From Jagex:

We’ve spotted that a few of our players are questioning why we removed one of our free quests. The reasons are simple, and there are only two, so I felt it would be useful to list them here. I’ve also tried to answer the questions on the forums about the change.

1. Romeo & Juliet doesn’t reflect the quality of content we produce now.

A new player may say "This is boring. I quit."

The quest was mostly played by brand new F2P accounts due to its location and level prerequisites. A new player has no idea if it’s old or new content and would judge the whole of RuneScape on the content they are playing. This content is simply below the gameplay quality we expect now, and lacks the creativity we would see in new content.

Yes, other quests are also old and low quality; I do not claim that this is the only quest that will be changed. When we looked at the quest completion rates of new accounts, this was quest quite commonly started but not finished. We suspect that’s because it just wasn’t fun enough.

2. Romeo & Juliet was a copy rather than a parody.

A new player may easily say "WTH? Isn’t this just a bad copy of that book thing? FAIL!" and quit.

We often allow real-world influences to shape the content we make. Large areas of the game are often based on things that happen in the real world, especially past histories and media - the Fremennik/Viking similarities, for example, or the Picard-like character from Enlightened Journey. We make them part of the game and we know that people enjoy seeing the RuneScape twist we put on things. Naturally, not all content is parody, but there is definitely a place for it in the game. Romeo & Juliet, however, just wasn’t "RuneScape-y" enough, and at such an early point in the game, new players are unlikely to recognise exactly what "RuneScape-y" is. As such, it was a bad idea to have this content so early on in a player’s career.

Your questions

Why remove it? What harm was it doing?

See above. We believed it was damaging the game and was encouraging new players to leave.

Why not just rewrite it?

See above. The idea of a parody quest so early on in a player’s career may make them think RuneScape is something that it isn’t.

Also, rewriting the quest would have further compromised the designer’s creativity. If we wanted a quest about romance and mystery on the edge of Varrock, we can write a far better one if it’s got nothing to do with Shakespeare.

I love Romeo/Juliet, we were going to get married, they were my favourite NPCs, etc.

Sorry about that. I have no excuses, but we just didn’t think they were appropriate anymore. We have had similar feedback on "Why did you change that picture on the wall in teh pub it was my fave picture OMG". "Bring back wildy ditch it was my mum" or, indeed, "That female banker in the GE was HAWT why delete!! OMG!!"

Some players bond to things we don’t expect and the game is always changing. We make these changes to make the future of the game more secure, not to unnecessarily annoy you. Perhaps other aspects of the game will emerge as a new favourite. Gudrun, for example, is proving a new favourite for Mod Liono’s - I just heard him sing a song about her.

New players to the game won’t have the same experience we did.

That’s the case with every single update. We’ve changed almost every aspect of the game with updates, and this is no different. I often talk about Prayer training in the original RuneScape, with no Ectofuntus or prayer bones. Most players didn’t play Classic and have no idea of the 'experience' was back then. I don’t think we have to provide the experience for people to, erm, experience. :) Actually, thinking about it, you can still experience both no-Ecto Prayer training AND Romeo & Juliet if you visit Classic!

Finally, on a personal note, I miss the old icon for the Ignore list at the bottom of the screen. I loved that little red guy, and his abject anger used to make me laugh whenever I logged in. He’s gone now and I miss him, but I know the interface is of a higher quality and more professional than it was before, so I know he was lost in the path of progress. He was an unfortunate casualty of change. It’s sad, but just part of the game being a better place to be for all.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A simple quest like Romeo and Juliet, causing players to leave?  LOLOLOOLOLOLLLLOOOOLL...

The truth has been spoken, folks.

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

Originally posted by Bermann

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

 To be technical, they actually can remove anything they want.

The question is how good of an idea is it. If they do in fact have metrics that show the majority of players never complete the quest then something should be done. I think most companies would go the route of redesigning the quest to make it more interesting to complete rather then remove it.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Bermann

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

 To be technical, they actually can remove anything they want.

 

The question is how good of an idea is it. If they do in fact have metrics that show the majority of players never complete the quest then something should be done. I think most companies would go the route of redesigning the quest to make it more interesting to complete rather then remove it.

There are no such metrics. They deleted the quest because according to them, it lacked the flavour, because it was cliche, and because according to their mentality, new players take these things into account, when in fact, new players play to get the skillcapes.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Bermann

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

 To be technical, they actually can remove anything they want.

 

The question is how good of an idea is it. If they do in fact have metrics that show the majority of players never complete the quest then something should be done. I think most companies would go the route of redesigning the quest to make it more interesting to complete rather then remove it.

Nope. Please read the article again.

Originally posted by Bermann

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

[To the theme of In The End - Linkin Park]

(It starts with)
One nerf, I don’t know why
It doesn’t even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind, I designed this rhyme
To explain in due time

All I know
Vine-bridge is a valuable spell
Watch it trap people as the battle begins
Watch it grow more of the player-made terf
Then Jagex brings a nerf
It’s so UN-FAIR

Shining powers makes you able to fly?
Watchin' overlight users fall out of the sky
Trying to stay up, but didnt even know
I Wasted my spell just to
Fall below

I kept flame harpy beside me, and even though I tried, napalm bolt was nerfed.
What it used to be will essentially show what Jagex thinks of me
Is this what I DESERVE?!
I rant and say;
Listen, Jagex!
It doesn't even matter
I play rated games
For fun, not rate!
'Cause, in the end
It doesn't even matter!

Death bomb, I don’t see how
Its damage doesn't count as death damage now?
Keep that in mind, I adored this attack
'Till Jagex came along
And claimed it was H4X!

In spite of the way you were shocking me
Stuffing rods, vine-bridging or light seed
Remembering all the head-clocks you used on me
I’m surprised it got so (far)

Spells aren’t the way they were before!
You wouldn’t even use chain lightning anymore!
Not that it was balanced back then
But it all comes back to nerfs
In the end

I kept flame harpy beside me, even though I tried, napalm bolt was nerfed
What it used to be will essentially show what Jagex thinks of me
Is this what I DESERVE?!
I rant and say;
Listen, Jagex!
It doesn't even matter
I play rated games
For fun, not rate!
'Cause, in the end
It doesn't even matter!

I've put my trust in you
Pushed as far as I can go
For all this
There’s only one thing you should know
I've put my trust in you
Tried my best not to complain
For all this
There’s only one thing you should explain

Is this what I DESERVE?!
I rant and say;
Listen, Jagex!
It doesn’t even matter
I play rated games
For fun, not rate!
'Cause, in the end
RATING DOESN'T MATTER!
 

I see nothing wrong with this. They had facts that the quest wasn't being done by players all too much. It didn't fit in with the lore of RS, so they took it out and put in a quest that had the same basic story but with a RS spin. I don't see why anyone's complaining.

Originally posted by AlysenMinase

I see nothing wrong with this. They had facts that the quest wasn't being done by players all too much. It didn't fit in with the lore of RS, so they took it out and put in a quest that had the same basic story but with a RS spin. I don't see why anyone's complaining.

People like to complain and whinge for little reason.

Originally posted by AlysenMinase

I see nothing wrong with this. They had facts that the quest wasn't being done by players all too much. It didn't fit in with the lore of RS, so they took it out and put in a quest that had the same basic story but with a RS spin. I don't see why anyone's complaining.

Another deluded RS fanboy.

"They had facts that the quest wasn't being done by players all too much."

What facts? Goddamnit, tell me. This quest doesn't take up 100000MB of space, it doesn't contain 100000 pages of lines, nor does it have a level 1999999999 requirement. How the hell does it prove that it wasn't done by the players to an extent? All F2P players do this quest. F2P Players are the majority of the player base. Explain that.

"It didn't fit in with the lore of RS"

Another LOL here. How the heck do you define RS lore? Give me some examples. By merely saying that it is "Rs Lore" because a bunch of goddamn dwarves were added--for the sake of sanity, dwarves, barbarians and all that crap do not define RS lore.

"so they took it out and put in a quest that had the same basic story but with a RS spin."

Tell me in all your deluded wisdom, why REMOVE a simple sentimental quest like this just for a pair of boots and another crappy quest that shouts "tolkien lore"?!

Originally posted by AkaJetson

Originally posted by AlysenMinase

I see nothing wrong with this. They had facts that the quest wasn't being done by players all too much. It didn't fit in with the lore of RS, so they took it out and put in a quest that had the same basic story but with a RS spin. I don't see why anyone's complaining.

People like to complain and whinge for little reason.

So you're saying that you have to be a numbnuts to enjoy playing Runescape?

Originally posted by AlysenMinase

I see nothing wrong with this. They had facts that the quest wasn't being done by players all too much. It didn't fit in with the lore of RS, so they took it out and put in a quest that had the same basic story but with a RS spin. I don't see why anyone's complaining.

That said, you are a "new" Runescape player with little knowledge about the history of the game. There is no blasted creativity in a pair of boots, granted the quest is as good as one of those procured for members. The quest they PUT IN is as blasted as the rest of the lower end crap quests like "cook's assistant". You see, there is no point in removing a quest that is enjoyed by the F2P lot. F2P players compose of the majority of the player base. Once they finish all 37 quests, there is the option of being a member, or migrating to a much better mmo game like Lord of the Rings Online or Everquest II.

You don't see why anyone's complaining because YOU haven't played the game to an extent the RS community here at mmorpg.com have. You also don't see the real motive behind this act, because obviously, you are too brainwashed to read the article and see that this update was procured with the thought of dumbing down the F2P content, holistically, for the short spanned attention of a "new" Runescape player.

Originally posted by Blissey

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Bermann

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

 To be technical, they actually can remove anything they want.

 

The question is how good of an idea is it. If they do in fact have metrics that show the majority of players never complete the quest then something should be done. I think most companies would go the route of redesigning the quest to make it more interesting to complete rather then remove it.

Nope. Please read the article again.

 Since you can't possibly be arguing my point abot how they can remove anything they want since it is their game I must assume your response is to having metrics showing the majority of players do not complete the quest then they need to do something.

"When we looked at the quest completion rates of new accounts, this was quest quite commonly started but not finished. We suspect that’s because it just wasn’t fun enough."

So it can't possibly be that section since that is a quote from your OP. That leaves the opinion that most other companies would likely redesigning the quest instead of deleting it, which has nothing to do with your post (you did not make an article btw).

So how about you reread my post instead of me reread yours???

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Blissey

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Bermann

And now Jagex thinks they can remove quests? My favorite parts of this game were the quests. I was very upset when they made Sheep Shearer and Witch's Potion some lame "miniquest." And now they think they can completely REMOVE Romeo and Juliet?

 To be technical, they actually can remove anything they want.

 

The question is how good of an idea is it. If they do in fact have metrics that show the majority of players never complete the quest then something should be done. I think most companies would go the route of redesigning the quest to make it more interesting to complete rather then remove it.

Nope. Please read the article again.

 Since you can't possibly be arguing my point abot how they can remove anything they want since it is their game I must assume your response is to having metrics showing the majority of players do not complete the quest then they need to do something.

"When we looked at the quest completion rates of new accounts, this was quest quite commonly started but not finished. We suspect that’s because it just wasn’t fun enough."

 

So it can't possibly be that section since that is a quote from your OP.

 

That leaves the opinion that most other companies would likely redesigning the quest instead of deleting it, which has nothing to do with your post (you did not make an article btw).

 

So how about you reread my post instead of me reread yours???

"Since you can't possibly be arguing my point abot"

What is your point? That they base these actions on false pretentions, that these metrics DO EXIST and instead of nerfing the game for a bunch of NEW players, they do this because no one completes the quest? 

Have you even played Runescape? 

"I must assume your response is to having metrics showing the majority of players do not complete the quest then they need to do something."

When who looked? You obviously have not played Runescape to the extent we have, because you WOULD know that this quest is negligible when it comes to size, and effort. Ever heard of sentimental reasons? This quest is a historical quest, and being deleted in lieu for another claimed "Rs lore" bullcrap is null and void.

"So it can't possibly be that section since that is a quote from your OP."

What OP? Can't possibly be what? What the hell are you saying? That is included in Mod MMG's statement. Knowing Mod MMG, and having played the game to an extent FAR GREATER than yours, you are obviously in question for taking these shenanigans to heart.

"That leaves the opinion that most other companies would likely redesigning the quest instead of deleting it"

Where does it say that they redesigned the quest. For GOODNESS SAKE, the did NOT redesign it, they deleted it. GO PLAY THE GAME AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. There is not a TRACE of this quest involved in "Gunnar's ground". Just do it, and don't reply until you have done so.

"which has nothing to do with your post (you did not make an article btw)."

Where in the name of Jagex did I claim to have made an article? My post was well grounded in the experience I had trying out the quest, and doing a side by side comparison with the previous one. It all comes down to one question:

-Why delete a quest for a new one? Is that to humiliate the f2p player base? 

"So how about you reread my post instead of me reread yours???"

Trust me, kiddo, if you think you have not seen the horrors of fighting against a united front, you have not seen what horrors ignorant of today face, against the overwhelmingly increasing sentiment within the ranks of well educated people.

Runescape is a dying game in my opinion.  I have been playing it since it came out, startin with runescape classic.  To be honest, most of the people who play are either pures, or tanks, or hybrids or just maxed.  It takes no skill to play anymore, therefore defeating the purpose of playing.

P.S.  Romeo and Juliet Quest was lame and stupid anyway....

You all are crying up a storm over a quest being remodeled.

Grow up.  Then again, I guess you are still playing Runescape, so that may not be possible.

" If it ain't broke, don't fix it! "

Originally posted by TDLTowelie

You all are crying up a storm over a quest being remodeled.

 

Grow up.  Then again, I guess you are still playing Runescape, so that may not be possible.

Yet there are a bunch of grown people playing facebook games and other games like Hello Kitty online (alot of its userbase are successful career women and men for some reason, I'm talking about suit and tie business people btw). Are these the type of people you call a child? Are they grown?

I haven't played Runescape in years, but even I can see the bigger picture, which is that they are not only deleting a quest, but nerfing the ftp content in hopes of not just gaining new players, but members. Whats next? They already haven't added in REAL quests to the ftp list in years. Most likely the ftp quests are going to continue to be deleted until there's almost no content, forcing people to just buy a membership instead of jumping directly into ftp or dicking around in ftp. Is this Runescape's first major step toward become a fully p2p game? Who knows. Seems to me they've been working on that since membership launched.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the article says that the NEW players don't carry-out the quest. It doesn't say anything about the majority of players which complete that quest and then some. Common sense tells us that if the new players played any longer they would eventually complete that same quest. I doubt ONE quest turns people away, especially since Runescape was built on its F2P userbase. Even before they added membership Runescape was clocking in with atleast 200k players online at all times and atleast 600k logging in daily.

This is why people that have played the game longer are all over this because we actually know the game's history and looking at the history of Runescape, it's success, deleting an old quest is totally pointless.

Originally posted by Bonemane

Originally posted by TDLTowelie

You all are crying up a storm over a quest being remodeled.

 

Grow up.  Then again, I guess you are still playing Runescape, so that may not be possible.

Yet there are a bunch of grown people playing facebook games and other games like Hello Kitty online (alot of its userbase are successful career women and men for some reason, I'm talking about suit and tie business people btw). Are these the type of people you call a child? Are they grown?

I haven't played Runescape in years, but even I can see the bigger picture, which is that they are not only deleting a quest, but nerfing the ftp content in hopes of not just gaining new players, but members. Whats next? They already haven't added in REAL quests to the ftp list in years. Most likely the ftp quests are going to continue to be deleted until there's almost no content, forcing people to just buy a membership instead of jumping directly into ftp or dicking around in ftp. Is this Runescape's first major step toward become a fully p2p game? Who knows. Seems to me they've been working on that since membership launched.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the article says that the NEW players don't carry-out the quest. It doesn't say anything about the majority of players which complete that quest and then some. Common sense tells us that if the new players played any longer they would eventually complete that same quest. I doubt ONE quest turns people away, especially since Runescape was built on its F2P userbase. Even before they added membership Runescape was clocking in with atleast 200k players online at all times and atleast 600k logging in daily.

This is why people that have played the game longer are all over this because we actually know the game's history and looking at the history of Runescape, it's success, deleting an old quest is totally pointless.

So you're trying to say they're currently trying to make F2P worse to get people to become members? Well let's see..In the last year 2 new F2P quests have been created and they've also got a brand new skill. That's more than they added to F2P in the last 5 years. You also missed the bit where they said they're going to REPLACE the Romeo and Juliet quest with a better one. So yeah, I don't get what removing this quest has got to do with gaining more members..

Originally posted by AkaJetson

Originally posted by Bonemane

Originally posted by TDLTowelie

You all are crying up a storm over a quest being remodeled.

 

Grow up.  Then again, I guess you are still playing Runescape, so that may not be possible.

Yet there are a bunch of grown people playing facebook games and other games like Hello Kitty online (alot of its userbase are successful career women and men for some reason, I'm talking about suit and tie business people btw). Are these the type of people you call a child? Are they grown?

I haven't played Runescape in years, but even I can see the bigger picture, which is that they are not only deleting a quest, but nerfing the ftp content in hopes of not just gaining new players, but members. Whats next? They already haven't added in REAL quests to the ftp list in years. Most likely the ftp quests are going to continue to be deleted until there's almost no content, forcing people to just buy a membership instead of jumping directly into ftp or dicking around in ftp. Is this Runescape's first major step toward become a fully p2p game? Who knows. Seems to me they've been working on that since membership launched.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the article says that the NEW players don't carry-out the quest. It doesn't say anything about the majority of players which complete that quest and then some. Common sense tells us that if the new players played any longer they would eventually complete that same quest. I doubt ONE quest turns people away, especially since Runescape was built on its F2P userbase. Even before they added membership Runescape was clocking in with atleast 200k players online at all times and atleast 600k logging in daily.

This is why people that have played the game longer are all over this because we actually know the game's history and looking at the history of Runescape, it's success, deleting an old quest is totally pointless.

So you're trying to say they're currently trying to make F2P worse to get people to become members? Well let's see..In the last year 2 new F2P quests have been created and they've also got a brand new skill. That's more than they added to F2P in the last 5 years. You also missed the bit where they said they're going to REPLACE the Romeo and Juliet quest with a better one. So yeah, I don't get what removing this quest has got to do with gaining more members..

Considering the sentimental value of Romeo and Juliet quest... Why replace? Why not just add? Isn't it common sense? There more you have, the more variety, the stronger the competition against other MMORPGs. Simple logic. If they wanted more members, they'd have to think of a more novel way. Gunnar's ground is not an impressive nor rewarding quest.

Besides, most of the MMO quests are always cliche. I've never heard a fanboy of another mmo game critisize RS quests. Since Jagex procures most of their updates by mere speculation of WoW vs RS arguments... it's kinda appalling what they would do just to turn Runescape into Wowscape.