing. If your dubious about Aventurine's motives I've got a news flash for you... You don't have to pre-order or pay anything until whenever the game releases if you choose not to. I know I wont. I want to see the game for myself before I'll spend a dime on it or at the very least some reviews from some trusted mainstream media. I have and will continue to give Aventurine the "benifit of the doubt" as doing so doesn't cost me anything. It won't cost any of you anything either so chill out a little. It is just a game after all.
Bren
Just deliver a great game in a timely fashion. The timely fashion portion of that request is a target that was missed long ago.
This particular delay isn't exactly a dagger in the heart of Darkfall, but it certainly goes to strike at their reputation again. I mean, who isn't saying 'I told you so' or having themselves a dark little chuckle in the innermost chambers of their cold hearts?
Totally agree. I love how people say that they are looking/hoping for a great game/MMO, then totally lose it when the company pushes back the release date/launch. We all know that if a game launches too early what happens: People play for 2 weeks, get sick at their stomach for the *beta* that they are paying to *test*, and then leave the game. This is all followed up by a forum-troll-flaming ceremony that involves visiting all forum sites dedicated/mentioning the aforementioned game (and the company that developed it), and telling everyone to avoid at all cost because it sucks so much.
On the other hand, you have....this. You have people that begin the flame-war against the company/developer for NOT releasing a product that the company feels is not ready to launch. This is the epitome of immaturity and idiocy.
The reasons for this delay seem to be legitimate (notice I used the word *seem*). This past year has suffered one of the worst economic crisis we've seen/experienced in this generation, affecting GLOBAL economy. Maybe, just maybe, some of these economic *woes* have affected the industry to a point where previous plans no longer will work, and other measures must be taken.
Well-done on company's part, I say. And, to the person that mentioned something about lack of product marketing? Marketing is a sinkhole of money. Maybe they made the decision to use their money more wisely than sinking it in massive marketing. And, they've not done too bad for themselves as Darkfall was the most-anticipated game for early 2009. So, the word is out there in the MMO community. Whether it's mentioned by those that guffaw at the idea of Darkfall, or those that sing it's praises the word is in the community. Maybe at launch or after launch the advertising/marketing will pick up to target the few that haven't heard of it.
Peace.
Nice post, but... They could do free marketing by lifting NDA, if game is great as they say, those "thousands" of beta testers would do job better then millions dollars.
Also I think I saw many time quotes like from years ago when Tasos said game is complete and just need testing. This is really strange now when they push back release date.
Why does the MMO Community feel like game developers owe them anything in this day and age? Developers do not owe the community anything until they have have put their money into their product. This idea that somehow Adventurine owes everyone here answers and a reasonable release date is laughable. The company owes consumers a quality product that they will not regret spending money on. Until the money changes hands, they don't owe you anything.
What have any of you done for Adventurine lately? I don't see any of you volunteering to invest in their product or help with the coding.
I could say the opposite is true. Gamers don't owe developers anything either. The only difference is if gamers piss off developers theres nothing much the devs can do about it. If devs piss off gamers its a whole different story. You want to "invest" in their product? Go ahead and buy the pre-order. I dare you. Buy the pre-order.
To put it bluntly:
This doesn't surprise me at all.
Not saying they won't release it, I'm sure they will. But anyone who's surprised by a delay by Adventurine needs their heads examined.
Actually I do plan to buy the pre order. What is the worst thing that can happen? DarkFall never releases and I get screwed out of $10? Better than Age of Conan or Pirates of the Burning Sea where I had to wait a few months to realize I was getting screwed. I would prefer a game company go ahead and screw me up front, then I don't have to spend money on subscription fees. Somhow it just seems more honest that way.
This was certainly expected. It is Aventurine's modus operandi since forever...tease..delay...tease delay.
Next we will hear that the game is coming out in the spring....then the summer....
Until they let a well known site do an actual review of the game, the only thing that can be done is label this game VAPORWARE!
This game is most probably the scam of the decade.
.... surprise!
I have to admit, this time I actually thought Aventurine would release as scheduled...
Edit: Well, just took the time to read the article (had to reply as soon as I readthe news :P) and they're delivering an open beta on the 22nd. Getting the chance to at laest try the game and having it delayed by only 1 month...I guess it's not THAT bad. But seriously, Tasos has to stop giving away false dates. Makes the company look completely unprofessional.
i really dont know a lot about this game other than a lot of people seam to slag it off because of the constant delays . nothing i ve heard would make me want to go out an buy it or subscribe . this game sounds like its over before its begun .
We have a winner!
It's the most ambitious MMO project ever attempted on the PVP side thats for sure. I think if they fail spectacularly you will probably see this as the last sandbox MMO attempt for a very long time.
I almost wish I could see the looks on Darkfall fan boys' faces when the realize the game won't be launched on January 22nd.
I am sorry for being a troll, but I have to get this out from my system:
HAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA - Suckers!
Don't worry I think Darkfall might be second place for the Vaporware award right behind Duke Nukem Forever!
I first heard of the game several years ago, but never really followed it, as I was in high school then and did not necessarily have the time to. Also, WoW was released around senior year, so, my attention was directed elsewhere. It was only recently that my brother re-drew my attention to the game, mentioning its qualities being similiar to UO, which was/is my favorite MMO of all time (pre-tram).
Commenting more directly on the issue:
I really don't see what the big deal is. Why evaluate so deeply as to consider the "professionalism" of the company or lackthereof? I am willing to wager that multiple users on this forum are experienced players and thus, understand games and release dynamics. Some games are hyped, anticipation rises, delays happen, disappointment along with it, but you just occupy yourself with something else until you reach the next speculated release date.
Fanboy or hater, it's simple game-release dynamics. There really isn't any ground to kick sand in someone's face. One might question why someone chooses to spend their time harassing others on a forum, perhaps it reveals the character of the person behind the screen/and or the reason why they are behind it.
Sorry that many of you, including myself, are disappointed, but there is no use crying over spilled milk.
I wonder how many of these Anti-Darkfall posts come from WOW people. People tend to hate anything they are threatened by. I wonder how many of these WOW raid guilds could hack it in Darkfall's idea of PVP.
*puts on flame retardent suit and hunkers down*
I will not be buying the game over this garbage excuse.
Bunch of effin' lying bastards.
It's like I'm staring at Sigil Games a few years back, but with a game less hyped, and less interesting.
I knew it would delayed, so i dont put much hope on it.
Eats pop corn and having a good ol drink..We interupt this forum for a special announcement.. Round 1 goes to the Vapor trolls..And the Followers of Taos feels shaken from the blow of the white square..I asked one of the follwers how do you feel about the delay?The answer he replied was, Embarassed and lost of faith..Stay tune for the other reports flooding in from around the World..Back to the Forum..Haha..Eats and drink away..
Lol - Pot calling the Kettle Black. Wasnt VG the game that screwed Microsoft out of $40 million with fake demo after fake demo and no real work for years?
Hehe ok first, apologies for butting in here but lets see if i have your defense of Darkfall and Aventuire correct
#1 Tasos is a retard. (No, dispite what we've read here on the forums the fans haven't been praising him as some kinda genius that never lies for years?)
#2 Aventurine is clueless. (No again dispite what we've seen posted here in the DF forums for years by fans the devs at Aventurine are not some kinda geniuses developing the greatest sandbox game ever with highly advanced AI bots, and tons of well paid professional testers. Devs which might i add work day in and day out for the good of the game and its player base with no self interest in money / income etc.. No instead they are a bunch of clueless chumps?)
Just wanted to get that straight. I really don't know your posting history but it seems odd. In my honest experience here with the DF forums anyone that posted anything even close to what you posted above was instantly labled a troll and flamed by the fans. (What you don't believe Darkfall will release on the 22nd? GTFO you hater/troll!)
But you have been wrong before right, you know like about it coming out on the 22nd, and about it having a several week open beta. Sorry but considering your record of correct predictions in defense of DF in the past, if I was a betting man I'd have to bet against you.
Nobody is scared of Tasos, Aventurine, or Darkfall. Come back to reality.
If this was a scam then there wouldn't be so many parties involved in the process: GNi server company, audiovisual publishing company, MMORPG Italia, Athens gaming convention, and the development team itself. If this was vapor ware or a scam then there would be much less people involved in it. Face it, the game exist, but due to the companies size they have had more set backs than most other companies. Doesn't mean everything is fine and dandy, but hey at least things are moving more forward than they have in the past.
GNi server company - they provide servers. They're not responsible for what, if anything, is on them. Apparently right now they have Darkfalls website, forums, and thenoob comic on them.
Audio Visual S.A. - have an agreement to make and distribute disk. Seen any disk made or distributed? Funnily enough, housed in same building as Aventurine.
Athens Gaming Convention - Had nothing to go by but what Tasos told them. Also stood by their guns and stated they reported exactly what he said when tasos claimed they "misquoted" him.
MMORPG.it - Two fanbois who run a site who got to play a version which apparently had noone but themselves on the server, no beta players. Were strictly covered by the NDA and were only allowed to say what Tasos let them. Were also provided incentives by Tasos.
The development team itself - funny, have you ever seen or heard from these 20-30 "developers"? For all you know, they're all Tasos family and friends.
Yes but you also praise DnL as one of the best MMO's ever and think their company was totally justified in riping off many of their customers with double and triple credit card charges for a game they never recieved, or were continually charged for after they had quit.
I would say your opinion and perhaps views on what is acceptable company practice is somewhat in the minority.
Darkfall delayed...Imagine that.
How is this a red flag for sane consumers? All it means is that the people over at Aventurtine are real human beings who cannot do everything perfectly and run into problems. These guys are trying to put out something that all of us have wanted for a long time. Its OBVIOUSLY coming out, that has been proven. So why dont we support them in their efforts? Besdides, its an MMO release. You arent a sane person if you didn't expect a delay.
First given the nature of the entire DF development, red flag everywhere is well justified. A game that does not have any information on pricing, distribution and everything, 1 week before announced live, is really something.
Second, as the OP points out, this last public announcement contradicts a lot of the earlier claims of the developer. All these technical problems they now encountered were long expected by many gamers here, but the developer Tasos or whatever his name is, categorically deny them, saying they can use their own inhouse tester to beta and stress test. Now suddenly they cannot. Tasos sounds like a competent project leader? If some builder reassures you that the new architectural design will work even tho it means no pillars, no .... and when you are moving the furniture in, the builder suddenly said, "hey we need to insert pillars". Will you feel comfortable.
Third, is is OBVIOUSLY coming? How obvious? God and Heroes has a playable beta, played by tens of thousands, and ppl has played to max level. It flops. DF has nothing but a buttload of contradictory words, and missing key elements of distribution (from web site to downloading path, to major reviews to distribution channels to sub policy). DF is obviously coming, and OBVIOUSLY? It must be very obvious to you. Go replace your glasses.
No it not the delay that is funny. Its the way they mess up everything, obviously messy and yet Tasos pretend to be a genious and do things his way till ONE WEEK before the deadline, when he found that everything falls into place ... oops not falls apart.
I see the quality of the team head as an indicator or the product quality. With Tasos, this product err ...
You seems to be able to read a lot I cannot read. I cannot see how their blunders proved they are sincere. I cannot how such a magnitude of mismangement be translated into indicators that they are human. I see mistakes, blunders, bad management, total lacking in professional handling. You like that? good. Not me.
Been away for a few days, just heard the news.
I'm ell o elling
seriously.
Is that what you make of the announcement? That they need to further Beta-test? Because what I see them saying is "The game might be ready, but the set-up of the servers, billing, etc is not".
The rest of your comments are not worthy of responding to. Typical teenage rant.
mmorpg.com is not the only site that let AoC and other games build their "hype". I seem to recall full page ads on Gamespot, mmosite, Warcry and others for AoC and WAR, amongst other games. But I agree that "future" games should be shoved to the back burner until they have something of substance to show and are ready to release.
So you somehow didn't see, didn't understand, or misread...
"We fell behind on a couple of weeks of beta testing progress and we need to make this time up. We need more playtesting data on several features we haven’t had much chance to test externally."
"We want as many players as possible in the game before the launch and we haven’t had the chance to stress test our servers with live players yet."
So exactly what part of we fell behind in beta testing and need more playtesting data (from beta test) did you not understand?
Maybe you don't understand the second part that stress testing the servers is in fact part of beta testing. So in effect they did plainly say they need more time to beta test but you don't believe them? Amazing
GNi server company - they provide servers. They're not responsible for what, if anything, is on them. Apparently right now they have Darkfalls website, forums, and thenoob comic on them.
Audio Visual S.A. - have an agreement to make and distribute disk. Seen any disk made or distributed? Funnily enough, housed in same building as Aventurine.
Athens Gaming Convention - Had nothing to go by but what Tasos told them. Also stood by their guns and stated they reported exactly what he said when tasos claimed they "misquoted" him.
MMORPG.it - Two fanbois who run a site who got to play a version which apparently had noone but themselves on the server, no beta players. Were strictly covered by the NDA and were only allowed to say what Tasos let them. Were also provided incentives by Tasos.
The development team itself - funny, have you ever seen or heard from these 20-30 "developers"? For all you know, they're all Tasos family and friends.
GNi didn't sign onto the project until I believe Sep 08. At least thats when they announced that they would be hosting for DF. The website has been hosted on the same servers way before that.
MMORPG.it isn't ran by 2 people. Its basically the .it verison of this site. They played the game and have a video of it on youtube.
I was refering to the 30min video of the game as evidence that it actually exist.
For the game to be a huge scam, it would have to not exist. Whether or not its a faliure of a game tho is yet to be seen.
GNi didn't sign onto the project until I believe Sep 08. At least thats when they announced that they would be hosting for DF. The website has been hosted on the same servers way before that.
MMORPG.it isn't ran by 2 people. Its basically the .it verison of this site. They played the game and have a video of it on youtube.
I was more refering to the 30min video of the game as evidence that it actually exist.
For the game to be a huge scam, it would have to not exist. Whether or not its a faliure of a game tho is yet to be seen.
Last I checked DnL, and even Mourning, "existed".
I read about mourning. That game was a scam, i don't know much about DnL. Maybe I should say that in order for the game to be a scam it will actually have to scam people out of money first. So
1) The game is a scam if it doesn't exist but charges people money for it
2) Is a shell of a game on the level of Mourning on top of double charging peopel and being unethical.
Let me rephrase that then if it's that hard: falling two weeks behind in the beta schedule does not mean that the game is 'broken' or 'not ready' or even a 'hoax', as most haters rant . It means a delay due to the reasons mentioned .
Their main problem at the moment is hosting the large number of players interested. Not calibrating the game client for better player experience.
You're forgetting one other scenario. Just like Colton Burgess did with the last Mourning incarnation known as Thrones of Chaos, it wasn't the customers who got scammed ( as he folded up shop and ran with the money ), it was the investors.
Put it like this: I wonder whether Tasos could account for every dime of the millions he got in grants, along with all the money from other investors, if audited and demanded to show such?
Thanks for the reply.
Yes. You are actually right. It is legitimate. I do believe the things you've mentioned in the article are relevant. So they deserve to be voiced in an article. And I must say that I have enjoyed reading articles here on MMORPG.COM about Darkfall. It's always nice to hear news about the game.
Perhaps I was slightly wrong and what I really meant was that I hope others will see this news in a brighter light. I am quite active in the community of Darkfall and I don't remember being part of something this expansive. There are really all sorts of people following this game. I'm definitely convinced that the negative comments in this section only represent a smaller part of all those who follow Darkfall. It's just that most are preparing for the game. Chatting with friends and having fun in forumfall, where some troll - but not with a negative attitude.
Anyway. Thanks for the article.
LOL! You can actually say that stuff with a straight face?
Come on... most of us have seen what the vast majority over on the Official Forums think of you.
Oh... and perhaps you forgot your involvement in trying to preach the gospel of DnL?
Oh well... was good for a laugh. Thanks for that.
LOL! You can actually say that stuff with a straight face?
Come on... most of us have seen what the vast majority over on the Official Forums think of you.
Oh... and perhaps you forgot your involvement in trying to preach the gospel of DnL?
Oh well... was good for a laugh. Thanks for that.
This should give people a good idea of Ztyx credibility when it comes to anything game related:
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2575793#2575793
What is with the rampant hatred of Darkfall? It hasn't even come out yet and there are quite a few people who would love to see it fail? You stated that you or WOW players were not afraid of Darkfall. If you are not afraid of it then why do you hate it so much?
I don't think I have ever seen a game trashed so much before it's release. I've seen this kind of hype if not more, but never this much controversy.
Lol this is funny what will be doing on the 22nd jan 2009....
UMMMM STILL WAITING FOR DARKFALL....
You haven't been following these forums for the last several years I would guess, so I can see your confusion.
I believe even most of the so called "trolls" would love to see this game succeed. Most of them believe in the concept. What they don't believe in is Tasos and all the BS he spins.
The problem here is, time and again, Tasos has proven to be one of two things.
1.) A slippery snake oil vendor whose silver tongue has created drooling masses of addle minded followers who can't see past the BS to the truth of the matter. Or...
2.) He is an utterly incompetent PR/manager with no clue how to run things.
It would be one thing if over the years, and years, and years...if he had come out saying things like, "Hey guys, we're really excited about our project, and we're doing the best we can with limited resources, and promise to deliver the best game we can." .......or something along those lines.
What we get instead, are lies, lies, and more lies.
Just several weeks ago, Tasos was spouting how they would never say a release date until they could promise it, and basically smack talked the rest of the game devs of the world, saying how they were sooo much better than them.
Then the promised 2008 release never arrived, the promised "early december" beta never arrived, the promised 22 January release never arrives.
The so called "trolls" called this out based off of the years of Tasos' BS and arrogance towards the community.
When questioned about the status of beta, which many many gamers and forum readers know is needed if for nothing else than stress testing, Tasos touted his "internal professional testers, AI bots, etc.", and even bragged about "hundreds of beta testers" when we all know it takes thousands.
The fans rallied to Tasos, backing him up.
Now he comes out, a week before the drop dead launch, and admits that they need more beta testing, more testers, and that the live testers have brought flaws to their attention that they need to fix.
Shortly before this, Tasos had stated that the game had been release ready for some time and they were fine tuning.
To make a long story only slightly longer...Tasos is pure and utter Bullshit. If he wasn't so conniving, and so arrogant, and so misleading, treating the very fans who support him like crap, this wouldn't be such a big deal.
DF would do well to publicly denounce him and fire his ass.
I hope this enlightens you somewhat.
It's not so much the delays with the game, as the way they've totally mismanaged it. It does not inspire confidence, and brings disasters like mourning and DnL to mind.
This is not a troll rant, this is observation of years spent following the development and release of MMO's.
For the record, I think the game will eventually release, but it won't be the Mecca that most of the hard core fan boi's are clamoring for.
Only have one eye, couldn't miss this coming kinda like Rosie...I mean, who didn't see it?
Darkfall...I
...
Although I am curious to read the follow ups on all those "get lost troll" threads...
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.
Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.
I'm just saying, perspective is key.
So (if you want to maintain credibility?) you will ask those questions.
If Closed Beta is in progress then you should be able to secure a spot for an MMORPG.com Staffer?
Be up front with Aventurine: Something like this
"We want to see that Darkfall is genuine. We owe it to our members / readers.
If we don't see something we will de-list your game until we see something solid."
Seriously Stradden, this site will be left with no credibility if this turns out to be a massive fraud.
CYA. (Cover Your Arse)
And FYI - I hope Darkfall IS genuine and delivers on its promises. But I would hate to see players get scammed (again?). Many MMORPGers are still just kids.
Come on MMORPG.com - for the kids?
Here's an idea. Read the goddamned threads. Every reason has been explained, in detail and triplicate, why the controversy exist.
I have only one short thing to say.
People who are going to pre-order Darkfall right now, deserve to be scammed. And I won't feel a single pitty with them, when they find out end of February.
After all that Tasos has said and promissed the past years up till even a couple days ago (TTH interview anyone?)...
...then a big red flashing alarm should go off by any sane person I would think.
Cheers
"unprepared"
Well, at lease they admit it thats all I can say.
But does back up my philosaphy that one shouldnt be so quick to purchase an MMO at launch.... This Darkfall has a familiar scent of a Vangaurd release.
you guys are all right at this point. i've been a fool believing in darkfall. it gave me false hope, i guess i just needed something to look forward to, but clearly this is not it. I guess i'm just an impatient person that is just looking for the "next big thing".
I agree with the sentiments that those that pay for a pre-order deserve to get scammed.
If you haven't got alarm bells ringing at this stage then I worry about your future in life.
All that is happening now is damage control. Tasos realises that if they let people play a free trial they are going to see the game for the shambles it is, and not purchase the full version. By introducing a pre-order they are at least going to recoup some cash from those who are gullible enough to pay for it. That way, when the true horror of what is behind the curtain is revealed, it will be too late.
I don't think you made alot of sense.
What are you trying to communicate? That their office is fake? Game is fake? Company is fake?
You end with prove me wrong. What are you saying?
Who are you?
Jon Wood,
Mabye I am nitpicking here ;-) but, you state that the Pre-orders will give you presidens in the Trial, this is untrue. The trial starts jan 22nd and no preorders will be taken before mid february.
So in short of letting EVERYONE sample the game for free in the trial, witch was their inital promise, there will be plenty of players that will be able to try the game before they buy. The reason for not letting everyone in, is given and obvious: They never anticipated this much hype, and the high level of interest.
Tasos even gives a rather epic quote on that saying "Hype surrounding Darkfall is huge right now, despite our best efforts"
Thanks
lol
ths is funny... that guy was just a hired game designer.. the mis information on the internets is amazing.
anyway, if you've never seen mourning b4.. you can actually D/L a part of the game world here..
http://abyssalengine.com/download.html
it' was actually quite good looking.. another prime example though.. of a start-up company that bit off way more than they could chew.. ala DF...
This game smells the same as Dark and light. A lot of promises, a lot of strange things happening. Anyone trusting this company deserves to get scammed out of their money. Not saying i don't hope this game will be released (afterall the mmorpg-market can use a good kick in the nuts with all the cookie-cutter games being released) but this whole thing smells like a big scam.
This must be Teedle, the stalker from Mourning.
Either way, it's AVenturine NOT ADventurine, get YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT
"A pre-order will be made available mid-February."
"The pre-orders are necessary so that we can have some measure of the demand."
I swear, this made my skin crawl as i read it... Now they turn around 180 and "pre-order will be made available." Not a big deal... if the soon-to-be customers would have the opportunity to test the game before buying as the devs "were aiming for," now it seems only a few will be let in on the trial.
A piece of advice for everyone whos dying to play this game: wait for the NUMEROUS "trial" leaks to come soon after the 22nd, as they let in a whole bunch of testers whos not "professionals." And if theres no additional leaks (or only a few, that are all praising the game) by the time they want your credit card number..? RUN fOR THE HILLS!
Oh and this turn of events doesnt surprise me a bit...
There are several reasons why this MMO is in a particular situation, I believe, that is special. More so over that this company is a small, independent company. Other larger MMO companies have yet to face this special circumstance. Darkfall is being released after huge and numerous upsets to the community through some especially unique MMOs. I am not going to name any names but the community believed in these games and have had "egg", so to speak, thrown in their faces, not once, but several times over the past 2 years. Now another promise has risen with all the tall tale signs of before. But can we blame a company for what they are doing? Do we press forward in optimism in a hope that one day an MMO company does speak the truth or do we fall back to our past experiences and flag this as suspicious and reserve ourselves?
Normally I do not like to ask these types questions but I think we are in exceptional times. We need to ask ourselves if we should continue to give faith to companies, no matter how small or large, or do we need to pull back our expectations for future generations. I, myself, am going to sit back on this one and not lure myself into something once again like in the past. But I am still optimistic about the future, just more cautious in my approach.
Hopefully this year will be a turning point in our quest for entertainment in a relatively new but established frontier in gaming. I ask each and everyone of you to ask yourself the same question before making your move.
It doesn't matter what the reason.... This announcement is like Christmas in January for all of the Darkfall trolls.
I don't particularly care; let it come out when it is ready. Too much gets rushed out the door for the wrong reasons. Then again, it is quite interesting to see some of the lack of testing/development complete comments regarding the delay, which of course is a direct contradiction to what the development team has been feeding us for some time now.
My eyes are free from the wool, thank you very much.
OMG this is collector: Paste copy
**************************************
"Sorry. But, you can't have that map. The information of who is entitled to one must be lost by now. Stop making bad public relations for Dark and Light. It is a nice and visionary title. It deserves to be supported a little bit instead for all the things it did so well. A map is insignificant. The best gift would be a re-launch with Mafate 2.0. :)"
****************************************
Darkfall ?
NOOOOO
Dark and Light forums (HERE)
SAME FANBOYS . SAME PEOPLE.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2575793#2575793
Yeah, DFO forums = DnL forums now.
TAKE CARE.TAKE CARE.
Cautious optimism is probably the best path to take on this game.
I wouldn't be pre-ordering anything, or handing my money over, though, before I've played the game.
It sounds like a good game, in theory.
In theory communism works.
In theory...
This game simply has far too little actual gameplay shown, and far too little specific, official, and already made details released to the public.
Hell, in the gameplay videos, I still have yet to see a UI. Where the hell is my UI? Are those characters bots? Players? I only see like a maximum of about 6 characters on one screen.
God damn it, get some freaking beta testers in, let them PLAY your damn game and tell the world how good or bad it is. If nothing else, it would get them some credibility.
But meh, they're not gonna listen to me... and I can't possibly flame enough to kill the trolls.
You know... 'cause you can't kill them without fire.
And YA DFO is ready for launch no doubt
http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html (always on the Aventurine website: they always need help)
paste copy from Aventurine SA website
"Lead Quality Assurance Manager:
Computer Games Industry
Overview:
Aventurine S.A. is looking for a Lead Quality Assurance Manager for our highly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall Online. (www.darkfallonline.com)
Responsibilities:
Head the QA department.
Responsible for testing of the game:
• Prepare the Game Test Plan.
• Check / Review / Manage the Test Cases document.
• Develop, implement and refine test plans.
• Act as the single point of contact between Development and Testers for iterations, testing and deployment activities.
• Track and report upon testing activities, including testing results, test case coverage, required resources, defects discovered and their status, performance baselines, etc..
• Keep track of the new requirements from the Developers.
• Ensure content and structure of all Testing documents / artifacts is documented and maintained.
Responsible for managing bug reports for the game:
• Assign bug reports to correct developer
• Sort/Remove bug reports
• Refine bug reports/Create exact reproducible scenarios for bugs
• Manage temporary workaround methods
Responsible for co-managing the beta process of the game:
• Co-Schedule beta process and milestones for testing
• Create daily/weekly reports on testing
Responsible for managing the public web page of known bugs/workarounds and the (external) testers.
Responsible for co-managing the post-release testing cycles of the game.
Requirements:
• Extreme work ethic.
• Self motivated.
• Passionate about testing Darkfall.
• The ability to go above and beyond responsibility.
• Good Technical Computer Knowledge.
• Fluent in English, both written and oral.
We Offer:
• Competitive salary and bonus.
• A good working environment in Halandri Attikis.
Send your CV (in English) and relevant info at: jobs@aventurine.gr
----------------------------------------------------
Game Programmer:
Computer Games Industry
Overview:
Aventurine S.A. is looking for a senior game logic programmer for our highly anticipated MMORPG Darkfall Online.(www.darkfallonline.com)
The position requires you to implement gameplay features and system features in Java.
Responsibilities:
• Implement new gamelogic features both on Server and Client in our custom gamelogic framework.
• Test, debug and optimize new and existing features.
• Work closely with other Gamelogic programmers.
Requirements:
• Computer Science, or related degree.
• Excellent Java skills.
• Excellent Problem solving and debugging skills.
• Good knowledge of O.O. design.
• Understanding of server/client architectures.
• Excellent Team Working skills.
• Ability to work under pressure within a multidisciplinary team.
• Fluent in English, both written and oral.
We Offer
• Competitive salary and bonus.
• A good working environment in Halandri Attikis.
Send your CV (in English) and relevant info at: jobs@aventurine.gr
bottom"
Send your CV they need help since.. Howw.. a long long time...
I getting flash backs of my SoG pre order.. Settlers of Darkfall? hehehehe
I did not say it did not exist, or that it sucked. I simply stated that a KNOWN THIEF AND CON ARTIST who has tried his hand in the industry before, and ran off with alot of investors/fans cash now works with dipshit and dipshit#2.
If I made either of those statements, how are you going to reassure me of anything? Twit...
DiKU, Angband, M59, EQ, EQ2, brief stint with SWG, VG. Currently not doing shit, because there is not shit to do in this industry.
Now if Epic made GoW:Online, I'd be there in a second... Only because it would be different, and they would self publish with a few strategic partners.
you should be reported and legally prosecuted for spreading false rumors.
The publisher for Darkfall is Audio Visual Enterprises. Its CEO is Ioannis Kourtesis. You can see him sign in all Fiscal Reports.
AVE is also traded in the stock exchange. Spreading rumors about a public company with the potential to damage its market status is a CRIME in all western legal systems.
Although this looks like a spam mail coming from Nigeria or dunno where...
The advertised job positions have been on the website for yonks!
You haven't been following these forums for the last several years I would guess, so I can see your confusion.
I believe even most of the so called "trolls" would love to see this game succeed. Most of them believe in the concept. What they don't believe in is Tasos and all the BS he spins. LOL
The problem here is, time and again, Tasos has proven to be one of two things.
1.) A slippery snake oil vendor whose silver tongue has created drooling masses of addle minded followers who can't see past the BS to the truth of the matter. Or...
2.) He is an utterly incompetent PR/manager with no clue how to run things.
It would be one thing if over the years, and years, and years...if he had come out saying things like, "Hey guys, we're really excited about our project, and we're doing the best we can with limited resources, and promise to deliver the best game we can." .......or something along those lines.
What we get instead, are lies, lies, and more lies.
Just several weeks ago, Tasos was spouting how they would never say a release date until they could promise it, and basically smack talked the rest of the game devs of the world, saying how they were sooo much better than them.
Then the promised 2008 release never arrived, the promised "early december" beta never arrived, the promised 22 January release never arrives. This one i agree on, he really inserted his foot in his mouth on that one
The so called "trolls" called this out based off of the years of Tasos' BS and arrogance towards the community.
When questioned about the status of beta, which many many gamers and forum readers know is needed if for nothing else than stress testing, Tasos touted his "internal professional testers, AI bots, etc.", and even bragged about "hundreds of beta testers" when we all know it takes thousands.
The fans rallied to Tasos, backing him up.
Now he comes out, a week before the drop dead launch, and admits that they need more beta testing, more testers, and that the live testers have brought flaws to their attention that they need to fix.
Shortly before this, Tasos had stated that the game had been release ready for some time and they were fine tuning. He didnt admit they needed more beta testing, he basically said the turnout was huge and they needed to figure out the logistics of a bigger launch than expected. He said they would use this time window to polish the game and add things that were supposed to be for after release.
To make a long story only slightly longer...Tasos is pure and utter Bullshit. If he wasn't so conniving, and so arrogant, and so misleading, treating the very fans who support him like crap, this wouldn't be such a big deal.
DF would do well to publicly denounce him and fire his ass.
I hope this enlightens you somewhat.
It's not so much the delays with the game, as the way they've totally mismanaged it. It does not inspire confidence, and brings disasters like mourning and DnL to mind.
This is not a troll rant, this is observation of years spent following the development and release of MMO's.
For the record, I think the game will eventually release, but it won't be the Mecca that most of the hard core fan boi's are clamoring for.
It is a troll rant, the only thing i agree is that they could treat the community better and give them something more than old screenshots to thank them for being so patient, because they did miss 2 launch dates
surprise surprise....anyway more delay = better game a the launch...and I have no problem with that
I was not waiting for DFO...but with all the controversy it has...I might give the game a try
Go back to law school. You apparently slept through legal definition of the word CRIME. Also torts, intent and ibel.
Errr... I have jusr under an hour's worth of DF gameplay videos covering virtually all major aspects of the game, as well as a 280 page document of all the developer journals that have been release describing the game.
How much more info do you want, seriously? I agree that the channels of communication are unconventional, but the facts are there is plenty of game info/media, more than enough to work out whether the game is for you or not.
Plus, there is the free trial on the 22nd to come...
I agree there is enough information about darkfall, although a few new screenshots and info while we wait wouldnt hurt, but you should wait for the 22 to call it a "free trial" and see how many people are getting in.
Errr... I have jusr under an hour's worth of DF gameplay videos covering virtually all major aspects of the game, as well as a 280 page document of all the developer journals that have been release describing the game.
How much more info do you want, seriously? I agree that the channels of communication are unconventional, but the facts are there is plenty of game info/media, more than enough to work out whether the game is for you or not.
Plus, there is the free trial on the 22nd to come...
I suggest you Google "Perpetual Motion Machine"
There is more information, design drawings, videos and documentation on the internet PROVING they exist than there is PROVING Darkfall exists.
Hmmmm.
The game was never gonna be ready next week. It is never gonna be ready on the 25th.
Everything is telling players to stay miles away from the game but still some nubs are gonna preorder.
Jesus H Crist.... Don't blame the dev company when you have all the possible warnings that EVERYTHING is seriously going wrong...
Stay away - stay MILES away ....
you should be reported and legally prosecuted for spreading false rumors.
The publisher for Darkfall is Audio Visual Enterprises. Its CEO is Ioannis Kourtesis. You can see him sign in all Fiscal Reports.
AVE is also traded in the stock exchange. Spreading rumors about a public company with the potential to damage its market status is a CRIME in all western legal systems.
Although this looks like a spam mail coming from Nigeria or dunno where...
I love the legal experts that run amok on these boards. Always flinging their legal liability remarks. Your argument and accusations are paper-thin, do yourself a favor and just use personal attacks instead of legal remarks. You'd likely end up looking a bit smarter.
you should be reported and legally prosecuted for spreading false rumors.
The publisher for Darkfall is Audio Visual Enterprises. Its CEO is Ioannis Kourtesis. You can see him sign in all Fiscal Reports.
AVE is also traded in the stock exchange. Spreading rumors about a public company with the potential to damage its market status is a CRIME in all western legal systems.
Although this looks like a spam mail coming from Nigeria or dunno where...
LOL! You have no clue do you!
As long as they selll you a box or a digital download and have a game server running where you can log into, they stay clear and get away with it. Aka Dark and Light.
That the gameworld is largely empty and 95% of the features listed on a 5 year old website aren't in the game or severely bugged... that doesn't matter. As you forgot to read the tiny letters on the bottom when you paid for the game.
So there is no crime. It's called a scam! And you know what a good scam is? The perfect crime they can get away with unpunished!
Vanguard was the biggest scam of 2007 and Sigil even being situated in the US!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against them or SOE?
Age of Conan was the biggest scam of 2008!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against Funcom?
I rest my case.
Cheers
LOL! You have no clue do you!
As long as they selll you a box or a digital download and have a game server running where you can log into, they stay clear and get away with it. Aka Dark and Light.
That the gameworld is largely empty and 95% of the features listed on a 5 year old website aren't in the game or severely bugged... that doesn't matter. As you forgot to read the tiny letters on the bottom when you paid for the game.
So there is no crime. It's called a scam! And you know what a good scam is? The perfect crime they can get away with unpunished!
Vanguard was the biggest scam of 2007 and Sigil even being situated in the US!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against them or SOE?
Age of Conan was the biggest scam of 2008!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against Funcom?
Because everyone just got their money back through charge back? or refund at store? No one is going to try and sue anyone over 30 bucks
I rest my case.
Cheers
I'm surprised that you forgot to quote mmorpg.com's interview with Tasos mr Wood.
MMORPG.com:
Can you tell us, as of the answering of this Q&A exactly where Darkfall stands in terms of nearness to being a launch-ready title?
Tasos Flambouras:
Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time. Everything has been tested internally and since November 10th we've been using an ever-growing number of external testers.
Doesn't that totally invalidate most of their excuses?
I have a different idea about why they made this announcement, when considering the leaks and rumors I have heard. I think they have run into some major problems in beta, and have run out of money. Hoping to cash in on their broken game, they have decided to do this pay in advance for a preview thing.
Next week they might come out and say something like "Due to demand we are letting players into the trial in waves based on the beta applications." or they might not say anything at all which is their usual course of action. Then mid feb comes around, and a preorder link shows up with the promise of getting into the trial a bit sooner, but there is no guarantee that you will get in at all. If even half of their rabid fanboys picks up this trial they will make around 5million USD. Thats a lot of money.
Really? Is that what I should do? Golly gee whiz mister, thanks. I certainly wouldn't have thought of that on my own for I just fell off of the turnoip truck and inot a job running this website.
Seriously, I've asked. I was told that we would be invited when the time comes.
Also: Why would this site lose any credibility at all in either case on this one? We're covering the news, to the best of our knowledge, as it develops. In the scenario you named, would I be pissed off? of course. Would I feel like I was somehow responsible? No. Of course not.
Unless of course I missed soemthing where I said "I guarantee that this will be the outcome on the Darkfall issue", because I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.
Thanks though for that refresher on the basics of my job.
LOL! You have no clue do you!
As long as they selll you a box or a digital download and have a game server running where you can log into, they stay clear and get away with it. Aka Dark and Light.
That the gameworld is largely empty and 95% of the features listed on a 5 year old website aren't in the game or severely bugged... that doesn't matter. As you forgot to read the tiny letters on the bottom when you paid for the game.
So there is no crime. It's called a scam! And you know what a good scam is? The perfect crime they can get away with unpunished!
Vanguard was the biggest scam of 2007 and Sigil even being situated in the US!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against them or SOE?
Age of Conan was the biggest scam of 2008!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against Funcom?
I rest my case.
Cheers
In your haste to bash someone else, you didnt take the time to understand what he was talking about. Therefore, you look like an idiot.
He isnt talking about the state of the game, but wether or not that Dan antonescu guy is related to audio visual or not.
LOL! You have no clue do you!
As long as they selll you a box or a digital download and have a game server running where you can log into, they stay clear and get away with it. Aka Dark and Light.
That the gameworld is largely empty and 95% of the features listed on a 5 year old website aren't in the game or severely bugged... that doesn't matter. As you forgot to read the tiny letters on the bottom when you paid for the game.
So there is no crime. It's called a scam! And you know what a good scam is? The perfect crime they can get away with unpunished!
Vanguard was the biggest scam of 2007 and Sigil even being situated in the US!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against them or SOE?
Age of Conan was the biggest scam of 2008!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against Funcom?
I rest my case.
Cheers
I wouldn't call Vanguard or Age of Conan Scams! just poorly developed games, nothing sinister.
However I certainly will not be buying this MMO, I've learnt my lesson from the above mentioned games and the countless others that have failed to live up to their hype or Developers promises, although I'm positive the dedicated fans of the game will stick by the game, you only have to see the amount of comments on this thread to realise that the game has invoked some strong emotions.
That's my favourite statement ever. Hence why I've quoted it in my sig. The phrase 'Shooting yourself in the foot' springs to mind.
If you can't grasp the fact that this is the exact same company that already announced and canceled beta twice. We still have NO proof that anyone is actually in the beta. They have not even let any known publisher even look at the game. The only thing we have is carefully controlled release of game information by the developers where they can put any spin on it they want.
Anyone that allows this company access to their credit cards deserves all that bad things that will happen to them.
What is even more astounding to me, is there are people actually defending Aventurine. How can anyone not look at the inept bumbling fools at Aventurine and not laugh. Whoever thought up the FUBAR acronym had those clowns at Aventurine in mind.
I say good on Adventurine for doing this.
Vanguard
AoC
WAR
list goes on.
All games that could have done with 1-3 additional months which would have saved them a lot of grief at the start. Adventurine were probably expecting the game to be niche and it has generated a lot more interest than expected. A good thing but I can't blame them for freaking a little and taking additional time to polish and fix. Even if they delayed 6 months I wouldn't care. As long as its a good game.
you can contact the company he probably still works for and ask
http://www.newrosoft.com/index.php?pg=contact
Hi,
You know, reading it again, I think your interpretation may be more valid. It is entirely possible that I misinterpreted what was said. I will take some time today to ammend that section of the article.
LOL! You have no clue do you!
As long as they selll you a box or a digital download and have a game server running where you can log into, they stay clear and get away with it. Aka Dark and Light.
That the gameworld is largely empty and 95% of the features listed on a 5 year old website aren't in the game or severely bugged... that doesn't matter. As you forgot to read the tiny letters on the bottom when you paid for the game.
So there is no crime. It's called a scam! And you know what a good scam is? The perfect crime they can get away with unpunished!
Vanguard was the biggest scam of 2007 and Sigil even being situated in the US!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against them or SOE?
Age of Conan was the biggest scam of 2008!
Why wasn't there any lawsuit against Funcom?
I rest my case.
Cheers
In your haste to bash someone else, you didnt take the time to understand what he was talking about. Therefore, you look like an idiot.
He isnt talking about the state of the game, but wether or not that Dan antonescu guy is related to audio visual or not.
I reacted on the overal discussion and about what is a crime and what is a scam.
I removed a lot of quotes, otherwise it would have become unreadable.
Cheers
I would disagree with you on mentioning WAR needing more time, I found more bugs in WoW when it was released than I have done in the first few months of playing WAR, infact you will still see old bugs like displaced NPC's in WoW that have not been fixed for years, however spot on with Vandoomed and AoCock-up, I use the discs to those 2 games as coasters now.
I would disagree with you on mentioning WAR needing more time, I found more bugs in WoW when it was released than I have done in the first few months of playing WAR, infact you will still see old bugs like displaced NPC's in WoW that have not been fixed for years, however spot on with Vandoomed and AoCock-up, I use the discs to those 2 games as coasters now.
Warhammer Online deserves to be on that list.
I won't go into it anymore as of why. As I have spend countless post on what is severely wrong with that game.
Hence why more and more people quit each day.
Cheers
Let's not forget the "We'll never do a preorder" by Tasos
While I had only recently found out about DF within the last six months or so, I was very excited about it....at first. I have been turning down that excitement based upon what I would have to say are "questionable" practices by those putting DF out. The fact that they have made statements which then turn out to be changed without explanation is one of my biggest concerns. This recent change from "allowing everyone to try the game free before they buy" to "limited to a thousand" is just one example. I have already stated that I WILL NOT purchase this game unless I can try it first for free. I will not be burned by yet another MMO that makes promises and then fails to deliver.
Let's not forget the "We'll never do a preorder" by Tasos
People/companies change their mind all the time, this is no different.
"Now we gotta make the best of it, improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, shit happens, I Ching, whatever man, we gotta roll with it."
I would disagree with you on mentioning WAR needing more time, I found more bugs in WoW when it was released than I have done in the first few months of playing WAR, infact you will still see old bugs like displaced NPC's in WoW that have not been fixed for years, however spot on with Vandoomed and AoCock-up, I use the discs to those 2 games as coasters now.
Its not about bugs, its about Open RvR bringing servers to their knees and them putting all the xp into scenarios basically turning the game into WOWhammer, but the BG grind starts at lvl1.
Now i could understand Aventurine going safe on this to prevent this sort of debacle because of the unexpected big turnout the buzz has generated.
The Saga of Darkfall and Light continues
first thing i have to say is, wow that's alot of comments so quickly
second is that a months delay isn't much of a surprise in order to get a smother launch
Really? Is that what I should do? Golly gee whiz mister, thanks. I certainly wouldn't have thought of that on my own for I just fell off of the turnoip truck and inot a job running this website.
Seriously, I've asked. I was told that we would be invited when the time comes.
Also: Why would this site lose any credibility at all in either case on this one? We're covering the news, to the best of our knowledge, as it develops. In the scenario you named, would I be pissed off? of course. Would I feel like I was somehow responsible? No. Of course not.
Unless of course I missed soemthing where I said "I guarantee that this will be the outcome on the Darkfall issue", because I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened.
Thanks though for that refresher on the basics of my job.
Well then - Golly Gee Whiz. Since you choose to be so flippant then right back at ya.
What is this site for?
MMORPG games. Do you have any actual proof this is a working game?
You seriously don't see that this site might lose some credibility if it turns out after all this time that Darkfall is a fraud?
After your members have specifically asked you to check?
Really?
Since you liked my refresher on the basics of your job how about some more?
Yeah, you are reporting the news. But what sort of news reporter are you?
A Walter Cronkite type - who checks his facts and is trusted by his audience?
One who actually gives a shit?
Or are you the type who produces papers like "The Sun". Happy to print any garbage? "Alien stole my MMORPG!"?
If so, can we have "page 3 girls"?
Can you provide any proof what-so-ever that this game exists? That it is even close to being ready?
Does it even comply with the MMORPG.com rules listed here.
Can you confirm even this: "3. The game should have the capability to support at least 500 congruent users on a single server. This is not a reflection of the game's current subscriber count, but rather reflects the capabilities of a game's technology."?
Doesn't it worry you that a week away from the 22nd release (originally proposed) date no-one can prove this game exists in a playable state?
Everything we know about this game comes from the Developer and a few people known to the developer and vetted by the developer like this
"- I've been a good friend of Claus and Tasos for many years and we've often played MMOs together in the past.
- They've hosted The Noob since 2005, which is great or I'd have to sell my furniture to pay for bandwidth. I've reciprocated the favour by asking them "wtf, when's beta starting?" no more than twice a week for the last nine years. "
And throughout those reviews we get little gems about wipes happening often and "How ready is it? I don't know!"
Now normally I would give the Developer and the Author of those articles credit but as you say:
"I think that it is important at this stage to point out that a delayed launch, even after a specific date was set, is not an unusual process for an MMORPG. We’ve seen it many times before with a wide variety of games. The announcement alone does not signify any wrongdoing on Aventurine’s part and should be treated in the same way as other MMO delays."
Yes... but A WEEK before the announced release date?
When there is still no proof this game is even real?
You go on to say:
"While disappointment levels might be running a little bit high for players who were looking forward to Darkfall’s launch, and some who might like to see the game fizzle in flames may point to the delay as “proof” that the game is some kind of “scam”, I think that cooler heads should prevail on the subject. Is the delay a perfect scenario? No. Should we see this and assume that there’s something fishy in the works? Probably not. Should we look at the information presented and perhaps be a little more wary? Maybe. Should it make us ask more questions? Definitely, but that’s almost always a good idea anyway."
I think...
Probably...
Maybe...
Should it make us ask more questions?...
This is NOT the language of Investigative journalism.
It's the sort of thing I would accept on a blog or as Parachute Journalism but not from an Editor on MMORPG.com
If the question going through your mind was "Should it make us ask more questions?" then the answer is YES
And you should have got those answers or stated why you couldn't.
We are looking to YOU at MMORPG.com to bring us the news here. News we can trust.
YOU have the power to make that happen.
YOU have the contacts. (Can you produce ANYONE outside Tasos' friends who can verify this game is real?)
If I want conjecture I can read the forums.
Did you consider that while you were falling off the turnip truck?
This site still has Dark and Light listed here with boards and the game is totally dead... you can't play it.. it's totally offline and has been for MONTHS and will stay that way forever.
But just because it has a website and some screens it gets listed? LoL
DnL basically stole thousands of peoples money and this site STILL lists it and would even be sending it MORE orders if it was still taking orders..
Well, as I said in the other thread <linky>
Based on this, and a few other recent "MMORPG" games it might be time to review these rules.
Games are slipping through that perhaps shouldn't?
MMORPGs are 'evolving' and perhaps the rules should too.
As I said in The Agency forum, does a game with a "graphical lobby" count as a MMORPG?
That's just one problem with these rules.
There are browser based MMORPGs which deserve to be here more than some recent titles. :-(
Maybe he spoke too soon about 'no pre-order' and 'release date will be final'. Maybe he turned an ear to marketing people( they are mahirim i believe) at the last minute. Maybe the publisher slammed its big corporate fist on the table and made shit hard for Tasos.
Lies do in fact suck though.
They didn't advertise their game much, and this company formed to create solely Darkfall(so far anyways) out of a country that has never produced an MMO. It's pretty easy to forgive them already, to be honest.
Lol...
Stradden trying to talk sense to an angry, bloodthristy lynchmob.
Just throw them red meat, and get the hell out of the cage.
Actually, ask yourself what our goal is here?
People just want to see proof that this IS NOT a fraud.
That should be easy - right?
lol #265 on the comment lsit,that's a lot :D
There is ONLY one thing i could gather from all of this that makes any sense to me.The one thing is that i truly believe the PRE ORDERS are more of a case to pay for the so called FREE testing.I believe these guys are so tight for money they are having to scramble bigtime to make this work.
Somehow i get the feeling of a Vanguard all over again.A product that will probably turn out to be quite decent but,there lack of funds will fail the game somewhere for sure.I do not know where it will fail,perhaps something as simple as low bandwidth therefore players cannot login or are booted out of the server steadily,i can see that sort of problem causing an uproar.
This is why when i read between the lines ,they keep eluding to how they NEED to know how many players will be in the game come launch.By taking pre orders they can perhaps go OVER budget a tad and provide a little more space for players to login.Aventurine sounds like they cannot afford to put out more servers or bandwidth than they need,it would crush their profit margin.
This just shows why you need the BIG guy running these games,no matter how good or how smart the little guy is,he just doesn't have the funds to produce a first class act.Just like Vanguard,these guys are so tight in funds,they cannot take on any other partners,they are trying to do as much themselves as possible,IMO they can't handle it.If anyone remembers Final Fantasy almost went bankrupt,they decided to take SOE on as a partner and develop their game exclusively for the PS,it paid off for them in the end,it saved the franchise.
Vanguard was a TREMENDOUS effort,the effort put into the game blows the doors off even the largest subbed game WOW,i mean it is not even close,but their lack of funds put them where?I feel we are going to see a repeat here with DF..too bad really,the little guys can not compete with the big guys.I wish the best for DF and Aventurine,we need the little guys :D
After 8 years of waiting for nothing, I'd like to simply re-iterate the fact that this entire project is VAPORWARE.
From the majority of the threads, it appears the goal is pretty much "I told you so, ha ha ha." No?
Oh, another MMO launch delay.
Interesting all those 'I told you so' responses and others trying to defend this company. Who cares, just check the game if it gets launched. Untill then all is just speculation.
And dont preorder if you havent participated in any beta program for a MMO. Unless you like to gamble of course
One thing that struck me in their responses is that they didnt want to build a hype. Nothing seems to work anymore with MMO marketing strategies lol. Every approach seems to backfire somehow. Very entertaining though
Warhammer Online deserves to be on that list.
I won't go into it anymore as of why. As I have spend countless post on what is severely wrong with that game.
Hence why more and more people quit each day.
Cheers
That would be a good point if only their subscriptions were somehow low. Perhaps my data is wrong, but at around 3 million subscriptions and holding, that is equal to a wow launch. I believe you get the same information where people are saying that everyone is leaving wow, yet their subscriptions are going up, even in areas were everyone claims they are leaving. Like the US, they recently peeked with wotlk but even after "everyone left" there are still more subscribers than there was 1 year ago in the US.
Also, like the person you quoted, i do tend to hear more and more about war. Even some of my wow players play both games because they like war better but all the friends are still not wanting to change yet.
IN OTHER NEWS:
Maybe people should check out a game that has come out for the EU and will be out for the US soon. spellborn, it is also on the hot list. The difference is that game looks good, and plays amazing. I'll give darkfall a chance as it takes care of my hardcore pvp side (that is if it comes out), but until then spellborn will hold me over, and it will hold me over very well. Free trail if you are in the EU for the first 7 levels.
Warhammer Online deserves to be on that list.
I won't go into it anymore as of why. As I have spend countless post on what is severely wrong with that game.
Hence why more and more people quit each day.
Cheers
That would be a good point if only their subscriptions were somehow low. Perhaps my data is wrong, but at around 3 million subscriptions and holding, that is equal to a wow launch. I believe you get the same information where people are saying that everyone is leaving wow, yet their subscriptions are going up, even in areas were everyone claims they are leaving. Like the US, they recently peeked with wotlk but even after "everyone left" there are still more subscribers than there was 1 year ago in the US.
Also, like the person you quoted, i do tend to hear more and more about war. Even some of my wow players play both games because they like war better but all the friends are still not wanting to change yet.
IN OTHER NEWS:
Maybe people should check out a game that has come out for the EU and will be out for the US soon. spellborn, it is also on the hot list. The difference is that game looks good, and plays amazing. I'll give darkfall a chance as it takes care of my hardcore pvp side (that is if it comes out), but until then spellborn will hold me over, and it will hold me over very well. Free trail if you are in the EU for the first 7 levels.
WAR seems to be going well in US, but not so good in the EU. GOA was very good to get a bad reputation since launch.
And TCoS might follow a similar route in the EU, with their incredibly retarded release (lets put up some modern version of the Iron curtain,yay! ). It seems that at Acclaim there are some people who watched the Sopranos series for inspiration for the negotiations with the Spellborn devs.
But TCoS might still do well in the US if the reactions are any indication. Their concern is mainly about the delay (oh a MMO launch delay? Oo lol) from Acclaims part. Ive only seen a few supporting reactions from US players about that crap EU launch, the rest were basically 'get over it' / 'not our problem' kind of reactions.
Yes friend, if you are somehow suggesting Warhammer had 3 million subscriptions at launch, or NOW have 3 million subscriptions at present.... you are not just reading wrong data. Those data sources? Put those down. They are really called "comic books." And the little numbers in them are called "pages."
They probably have anywhere from 250k-300k current subscribers. There was no massive push in box sales to indicate any higher since Mythic's huge player base merges. Eve Online probably has more subs than Warhammer does at the moment, and they could be around 300kish by now. (they were about 220k in May 2008)
I'm guessing you were making a /sarcastic post?
To keep it breif, I don't mind a delayed launch. As long as the game (and everything around it) works somewhat properly another month ain't much of a wait.
Let them delay it as long as necessary, that's fine: The last thing they need is a Hellgate: London style launch.
You can sit with a straight face and type that's the only thing that was wrong with Mourningand the assholes behind it? Whatever, dude.
And we all know that time fixes all things.
"after much delay DF launches and it reminds people of the Hellgate launch"
And we all know that time fixes all things.
"after much delay DF launches and it reminds people of the Hellgate launch"
Tasos makes that bungler Bill Roper look like a Grade AAA professional.
Let's not forget the "We'll never do a preorder" by Tasos
People/companies change their mind all the time, this is no different.
"Now we gotta make the best of it, improvise, adapt to the environment, Darwin, shit happens, I Ching, whatever man, we gotta roll with it."
1 week before Release...
They do a complete 180 on things they have said before?
They miss their second Release date in less than a month?
They "suddenly" realize they have too many customers?
Show me another MMO that has ever done that. Since it's done all the time and this is no different it should be pretty easy to find an example of another MMO that did that with 1 week to go before launch. I'll check back to read the long list.
I have just returned home from hospital and have been told no PC for a month or so as I can hardly sit at my pc, so I am happy as larry and as I predicted this would happan and I am very glad. At least I will be fit to play if it makes it in Feb/March so this is a good result for me for sure. This will also make the na sayers not want to bother and will make it more fun for the people who do just want to try it with no strings attached for sure.
But mark my words all these people shout and stamping and moaning will still be there when it finally does go live, they just denying and being dishonest as they dont want to look stupid.
Later all off to recover see you in Feb...
It is true that release-date delays are common in the MMO world and even in all games. It's just that never before have we seen push backs and delays this much in one game.
I have a morbid fear of flying which I have had for 30 years now ..... whats this got to do with Darkfall you ask ? ......
BECAUSE IF THIS GAME IS EVER RELEASED I'LL GET ON A PLANE TO THE USA AND SHOW MY ARSE (or should I say Ass for our American cousins )
IN GAMESTOP'S WINDOW !!
Who wants to bet the greatest amount of entertainment this game will ever provide will be from threads like this one?
Today’s announcement provides exactly the kind of amusement that we’ve come to expect from Aventurine.
Since you clearly haven’t been following the development of this game over the years, here’s why there's so much controversy:
How about an arrogant Lead Developer who treats the MMORPG community like garbage combined with a community of fan-followers who defend the developer and even praise him for treating them like garbage. All while blindly swallowing his hype without question and insisting to everyone that this game is going to be the most incredible thing ever even though there was nothing to back them up for years.
How about company making grandiose claims about their game without providing any real proof at all during a long and very rocky development. No reviews by game critics or no public demos, nothing. Only in the last few months have there a few interviews and some videos and blogs released by hand-picked cronies.
Now Aventurine is FINALLY suggesting that they may provide some real proof in the form of a client to the public. But you may just have to pre-order the game first
And yet there are still those defending Aventurine. For years there was no proof at all and the followers of this game just accepted everything spewing out of Tasos like it was gospel. The MMORPG community deserves better. We have seen developers that treat their community better like Turbine, Mythic and Blizzard (yes, Blizzard’s community treatment has been far superior to Aventurine)
And yet people still praise Tasos for his arrogance even after making statements like:
Tasos Flambouras: Darkfall could launch today. It's more ready for launch than most, if not all of the MMORPG titles at the same stage that I've personally sampled and it has been for quite some time. Everything has been tested internally and since November 10th we've been using an ever-growing number of external testers.
Arrogance is only justified when you back it up with competence. We’ve had little save talk from Aventurine for years and now it’s coming down to the wire. One week before their release, they make all of these changes that they once proudly held up to show their superiority like no Pre-Orders.
Waiting one week before the release date is classic Aventurine. Either they knew there would be a delay months ago and they decided to conceal it from the community. Or they’re totally clueless and only just now realized they needed more time.
As long as there are those willing to let company’s like Aventurine get away with this kind of garbage and blindly believe their hype, developers will keep trying to get away with it. We saw it with McQuaid and Vangaurd, we saw it with Garriott and Tabula Rasa. It’s time to learn the lesson. Most everyone posting in this thread has figured it out. Everyone who really believes Darkfall is Most Anticipated Game of the Year still needs to learn it.
no harm done, all the people that refuse to buy the game now and whine immensely were simply the WoW/WAR noobs that were going to quit after a month anyways.
At least they will not be QQ'ing on the 26th of February crying here on the forums about how they have been scammed.
Cheers
hahahha
SHOCKING!!
absolutely shocking!!
no really...
no seriously, it's shocking that it was delayed...seriously shocking
seriously.
haha
at least those two games came out. No one here can say with any degree of certainty that this game will EVER come out. There are so many red flags surrounding this fiasco of a game it is almost scary. It is vaporware until I see a box on a store shelf as far as I am concerned.
i agree
I have said it before and I will say it again. Darkfall reminds me so much of Mourning Online. Tons of promises, yet showing nothing.
I have played and watched closely various mmorpgs since Ultima Online came out. Darkfall is following the same pattern as Mourning Online. I predict that if it is released, it will be an empty shell of a game just like Mourning Online and Dark and Light.
lol delayed again
maybe after this one they will delay it for another 10 years
In your haste to bash someone else, you didnt take the time to understand what he was talking about. Therefore, you look like an idiot.
He isnt talking about the state of the game, but wether or not that Dan antonescu guy is related to audio visual or not.
I reacted on the overal discussion and about what is a crime and what is a scam.
I removed a lot of quotes, otherwise it would have become unreadable.
Cheers
Congratulations, you still fail. Dan A. is not affiliated with the company, period. So what Galadourn originally stated was true, and still remains very... very true.
Hahaha
Im honestly feeling sorry for all you Pvpers Lol
no surprise here.
I've read a lot and heard a lot about this game, but not from someone who actually claims to be a beta tester. This in itself is strange to me.
Darkfall has promised so much for an uknown developer that I will be both shocked and impressed if they can deliver it.
Gameplay wise it sounds very much like shadowbane 2.0, which could be very very good or very very bad. I don't know who besides hardcore pvpers will hang around once they find out that you can get griefed/corpse camped / ganked with impunity and have all your stuff taken.
You're funny.
It's the first delay of DF, don't let me start with AoC with their, what was it? 3 delays?
It's patethic that people are bashing on aventurine, it's a company with 30 employees for gods sake, one of them has to do the work of 6 of the employees from age of bewban.
Don't expect em to hype things up like AoC did, I just read some of their interviews pre-launch, and they really sound patethic, they are really bragging about AoC.
Atleast Tasos is rather straight to the point, and hey, I don't fking care if I get ''enough'' info, I just want to play the game, I'll have enough with the system requirements and retail price.
Ha ha ha. Let me start like this.
I laugh to the face of you all. I laugh knowing that either you are "jurnalists", "antagonists", or just "sheep" you'll heve an open mouth the first day u'll see this game playing in a computer next to you. You'll ask the person sitting next to you in a net-cafe where you possibly go now and then -What's this game? and he will say looking at you with a stunning expression -Darkfall ofc, noob! Where have you been the last 5 years?
And then you might recall all of your sayings in every forum you could and had all of you trolled! And you might even consider stop playing with your current old fashioned game (wow/war/aoc, you name it) and taste the sweet juice of that "most anticipated game", Darkfall.
But the true pleasure will be mine and that of many other. The ones who will write on the forums about this great game, analyze it and wonder how could such a small group of people produce such a unique game in time similar to other "big" and "trusted" companies. You'll stay stunned with the fact that 30 people gave a game to the public not only with less buggs than aoc, not only with a better start than wow, but even better than war (concerning buggs). A really completed game that was only delayed ONCE you morons. Only for 30 days...
But i will never stop making fools out of you all. I will never stop saying that people didn't believe in this game. I will never stop saying that you get what you deserve by the "big and trusted" companies! I will never stop laughing at you when Diablo3 has it's delays, when you say you waited too long for starcraft2, when EA makes profit only from the sales of warhammer and not the monthly subscriptions and so doesn't give a damn about you. I will never stop saying i believed in those people who had only a few money and chose not to hire a shepherd for all the sheep that roam the lands of earth in order to convince them about something that would get on their hands half-finished and full of bugs, but instead gave their time and money to make a true NEXT GENERATION MMO game!
But till then...keep on making me laugh. I am one like some of you. Only logged to post a thing or two. But i am different than you... I posted in favor of this game not against it! You wanna know why they didn't expect so many people in the beggining of Darkfall? Check the net for posts about it. Most of them are negative. But now that the waorld finds out about it...things change! Even YOU i am sure have applied for the beta. Why? Why since it's only a hype? They use to say Darkfall will never come out. Now that it's almost out there they changed their sayings-only a bit. In March they will eat both their tongues and their fingers. THey will have nothing bad to say or write...
Learned about Darkfall 4 days ago. Thank God Aris,cause i don't think i could wait 5 years!
I have 3 months subscription remaining in warhammer and i can't stand the anticipation for Darkfall...
When finally all of you will SHUT THE F**K UP!
Cya in Agon-a for conquer and domination over everyone! Long live the Alfar.
It is only the culture of having to play a game on pre-release that puts fans in any danger of Darkfall being a scam. Why do you need to play the game on launch day –10?
Wait for a month after launch and check the reviews. So what if you are behind by 30 to 40 days? Are you going to die in that time, is the internet going to blow up? The game will still be there and if as some think it is going to be fab you will get your chance to play it.
I would also question the reliability and authenticity of posters who like the one above who have only ever posted once and done so to do a fanboy hype of DF.
Let others be the MMO lemmings of 2009.
here here master25...and scot...scottie boy...good ol scot....listen to dane cooks rough around the edges...owned before you even posted like foresight in pokemon muahahahaha.....sorry i have to sometimes get out the ridiculous stuff before i post...but im actually glad darkfall got delayed, ive greatly anticipated the coming of this game and am still anxious to see if they can deliver what they promise. reading the reasons for the delay has me believing that they are trying their best to deliver what im hoping for which is the whole "fight to play" attitude as well as the conning and griefing and such....a game isnt a real game if you dont have to throw your controller or yell at the screen or punch something every now and then ^_^ and if you dont have that kind passion for gaming you are damn well missing out on something great. that being said, i have high hopes for this game and the delay has actually made me more excited about it than i was before.
Having played silkroad (1y) wow (1.5y) aoc(1month) warhammer(since oBETA) a little Eve and Lotro i know i am not a veteran but i know a few things. Having said that i know about Darkfall for 4 days i wonder why you even bother with me? Yes i am a funboy with 2 posts (hurray) just like so many out there and in here know all about Darkfall and talk with so negative language against it! I am reading posts and articles (those are only a few) the last 4 days mostly negative, and yet this game has only shown positive things... Now be gone. I've spoken.
I might still check out Darkfall if/when it comes out but for the moment all i can say to anyone is please dont pre order.
Well good article.
Anything to read about Darkfall is time well spent IMO :) Even if its about delays.
This is another 30 day MMO. Whilst these guys have actually taken the bold step of being niche with the the play style they have a pretty awful Avatar / Terrain engine. If you want people to pay to play then it will require a lot more to keep them than DF is offering.
Flame all you like, check this thread in 60 days after launch and see how it's going.
The fact that it is delayed just tells me that while it will be playable clearly it will still be crap when it first comes out and thus anyone with any common sense would more than likely wait a few months for all the fixes and what not. If they have to delay it they aren't going to be much better off in 30 days.
I remember that this game was in developement the same time the peice of crap Dark and Light was......... They kept delaying that game.......... I was in beta and it was such a crap shoot. I'm not trying to really compare this to that game play wise. I really hope that this is good, but mmorpg's lately are all hype and turn to be crap....... IMO WOW is prolly the only good mmorpg to come out in forever............
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt.
Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either.
I'm just saying, perspective is key.
Check this game's record - there is your perspective.
Other companies, that you know are actually making a game. This history behind this so called game, and the people behind it can no longer be given the benefit of doubt. There is more than just cause for concern regarding this whole game. This person Tasos now says, with a week, YES a week till launch they need more etsting and limitied players and delayed launch etc. Wasnt this the same person saying for damn years they have the ebst AI in the world testing the game, along with the ebst QA etam ever. And they had done real world simulations with thousands of ai bots or whatever in the game. This person Tasos, spews lies and lies on an epic scale. Wouldnt be suprised if they make a pre order page or soemthing then take everyoens money and do a runner.
You would have to be insane to give a company like Aventurine a sniff of any money, or details of access to money.
I can't think of one semi-solid reason to trust this company in any aspect of this 'production'.
Were no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do i
A full commitments what Im thinking of
You wouldnt get this from any other guy
I just wanna tell you how Im feeling
Gotta make you understand
Never gonna give you up
Never gonna let you down
Never gonna run around and desert you
Never gonna make you cry
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you
Weve know each other for so long
Your hearts been aching
But youre too shy to say it
Inside we both know whats been going on
We know the game and were gonna play it
And if you ask me how Im feeling
Dont tell me youre too blind to see
Somehow this song fits...
Peoples still believe in that game, i'm amazed. DArkfall will never be release, NEVER. They should have put the date to Feb 30th, this way it would make sense.
I was slowly being more and more convinced of Darkfall's actual existance of an MMORPG that would be played by real people in the real world over the internet.
Then they said they were having preorders *after being adamant in never holding preorders.
LOL. This one is going down in history. Unless they allow a large public mass of people to play the game on the 22nd of Jan BEFORE the preorders, and have it such that these players are under no NDA and can boast/bitch about the game all they want, there is little truth in the game's actual existence.
This is just getting retarded. This game is never going to come out, If its so ready like they have said multiple times then why do they keep putting back the release date?
That's my favourite statement ever. Hence why I've quoted it in my sig. The phrase 'Shooting yourself in the foot' springs to mind.
This is where the "gift" of selective sight and/or memory comes into play. It's been demonstrated here quite decidedly by certain members.
Step 1) If Tasos says something, quote it, stand by it and swear on it as 1000% absolute fact; whether there's anything to back it up or not.
Step 2) Deem anyone who expresses any doubt as a "troll" or "hater"
Step 3) When it doesn't come to pass, do one of the following:
- Completely ignore it was ever uttered, or any references to it.
- Outright deny it was ever said
- Act as though he actually meant something entirely different than what he said, or otherwise revise history.
Step 4) Attempt to "shame" those who bring it up for having such "unreasonable" expectations, accusing them of "wanting it to fail" (even when they haven't actually said any such thing), then deem them "haters" and "trolls".
Step 5) Wait for Tasos to make some other absolute statement, go to Step 1 and repeat.
That's pretty much been the routine here.
It's quite entertaining.
Read and you would know why. The game is ready, they just weren't expecting this many people wanting to play the game. The game is ready, they just need a bit more time to prepare their servers for a lot of people. They were expecting this to be a very small MMO with a small nitch subscriber-base.
This game has been in development limbo a ridiculously long time and it STILL isn't ready. They've had many years and now ask for one more month and thats for the european release. This is an omen. I don't expect good things from this game or the dev team.
To the above poster, it will be a niche game with a small community eventually. All mmorpgs begin with a large number of subs that dwindle down to half then less sometimes. Darkfall will go through a honeymoon phase with alot of gamers for a while but a ffa pvp game with full body looting will never go mainstream and will never be a huge success.
been watching closely for over 5 years. the game mechanics are unique and do raise the bar for any pvp oriented game around, but i'll gladly let the euros and fanboi's be me and my guildmates beta testers. i believe it will be another dark and light or some other game that has nothing to offer and will fail quickly. if i'm wrong, i've lost nothing and will join. if you've never learned the hard way, you eventually will.
People seem to confuse ' technical' readiness with 'operational' readiness. The game could very well be 'ready' from a programming POV for some time now;
When Tasos says it could launch any moment, I believe him.
Only if they launched the game as they had it in their mind, without consulting a wider audience on preferences over several issues, they could be disappointing a large number of clients (i.e. mobs being too hard for beginners, etc).
At the same time, balancing issues aside, they have already admitted not being ready to host the game for such a large playerbase. This is operational readiness; while the 'gold' client may be working flawlessly from a technical POV, the supporting functions that allow a player to play the game over the internet are not ready yet (billing, server-capacity, etc).
Double talk and excuses FTW!
I also happen to live in Greece you know. And have talked with people working on DF you know.
Or maybe you don't.
But I couldn't care less, I have my own reasons for knowing DF is no scam and will launch quite successfully.
If its ready as you say why is the NDA stil up, why are they refusing to let media like MMORPG.COM preview it? If you beleive Tasos why then at open coffee did he say the launch was still going to happen on the 22nd, and furthermore that the open beta would start on the 15th? Sure seems a bit weird to me, You say you have no doubts what so ever and still believe Tasos 100% ??? You do know launch includes servers, one can't launch a MMO without servers? So if the game ready for launch then the servers must also be ready. One can't happen without the other
Just to clarify a few things:
1. I was the one that mentioned the Open Coffee meeting to the community; the reason was, I had been invited to attend it by one of the co-organizers, old friend of mine, but didn't make it on that day. Many claim that that meeting was a fund-raising attempt. This is completely and laughably erroneous. It was an informal meeting, addressed to mostly young students and aspiring young professionals. As I said, an old friend of mine was in the group of people that organized this.
2. Tasos never said OB would start on the 15th; that was wildly speculated by the community. You can accuse them of not stepping up and refuting it, but you can't say they ever promised such a thing.
3. I have no doubts whatsoever on Darkfall's successful launch, provided of course no Act of God takes place (you know, like civil war breaking out, major catastrophe hitting Athens, Greece's economy going bankrupt, etc)
4. The server infrastructure preliminary design for Darkfall was much smaller than the current demand. Launching the game with the current setup would simply crash the servers, much to the frustration of everybody and harming Darkfall's first impression to the public.
5. To my knowledge, Aventurine never denied MMORPG.COM beta access; they simply said it will take place 'when the time is ready' - or something along those lines.
I hope these help.
I think the overzealous fan base of Darkfall has done more damage to the game than anything else.
The outrageous claims made by these people coupled with the tightfisted grip on information by Aventurine has given great fuel to lots of the negativity associated with this game.
I don't think I have ever seen such a marketing fiasco as this game has generated. Then picking a DVD distributer as a the publisher isn't the brightest move either.
The sad thing is, it is probably a decent game, but it's features have been so overblown by the fan base there will be many disappointed people when it finally releases.
Speculations aside, this game is an unknown commodity that we will all have to wait and see how it develops, but I firmly believe it is not as good as fans want you to believe nor as bad as the skeptics view it.
I think my biggest concern is the server technology, that has yet to be tested by live players and could be a big thorn in the side of Aventurine.
I do wish that Aventurine would move Tasos to less visible role and let someone else be the front man, he is just not suited for that position.
whatever makes you happy guys, doctor said to say 'yes' all the time...
and don't miss a dose on that medication of yours...it shows
Are you really going to risk your cash on pre-ordering with another delay. Please don't get me wrong, I'm still very excited and hope that the launch does happen. But to put my money in an unsecure fund would be financially ignorant.
I disagree, i think every hard core fan of DF should immediately pre-order a copy of the game.
Maybe even 2 or 3 copies. You kow, just to show their support and trust. ::evil grin::
Won't be playing but this doesn't surprise much. Company's always set the launch date too early and always seem to expect not to run into much problems. As has been proven countless times; the opposite is true and delays will come. Really makes one wonder why all company's keep walking the same circle instead of doing it different.
TBH, a lot of games have been released on time but have turned out to have a lot of bugs etc. and end up being half-baked peices of crap, but all i gotta say i rather have the delay and have a decent game in the end then a pile of crap which gets tweaked over the year by then nobody will be playing....
Beautiful post, I see Darkfall as the open PvP rabid version of Ryzom. Great concept, nice looking game, small avid community, bad PR and managing. :(
How DF got most anticipated game for this site is boggling, makes me think most people didn't bother to vote.
What is the main idea of one product?!Of course to be sold to the costumers(by buing the product you are sure that is functional correct and dosen't have any errors for this moment and the future) and etc.Still the PC
games are different then others products you can buy some of them, but you can't be sure that you will be amuse for more then, week month or year .This all depends on the information you gather for the product which is distributed to you by the Official info,Employees and etc of the (it depend)"company creator" of the game.
For me this game lack information (someone said that there too many negative post about it ,sceptic yes ,but not negative .Now this comment is negative :) )I saw a large fan base which told EVERYONE THAT THE GAME WILL BE THE KING OF KINGS and etc .Well I like fans of future ambisous products, but sometimes is too much. They created there own negative influence around the game. Which of course seeing it like a manager I can say that when there is BIG NOISE about somthing , it can show a very immpresive hype rating :) and this is good for the commpany and the product .(it dosen't matter that your are going to play the game for 1 hour or several years,still you bought the game )
The analysation of the situation made some questions that are kinda not for 1)children 2)stupid people(some of the posts were so unmatured or stupid and I tought they can't show an activity of the brain called THINKING ).The first question of mine was are there really people in the company, who actually knew about the hype level of the game, because everything can be show like this......(Person 1-Ok you made the game famous and we are "ready" to launch it .......after couple of months.......Person 2-The game hype level is too hight right now ,the possible players to play the game is OVER 200 000 .Person 1-Holly s*** we can't contain so much players on our servers we need time.They waited for 10 yaers they will wait for 2 more months ...)So really they didn't espect to be OVER 200 000 (enought with this joke )?Are they happy now ???Is there anyone playng the game right now ?IF there is please mass spam of pics presenting the gameplay(and I'm talking about recent pictures not the ones spread in the internet somthing like that can make your game hype level fell fast) .You can always hit the negative influence with these maneuvres,people want playable product not a crap "toy".Somthing that they can see or "touch".
You say it will be better after a month... Ok,but don't forget you can say that again after a mont , year or couple of years.I'm not particularly interested in this game,I'm currently playng (I won't say what
),so I don't care if the game is Epic or it's an Epic Fail.And again some of the people who post positive comments are fanatics about this game and it's laughtable....Or they aren't fanatics and it's somthing different ....?!
It really boggles my mind that anyone believes Darkfall is a real game, or at a minimum, anything close to what has been advertised and promised.
Why is MMORPG.com giving this company the benefit of the doubt? Where is the proof that this is a real game aside from a very poorly constructed website? Every supposed beta leak has been debunked as fraudulent, meaning that if the game has beta testers, they are the first in history to stick to their NDA completely. That's more than a little suspicious.
January 22 will arrive, and nothing will be available to the public. Then MMORPG.com will once again spin a delay into something positive and give these people the "benefit of the doubt".
Until a game has pre-order options from reputable online and retail distributors, it should be considered a non-entity. And it's not like DF will be te first (or last) game to not actually be released.
agreed, it may work if ever finished, but they are no where near. one of my guildmates is in the beta atm and speaks highly of the landscape and detail therein. when speaking of combat, he says it's ok atm, but could use refining in order not be repetitive. he says, " mobs are scarce and when you have 50 or so beta testers running around a massive world in order to find a few camps to raise skill, the pvp is good (though rarely found until all testers know the few mob camps available). there is no substance. the world is just empty ". again i say it's like the mmo " dark and light "
delays are inevitable and spin will be the future of darkfall until they open it up and remove the nda. promises of massive open beta testing, no nda and no pre-orders that all become just the opposite as hype grows is concerning. those that have not been around mmo's for 5-10 years, have not seen some of the worst scams brought to fruition. red flags are at their highest ever for the intuitive amongst us, but i can't blame the newer gamers who drool over darkfall's concept and promises. they are almost too hard to ignore.
i will in the end give the makers of darkfall the greatest of accolades should they succeed, since the project is massive in scope, as well as considering the lack of funds and individuals compared to the larger and more profitable concerns.
http://www.gamespp.com/betatestinggames/mmo/RealmsofTorment.html
dark fall looks alot like this game he ran before.
slow down son. please use microsoft word for spelling and grammar because that post is damn hard to read. if you're asian or european, then i understand and sincerely apologize for correcting your english.
http://www.gamespp.com/betatestinggames/mmo/RealmsofTorment.html
dark fall looks alot like this game he ran before.
exquisite reporting and damn good information. thank you.
exquisite reporting and damn good information. thank you.
They came up with this because Audiovisual has a distribuitor in Romania, so of course the trolls think Dan Antonescu is in charge (have to be pretty idiotic to believe their proof - because there is none)
"It is a network of publishing, has distributors in bulgaria also. Listen, I'm Romanian, I know about Dan since I was there when Mourning went Live
Since I lived in Romania does that make me Dan Antonescu? Since Audiovisual has a distribuitor in Romania that makes it Dan Antonescu's Operation? You know Dracula lived in Romania too, maybe just maybe its a scam to drink the blood of MMORPG enthusiasts around the world..."
"He is not listed as working there and absolutely no one has ever heard of him there (call the distributors in RO if u dont believe me) and he lives in another country.
Logical conclusion: he is not involved in this project!
So to state again: DAN ANTONESCU FROM MOURNING DEVELOPMENT TEAM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AUDIOVISUAL SA (Darkfall Online's Publisher)"
exquisite reporting and damn good information. thank you.
They came up with this because Audiovisual has a distribuitor in Romania, so of course the trolls think Dan Antonescu is in charge (have to be pretty idiotic to believe their proof - because there is none)
"It is a network of publishing, has distributors in bulgaria also. Listen, I'm Romanian, I know about Dan since I was there when Mourning went Live
Since I lived in Romania does that make me Dan Antonescu? Since Audiovisual has a distribuitor in Romania that makes it Dan Antonescu's Operation? You know Dracula lived in Romania too, maybe just maybe its a scam to drink the blood of MMORPG enthusiasts around the world..."
"He is not listed as working there and absolutely no one has ever heard of him there (call the distributors in RO if u dont believe me) and he lives in another country.
Logical conclusion: he is not involved in this project!
So to state again: DAN ANTONESCU FROM MOURNING DEVELOPMENT TEAM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AUDIOVISUAL SA (Darkfall Online's Publisher)"
and 9/11/2001 was actually brought about by hugo chavez of venezuela in order to overthrow the evil american government. do the research bro ... and learn. why waste money and learn the hard way.
I cut the rest of the crap out, as it does not pertain to my answering this question.
Here is a link.
http://i34.tinypic.com/20z339k.jpg
Click on it.
Look at the names in the chatbox.
Connect to irc.stratics.com 6667.
Come and see these people living and breathing.
It is a real game.
I cut the rest of the crap out, as it does not pertain to my answering this question.
Here is a link.
http://i34.tinypic.com/20z339k.jpg
Click on it.
Look at the names in the chatbox.
Connect to irc.stratics.com 6667.
Come and see these people living and breathing.
It is a real game.
Hmmm - thanks!
Interesting.
I cut the rest of the crap out, as it does not pertain to my answering this question.
Here is a link.
http://i34.tinypic.com/20z339k.jpg
Click on it.
Look at the names in the chatbox.
Connect to irc.stratics.com 6667.
Come and see these people living and breathing.
It is a real game.
That pic does not look very promising.
So I don't proclaim to be any expert in the matter, but here goes:
a) I've never heard of Darkfall until today, and only because I was here to see what's new, upcoming, nifty, etc. in the MMO world.
b) As a corollary to the first point, I came here mainly due to the fact that I'm currently playing Vanguard, and was idly wondering what else is around. Mainly I was wondering if the idea of a potential WOW-killer actually existed.
c) I think it's awesome, assuming this company is real and NOT vaporware (let's just assume that temporarily for argument's sake) that they're taking their time to not release utter crap.
As a veteran of Vanguard, from closed beta to present, I know what it means when a company is mismanaged and releases something before it is ready. What's so very incredibly sad about this SOE and Sigil spawn is that it might have been really awesome IF.... if they hadn't killed their player-base upfront by releasing a "beta product" as a "payer product."
I played closed-beta, and open-beta... And I was quite impressed with it. Said I to myself: omg screw WOW, this will be awesome... yes it has flaws, but the art, the world, the content... it just needs time for tweaking. And then I heard it's release date, and I remember disbelieving the rumors until I went to the website to confirm it... yes, they were going to release it...
WTF? But... it's nowhere NEAR ready for release! The sheer amount of bugs that need fixing. At which point there was a rush to bug-fix, right before release... a heroic effort, but not enough. Seriously, how on earth could you release an MMO with major grouping bugs? Was someone retarded?
It was mainly the group bug that killed it, as well as the inadequate server testing. Combine extreme lag, lots of crashing issues, and the fact that YOU CAN'T GROUP PROPERLY, and you get a lot of angry people quitting and vowing to never come back. Add the slight issue of certain areas seeming to have been sloppily put together last minute (in fact, very likely), and you get a recipe for failure.
I stuck with the game, and it has greatly improved over the course of 2 years since release (I know, long time eh). Mostly I play with my fiance, it's sorta sentimental for us... Anyway. Yes, it's greatly improved. Yes, there's a lot of cool things about it. Yes there's a few left who actually play the game, but... that initial Failure to Launch Properly issue is still a lingering issue. SOE has tried to convince people to come back to the game, with incentives like "one free month" and whatnot, but let's face it: most of them are jaded now. Walmart will never put it on their shelves because it was such a failure the first time. Players might come back, but it won't be enough. The massive world feels empty and alone sometimes... it's problematic getting raids together for the sheer reason that the community is small. The flame war that ensued post-launch killed many potential new players on many forums, and no amount of "no really it's better now" is going to get people to try it, especially with new MMOs coming out all the time.
The main thing that makes an MMO work is player-base. It's all about release. The rush to buy it and the hype surrounding it cause a large community to come in... and if the MMO is good enough to retain these players, then it becomes a cash cow for the company, and can be ridden for a long time, like WOW or EQ. Release a game, no matter how great it is, before it's ready... and you kill that community. Or if it's crap, you also kill that community. AND ITS NEVER COMING BACK, at least, not in large enough numbers. VGs slight resurgence in recent months has everything to do with there not being another WOW since WOW. Everyone's tired of WOW and looking for the next big thing, and when there isn't... well...
Back to Darkfall. Perhaps the MMO market has learned from its mistakes and isn't releasing a game before it's done. Understandable. Or it might be vaporware. Perhaps it's the next Conan eh? (Very pretty, but where's the content?) Wisdom would almost dictate that waiting for launch before spending a penny is a good thing. It would be nice if there was some way of getting a committee of beta players (assuming they exist) together to comment on a) is it good? is it really good? b) assuming the game reached it's vision and had all bugs fixed and all content flushed out, would you pay money for it? c) in the state that it's in now, would you pay money for it?
Probably best to adopt a wait and see attitude.
I for one don't mind a company holding back on a release to ensure that all components are integrated correctly and to make required updates to the game as per feedback from Beta. If only AoC had done this, I might still be playing the game. The less mistakes, the better. Take your time guys, make it a good one.
Yeah, but it does seem to suggest that there is actually a game there.
It doesn't say much else (is it good or bad, how playable is it etc) but then again, that's fine because there is an NDA in place.
And I try not to judge a game on screen shots. A couple of my favorite games are not much to look at.
Really, it's all about the game play, and in MMOs it's about how the different elements work together.
In the case of Darkfall, it promises Full Loot PvP - which is a recipe for disaster UNLESS you have players separated by time and space (a big game world) - which Darkfall also promises.
I will be interested to see.
AoC was not in development for 8 years...
AoC did not refuse to let anyone play their game...
Even now they refuse to let an editor from mmorpg.com or any place like Gamespot , IGN , Gamespy play this game.
Wonder why?
Tasos came up with a real good excuse though.. Because they don't want to hype the game.
AoC was not in development for 8 years...
AoC did not refuse to let anyone play their game...
Even now they refuse to let an editor from mmorpg.com or any place like Gamespot , IGN , Gamespy play this game.
Wonder why?
Tasos came up with a real good excuse though.. Because they don't want to hype the game.
maybe they dont want to sell... ? ^^
True. But being an early player of AoC, I can say that it SHOULD have been in dev for 8 years, since it was far from finished and buggy as hell.
As for letting editors play the game, well, you know, its THEIR product, I guess they have the right to decide who plays when right? No harm here really.
in all honesty, I don't really see the point you're trying to make. All I said was that I'm glad they're not scared to hold back in order to fix stuff and make it better, than to release a half finished product into the market, and then have the masses (I assume you would be one of them) screaming that they should have held back.
You know, just to be fair.
I back adventurine completely, but on the off chance that DF flops (which I don't think it will), doesn't the sheer amount of fan and player support, combined with the rapidity of fanbase growth in such a short period of time following particular announcements give other developers some iota of an idea of what the MMO community is looking for? At all?
Seems that the PR people should be able to get a few hints off of something like this and take a marketing advantage where it is shown. It says much for their intelligence levels if they're incompetent enough not to.
Seems that if DF were to flop, if certain companies were smart, they would do correctly what it did not.
Just throwing that out there for people to munch on.
I did not say it did not exist, or that it sucked. I simply stated that a KNOWN THIEF AND CON ARTIST who has tried his hand in the industry before, and ran off with alot of investors/fans cash now works with dipshit and dipshit#2.
If I made either of those statements, how are you going to reassure me of anything? Twit...
DiKU, Angband, M59, EQ, EQ2, brief stint with SWG, VG. Currently not doing shit, because there is not shit to do in this industry.
Now if Epic made GoW:Online, I'd be there in a second... Only because it would be different, and they would self publish with a few strategic partners.
Interestingly enough, to my knowledge, the only major female contributor to DikuMUD never came close to doing any development on Angband.
Aventurine also has made some appearances at greek IT-related conferences and in the greek media. While not visible to the broad mmorpg public, that would seem to debunk any two-employee conspiracy theories.
All in all, it would seem that you are the con-artist. Who has just been discredited by some investigative journalism :P
I did not say it did not exist, or that it sucked. I simply stated that a KNOWN THIEF AND CON ARTIST who has tried his hand in the industry before, and ran off with alot of investors/fans cash now works with dipshit and dipshit#2.
If I made either of those statements, how are you going to reassure me of anything? Twit...
DiKU, Angband, M59, EQ, EQ2, brief stint with SWG, VG. Currently not doing shit, because there is not shit to do in this industry.
Now if Epic made GoW:Online, I'd be there in a second... Only because it would be different, and they would self publish with a few strategic partners.
Interestingly enough, to my knowledge, the only major female contributor to DikuMUD never came close to doing any development on Angband.
Aventurine also has made some appearances at greek IT-related conferences and in the greek media. While not visible to the broad mmorpg public, that would seem to debunk any two-employee conspiracy theories.
All in all, it would seem that you are the con-artist. Who has just been discredited by some investigative journalism :P
Where can we see anything that happened at these greek IT related confrences and media events that can show the current state of the game?
I am sorry, but there has been something fishy about this project since it was rumblings in 2002, 2005 (when it was reannounced) and even today. It's not that people really want the game to fail, its just that they want evidence and hard proof that there IS a game. Instead they just get the same recycled screenshots and CGI movies. The fact that Aventurine is reluctant to show the game to anyone in the gaming press leads people to believe the game is a scam, and rightly so.
Hell, if they are as far along as they claim to be, showing a 5 minute clip of someone playing the actual game couldnt hurt at all. This "take my word for it" crap is, well, crap.
that was damn fukkin funny ... still laughing after 10 minutes. thx, i needed that.
o'reilly pwns
Interestingly enough, to my knowledge, the only major female contributor to DikuMUD never came close to doing any development on Angband.
Aventurine also has made some appearances at greek IT-related conferences and in the greek media. While not visible to the broad mmorpg public, that would seem to debunk any two-employee conspiracy theories.
All in all, it would seem that you are the con-artist. Who has just been discredited by some investigative journalism :P
Where can we see anything that happened at these greek IT related confrences and media events that can show the current state of the game?
I am sorry, but there has been something fishy about this project since it was rumblings in 2002, 2005 (when it was reannounced) and even today. It's not that people really want the game to fail, its just that they want evidence and hard proof that there IS a game. Instead they just get the same recycled screenshots and CGI movies. The fact that Aventurine is reluctant to show the game to anyone in the gaming press leads people to believe the game is a scam, and rightly so.
Hell, if they are as far along as they claim to be, showing a 5 minute clip of someone playing the actual game couldnt hurt at all. This "take my word for it" crap is, well, crap.
http://darkfallworld.com/node/125
I hear you on the fishy part, they are a new developer, without a well-known publisher, spending very little attention to the global games-media. And they have made some condradicting statements on issues such as pre-orders.
That isn't an excuse for people like Laurann to come up with unbased accusations however, in most countries that would be considered libel. And although it's near impossible to deal with legally when it happens on the internet, it doesn't make it less morally despicable.
Personally I think there are good signs that they are for real and that the game may live up to it's expectations, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high until I actually have the game running on my own pc either.
I don't know why people get so worked up about stuff like this with Darkfall. It's like you want it to fail or are maybe just afraid that things are not fitting with how you expect them to be based on previous MMORPGs and so it's wrong. The thing is that most of the current MMORPGs are pure garbage and most had awful launches incorporating only a small fraction of the features they promised. It's took years for MMORPGs like Vanguard and EverQuest II to become half decent games and they did that AFTER release. I'm not at all scared or suspicious that they're not following the accepted model because, frankly, the accepted model does not work.
None of you have spent any money on Darkfall - Right now they owe you nothing. Get a grip. When it comes out and if it turns out to be as awesome as it sounds then it'll be an awesome addition to the genre and we'll have gained something good. If it turns out to be yet another disappointment we'll have lost nothing.
Adventurine themselves haven't hyped this game anything like as much as other developers did with their own games. It's all player-hype and I hope that drives a message home to game developers all over the world - The MMORPG player base wants more sandbox MMORPGs with depth, no classes and no levels. No more WoW clones please - if we wanted WoW, we'd play it.
Do you really have to keep cut and pasting this in every post?
Not enough Tacos to go around!!
Thanx for the insight, now I know what to do when I get in the game. Which will bw A.S.A.P.!
To be honest, this game isn't my cup of tea. It's not meant to be. I absolutely HATE PvP. To me, all that idiotic hopping around and random ganking ruin immersion. "Carebear" or not, if some kid took all my stuff after he jumped me while I was killing some mob, or something, I'd be pissed off. All my style aside, I hope the devs do what they need to do, I hope this game releases and is a big success. The more good mmos out there the better for the genre. Do I like the idea of ganky world PvP? No. But I don't expect every game on the market to cater to me. [I'm an adult. . . legally.] I hope this game thrives, and rekindles the creativity in the mmo developement world. I wish it all the success in the world. 6-7 million subscribers! Go for it! [Never know.] Who knows, maybe some time down the line I might give this game a try. They say you can hire guards. [Granted, they'll probably be horribly expensive, but at least it's an option for a guy like me.] I'll hire a bunch of guards and become a greedy merchant, or a crime boss. Both of those would suit my personality, and at that point, if I did get shanked prison-style I'd still be having fun.
Remember kids, newbies shanked by "vets" probably aren't having fun. Stay in school! [So, I can play while you're in school or asleep!]
Research is very hard, but the distributor seems real enough to me. Are you sure you do not want to at least retract the accusations towards Audio Visual?
sounds a little bit doubtful. they announced they are launching in a month. noe they changed the period again. so~~~ ok, i'll put aside this game to another.
I've got a good feeling about Darkfall, be patient! Fool around with some free to plays for a while...
when is it coming out again?
login to your darkfall forums account and read the 40 posts on my thread of the " darkfall parody vid " ... it's goddamn hilarious what these fawnbois get upset about ...
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=109789
most are pissed about the parody ... then a moderator chimes in ...
see the vid here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4efyFOpy_E
I would. I was financially ignorant for buying the PotBS Box, Tabula Rasa Box, AoC Box based on their false promotions. Those afformentioned games turned out to be nothing more than re-skinned PvE centric games with very poorly integrated player influence. Those mmorpgs turned into the garden-variety single-player rpg with the added benefit of paying $15 a month to cooperate with more than 8-16 other players as is the case with..well...many single-player rpgs.
I happen to have been able to follow this DF game for a very long time, and it's no different than any other game in its development path...its done when its done. It's launch path has followed the same as others...there is inevitably launch date pushes. Many who scoff at that hide their game-play preference from the board, but I guarantee that most are playing a game that has taken a similar path.
With all the game-play information out on DF, and there is tons of it. . .this game is shaping up to be that player-driven centric and influenced mmorpg that I'd been hoping for for the past 10 years or so.
So, yea...I'd pay to pre-order and get an opportunity to participate sooner than later, and if it turns out to be crappy...I'll say the same thing about it that I say about WoW, WAR, AoC, PotBS, LotRO....they are nothing more than overly-hyped single-player rpgs that are developer, npc, and computer-code PvE driven where the content you pay for is nothing more than being able to play cooperatively against the machine with more than 8-16 players at a time.
I would.
And thats why scams are still working. Cause there are enough people buying a product, any product, without actually sampling it.
Dark and Light > Mourning > Darkfail and Afailurine
OK lets see it
AUDIOVISUAL SA. lets see your proof kid
i'm really excited to see this
watch now.....
Let's see your proof, "kid". You say with utmost authority that Antonescu is not involved. So obviously you have the proof yourself, correct?
In fact, lets see the board of directors. This should be public info there in Romania, where you live, so get to it.
Do you realize you are the people who are making the alagation here? Its your perogative to provide proof not the other way around.
You know i do not have anything against trolling against darkfall, questions should be asked. But peoples here inability to put things in logical patterns on this board is down right scary.
Even if darkfall does flop like dark and light, which i have always admitted was likely, you people still can't claim any predictive credit. You never put a fricken logical argument together. case and point is the above.
So where is this Dan Antonescu allegations coming from?
Answer No Where.
the fact there is no proof of it is the the proof.
Problem solved you guys can all go back to whatever you were doing beforehand.
I am glad i could help you guys out.
Thank you?
darkfall is a non-factor atm, unless you have no life and nothing to do but sit inside their forums day in and day out waiting for scraps. it will open eventually ( i beleive 2/25/09 ) and ppl will subscribe ( like me, because i do have money and would like to see what they have or have not succeeded in ), but their 9 year evolution will be their downfall. i give darkfall 4-6 months, after release, then most will move to another sandbox game like mortal or what have you. i give credit to aventurines attempt, but they have failed in making their real pvp followers happy. unless darkfall has so much to offer in order to keep the base in game, most will move on soon after release, when other pvp games emerge.
go darkfall, please succeed. you have enriched the nich that is the pvp crowd. too bad it was way too late for yourselves to benefit long term.
I still don't think PvPers are a "niche". Most mmoers are PvPers. RPers are the niche. PvPers are everywhere.
PVP'ers are not niche. There are millions of them. Guess what? They play FPS games.
RP'ers are not niche. There are millions of them. Guess what? They play RPG games and Tabletop games.
Now here comes the catch:
MMO PVP'ers are a niche. Just like MMO RP'ers are a niche.
MMO PVE'ers are everywhere.
Doesn't mean the MMO PVE'ers don't like some PVP action now and then. Sure they do.
Cheers
LOL
I'm just gonna say the same thing I've been saying about Darkfall since about a year or so ago now:
1) I would love to see it come out and be awesome. I've been dying for a really good skill based fantasy MMORPG for years. Right now the only one is UO.
2) While 1 above is entirely true... I'll believe Darkfall is a real game when it releases. It's got very little to do with this delay, which is pretty benign as far as delays go... It has everything to do with Adventurine's track record (or lack thereof)
Oh.. and my new add-on since they're now talking pre-order:
They can dream on. There is no bloody way I'd pre-order this game. Free trial or free play period before purchase is the only way they're getting my money.
Wrong wrong wrong
MMO PVP'ers are not a 'niche by any stretch. Most MMO's have a very sizeable PVP community. WoW, for example, has a huge PVP community (and I don't even like WoW). EVE Online has over 200,000 players and the game is 100% based on PVP. That's not a 'niche' anymore. That's mainstream.
Yes there are fewer PVP'ers than PVE'ers in most MMORPG's but you can't really call them a 'niche' so much as a 'smaller playerbase'. A "niche" is a couple thousand players tops. Pretty much a proven fact that there are a lot more than that.
I won't even go into how many people play Guild Wars, which is another PVP oriented game with a semi-decent PVE system tacked on.
Exactly! Well stated.
Here is the red flag! All these people cry'ing about the delay are going to be the same people calling for a NERF!. I can't kill this dude 1 on 1 so it must not be fair, yet if you killed that guy 1 on 1 it's fair? LOL
QQ some more scrubs. I Hope none of you buy the game. I hope this gmae is better than SWG pre-CU was. If it is, game over!