First, there were the hardcore days:   EQ, UO, Anarchy Online

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

And now MMO's have morphed into their final endstate, making gameplay as easy as possible, not only holding the players' hands, but metaphorically changing their diapers too:  FREE REALMS

I say there is no evolution (or is it de-evolution?) beyond Free Realms.  MMO's have reached their pinnacle.

you are going to be so dissapointed when an even easier MMO comes out because the devs recon Free Realms was too hard.

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to. I have no problems with question or exclamation marks as long as they let you think for yourself once you accept the quest. Sadly that's not where the games are headed these days. Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are.

To be honest even though MMOs have become a lot easier when it comes to quests there really isn't much difference in going to allakhazam.com to read about whom to talk to and where to go to get that same information in the game. The evolution of games just made the same information easily obtainable without having to alt+tab out and go read it on a website yourself. Websites even sytarted to offer premium services you had to pay for to get additional information at one point in time, making ingame quest guidence even more of a welcoming feature

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to. I have no problems with question or exclamation marks as long as they let you think for yourself once you accept the quest. Sadly that's not where the games are headed these days

Why does everyone rant that this game is too easy. It is for kids.... Kids around 12 or younger aren't going to be vet MMO players and know what to do, maybe some young enough can't read that well, so the guide shows them where to go...

What I've never understood it why features like this are not configurable. Have ?'s and map markers if you want them, and switch them off if you don't. Wouldn't seem like a hard thing to code.

Originally posted by zachdude

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to. I have no problems with question or exclamation marks as long as they let you think for yourself once you accept the quest. Sadly that's not where the games are headed these days

 

Why does everyone rant that this game is too easy. It is for kids.... Kids around 12 or younger aren't going to be vet MMO players and know what to do, maybe some young enough can't read that well, so the guide shows them where to go...

It's for families not just for kids. Give me a SoE link where they expressly say the game is geared towards kids ONLY. Lots of adults play it with or without kids. SoE aimed at that which is why they have or will have a family account option. As far as i know kids don't have credit cards and i don't know too many parents willing to have a monthly draw on their cards for their kids if they themselvs aren't involved in some way or another

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

Well, it's mainly because it doesn't stop there. Next you have a minimap that also has said marked information and after you accept the quest the quest's destination/object is marked on the map too. I've always envisioned a quest as being given a "clue/hint" about something and then the hero having to decipher the clue to an extent to to know that "the floating mountain that breathes fire" is actually the volcano on the island in the bay just south of there.

I mean, why even have quest dialogue these days as the majority don't read it. they just click through to get the quest location updated to their minimap and follow the arrow on the same until they get there. Kill and run back. Maybe "dumb" isn't the right word to use as it easily offends people that like that, but it certainly does not require the same level/amount of thinking and being super familiar with the world you're in.

Originally posted by Fibsdk 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to.

All of which can easily be turned off in the minimap.  The player map in Free Realms can be configured to show quest paths and indicators, or not at all. Hell, you can turn off everything if you want-- shops, trainers, quest locations, minigame locations, friend locations, group locations, etc... you can decide if there are icons and/or directional paths for each one.

Freerealms is to easy, and you know what, i dont play it, and do you know why? Because it is too easy.

thats the beauty of MMOs, if you dont like one you can play another. the problem these days is, a bunch of morons started believing that with every new MMO launch the goal was to crush WoW, so everytime launch day comes closer you get 40 people posting " Will this game be a WoW killer?"

Freerealms is an MMO designed for casual gamers, im pretty sure it says that somewhere on the website too, if you want a hardcore MMO go play one. Last time i checked UO and EQ are still up and running, and final fantasy is way up there interms of hardcore. 

But more people must enjoy the middle ground between casual and hardcore otherwise WoW wouldnt be so successful.Mundane and tedious doesnt automatically make a game hardcore, which is what oldschool games did the create challenge. Forcing you to camp for hours for a monster spawn, perma death, full looting, stupid stuff like that.

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Fibsdk 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to.

All of which can easily be turned off in the minimap.  The player map in Free Realms can be configured to show quest paths and indicators, or not at all. Hell, you can turn off everything if you want-- shops, trainers, quest locations, minigame locations, friend locations, group locations, etc... you can decide if there are icons and/or directional paths for each one.

You can even put on a blindfold and play without being able to see. You can turn your monitor upside down for added difficulty. If you are right handed you can try and play a lefty for awhile. I'm sure i can name a ton of other things you can do to make things a bit more complicated...i really don't see your point

And yes we can just opt out on playing it if we don't like how a game is. That still doesn't stop people from having an opinion about them..nor should it. That is what a message board is for. That includes discussing negative aspects. This isn't a fan club where only positive discussions are allowed and thank god for that

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to. I have no problems with question or exclamation marks as long as they let you think for yourself once you accept the quest. Sadly that's not where the games are headed these days

Think for yourself? But even without the glowing lights and the holy pathways of divine guidance no actual "thinking" is required in any of these games. As Ilvaldyr above pointed out these "guiding lights" simply help to alleviate the boring timesink in these games. Remove them and you simply have players running around like headless chickens looking for an npc or silly quest object to click on. Thats not intellectually challenging or interesting.......its just a test of your patience and a boring waste of time. On top of that you end up seeing the same retarded questions from players filling the chat channels over and over again......like in Spellborn where in Hawksmouth you see "Where is Gravis? Where is the best place to find Young Wolves? Where do I find the wandering salesman?" scroll past every couple of minutes.

All of this simply highlights the stupidity of scripted quests in mmos. They work fine in single player games but in mmos they are just daft. Maybe games developers should start looking at other ways of designing mmos......perhaps....hmmm.....oh I dont know......having all of those players interact with each other maybe rather than npcs perhaps? Or maybe thats too far fetched for an online game shared by thousands of human beings.

It's for kids.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Fibsdk 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to.

All of which can easily be turned off in the minimap.  The player map in Free Realms can be configured to show quest paths and indicators, or not at all. Hell, you can turn off everything if you want-- shops, trainers, quest locations, minigame locations, friend locations, group locations, etc... you can decide if there are icons and/or directional paths for each one.

 

You can even put on a blindfold and play without being able to see. You can turn your monitor upside down for added difficulty. If you are right handed you can try and play a lefty for awhile. I'm sure i can name a ton of other things you can do to make things a bit more complicated...i really don't see your point

The point is that the mini map and indicators can  be set to whatever the player wants them to be. If you don't want to know where anything is or how to get to your quests, turn it all off on the mini map. A few clicks is all it takes.

Originally posted by Fibsdk

And yes we can just opt out on playing it if we don't like how a game is. That still doesn't stop people from having an opinion about them..nor should it. That is what a message board is for. That includes discussing negative aspects. This isn't a fan club where only positive discussions are allowed and thank god for that

I never suggested that negative comments were a bad thing. People can say whatever they like about whatever game they choose to talk about. Free Realms is no exception. I was merely pointing out that the map in Free Realms can be configured to show whatever the player wants to show.

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by pencilrick  

Then a 2nd generation of MMO came out and was somewhat more user friendly:  DAOC, Shadowbane, SWG.

The famous 3rd generation held players by the hand with tutorials and quest NPC's:  WOW, EQ2

I don't really get the whole "quest snobbery" thing.

From what I remember from my SWG years, questing there was a case of:

Run to Quest Terminal.
Get quest to kill a hive of <insert mob name here>
Run to hive.
Kill mobs, kill hive.
Run back to Quest Terminal and repeat.

You can't really get much more simple than that when compared to some of the quests in newer games, and I find baffling the argument that modern MMOs are "dumbed down" due to the big floating:

! and ? symbols over quest givers/returners heads.

Wandering around clicking every NPC to try and find quests is neither fun nor challenging .. it's just a timesink.

 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to. I have no problems with question or exclamation marks as long as they let you think for yourself once you accept the quest. Sadly that's not where the games are headed these days

 

Think for yourself? But even without the glowing lights and the holy pathways of divine guidance no actual "thinking" is required in any of these games. As Ilvaldyr above pointed out these "guiding lights" simply help to alleviate the boring timesink in these games. Remove them and you simply have players running around like headless chickens looking for an npc or silly quest object to click on. Thats not intellectually challenging or interesting.......its just a test of your patience and a boring waste of time. On top of that you end up seeing the same retarded questions from players filling the chat channels over and over again......like in Spellborn where in Hawksmouth you see "Where is Gravis? Where is the best place to find Young Wolves? Where do I find the wandering salesman?" scroll past every couple of minutes.

All of this simply highlights the stupidity of scripted quests in mmos. They work fine in single player games but in mmos they are just daft. Maybe games developers should start looking at other ways of designing mmos......perhaps....hmmm.....oh I dont know......having all of those players interact with each other maybe rather than npcs perhaps? Or maybe thats too far fetched for an online game shared by thousands of human beings.

I don't disagree. A quest that sends you out to collect sea shells just by clicking on glowy things on the beach is not very challenging. The type of thinking for yourself that i am talking about is where you are giving hints as to what to do next and not given the solution in the quest log.

Have you ever played a quest based game that lets you think for yourself?. Or do you prefer not to think for yourself because thinking is a timesink in itself. I think that's the real question here. Not aimed at you directly but It seems to me people prefer not to think too hard if you look at where the genre is headed. The problem is ithat no matter what..you will always have guides either in the game or on websites telling you exactly what to do next. So i don't know if there will ever be a solution to wanting more of a challenge except what you can create yourself

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Fibsdk

And yes we can just opt out on playing it if we don't like how a game is. That still doesn't stop people from having an opinion about them..nor should it. That is what a message board is for. That includes discussing negative aspects. This isn't a fan club where only positive discussions are allowed and thank god for that

 

I never suggested that negative comments were a bad thing. People can say whatever they like about whatever game they choose to talk about. Free Realms is no exception. I was merely pointing out that the map in Free Realms can be configured to show whatever the player wants to show.

That part wasn't aimed at you

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by Lidane

Originally posted by Fibsdk 

Free Realms take it one step further and gives you a green line to follow to your destination. Then a big brite light fron the sky to light over the npc you are suppose to talk to.

All of which can easily be turned off in the minimap.  The player map in Free Realms can be configured to show quest paths and indicators, or not at all. Hell, you can turn off everything if you want-- shops, trainers, quest locations, minigame locations, friend locations, group locations, etc... you can decide if there are icons and/or directional paths for each one.

 

You can even put on a blindfold and play without being able to see. You can turn your monitor upside down for added difficulty. If you are right handed you can try and play a lefty for awhile. I'm sure i can name a ton of other things you can do to make things a bit more complicated...i really don't see your point

 

And yes we can just opt out on playing it if we don't like how a game is. That still doesn't stop people from having an opinion about them..nor should it. That is what a message board is for. That includes discussing negative aspects. This isn't a fan club where only positive discussions are allowed and thank god for that

I totally agree with that. Any person that goes into a game and turns off most of its features simply to make it harder for themselves may as well just face up to the fact that they should be playing a better game which is more challenging and interesting. Handicapping yourself on purpose? WTF?!

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

It's for kids.

I have to 100% agree with you there. If teenagers and 20+ yr olds are playing this, then what the hell do you expect to get from it?

Originally posted by Manestream

Originally posted by John.A.Zoid

It's for kids.

 

I have to 100% agree with you there. If teenagers and 20+ yr olds are playing this, then what the hell do you expect to get from it?

I expect to get A/S/L

Where does it say it's for kids? What gives the hint it's for kids?. Is it the virtual pets? Or the Pixies?. It's the ninjas isn't it.

Is it because you come from a superhardcorewftbbq rading guild that kicks ass and take names and this is nothing like that game. I wonder.

This is as cutesy as the sims series are and just as much for kids. You could argue that all of the sims games are kiddy games but thats an opinion not a fact.