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Star Wars: The Old Republic News - Evidence of Microtransactions in ToS?
Posted by Michael Bitton on Oct 01, 2009 | 145 comments in our forums
Some of the gumshoes in the Star Wars: The Old Republic community have dug up some interesting language in the Terms of Service agreement included with the application of the recently announced Game Testing program. The language present in the agreement may allude to the existence of an in-game shop aka microtransactions in The Old Republic.
Sections H-K of the Game Testing Terms & Conditions are the particularly curious sections of the agreement, making mention of "points" and a "Game store".
A screen cap of the aforementioned section of the agreement can be viewed below:
)
Section H states that "all points acquired during the Game program are non-refundable and have no monetary value".
In Section K, you'll find the agreement pretty explicitly mentions a "Game store".
Of course, BioWare has not officially announced anything along these lines, so while this evidence is certainly convincing it is by no means a direct confirmation that The Old Republic will indeed make use of microtransactions.
Via DarthHater.
Handled responsibly would you be willing to play Star Wars: The Old Republic with the inclusion of microtransactions, either as the sole method of payment or as a supplement/alternative to a paid subscription option? Let us know in the comments below!
Shit.
If this game was F2P with microtransactions, and $40 to get the game, that would be awesome
I went to the dentist the other day. They cleaned my teeth and then offered a variety of extra services. I think if the extra services aren't part of the core game (ie, removing details and then selling then to you later) then I'm all for it.
Call me old school, but microtransactions of any sort are a deal breaker for me.
And it has nothing to do with money.
MT can be in the game or points awarded for purchasing other items in game and it will not bother me.
I WOULD NOT prefer for MT to be the only opttion for game play....
Kind of like how SoE is doing it? I agree that it is a great idea but SoE has been flamed a critsized for doing this.
if the points are used for fluff stuff like pets or hair color or whatever stupide shit, i could care less.
They make it for items that augment in-game skills and change the experience i'm gonna be pissed
It's too bad people will read the first post, and ignore everything else. They will close their eyes, cover their ears, and start screaming they hate MTs without any further knowledge of what TOR is doing.
I'll be playing the game unless the MTs are "Buy this armor, buy this weapon, buy this +10 skill points". But I trust Bioware.
i dont care what the hell they do. thats why i have a job and i can afford to pay for the game and the monthly subscription. i am wasting my time in other mmos waiting for this beast to come out.
Oh, I stole your post and put it on the TOR forums.
No one knows what these points are they speak of, could mean anything. Either way I could care less. RMT didn't bother me in GW, it won't bother me in GW2 or TOR. I don't care If they charge less or nothing at all per month, the only thing that maters is is it fun to play? At least you only spent money on a box to find out you hate it after 3 months xD
Kind of like how SoE is doing it? I agree that it is a great idea but SoE has been flamed a critsized for doing this.
Yea and I think if they do it that way it will be great. Either following the SoE trend of extra fluff stuff being what is available in the game store, or following the GW model for it as well. Either of those MT based systems I think would work fine with in the TOR system. However, if they follow a more Asian market strategy, where you have to have the MT stuff to be able to play, then I think that is bad. 'Yes you can be a Jedi, but to get a lightsaber you have to pay $20, no get a starship you have to pay $40, etc' I think that is a bad system.
I don't mind the MTs as long as I am not forced to invest in them in order to play.
Rut roh.
I think more companies are willing to try different business models out now. If they do it like DDO's new set up (paying for convenience items and some adventure areas), then that isn't half bad.
As long as items that effect pvp gameplay aren't being sold then I'm fine with it.
They have allready stated the game WILL have micro transactions and the items bought can be found in game. so this is not news.
aslong as its strictly appearance based i dont mind anything thats adds more xp or gives you leet weapons is a deal breaker
Source?
Rut roh.
No replys yet.
And there was someone working for EA? said it might have MTs a LONG time ago, and than it was refuted. They said that they were unsure what type of system they would use. It had not been officially confirmed.
This is news.
To be honest I'm not cool with any RMT items that affects appearance either. To me that's a game breaker. This is one of the main reasons I refuse to play CO. Generic items like xp boosts and skills (skills that are still obtainable in game) are fine. But as far as appearance and equipment go, that might actually push me away from it. I feel that when appearance items start to appear in the RMT system that becomes the main idea for content updates in that certain area (meaning you will rarely see it added as world drops etc), and that's something I don't want.
I'll wait it out, see what they say. There is already a thread on the SWTOR boards about what form of payment method people wan't there is not mention of RMT, so this could be false. Right now 81% of the votes are wanting P2P monthly. Nothing else.
swtor.com/community/showthread.php
Edited for clarity.
LA debunked that, it was on Kotaku a few months ago. They claimed it as a rumor but neve denied it either, but it remains still just that a rumor.
A store that allows you to get skills/xp boosts/items/weapons with money that others would spend hours and hours getting otherwise would push me away much quicker.
Looking different with races/items that give no bonuses, I think, are perfect for any game.
Of course, this could, again, be points used in server transfers, extra slots, race changes sort of thing. AoC uses points you buy to do all of this.
oh and a few people responded on the TOR forums, so it might assplode soon.
Wow. They closed my thread, and created a "poll" about how you want to pay....
They say they haven't decided yet. They put those things there in case they did decide to have microtransactions. No news is no news.
Yep, and you pointed out that they had all options for vote, maybe that says something.
IMO i could care less if they have MT, just as long as they are not game changing. I will be playing this either way tho. lol
Yep, and you pointed out that they had all options for vote, maybe that says something.
Yes, and it did not in the first poll.
A payment similar to DDO maybe? With a monthly plan that gives you points? Or let's you buy certain things with points?
If It is something like that, I'd expect "adventure packs" from DDO will come later, and everyone would start out with it all.
Yes, and it did not in the first poll.
A payment similar to DDO maybe? With a monthly plan that gives you points? Or let's you buy certain things with points?
If It is something like that, I'd expect "adventure packs" from DDO will come later, and everyone would start out with it all.
Maybe it's infraction points lol, . Anyways I imagine the voting options is telling of something. anyways I imagine all these "I'm not buying this game if it has RMT" people will eventually just pick up the game. It's freakin $tar Wars lol
That's true, but there is also limitations to what people will deal with when it comes to RMTs.
If this game was F2P with microtransactions, and $40 to get the game, that would be awesome
I wouldn't mind seeing SWTOR free to play, something along the lines of Guild Wars but I don't see how that would be profitable with the kind of ambition they're putting into the development of this game. They most-likely want to compete with World of Warcraft so I guess we can expect there to be $15 a month and micro-transactions?
Well even WoW has RMT, can't forget the TCG. But it's nothing more then mounts and non-combat pets, and a few shapshifting items (ogre suit). If ToR could do something like this, that would be awesome. I wouldn't mind treating myself to a cool speeder for 5 bucks at the end of the week. But buying armor/weapons or sets of it, is out of the question.
Nope. I don't play RMT games that are free why the hell would I buy a game with RMT? SWG is Star Wars and I don't play that either.
Well even WoW has RMT, can't forget the TCG. But it's nothing more then mounts and non-combat pets, and a few shapshifting items (ogre suit). If ToR could do something like this, that would be awesome. I wouldn't mind treating myself to a cool mount for 5 bucks at the end of the week. But buying armor/weapons or sets of it, is out of the question.
Also keep in mind, GW2 has been stated by NCSoft to be their largest MMO project ever, bigger than Aion. So that pretty much says if BioWare did their research they expect to make a good enough return if they go that same route with SWTOR.
BioWare most certainly may have to try something different to get subscriptions over upcoming MMOs. It has the Star Wars IP, Old republic era, BioWare behind it and it seems to have a decent community thus far. But there are going to be walls in the future, GW2 as you said, Cataclysm, even JGE will have some affect. But is RMT the risk they wanna take? Everything is in their hands, hopefully they will do it right. Currently this is nothing more then speculation, we don't have a clue on BioWares payment method. I think the best way for them to pull ahead is to just but out an amazing game with no strings attached.
after playing dungeons and dragons online i think mircro transactions suit me . in fact i would go so far as to say most games would do better with either ddo or guildwars model . a while ago i argued that different payment models should be looked at in mmo gaming and that nowhere is it set in stone that it should be 15 dollars a month . it seams a few developers are thinking along those lines now . i ll even go so far as to predict that the game that requires a 15 dollar monthly will become increasingly rare . i would nt be suprised if warhammer and age of conan end up going free to play soon as well if ddo proves a success . lets face it most mmos are not worth the currrent monthly subscription fee .
DDO does have an excellent RMT from what I have read, I admit I have yet to give it a go. But it offers two ways of payment which is a great way to get chunk of the MMO market. As long as neither one gets a benefit over the other, it's fail safe, in my opinion.
www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4146/building_experiences_the_bioware_.php
“For so many years, we just saw this thing as retail, but I think that’s finally changing. Now, you see these 10 million person numbers for monthly plays on Facebook games. Your jaw hits the floor. People, in a sense, are doing more in a month of actual plays than World of Warcraft. It’s certainly not monetizing anywhere near the same level, but the actual [number of] people touching that product is enormous.
It’s very insightful for us, because I think a lot of the really smart things are low barrier to entry, and games that work on any system. It’s kind of permissive, in the sense that if people really want to engage with it, they’ll start spending money if you make a really great game. If you make quality stuff, it plays to your strength. There are a lot of neat opportunities there.
Also, obviously, the MMO space continues to get bigger and bigger and more important. I think you’re going to be starting to see — there are already a few now in North America — full free-to-play MMOs with microtransactions coming down the pipe and stuff. So, lots and lots of exciting stuff there.” – Greg Zeschuk
i wana know the figures on how many people signed up to the site/beta i think that will give them a good reason to go p2p.
There are over 270k members there, and TBH most of the people who just showed up to sign up and make one post are more open to the idea. The fans who use game forums are pretty much the vocal minority.
As long as the MT's are not to buy armor, or buy pots and such I am all fore it. If it is for cosmetic and doesn't make a player more powerful like atternate costumes for Street Fighter IV then I see nothing wrong with it.
But please please please make it a monthly subby. That would be perfectly ok with me.
I have a feeling this will work similarly to Age of Conan's system where it's probably primarily account based, and now a vet system.
As an intelligent human being, microtransactions don't factor in whether I play a game or not.
I've yet to see a complete solid argument as to why playing a game with a subscription that offers non-gameplay impacting rewards through a microtransaction system, is such an evil thing and would cause someone not to play that game.
I intend to play Champions Online, Star Trek Online, and SW:TOR regardless of their little point stores because why should I deprive myself of an entire experience because someone wanted to spend 5 dollars to get a little pet or armor piece that doesn't do anything. If I wanted to buy it, I also have the magical option of buying that same piece if I choose to.
Some people would rather just complain and criticize than enjoy life. Toodles.
The problem with RMT is that even if its done right at the begining (it usually is) theres no guarantee they wont be tempted to push micros in the future by adding more than fluff or convenience items to their cash shop. This is a dealbreaker for me, i hope its nothing more than legaleese to protect them from liability. I will certainly try this game if its p2p, but not otherwise.
If microtransactions become the norm in swtor, I'll buy the game, shit in the box, factory seal it and promptly send it back for a full refund.
Nope. I am willing to pay a flat up-front fee of up to 15 bucks a month. I simply refuse to play any game that tries to nickle and dime me. I will not play an game with an open ended monthly fee, and I won't play a game where other players have an advantage or just get cooler stuff than me because they are willing to pay more per month than I am. I love Star Wars, and i have been anxiously awaiting this game, but I won't even try it out if they employ micro-transactions of any kind.
Yeah, yours is the third thread that was closed on the topic. The first was mine, pointing to the website that actually broke the story (www.holofeed.com) on the day Beta was actually announced, not a few days later when Darth Hater picked up the story from there. In fact, I'm a little confused...I submitted a link to the story on Holofeed on the 29th of September to mmorpg.com so they would find it, but they apparently decided to credit the story to someone else.
Funny how life works, eh?
I see a lot of people making this same point, but I don't agree. It's all horse armor to me. Withholding content that would have otherwise been included in the regular monthly fee, simply to sell it separately is enough reason for me not to play a game. It doesn't matter to me whether or not it gives anyone a competitive advantage. these games are generally about the acquisition of loot and character customization, charging extra for these things is BS. Western MMO players have generally been against RMT, and have spoken clearly with their subscription dollars on the subject. If we decide now that it's OK to withhold some loot and sell it to us for a few bucks more, then we may as well all just get prepared to pay 30 bucks a month for the exact same amount of content we now get for 15.
see, i dont want a game store...i want a free to play game that follows a guild wars type model...with boxed content that get released that you DO NOT have to buy.....This is a good model not shitty F2P that takes away skill from a game.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! THAT IS NOT TRUE!!! :X
I thought they had already mentioned once that they were looking at a subscription model with no monthly payments but having MT's. Anybody else remember this?
IMO MT's don't bother me at all as long as whatever is in the cash shop is attainable through playing the game.
No. But, thankfully what has been talked about as far as the the game goes by Vogel, Walton and the few other interviews they aren't making a MMO I'd want to invest time in anyway so I won't have to struggle with this dilemma.
Paying for items, in any way, means I will not be buying this game.
microtransactions don't belong in a game of this magnitude. How hard is it to come up with 15 bucks a month. Even a 10 year old can do that. Come on bioware, don't spend all of this time making a great game then ruin it with shady microtransactions.
^ My thoughts exactly. If it's subscription + RMT then no, I won't so much as use a free trial if one is offered.
A the game being a f2p with a cash shop would be the only way I would play the game at this point. It's essentially a co-op kotor with over the top star wars cliches. Sadly, I know they're going to try to milk the game both ways. Either way, I lost hope for this title a long time ago. Bioware needs to stick to making single player RPGs
That's not a gamer - or even a game designer talking - it's a business man. A suit. People like him shouldn't be designing games. Cash shops WILL alter the design.
Come on, we know virtually nothing about the game atm! I will definitely give it a try, whatever the payment model is. I am no fan of MT and RMT, but I will try out the game, no matter what.
As much as I have followed this game, desperately wanting to play it.....
If you can pay money to aquire items/skills that benefit your character. I WILL NOT PLAY.
I repeat, I WILL NOT PLAY. I have faith, that Bioware would not do such a silly thing. We gamers are NOT stupid, do not treat us like idiots. Turning this into a F2P format with a store will drive this game into the ground. DON'T BE GREEDY BIOWARE.
If this game is great, which sadly, I don't think it will be, I would gladly pay more than $15 a month to keep it RMT free. I'm not sure how many people would get behind say, a $19.99 sub, but if that would keep RMTs out, then I'm all for it!
It's clear that BioWare has quickly achieved a standard degree of greed and lack of vision despite their inexperience with MMOs.
As for 'players' supporting cash shops - well, it's unfortunate that you think so little of yourselves to accept the insulting sucker bait design.
That's wrong dude.What exactly do you mean core game?you are EXPECTING to buy the BEST effort a developer can give you.You should not be saying things like "it is ok to take parts of a game out and sell them to you later".That is exactly what Aion is doing and how Guild wars is done,they both have their sneaky ways to grind more money out of you.
Personally i hate microtransaction games,they are poorly designed and ONLY designed to rape more money out of you than an actual subscription would.This is because they do expect some kids that will not pay a cent or can't,so they expect the paying customers to make up the slack.There is NO such thing as EXTRAS in a game,if they designed them into the game ,they ARE part of the game,trying to charge you more money to get the COPMPLETE game is really a joke and developers like that should not be supported.
As a matter of fact,item mall games should NEVER cost more than a 15 dollar sub,if they offer bits of the game back to you that add up to more than a full subscription,they are criminals ripping you off.If they take out say 15 items from a game and offer them back at a dollar each,i am totally ok with that,it makes sense,but removing 50 parts and selling them back at 2 bucks each is crooked,because to get the whole game back as designed you would pay 100 bucks to play the entire game.This is actually what item mall games do,that's why they have a black mark amongst gamers,and rightfully so.
I would take no issue at all at paying more for a great game. $30, $45 per months would be fine IF it's a great game designed for its players, rather than its investors.
It's inevitable that games charging more per month will show up. It would be a good way to cover the cost of more niche designs (like survival horror). Just be clear and above board, devs. Don't manipulate and deceive us anymore.
Enough is enough, and the 'players' who defend this garbage are more to blame than the devs.
Depends on what these micro transactions are to be honest. Champions Online has MTs and they don't affect the game whatsoever at this point, though this could change. As long as thegs MTs do not affect the game or shift balance of the game then I'm all for it, minor things like cosmetics and non combat pets would fit along these lines, in NO way, shape, or form should they implement something like most Korean MMOs where you get damage and exp boosters, weapons and armor, or powers and attacks if they do implement this, then I feel that this will only kill the game before it gets off the ground.
From what I have read and seen from LA and BW. I think two things will be apart of this game, Sub so that everyone is one even ground when it comes to playing and PvP but we'll see a shop like Guild Wars where we buy new toon slots, player housing and things of that nature.
But it makes no sense for BW to make a MT game if they want to compete with WoW like they said they did. You would not make the profit or have the sales like WoW has. This game will be popular either way, but if it is MT to play then it will never take on WoW. Then again with it being a SW game you would still have a few million fans so it wouldn't be a failure like some of the other games that have come out.
Shit has hit the fan, I suppose...
A little bit of clarification would save them a lot of hassle in my opinion.
As long as its fluff and cosmetic options I have NO problem with it. As long and it does not allow people to pay their way to the top I dont see what the big deal is.
Two points:
1 - They will, eventually, offer game-changing items for sale. Novelty items won't generate enough sales for them.
2 - They will devote time and effort into the cash items that should be going into the core game.
Two points:
1 - They will, eventually, offer game-changing items for sale. Novelty items won't generate enough sales for them.
2 - They will devote time and effort into the cash items that should be going into the core game.
Your a glass half-empty kind of guy aren't ya...
I would use the word realist, at least as far as RMT is concerned.
It will definitely be disappointing if they choose this monetary making method.
Right now I don't have much time for playing games. So as a consequence of that a part of me hopes they do implement imcrotransactions, because such mmorpgs are 100% dead for me personally ... thus sparing me the time managment conflicts arising from a new mmorpg. ^^
Yeah, yours is the third thread that was closed on the topic. The first was mine, pointing to the website that actually broke the story (www.holofeed.com) on the day Beta was actually announced, not a few days later when Darth Hater picked up the story from there. In fact, I'm a little confused...I submitted a link to the story on Holofeed on the 29th of September to mmorpg.com so they would find it, but they apparently decided to credit the story to someone else.
Funny how life works, eh?
I feel the need to refute as it seems to be the same person who posted this accusation on our website before this:
The article originally came from a comment we received a couple hours after the beta application came online from a commenter on our website named Eria. By the time the article went through the approval process and was posted it was 5:14pm EST on Sept 30th the next day. As for ’stealing info’ and 'not crediting', we credited the person who originally posted a comment about it on our website in the article, which also came earlier than the post you claim that 'actually broke the story' -
Note the time/date mark of the comment
eria said: 2009.09.30 00:38(Link to the comment)
Meaning it was posted on the 30th at 12:38AM Central, and the 29th at 11:38PM Eastern. Which is almost a full hour before the article you mention us ‘not crediting’ was posted (10:28 PM GMT-7 on the 29th or 12:28 AM GMT-5 Eastern on the 30th, according to their own website). They may have posted the article about it earlier than us but the original source, credited in the article, came almost a full hour before their post hit their page.
We also tried to see if there was any reference to it on forum before posting the article but due to the official website/forum being down there was no way of confirming an earlier source. We even made an attempt to check all the TOR related websites we knew of at the time to make sure the article was not posted at another source which may have not been credited by the commenter and found no one mentioning the subject talked about.
Oh well, I wasn't sure if I was interested in this game before this. Now I know I can cross it off my list.
I play EQ2 now so it is possible that I would play a game with micro transitions.
But we still know very little about things.
Will the game have a price to get, monthly pay and microtransitions? If it doesn't have a monthly fee I see no problem.
What are the things you buy? Servers moves, name changes and so on? RPG stuff like clothes that look good but without stats?
XP pots? The best gear in the game? Stuff for customizing your character?
Sorry, I can't really coment anything until I know more.
I know that I don't like RMt shops in a P2P MMO....
It's sad people never read much outside the first few posts, or the first page.
As was mentioned here and in the thread on the TOR forums, the poll they put on on the TOR forums allowed you to select ALL of the options.
It very well could be a DDO sort of setup. A monthly fee for EVERYTHING, and includes the game points, used for various vanity things. You get the entire game/content/races/classes, and can use the points on special looks and such.
Or you can play free, and buy adventure packs, items, weapons, armor, npcs, level icons (to level past every 4th level), with points.
if it is for things like ingame pets, character transfers , extra character slots.,or if the points are not bought with money but are earned for doing ingame things or awarded say for each month of paid subscription they are fine.
HOLY SHIT!. NO!
Looks like they are trying to get the "Failure of the Millennium"-Award... And they'll get it with MT.
HOW STUPID CAN ONE COMPANY BE?!
There is an awful lot of competition for the title.
If MTs are for RP stuff etc, then I am ok with it. Otherwise I will not be getting this game. Been waiting a damn long time to get the game but MTs will cause me not to get it if done for the wrong reasons.
Damn
Ah, but will you quit if the game-changing items are added after you have been playing for a couple of months?
Champions Online hasn't added any yet (I believe), but they have said they will be doing so.
I suspect that SW:TOR will do the same sort of manipulation. Whether they admit it beforehand or not.
The devs know that a lot of people don't want helpful items in the cash shop, but they also know it's harder to leave a game after playing for a while than to avoid it from the start.
Well crud.
One thing I can say at least they are doing this up front, so laster down the road they don't change things, and upset the player base later.
Unlike LOTRO who is going MT right now with their sutff. Buy the adventure pack get 2 extra character slots and shared bank, dont buy it and then you for k out money still for SOM and dont get sqaut. Then they forced a lot of montly players to go multi month. A lot of folks are upset about that. Changing the business model after the game has been out is not good.
EQ2 has MT but all of it is cosmetic, I don't mind cosmetic. IT is the MT stuff like DDO and what they are pulling in LOTRO now, extra character slots, extra storage. In ddo access to certain areas. I am sure in LOTRO no more free updates.
I guess companies have decided that MT is the way of the futre. I will still give this a try, but if you can buy armor and what not with the point system and a store well then I am not in for it.
I just hope the point system is to unlock certain ares of the game and easter eggs kind of like chronicles of riddick.
I think microtransactions in general put a bad taste is people's mouths, especially if the title is already PPM. There are various ways to help "sweeten" the deals, by making it less required, purely cosmetic, and controlling some of the "evil" RMT (like gold selling)...but at the end of the day a spade is a spade.
I won't outright say I won't try old republic due to microtransactions, but add it to everything else & decide (and hopefully see the bug numbers in the beta). It is a shame when you get PPM and want to fiddle in RMT, but here is not to decide "right & wrong"...more just to hope that it is used very skillfully (like the "loose RMT" which WoW has, i.e. name changes, etc).
Ah well, whats the worst that can happen? j/k...then again this game is a flame magnet already, here comes a wildfire.
Not a fan of MT at all...
I'll wait and see though. It's a preliminary contract. It could change from now until release.
if this turns out to be true then the game needs to be free to download and free to play or i know of at least one customer who is out
The problem with micro transactions, the devs start then off with non essential items and then add and add....before you know it, you end up relying on the game store to be competitive. I have no idea what Bioware plans to do. I still intend to try this game out, but the minute they add items to the store that effect gameplay, I will be gone, that includes any form of leveling help.
If this is true, its a big enough negitive for me that I will not purchase the game unless its just unbeatably groundbreaking awesome. Ya, that its gotta be that good or its a no go.
I have always been against a MT + Sub paymant plan in any form. As other posters have said it does not matter what it in the MT store its basically withholding things that would otherwise have been in the game for a few extra bucks. So MT + Sub is a big no-no for me. One of the reasons I refuse to go back and play EQ2 for example.
Some people will argue its "only fluff" items etc. Others will say that the items "are available in game anyway" so it does not matter. Bull. People like fluff items, my wife lives for the fluff items in game. Customizing her character and decorating her house are major things for her. As for it already being in game .. lets be real here. Sure it may be in game but you can be damm sure its super rare .. or why go to the effort of trying to sell it? You dont make money selling items in a MT store that are common or easy to get in the game.
So as you can see I am against MT stores in sub based games. Thats not to say that I think MT stores are evil ... in a F2P game they are what they are and its just an alternate payment method. F2P game live and die by thier MT stores and thats fine ... one or the other is perfectly acceptable to me, Milking the customer with both is just plain greedy IMO. (CO for example, EQ2 bler) Bottom line for me is that although the items start off pretty harmless ... if the company wants a cash injection you can bet your life the MT store items will reflect that with more and more desirable (read = Game effecting) items.
On the other hand .. the DDO model is fantastic. Its an either / or situation which I find it great. They have really thought about thier MT store and it is in my mind the best of both worlds. You can either use the MT store coupled with in-game points earned to play the game or you can sub-monthly and get it all. Choice is what consumers want and Turbine really came through with the DDO model.
If Bioware follows a similar model to Turbine with DDO then I dont see how they can go wrong.
It's funny watching all the chicken little impersonations as everyone runs around thinking the world is gonna end the second someone mentions Microtransactions.
I mean, sure, just about every other facet of our lives has microtransactions, including other successful video games, but clearly now the world is over.
I don't know what you are talking about.... I have transactions of varying sizes in my day to day life, but I don't generally have them added to my regular transactions. When I buy a meal, I don't want to be charged extra for the optional thinks like salt and ice for my drink. I don't expect to pay a plate rental fee or pay an extra 1.99 to sit in the non-smoking section. Micro-transactions in MMOS mean selling people things that would have otherwise been included in the original stated fee, whether that is a monthly fee or the cost of a regular boxed game. Other "successful" games (at least in the Western hemisphere) don't have micro-transactions on top of a monthly fee.
I think the reason for that is most peoples experiance with MT's is via F2P MMO's where the MT's were pretty much required to advance in the game. Most people I know either accept MT's and deal or dont and stay away from F2P games.
The reason its such a hot issue atm is because some games are now adopting a MT+SUB payment method which brings out the worst in people. I myself dont care for it at all .. one or the other is fine by me and I have nps accepting a MT store in a no-sub game. Paying for content twice generally upsets people, and thats exactly how they view a MT+SUB based game.
An either / or method is fine, choice is always good for the consumer.
Most people would react better to a game being released with a higher monthly sub rather than a MT+SUB method. Lets be honest its about time monthly subs went up .. we hav'ent seen a price raise in what 3 years? The current economic climate being what it is though no game is willing to be the "first" to do this for fear of losing customers, even though you can bet that as soon as one does .. all prices across the board will raise to match it.
Newer people to the MMO scene will generally be more accepting of this dual-payment scheme than the older MMO players. Mostly because we are used to paying for our produce via a sub and that including all the content. You cant just change 10+ years of payment method and have people accept it over night, it will cause waves.
As I've said I am all for an either / or method as with DDO which I think is fantastic ... hell I'd even be willing to take several payment methods.
No sub + MT store = Buying adventure packs / extra content from the store.
$15 + MT store = Getting "most content" with the sub and leaving some "extras" in the store.
$20 = Giving you all content unrestricted with no need to use the store at all.
Pretty much just a way to "hide" and increase in sub prices, since if the game is that "good" and warrents people will pay the full sub anyway.
Welcome to the new age of MMO. People can scream scam all they want, most companies are going this way, you accept it or leave. Blizzard, SoE, NCSoft, Bioware, and Cryptics does it and probably many more.
Maybe this game is targeted more towards the rest of the player base than us.
Does anybody have a stats whether F2P earn more than P2P games? Eg, Lineage have 20 mil players?
Cant help but fell that F2P companies earn more money and with this IP which is world wide recognize, alot of players wouldnt mind if they have game changing items in store.
But if that's true, im surely out...
If the customers say "NO" the companies will change or go out of business. It's that simple.
I don't know about that. My guess is that WoW makes more money than any other MMO, without using RMT. You could be right that on average MT games make more per player than subscription based games, but I bet there are a lot of people playing F2P games without buying anything at all. I just think that a game aimed at a western market would make more money overall by having a standard, flat rate... simply by having more actual paying customers.
I also think that if they want to be able to crow about their number of subs, free-to-play is the way to go. Look at free realms, it's a terrible game but they can still claim 5 million users or whatever. They aren't fooling anyone though. You simply can't compare subscriber numbers between free games and those with a monthly fee.
Maybe this game is aim at the majority of asian gamers? Plus not all western gamers hate RMT. We might be only the minority.
Ive 3 friends that play F2P games. They always told me they wouldnt play a P2P as if they dont have the time to play, than the money is wasted. But when they do have time to play those F2P games, they would spend more than $15 each month for item upgrades and fluff stuff, and some of the fluff stuff is quite important, like mounts...
Agree. The devs will just spend more time on items you need to pay extra for and let the normal content go. Look at swg now, not only is their trading card game getting expansions and more content than the game itself, they are taking ideas from the community and making them into cards you have to buy. Whats worse is, they are even using the graphics that people come up with for new idea's as content and putting that graphic on the cards. I agree that those people still sub'd to that game deserve everything they get, or don't get, but look for the same thing in any game that's pay to paly and MT.
If the customers say "NO" the companies will change or go out of business. It's that simple.
You live in a dream world my friend, if you think we will all say "NO".
We have to realise that in the past 5 years, the subscription price never went up, still 14,99$/Month. So they have to find other way to get money without people say, it's too expensive, I will go play some other game at 14,99$. This way they keep the same price as everyone and you can choose to buy from the store. You see the choice is yours, they do not force you to pay more or buy from the store.
I didn't say "all", and I remember the collapse of the home video gaming market in the early '80s, when customers finally stopped mindlessly buying the garbage companies were shoveling at them.
It happened before - it will happen again, if the companies continue as they are.
I didn't say "all", and I remember the collapse of the home video gaming market in the early '80s, when customers finally stopped mindlessly buying the garbage companies were shoveling at them.
It happened before - it will happen again, if the companies continue as they are.
People still goes to theatre even if the price double over the last 10 years, they still go to sports event, concert, amusement park.....everything goes up in price exept MMO, so people will accept it, it's not like it's the end of the world.
An interesting example to think about is the airline industry. There was, and still is, a huge move to reduce the essential cost of the seat on the flight but then charge extra for anything and everything you could possibly charge for. Baggage fees for example. Sure, you've paid for yourself, but now you have to pay extra for your bag.
This pisses people off. Seriously. As someone else said, it just leaves a sour taste in your mouth. It makes the companies look sleazy and underhanded.
This is so true that I've now seen airlines advertising themselves entirely on the basis that there are no baggage fees. These are expensive television adds... so my guess is someone has done the research and found just how much people hate these sorts of microtransactions.
I'm surprised that Bioware would wish to even be seen thinking about such a grabby and underhanded practice. The devil is in the detail though, and it doesn't have to be bad. The problem is, and here I agree with other posters here, is that this detail can change once you become an invested player. For this reason alone I'd prefer that Bioware took the high road and stayed away from MT altogether. It just makes me feel more comfortable as a paying customer.
I think that a majority of Western players would rather play a game with a slightly higher monthly fee than deal with RMT. We understand inflation over time, but we like to know up front what we will be paying for something. and no, I do not think this game is being developed more for Asian than Western markets. I say if they need RMT as a payment model to succeed in Asian markets then go ahead and offer it there. No reason we have to have a unified global payment model.
I have played a few games with RMT before and I have hated it each time. There is no way to say you are only selling things that don't affect gameplay.... as almost any in-game item or ability affects gameplay. If I have to run all over the map like a chump while other players can fast travel, that affects gameplay. If for a few bucks you can look cooler than me, that affects gameplay. In a game where your character is essentially a walking trophy case, I see any visual improvements as gameplay elements. It doesn't have to unbalance PvP combat to affect the game for you. I'm not complaining because I can't afford these purchases. I know me and I would by the stuff... all of it. I'm a completist, it's why I play MMOs. I just like to know what I'm getting from a game and for how much. I don't want to pay 50 bucks a month for an MMO, $1.99 at a time.
well this just changed my mind.... I've played a game with micro transactions before and I hated it. Before now I was on the fence as to which game I would play... but now? Final Fantasy XIV here I come
Keep your fingers crossed.
I would bet that the subscription will be $20.00 a month with MT. And I wouldn't be surprised if its not $30.00 a month thats the price of a cup of coffee a day. LA is a crazy person and the work that Bioware is putting into this mmo will open the door too the excuse too up the subscription.
If they want to go free with MT, OR sub with no MT, I'm fine with it.
But if they want to include both? I don't care how good the game is or how much I'm looking forward to playing it. As someone else said, doing both is the same as charging a fee for luggage after already paying for a flight. No one likes it, and I won't support it.
Still, as they haven't made any announcement yet about payment plans, I'm not writing TOR off yet.
I have a feeling RMT is more of an emotional issue, and here’s why.
Keep in mind it's not really just the RMT system most people despise in MMOs, it's more then likely the mechanics of Asian MMOs that people fear, which in the end boils down to a different play style all together. Some Asian MMOs fail in the West because the mechanics are just so different all around, it has little to do with RMT, yet we pin it too the RMT aspect because that is what is much more visible in some of the F2P games we use as examples.
Anyone remember RF Online? People paid $50 for that game, and $14.99 per month to play it. It was considered a boring grinder for most of us Westerners, and yet it had NO RMT. Loot drops were worthless, content was repetitive, the over all look and feel felt some what cheap to some. Later they tried RMT in that game, but it didn't make it better or worse or even more appealing for us to try because the mechanics remained the same.
Another example is Guild Wars. Some hate it, some love it, and some claim it is not a traditional MMO. You can clearly see what some consider the Asian influence in this title. Regardless of what you think it is you can not ignore the big huge glaring fact that it's different from other western MMOs. Invisible walls, instances within city areas, instances outside the city walls, the “look” of characters, click to move ect. Combat wise it plays like a high quality single player RPG, yet there are areas where there are plenty of players, and if you have friends it feels like an MMO. Yet because it’s in the category of an MMO by the media, it is considered lame by some Western gamers because it does not follow what we call the traditional MMO style.
Now consider Aion, it looks like a typical Asian MMO. The sounds, the music, the combat sequences ect are very Asian in influence. Yet it plays like your average Westernized MMO, and you pay for it. The grind is no different from a game like EQ2, the amount of quality loot drops are equal, resource gathering is similar, open areas and instances like other MMOs (actually less zoning then EQ2) If they were to not change a thing mechanic wise to this game, yet add a form of RMT to it and make it free, would it make game play any better or worse for those who hate or like it? Most likely not.
When SOE added RMT to SWG, EQ2 some complained, but once they figured out it changed none of the existing mechanics, people considered it no more than a vanity addition. A lot times people will complain because something “looks different from theirs, even though the performance or enhancement of the item is no better that the 20 variations they may have in their inventory. But because someone bought it, it makes it better.
DDO Online. The folks who are paying for that game get what they want out of it with few complaints; the folks who are playing for free get what they want out of it as well with few complaints. It’s still the same game for booth sides, yet one gains a bit more then the other because they pay for it. This to me is similar to cell phone service, you can pay for the extras if you want or need them, or if you don’t care for it, you don’t pay the extra cost.
So you may pay money to have better or different things. How is this any different from the guy who has 18 hours to spend getting better things over you who may only have 3 hours? Some folks may never have a need or even the want to spend time getting some of these epic items, yet because someone can buy it, they feel it cheapens it even though they may never do the grind to obtain it. The folks who want to be uber will always find a way to become uber, whether they grind for it, buy it on ebay, trade for it, or buy it through RMT. These are the hardcore players, they will always strive to achieve that level no mater the cost, even if they have to *gasp* buy gold to do it.
So in closing it’s my assumption that for some, the fear of RMT and what comes with it is more of an emotional issue. Once people get over the idea that only with RMT comes gameplay mechanics they dislike, players that are better than them, pointless content, they may find it really does not matter in the end. For once, it might be possible to actually make an MMO that is fun to play, and includes the addition of a form of RMT.
RF online failed because it was god awful, even if it released as a good game (western styled) with RMT would it have still failed? I think so, but it depends on what the RMT offers.
It's a lot different to pay money to get in a day what some took weeks to months to obtain, it's cheap, not rewarding and plain silly. I don't care how you swing it, it's entirely different. Paying a 15/m is as fair as it gets, I don't want to be part of a game that has a RMT alternative to actually experiencing what the game has to offer. According to you to RF online failed because it was not westernized, and RMT is? You will have the same affect, contrary to belief, BioWare and the Star Wars IP will not make up for cheap cash grabs like full RMT systems. Most people can deal with fluff items, so going with that shouldn't be a problem, see WoWs. I can garentee if the cash shop (if there is one) offers gear/game changing items, the game will never reach it's full potential, doing something like this is a major risk. I know plenty of people watching and waiting for this game, heavy RMT is a major deal breaker. And you can bet many people feel the same.
People that don't have the time, in modern MMOs are offered alternative in game ways to do so with out spending an extra dime. WoW has a decent system. I have always thought player skill should be rewarded over time spent, I guess I need to change it to Player Skill should be rewarded over time spent and money spent. If people don't have a few hours a week to achieve things in a "casual" MMO, then maybe they need a new hobby.
No. It's not because it's new or different. It's because it's a bad idea.
I am also opposed to micro transactions... I do not like the business model at all.
RF online failed because it was god awful, even if it released as a good game (western styled) with RMT would it have still failed? I think so, but it depends on what the RMT offers.
It's a lot different to pay money to get in a day what some took weeks to months to obtain, it's cheap, not rewarding and plain silly. I don't care how you swing it, it's entirely different. Paying a 15/m is as fair as it gets, I don't want to be part of a game that has a RMT alternative to actually experiencing what the game has to offer. According to you to RF online failed because it was not westernized, and RMT is? You will have the same affect, contrary to belief, BioWare and the Star Wars IP will not make up for cheap cash grabs like full RMT systems. Most people can deal with fluff items, so going with that shouldn't be a problem, see WoWs. I can garentee if the cash shop (if there is one) offers gear/game changing items, the game will never reach it's full potential, doing something like this is a major risk. I know plenty of people watching and waiting for this game, heavy RMT is a major deal breaker. And you can bet many people feel the same.
People that don't have the time, in modern MMOs are offered alternative in game ways to do so with out spending an extra dime. WoW has a decent system. I have always thought player skill should be rewarded over time spent, I guess I need to change it to Player Skill should be rewarded over time spent and money spent. If people don't have a few hours a week to achieve things in a "casual" MMO, then maybe they need a new hobby.
I guess I can just look at this a bit more objectively then most. The thing is though, paying $15 per month is a form of a micro transaction, yet people get hostile over the idea of others saving money with yearly plans or lifetime plans because some how that means those players get more. And yet they also freak out about spending less and havig some RMT, because then there is the assumption they get less.
Humans are strange animals indeed, pushed any which way out of their comfort zone a bit and they freak out because one bad past experience changed their perception on what is comfortable and what isn't.
Anyways the points they describe may mean something as simple as factional points, or quest points you can turn in for stuff. Yet I'm sure there will be some people who feel that is a stretch because their minds are so wrapped around how bad RMT is; they can never slow down enough to consider another possibility.
Tillamook, which company are you working for - Cryptic, SOE, or BioWare?
I'm sure neither, difference of opinion, that's all.
Paying 15/m is however you see it. Still a major difference though. 15/m gives everybody the same content for one monthly payment, there are no strings attached, equality among all players. It has nothing to do with how much money you have, it has to do with playing a game for enjoyment, I don't know how you feel, but in an MMO I don't want major differences like this. I want everybody to have the same treatment, without having to go the extra mile such as paying real money. I'm sorta casual player I can make time to do raids and such, but wont if I run into other things, that's life. Giving in game alternatives that you achieve through dedication and skill looks better and feels more rewarding then forking out 55 bucks for a set of armor.
Past experience has nothing to do with this bro. It's not hard to look at the outcome of the situation. Do you seriously wanna be part of something like this? I have real life things I have to do with my money, I wont even involve the recession, with that aside, I have bills, and personal things to take care of. I find the time to play games through luck and friends/family not having anything scheduled. People are already happy with 15 bucks a month, people love to stick to what they are comfortable with, it's not strange, it's absolutely normal. RMTs of that scale push the boundaries in a large way.
The points you describe are a possibility, but the fact that BioWare has yet to debunk this gives us a reason to discuss. Discussion is a good thing. Until they clarify you can expect people to discuss what this could and couldn't mean.
I just was about to to sign up for beta. This made me quit. No microtransactions for me, no matter what game. Sorry, I was looking forward for swtor :(
It's yet to be confirmed.....don't take everything you see here to heart, for now, it's a rumor. Sign up, if they touch the situation then make a decision. Don't be narrow minded.
That may be true, but it is still important that you say something when you don't like it, or we get MORE of it. At least as long as we say our dislike, we can hope the RMT is limited in scope.
Looking at the way it is in EQ2 I don't really have a problem with it, as long as its some few limited, fancy items. What is of much greater importance to me is that TOR is not F2P. All those F2P games catch so many vulgar freeloaders; payment is as least *some* sort of filter.
The problem is, some accountants figured out that there are people who are willing to pay the subscription fee AND RMT costs to make even MORE money.
Sure, they could jack up the price to 20 bucks a month... but there'd still be the people with no control who'd pay 20 bucks a month AND for RMT items/services. The accountants see this... what they don't see is the number of people who won't pay at all because of it. Or, if they do, they figure that the few thousand people paying hundreds per month will more than make up for the "few" who won't pay to play because of the RMT's.
Those of you who refuse to even try microtransaction games are going to run out of any new titles to play in the very near future. The RMT model is the future of MMORPGs and will eventually overtake all other payment models.
I don't see why this is such a big deal for people as long as the items in the store do not have a big effect on the gameplay. Who cares if someone buys a silly cosmetic upgrade or even a minor XP boosting potion from a cash shop? That is not going to imbalance the game against players who do not purchase those items. If done responsibly, as the OP suggests, MTs are not so bad.
Again, I'll bring up the "Accountant". They see people willing to pay big bucks for cosmetic items and think, "Well, now that we've conditioned them to buy stuff that's fluff, they'll be MORE than willing to buy stuff that's "required".
And then after a few years of this, some game developer will come up with the idea of a "subscription" model where you pay a flat rate for everything in the game, and presto, everything that was old is new again.
It's the future because people allow it to be. If we run out of titles so what. MMOs are a hobby that can be replaced if it starts to bottom out.
Yes if done responsibly MTs can be a decent addition. What I said earlier is what most people are fine with, not all. See the whole problem is people give into this sort of cash grab to easily. Do people seriously think that fluff RMTs bring subscriptions? Why not just include the items in the game, make them achievable? My forum handle might shed some light on this.
This kind of raw speculation is lame. Reasons why they aren't talking about Microtransactions.
1. The agreement has to do with game testing not the full game.
2. The points are rewarded in the game program NOT purchased.
Just read the language folks. Nothing there about purchasing or consumer rights. Just talks about reward points that can be exchanged for items in a game store that are accrued in the game program. I dont see the leap to the type of sub they may or may not have at the end of development.
This is absolutely ridiculous ... A game store in a beta game could mean a lot of things... But of course people find more easy to see what they want to see, instead of the truth.
The micro-transaction issue is one of the mayor issues in all the forums of this upcoming title... but what you see here has nothing to do with that. In game points that will not be able to change for real money could mean that some testers can think that because of the good job they made in the test run, they can get discounts on the actual retail game, or get the game for free, etc.
The in-game store can mean that if you do a good job testing you will earn more points that can be exchanged in the store for more powerful weapons or so, but all in the testing realm... Come on people that agreement was for the Test, and for that only. Be patience... the game developers are continuously seeing the forums and they will not do something that will go against they own people.
That's irrelevant. Let me explain why. There have been a few threads discussing this on the official boards. They reroute them to payment method poll. It's being considered no matter the meaning of the ToS. This speculation is far from lame.
P2P --> everybody pays the same, everybody gets the same
MT --> your gaming experience is shaped by the amount of disposable income you are willing to inject into the game
That is my major problem with MT, and the reason i would not like it to be the business model for TOR. It's funny, 'cause i actually went diagonally through the TOS, and spotted that "points" thingy but kinda ignored it ("nah, they wouldn't do that", i thought, "must be something else").
Now, it strikes me as odd that a game with so much alleged focus on story (hence, not on grinding and the associated higher need for good gear or other indispensable items) would go in that direction. While it is pretty much clear that there will be an in-game store of some sort, my guess is that it won't feature anything that would give players an edge in terms of gear, but rather customization options, possible expansions, etc (think Guild Wars in-game shop, for instance). Optional, non-gameplay enhancing goods for those willing to spend a few extra bucks for rather dispensable commodities and gimmicks.
But then again, things have been going a weird way, ever since EA got their filthy claws in Bioware's cookie jar (promotional videos for Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2, i'm looking right at you!)
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what it's all about. Personally, if it's not in the terms i delineated above, it's a dealbreaker for me, and i'll just wait for GW2 :)
I agree...and it's a shame, was looking forward to this game to go to from LotRO since it's lost it's uniqueness.
I agree...and it's a shame, was looking forward to this game to go to from LotRO since it's lost it's uniqueness.
Again, this is not confirmed. Don't stop looking forward to it.
Paying 15/m is however you see it. Still a major difference though. 15/m gives everybody the same content for one monthly payment, there are no strings attached, equality among all players. It has nothing to do with how much money you have, it has to do with playing a game for enjoyment, I don't know how you feel, but in an MMO I don't want major differences like this. I want everybody to have the same treatment, without having to go the extra mile such as paying real money. I'm sorta casual player I can make time to do raids and such, but wont if I run into other things, that's life. Giving in game alternatives that you achieve through dedication and skill looks better and feels more rewarding then forking out 55 bucks for a set of armor.
Past experience has nothing to do with this bro. It's not hard to look at the outcome of the situation. Do you seriously wanna be part of something like this? I have real life things I have to do with my money, I wont even involve the recession, with that aside, I have bills, and personal things to take care of. I find the time to play games through luck and friends/family not having anything scheduled. People are already happy with 15 bucks a month, people love to stick to what they are comfortable with, it's not strange, it's absolutely normal. RMTs of that scale push the boundaries in a large way.
The points you describe are a possibility, but the fact that BioWare has yet to debunk this gives us a reason to discuss. Discussion is a good thing. Until they clarify you can expect people to discuss what this could and couldn't mean.
My stance on this is impartial. I will pay $15 per month, I would pay nothing per month, I would pay $20 per month, if they offer it I’ll pay for a year, or I may even consider a life time. It really maters little to me. What does mater is if the game is fun, and whether I can play it as much as I want.
The problem I see with this game though is that it is based on huge IP (possibly one of the biggest), that reaches outside just the everyday gamers, as well as the everyday MMO players. I see some of the same things happening with TOR like what I saw with SWG. Lots of people who would want to try it, but can’t because A) PC specs are too high, or B) You have to pay to play it. BioWare recognizes (A) and has made it clear that they also believe the game should run on a wide range of systems. So how will they handle (B)? Give players many options?
They aren’t just making this game for MMO veterans, the only way to improve numbers is to bring new folks in. (Remember the discussion of “the mmo industry is this big, no it’s really this big”) Again, expect something new.
Back in 2003 when SWG was launched I remember reading my Local 501st forums and someone made a thread about SWG. Most people said, I want to play, but my computer can’t handle it, or it costs money to play it and I’m not paying to play it.
More evidence points to an alternate payment method being an option when you go back and figure out how to fix the KOTOR fan issue. These are folks who are very displeased over this being an MMO, they will need to get these folks on board as well, we can already see a few ways in which they are doing this with TOR. So what if say you could buy the box and say play parts of the game free?
I'm inclined to agree with the above statement - give me standard monthly subscriptions with no hidden extra charges - the developers can budget for their development costs and I can budget for my outlay.
If they insist on sticking their toe in the micro transactions quagmire then offer two methods of payment :-
1. Full monthly subscription that covers EVERYTHING in game with no extra charges at all.
2. Micro transactions with a reduced (or absent) monthly subscription for those who want to control their outlay for features they deem superfluous to their needs.
They won't be done responsibly. Not enough money in that.
I question the motives of posters who are trying to convince us that cash shops are just fine.
Edit: Let me be more specific on what I'm saying so there is no mass confusion about my motives here. I plan to play ToR, I acknowledge this rumor in the ToS does not specifically mean this will be a cash shop of any sort. At the same time, BioWare is considering "all" payment methods currently. RMT is a form of just that. This is all opinion, I respect yours. I admit I'm biased towards RMTs. I will stomach certain fluff in RMTs.
I will not speak for anybody else, I will represent myself. Specifically what I believe is, "if" BioWare consideres a gear based RMT I will not play, no matter how excellent the game may be. I love to be competitive in an MMO (PvP) and part of being a true compatitive player is to "earn" your way up, not to buy your status. No I'm not a hardcore player, I'm semi casual (whatever the hell that is). My arguement with you is not a hate on ToR, if anything I have supported the game since day one, and will continue to do so depending on the directions BioWare takes it. If BioWare implements a gear based RMT I will not hate/bash the game. I will respectfully go my own way.
And to further clarify, no Tilla I'm not bashing you "at all".
LA debunked that, it was on Kotaku a few months ago. They claimed it as a rumor but neve denied it either, but it remains still just that a rumor.
Shit you are right. I knew that too for some reason, i had that f2p micro transaction discussion still in my head when i remember it being debunked. sorry MikeB, proceed.
"Handled responsibly would you be willing to play Star Wars: The Old Republic with the inclusion of microtransactions". Absolutely not. Microtransations no pasaran!
I'm willing to bet MT bring in more money than sub-based. You reach more people and out of that you will get more that spend a few bucks here and there to get above someone else. The companies that are going MT know that human nature is competitive and that people will more than likely spend to "out do" others.
I see the arugment on both sides. These companies are in it to make money. If MT's get them more then that is what they are going to do. I see it coming for all MMO's in the future. So get used to it or don't play. I won't be.
same I just lost all interest in biowares immenent failure.Too bad i was hopin this would be the one that got me out of wow too.
In-game shops, no matter what, are never a good idea. Because it'll start with fluff and then expand to actual useable items just to ramp up revenue...5 points for a cute pet or 5pts for an armor piece; and getting the entire armor set will equate to say $10.00 USD worth of points....on top of the monthly fee that will probably be in place.
Not one to go around saying this but...anyone who backs the concept of Money -> In-game Items is an idiot. Once you open the MT-Door it's very hard to close it and eventually you'll be back here (any forum) complaining about how it's so hard to compete in X-game because the MT is allowing characters to buy OP gear and you can't afford it.
Knew it was to good to be true; a non-fucked up Star Wars game....
This will probably keep me away at first, and maybe permanently. I just got DDO, paid for their 'unlimited access', that cost $14.95 and canceled a week later. If this system is anywhere near as crap as that, forget it. Hopefully they won't have a broken system that makes you wait an indefinite amount of time for what you paid for like DDO with the response of, we know this is a bug and are working to fix it. MY money was gone right now but I have to wait to use what I paid for? No chance. Actually made me hate MTs period. Just tell me how much it cost to play the game and definitely let me know how much I still won't have before my money leaves my hand or I won't bother.
As long as the mt is cosemtic stuff only I will not mind, I don't need the fluff. What makes me happy is the gameplay and how well it runs.
However if they offer weapons, skills, armor, combat enhancement items that is where I will walk away for real cash, I cant compete with the jones, nor will I even try.
I see a lot of people making this same point, but I don't agree. It's all horse armor to me. Withholding content that would have otherwise been included in the regular monthly fee, simply to sell it separately is enough reason for me not to play a game. It doesn't matter to me whether or not it gives anyone a competitive advantage. these games are generally about the acquisition of loot and character customization, charging extra for these things is BS. Western MMO players have generally been against RMT, and have spoken clearly with their subscription dollars on the subject. If we decide now that it's OK to withhold some loot and sell it to us for a few bucks more, then we may as well all just get prepared to pay 30 bucks a month for the exact same amount of content we now get for 15.
You ASSUME it is going to be RMT + sub, which does not have to be true.
Just look at DDO. You can sub and you can go with F2P. Problem solved. For those who want everything, sub it. For those who want pieces of the content, go with F2P. Perfect solution.
Unfortunately I don't have the links to this anymore but I don't find this shocking at all. I vaguely remember one of the Devs accidentally mentioning something about this very early on after SW:TOR was announced and then Bioware started backpeddling about the issue because there was a huge shitstorm after it was mentioned. Now, if they do something similar to the way Champions has done their in game store then I'm fine with it. You can buy little fun extras such as pets/toys etc. but you cannot buy anything that helps or enhances you in game. If this game offers players the ability to buy xp, xp bonuses, items, or enhancements that aid players like that then I won't touch this game for any reason. It's bad enough that you pay $60 for the game, another $15 or more to play each month, and then you're going to charge me for shit I should have a chance at like everyone else. Nah, they can suck my **** if they think I'm falling for that crap. Only time will tell I suppose but the more I hear about this game, the more I hear in my head "I have a bad feeling about this."
My sentiments exactly.
Lets just hope they don't go overboard with it like SOE has with the stupid TCG loot cards. Really pisses me off that items we have asked for for so long require you to participate and spend 100s of dollars tcg cards just to get the items. And even then your chances are low on getting what you want.
I think a good example of how it might work out is like how EA has set it up for Sims 3. The MT's don't keep you from playing the game, but if you don't buy some of the stuff, you can miss out on some pretty cool stuff. My biggest concern is that they do NOT use MT's for gear, that quickly unbalances a game where skill no longer matters but how much money your willing to spend.
You want a larger player house (there is a rumor about that I guess)? Cool....spend x number of dollars and go for it. want a different colored lightsaber crystal? cool...again spend x number of dollars for it.
You want +20 health, +40 attack armour? Earn it through gameplay dammit!
The MT model is tricky and it seems the major argument "for" it -- to bring more people to the game -- didn't work when SOE used that excuse for the NGE and it won't work for BioWare, either.
Personally, I don't think BioWare is at all worried about numbers -- anyone who knows anything about this hobby knows for a fact that SW:TOR will blow everything else out of the water. My God, when they announced they were taking closed beta applications, the response was so literally overwhelming, the server crashed.
My take of these "points" and "store" will be more along the lines of awarding "points" in game as rewards which would be spent in the "store" for some innocuous in game items and maybe even real items, such as hats and t-shirts.
I'm sure we'll hear all about it from BioWare eventually.
But I'm old school too -- if SW:TOR introduces RMT for important in game items such as weapons, armor, kits and the like, the effective range of that concept is zero meters.
No.
No, I wouldn't play that game if it includes micro-transactions. Boo-yah Bioware !!
Just hope its a misunderstanding and/or copy & paste error, lol.
NO to microtransactions!