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Alganon (ALG)
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MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Final  (rel 12/01/09)  | Pub:Quest Online
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Alganon Forum » General Discussion » Why/How is Alganon still running?

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53 posts found
  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2360

6/13/11 12:42:22 PM#21

Let's get the thread back to Alganon and not let it get completely off track. Thanks guys.

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  User Deleted
6/28/11 8:10:01 PM#22
Originally posted by dsmart

Let me address your points. I know you're not going to accept them, but this is not for your benefit.

...

Well...

If nothing else, Derek, no one could ever say you aren't thorough :).

Great read!

I was giving Alganon a try a bit ago but sorta drifted away from it (as I have from the MMO scene altogether lately... getting more into single-player/console games). It does feel rather derivative in some ways, I agree. But it also has its own sorta unique "feel" as well. It's intriguing to me.

And, for the benefit of others who may still be skeptical... Gotta give credit where it's due. Derek did make a lot of statements when he first came into the picture, which many people responded to with "yeah right" and predictions that Alganon would be taken offline in short order.

Yet, here we are with the game still running and the announcement of an, apparently, substantial expansion coming... not to mention branching the IP out. Whatever you think of the game, that's not the kind of thing you see in a game that's "utterly failing".  They're doing something right somewhere.

I'm genuinely impressed.

Alganon remains interesting to me for a rew reasons:

1) I do like the ideas behind it and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

2) As a fan of game design and aspiring indie developer myself, I take particular interest in indie projects and typically root for them to succeed.

3) Like Horizons/Istaria, Alganon (which still sounds to me like some kooky rehab for laundry detergent addicts...) is another David Allen-related project that seems to have found life beyond his involvement. Horizons is still chugging along all these years later. And now, we have Alganon still being actively supported. I kinda wonder where Allen will pop up next and if he'll go for a hat-trick. Call it morbid curiosity.

Maybe he'll pop up working on a new game with Brad McQuaid. Now wouldn't that be something.

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

6/30/11 9:06:33 PM#23

Well, I think the end of Alganon is around the corner.  WoW has gone free to play until lv 20, and City of Heroes/Villians is going free soon.  Add to that Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and Lord of the Rings Online being free to play, with new free to play games coming out fairly constantly, I do not believe Alganon will survive the year.  Before anyone flames, I am not saying that Alganon is a bad f2p game, its just that more and more f2p games are coming out that are (much) better than Alganon.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Yavin_Prime

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 233

6/30/11 9:18:19 PM#24

I have to say that of the F2P MMOs I've tried Alganon is one of the better ones. Obviously it would do better if it had a larger player base and I truely hope Alganon continues on into the future. I'd play it but the truth is I have a lifetime sub to STO and I'm a huge Trek fan so that is my home. If I ever need a break from vulcans and klingons and I don't have much money I know I'll stop by and try Alganon again. I still have it on my computer.

On a personal note I'd love to see Alganon get some form of housing. That to me would be a great addition.

  skeaser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 3687

Don't die mad, just die.

6/30/11 10:26:01 PM#25

Y'know, I'm normally in the "D. Smart and all his games are failing" boat. But the fact they have the funds for a DC comic, spin-off games and an ex-pac make me wonder.


A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

7/01/11 10:23:47 AM#26
Originally posted by skeaser

Y'know, I'm normally in the "D. Smart and all his games are failing" boat. But the fact they have the funds for a DC comic, spin-off games and an ex-pac make me wonder.

Are you wondering, "Why hasn't the game failed yet?" or "Why did D. Smart put money that should have gone into game development into fuding a DC comic?"  I'm wondering both.  After all, funding a DC comic is a double edged sword; its a big name company, but that doesn't mean it will be a good comic. Hawk and Dove had their own comic series, but it only ran for 6 issues.  Sure they were popular characters that appeared in other DC comics and animated media, but the point is that the comic that started them was a failure due to a schism between the creators (ironic given the schism between the titular characters).  In my opinion, if D. Smart wants the comic to work, he should have as little to do with the creation of the comic as possible.  Sure, he should be able to give his opinions, but when it comes to characterizations, story, etc. he should let the experts handle it.

I had my doubts about Alganon in the past, and admittedly they are changing.  It is fairly obvious that this comic deal is a way to advertise the game, but this comic could make or break the game.  If it is a good comic,  people who read it will say, "Wow, this is a great comic, and it is based off an MMO?  I got to try it!"  If it isn't, well they will read it and put it out of their mind.

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  Jergis

Novice Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 37

7/01/11 6:20:17 PM#27

-DC has put out a *lot* of product for games, both successful and complete failures, over hte last few years to raise revenue. Just ask anyone at your LCS about their standards and it isn't what i would consider a boom or bust scenario.

FYI and all that, just because DC's brand is on it does not mean it was expensive nor a good idea.

Jergis

  fallonfallon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/12/11
Posts: 104

Live Free Or Die Horde !

7/01/11 6:47:52 PM#28

I tried alganon about a week ago again for the 3rd time..To me a community can literally make or break a game. I play mmo's for a reason. If i wanted to solo play i would just play The Witcher 2 or somthing. Thats exactly what it feels like when playing Alganon.. A single player console game. Maybe once they expand the IP ..the europe server will get a descent community to join.

I will definetly check it out...The game doesnt seem to be that bad other than the population itself..so i keep checkiing on it every once in awhile. I dont really understand how they are getting the funding for these things up and coming though..Maybe they sellin weed..lmao! idk..jk!

 

BTW WoW isnt going f2p..just the trial is going to be unlimited thats all. Still the same old trial version.

  Dapyx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 10

7/02/11 7:59:08 AM#29
Originally posted by dbstylin34

this game doesnt even deserve a comparison to wow in any way,shape or form. its embarrassing this game can even be classed as an mmorpg..

Well, it isn't a mmorpg, as mmorpg stands for massivelly multiplayer online role playing game and alganon is neither massivelly nor multiplayer. 

Is just another team of non professionals trying to make a mmorpg and failing royally at it.

  dsmart

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/10
Posts: 201

7/02/11 8:46:30 AM#30

A comic will make or break a game? Seriously? I mean, where do you get this stuff from?

Saying that money going into a comic - which is a marketing expense btw - should go into game development is like saying you shouldn't market a game at all. That's just silly and since everyone thinks that they have all the answers, silly opinions like this are the result.

Fact is, Ricardo Sanchez (the writer) and I go way back from when he was at Turner GameTap where we worked together. I ran into him at GDC this year and we got talking. In the end, he showed me the Rift comic (Telara Chronicles) he worked on while he was at Trion Worlds and it seemed like a good marketing idea to promote Alganon. So he got in touch with DC, they said they were interested in doing it. The rest is history and the Alganon comic (story based on the upcoming expansion pack) was born.

DC gets to distribute it as they do other game based comic properties e.g. San Diego ComicCon, New York ComicCon, their iPad store etc. We also get copies for promotional purposes. And due to how the story was written, In can requisition additional volumes if I decide to do so.

So for me, it is a marketing expense that cost about as much as the six month PC Gamer full and single page ads cost. So either I take out ads or I do a comic. It is all about what I want to do with my marketing budget. I decided to do something different. So comic it was.

Simple.

People who are rooting for a train wreck are usually disappointed when their preconcieved disaster doesn't happen. So I know that because Alganon is still around, it burns those who were hoping that it will fail. It boils down to  this: those very same people are forgetting that I ran into the same sort of derision with my first game back in 1996 when it was released prematurely by its then publisher. I'm still here.

Again, if you don't like the game, don't play it. This is just a game that I want to see succeed and I will continue to do my best to make that happen. If you're sitting around waiting for it to fail (hence shutdown), you have a pretty long wait because considering the low overhead, even if I fired the entire team tomorrow, the game is already 100% finished and self-sustaining. To the point that putting it into maintenance mode just means that it will keep running as long as I can afford to pay for the servers. There are lesser games out there still running; ever wondered why that is?

Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18987

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/02/11 11:08:07 AM#31
Actually, I decided to give the game a try, to sort out the truth from the fiction. But that will be a thead of it own on what I find there.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  MadDemon64

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1071

Why is it that fantasy trolls are vulnerable to fire, but internet trolls thrive on flame wars?

7/02/11 11:35:18 AM#32
Originally posted by dsmart

A comic will make or break a game? Seriously? I mean, where do you get this stuff from?

Saying that money going into a comic - which is a marketing expense btw - should go into game development is like saying you shouldn't market a game at all. That's just silly and since everyone thinks that they have all the answers, silly opinions like this are the result.

Easy: you need to balance spending money on development and advertising.  If you spend a lot of money on advertising but little on development, the end product is junk that everyone knows about and that everyone knows is junk.  If you spend a lot of money on development but little on advertising, you get gold that few people know about.  This comic is, story aside, advertisment for the game, plain and simple.  By putting money into this comic, you are putting less money into development than you would if you just payed for a simple advertisement.  If the comic works, you will attract more people who are likely to pay for the game and give you more money for development (maybe double or more than what you paid for the comic).  If it doesn't, then you will not get half what you paid for the comic, and your game will suffer all the more for it.

Originally posted by dsmart

People who are rooting for a train wreck are usually disappointed when their preconcieved disaster doesn't happen. So I know that because Alganon is still around, it burns those who were hoping that it will fail. It boils down to  this: those very same people are forgetting that I ran into the same sort of derision with my first game back in 1996 when it was released prematurely by its then publisher. I'm still here.

As I said in a previous post, I wanted Alganon to fail because I saw it as a horribly made WoW clone, but now I am starting to root for it.  Sadly Smart, every time you post something like this that is obviously an attack on people like me, you make me hate Alganon not for its quality, but because your name is attached to it (please do not take this as a flame).

Originally posted by dsmart

Again, if you don't like the game, don't play it. This is just a game that I want to see succeed and I will continue to do my best to make that happen. If you're sitting around waiting for it to fail (hence shutdown), you have a pretty long wait because considering the low overhead, even if I fired the entire team tomorrow, the game is already 100% finished and self-sustaining. To the point that putting it into maintenance mode just means that it will keep running as long as I can afford to pay for the servers. There are lesser games out there still running; ever wondered why that is?

I do not know how true that statement is, but even if it was 100% true (not that I am saying it isn't), I still have doubts that Alganon can compete with all the existing and upcoming f2p games.  Already the list is quite long, including Perfect World, Forsaken World, Runes of Magic, Second Life, Allods Online, SMT: Imagine, Champions Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, and Lord of the Rings Online.  Add to that the fact that City of Heroes is going to be free soon, as well as the already existing unlimited free trials of Warhammer Online and World of Warcraft, and you might soon find your servers devoid of any players at all.  While I wish you luck on the comic, I fear that it might be too little too late.

 

Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  JimyHumuHumu

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 250

7/02/11 12:29:02 PM#33

 Alganon is not f2p. Lotro is f2p, runes of magic is f2p, blabla. alganon is more of a free trial than f2p. other than that, once population picks up i would love to try it, as 10$ isnt really that much :P but with so many f2p games, most peopel wont even try it, as long as youre bound to spend money on it, im afraid.

 

player/ guild housing sounds nice. actually thats what made me check alganon at the first place (well its forums at least) is housing instanced?

i figured the game is not that popular, which is imo reasonable considering how many 'real' f2p games are out there, restrictive f2p wont cut it anymore. heck, im sure even AoC (not saying its a better game, its just.. bigger game :D) wont have as much success as lotro has with its different approach to f2p.

Im sure every developer wants its game to succed, and also believes its the best thing out there... but lets get real, there are some 500-1000 mmos out there, majority of them is f2p (not trials) and to attract any interest your game has to be, well if not better, it has to be at least different than others.

so how does alganon stand out? other than being self declared wow clone, for which you also have to pay for to advance past some stage, with really low population? Dont get me wrong, i dont expect everything for free, but todays MMO market offers just that, free with options to either purchase cash shop stuff in game from other people (RoM, Allods etc) or earn it by playing (LoTRO). Im not sure but does alganon offer either to f2p players? Beacause for you, as a dev/host doesnt really matter if player A or B buys stuff from your shop, as long as it sells its all good :P 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2766

 
OP  7/03/11 4:41:28 AM#34
Originally posted by JimyHumuHumu

 Alganon is not f2p. Lotro is f2p, runes of magic is f2p, blabla. alganon is more of a free trial than f2p. other than that, once population picks up i would love to try it, as 10$ isnt really that much :P but with so many f2p games, most peopel wont even try it, as long as youre bound to spend money on it, im afraid.

 

player/ guild housing sounds nice. actually thats what made me check alganon at the first place (well its forums at least) is housing instanced?

i figured the game is not that popular, which is imo reasonable considering how many 'real' f2p games are out there, restrictive f2p wont cut it anymore. heck, im sure even AoC (not saying its a better game, its just.. bigger game :D) wont have as much success as lotro has with its different approach to f2p.

Im sure every developer wants its game to succed, and also believes its the best thing out there... but lets get real, there are some 500-1000 mmos out there, majority of them is f2p (not trials) and to attract any interest your game has to be, well if not better, it has to be at least different than others.

so how does alganon stand out? other than being self declared wow clone, for which you also have to pay for to advance past some stage, with really low population? Dont get me wrong, i dont expect everything for free, but todays MMO market offers just that, free with options to either purchase cash shop stuff in game from other people (RoM, Allods etc) or earn it by playing (LoTRO). Im not sure but does alganon offer either to f2p players? Beacause for you, as a dev/host doesnt really matter if player A or B buys stuff from your shop, as long as it sells its all good :P 

 

Lotro isn't really F2P, it's an interesting hybrid with many people still paying subscriptions.  You can apparently grind enough points to unlock everything but it takes a lot of time, which is a commodity whose value varies from person to person.

 

Runes of Magic is P2W.  You can level to max with both specs but if you want to do endgame it's going to cost you.

 

I absolutely agree that Alganon is an extended trial and I don't think it's a good model.  It sounds reasonable, but Alganon doesn't exist inside of a vacuum and it has to compete with the games you named as well as others.  They need to let players reach max level without spending money and get them to spend money after that.  It's what their competition is doing.  Maybe charge a one time fee for the expac, sell new dungeons, vanity items and such.  At this point they need players, then they need to give them enough to keep them playing and willing to pay for new content.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2766

 
OP  7/03/11 4:48:31 AM#35
Originally posted by MadDemon64

Easy: you need to balance spending money on development and advertising.  If you spend a lot of money on advertising but little on development, the end product is junk that everyone knows about and that everyone knows is junk.  If you spend a lot of money on development but little on advertising, you get gold that few people know about.  This comic is, story aside, advertisment for the game, plain and simple.  By putting money into this comic, you are putting less money into development than you would if you just payed for a simple advertisement.  If the comic works, you will attract more people who are likely to pay for the game and give you more money for development (maybe double or more than what you paid for the comic).  If it doesn't, then you will not get half what you paid for the comic, and your game will suffer all the more for it.

 

I have to disagree with you to a point.  Alganon needs bodies playing the game.  They absolutely need to keep advertising somewhere and most likely at a MUCH larger budget.  At this point, continuing to advertise in PC Gamer probably isn't going to get them many people.  I doubt the comic will, but I also don't know where they could advertise and get people interested.

  ArEf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 255

Just say RF. :)

7/03/11 5:41:23 AM#36

I'm genuinely amazed that they're still pumping money into this game. It's like pumping blood into a corpse, you're not going to end up with anything but a lot of wasted blood and a corpse.

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  kakasaki

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/06
Posts: 1261

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"

7/03/11 11:07:19 AM#37
Originally posted by ArEf

I'm genuinely amazed that they're still pumping money into this game. It's like pumping blood into a corpse, you're not going to end up with anything but a lot of wasted blood and a corpse.

But, in the end, their blood and their corpse. They can do as they please. 

A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...

  bbbmmmlll

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/09
Posts: 79

8/04/11 6:14:50 PM#38

I still don't think QoL has figured out who their customers are. A comic distributed at ComicCon strikes me as targeting the wrong demographic. These people have discretionary income and are very social. They're going to be willing to spend money and want to play a game that a lot of other people are playing. Great customers if you can get them, but what's the attraction for them to play Alganon?

What is the number one reason to play Alganon? I've always thought the strengths were a rich backstory and being casual gamer friendly. I wish they would focus on these areas. Become the mmorpg with the deepest story and most casual gamer friendly experience. Build features around the backstory such as RIFT's artifact system and simplify the game play and interface even more. If you're in a highly competitive market, you've got to find something that sets you apart. Something that you're the best at.

Anyhow, good luck.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2766

 
OP  8/06/11 12:17:09 PM#39
Originally posted by bbbmmmlll

I still don't think QoL has figured out who their customers are. A comic distributed at ComicCon strikes me as targeting the wrong demographic. These people have discretionary income and are very social. They're going to be willing to spend money and want to play a game that a lot of other people are playing. Great customers if you can get them, but what's the attraction for them to play Alganon?

What is the number one reason to play Alganon? I've always thought the strengths were a rich backstory and being casual gamer friendly. I wish they would focus on these areas. Become the mmorpg with the deepest story and most casual gamer friendly experience. Build features around the backstory such as RIFT's artifact system and simplify the game play and interface even more. If you're in a highly competitive market, you've got to find something that sets you apart. Something that you're the best at.

Anyhow, good luck.

I think they were trying to target people that hadn't heard of their game but might try it.  Whether it was money well spent I have no idea.

 

There's absolutely no way that a brand new IP can have the deepest backstory when there are games based on existing IPs with much deeper backstories like LOTR, Star Wars, Warhammer and Conan to name a few.

 

I agree that they need something that sets them apart.

  Omali

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1100

8/06/11 12:26:20 PM#40
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by bbbmmmlll

I still don't think QoL has figured out who their customers are. A comic distributed at ComicCon strikes me as targeting the wrong demographic. These people have discretionary income and are very social. They're going to be willing to spend money and want to play a game that a lot of other people are playing. Great customers if you can get them, but what's the attraction for them to play Alganon?

What is the number one reason to play Alganon? I've always thought the strengths were a rich backstory and being casual gamer friendly. I wish they would focus on these areas. Become the mmorpg with the deepest story and most casual gamer friendly experience. Build features around the backstory such as RIFT's artifact system and simplify the game play and interface even more. If you're in a highly competitive market, you've got to find something that sets you apart. Something that you're the best at.

Anyhow, good luck.

I think they were trying to target people that hadn't heard of their game but might try it.  Whether it was money well spent I have no idea.

Precisely. Since the game has as low of a barrier of entry as possible (no client fee + no subscription), the only direction they can go is outward, by advertising the game. The article in PC Gamer was a success (at least as I've been told) and having a comic by DC Comics will probably net a good amount of attention as well.

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