With that being, said, I see on these forums that EvE is commonly touted as the most popular Sandbox MMO. That is not true.

I just want to clear some things up here. I know the term "Sandbox" is a very loose term that doesnt have a specific definition. But, when talking about sandbox games, they usually contain some of the following elements that make it a Sandbox.

Sandbox elements:

- Classless, or contains many different classes (usually more than 6 or 7)

- Player housing

- Some form of Death penalty

- Unrestricted forms of PvP

- Crafting

- City Building

- Quests tend to be longer and more complicated with bigger rewards

- Gameplay includes some measure of player skill

- Gameplay focused on a combination of activities

With that being said - EvE is not the largest sandbox MMO.

Its RUNESCAPE.

Runescape is one of the most successful MMO's of all time. It has around 10 million active accounts  and has been mentioned in the Guinness World Records as the most popular free MMORPG.

So, this is for all the naysayers who say that a "A Sandbox cannot gather as many subs as a Themepark can" Out of all the F2P themepark, uninspired  WoW clones out there, you have Runescape consistently ranked the highest out of all of them. In fact, you have a Non-AAA sandbox MMO consistently outranking AAA themeparks. Is WAR doing as well? AoC? Andrew Gower produced Runescape in his basement. It literally ran out of his house in Nottingham! Hows that for a business model for you? It only took a small fraction of the cost to make Runescape as it did those fail titles.

And dont go telling me Runescape isnt a sandbox. You arent restricted to quest grinding. A classless system (40+ skills to train?), epic quests, and unrestricted forms of PvP. PvP involves some measure of skill. You have freakin wilderness with full loot. Full loot. You will never see that in candyland WoW.

This whole argument of "Sandbox has never been successful and never will be" has got to stop, because it isnt true. Runecape and EvE proved differently, and UO, AC, EQ and the other classics were released in the 56k era when internet wasnt in every home, so 200k subs at that point in time was pretty respectable.

I think Eve is not a sandbox at all.  especially after  2 last patches.  lots of limitations make this game turning into space kind of wow clone.

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Originally posted by jarby

I think Eve is not a sandbox at all.  especially after  2 last patches.  lots of limitations make this game turning into space kind of wow clone.

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Eve is indeed a sandbox. It's nothing like wow. At all.

To the op, I could never get into runescape. I tried to several times, but it never took. Perhaps I'll give it another go.

playing eve for about 4 years. prove me that im wrong

Originally posted by jarby

playing eve for about 4 years. prove me that im wrong

Im fine with just laughing at you

Sorry but.. What you say is a sandbox is not a sandbox... You explained some stuff you think Runescape does then say that is what a sandbox is. Very little of that has anything to do with the genuine sandbox game genre. The core of Sandbox is: "You are spawned on a location. Now what do you do?" As soon as someone tell you what to do,  be it quest, or map markers, you start to leave sandbox and enter theme park. Then.. try to get Runescape to look like a better game than EVE, or even compare the two... then you are just silly.

The only difference from wow is open pvp. Pve is mostly the same. missions = stupid quests. complexes pretend to be sorts of raids, endless grind even more than in wow, hmm what else i  forget

guess you played eve for a month or a year max, and think that is a sandbox ahaha lol. may be not played at all

Originally posted by jarby

playing eve for about 4 years. prove me that im wrong

You made an assertion, not an argument. What, exactly, about the last 2 expansions removed EVE's "sandboxy" nature?. Incursions added some better PvE, but I dont recall any restrictions. Incarna was a dreadful disappointment to be sure, but again nothing that makes EVE a sandbox was removed. Spaceships EVE has stayed almost exactly the same as it was since the Dominion expansion, and even that hardly changed things from Apocrypha. The only thing I can think of that's changed in space since Summer 2009 is that now you have to do two warps and a gate jump between jump bridges rather than just one warp. Since EVE was pretty sandboxy before jump bridges were even introduced, a minor change in mechanics like that doesn't stop EVE being a sandbox, it just makes using jump bridges a little les safe and convenient.

I've been playing EVE for 5 years. Prove me that I'm wrong.

just tell me what i missed. after they make upgrades in 0/0 the pve became even more limited

all pve  now is like  just cleaning anomales and making 10-s.  how cool

) whatever. go on, think eve is a sandbox. ccp will be pleased, may be even give you a monocle. as for people who never played eve i can say go, and see your own eyes.

A sandbox focuses on community and economy, a themepark focuses on content.  Sounds like Runescape is a sandbox, Eve clealy is as well. Wow obviously is not. What Eve does have going for it over Runescape and others is that everyone plays on 1 server - arguable it is in fact the biggest sandbox then :)   Comments above refer to various bits of game functionality to argue it is/is not not a sandbox - this has nothing to do with it.

To the OP:

I am afraid you have missed the point. All the features you mention, while usually found in sandbox games, are not what define a sandbox. A sandbox game is about freedom of choice and consequences. In an actual sandbox game you can be and do whatever you fancy: you could choose not to fight once and still be an important member of the community. You can be a thief, a trader, an explorer, a musician, a soldier, a crafter and whatnot. You can choose any faction, learn any set of skills, build your house wherever you like. And you have to deal with the consequences of your decisions.

Having more or less complex quests, having or not having raids, having or not having crafting, you can find such elements both in themeparks and sandboxes, and they are not what a sandbox game is about.

EVE allows for far more freedom than 'jarby' is giving it credit.  He sees broad features like PvE, which includes quite a bit of content, and assumes that makes it a themepark.  What he fails to realize, is that you are only limited by your imagination.  It is skill-based, and the only professions in the game are whatever role you decide to fill.  There are no pre-determined roles in the game; only roles that the players have created, and the devs expanded upon once they saw a demand for certain types of emergent gameplay.

From the player-driven economy (the only -real- economy in virtually any MMO around.. with exception of perhaps Entropia.. but that game itself is simply no fun.  And yes, EVE's economy has its issues, but it is still fifty times what any other game has even attempted to acheive), to player-driven CONTENT, EVE is every bit a sandbox.  In no other game do the developers give THAT MUCH control to the players.  If it's not an exploit, it's legal.  You are allowed to do literally anything, as long as it doesn't break a mechanic.  And once discovered, exploits in broken mechanics are fixed, as has been proven with several rather massive exploits in the game's history.

In no other game will you ever read stories such as the Guiding Hand Social Club, or the massive bank scam that happened, and have it be considered player-driven content.  There simply exists a level of freedom that no themepark can offer.

PvE is a means to an end, and is not 'end-game' like in so many popular themeparks.  

There is no end-game.. there is only the game.  The universe.

Basically, if jarby feels that EVE is not a sandbox, then 'sandbox' must simply be a made up term for a game type that doesn't exist.  Because if EVE isn't a sandbox, NO game can claim to be a sandbox.

But since there IS a rather broad type of MMO that has certain features which certain other games simply do not have, a name must exist to describe it.  That name is sandbox.

Originally posted by Sheista

EVE allows for far more freedom than 'jarby' is giving it credit.  He sees broad features like PvE, which includes quite a bit of content, and assumes that makes it a themepark.  What he fails to realize, is that you are only limited by your imagination.  It is skill-based, and the only professions in the game are whatever role you decide to fill.  There are no pre-determined roles in the game; only roles that the players have created, and the devs expanded upon once they saw a demand for certain types of emergent gameplay.

From the player-driven economy (the only -real- economy in virtually any MMO around.. with exception of perhaps Entropia.. but that game itself is simply no fun.  And yes, EVE's economy has its issues, but it is still fifty times what any other game has even attempted to acheive), to player-driven CONTENT, EVE is every bit a sandbox.  In no other game do the developers give THAT MUCH control to the players.  If it's not an exploit, it's legal.  You are allowed to do literally anything, as long as it doesn't break a mechanic.  And once discovered, exploits in broken mechanics are fixed, as has been proven with several rather massive exploits in the game's history.

In no other game will you ever read stories such as the Guiding Hand Social Club, or the massive bank scam that happened, and have it be considered player-driven content.  There simply exists a level of freedom that no themepark can offer.

PvE is a means to an end, and is not 'end-game' like in so many popular themeparks.  

 

There is no end-game.. there is only the game.  The universe.

 Agree.  To understand a sandbox you have to embrace the ideology, not grasp the mechanics.  Themepark players often confuse rich features for freedom.

Runescape sucks. Plus when refering to 1 million players you do know the age bracket for Runescape is like 5-16 right? You wanna play with kids, be my guest.

Originally posted by Erstok

Runescape sucks. Plus when refering to 1 million players you do know the age bracket for Runescape is like 5-16 right? You wanna play with kids, be my guest.

 Guess Runescape provides buckets and spades :P