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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » Is this what SWTOR should have been when it comes to space and planets?

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40 posts found
  Raijukin

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 65

 
OP  10/06/12 2:54:45 PM#1
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/06/12 3:02:51 PM#2
Originally posted by Raijukin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3muhlQYFgLE&feature=relmfu

Sweet, I saw that video when it was posted on the swtor forums last year or so.  I forgot the name of the project engine.

 

Thanks .. amazing video!

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 586

10/06/12 3:05:49 PM#3

Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

 

But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/06/12 3:18:40 PM#4
Originally posted by bingbongbros

Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

 

But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

They would need to use multiple engines in a single game.  EverQuest 1 did that back in the day - zoning to areas in the new expansion The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000) would load an entirely new graphics engine.  The new engine allowed capabilities like swaying trees, which is funny to look back on, because the trees would just go through different still images as they swayed lol - but they looked nice from a distance.  Older zones would revert back to the original engine.

 

Using multiple engines is possible.  Given that SWTOR seems to want to reload the entire game everytime you change zones, I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.


ref:

Amazon sales info for Ruins of Kunark:

http://www.amazon.com/EverQuest-The-Ruins-Kunark-Pc/dp/B00004NS01

Graphically EverQuest has always been the leader of the MMORPGs, though Asheron's Call did have superior environmental graphics until RoK was released. With the release of RoK, EverQuest now uses two seperate graphics engines. The "Old World," which consists of the lands contained in the original game, still use the original graphics engine, which is now 3-4 years old, because the publisher, Verant Interactive, couldn't legally change the system requirements once the game was released. However, the "New World," which consists of the lands added in the expansion, use a brand new graphics engine. The result is that the quality of graphics varies within the game. The Old World is kind of mediocre by today's standards while the New World looks very, very nice.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  SneakyRussian

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 56

10/06/12 3:22:10 PM#5
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by bingbongbros

Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

 

But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

They would need to use multiple engines in a single game.  EverQuest 1 did that back in the day - zoning to areas in a new expansion would actually load an entirely different "enhanced" engine. I think it was The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000), but I could be wrong with the exact expansion.  The new engine allowed capabilities like swaying trees, which is funny to look back on, because the trees would just go through different still images as they swayed lol - but they looked nice from a distance.

 

Using multiple engines is possible.  Given that SWTOR seems to want to reload the entire game everytime you change zones, I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Let's make a key note here, it would have been possible using mulitple engines BECAUSE they used HERO engine for their craptastic sRPG part. However, it wouldn't be feasible as the logistics are insane to combine two engines like that.

 

Infinity: The Quest for Earth (which is what that video is, a tech demo from april of 2010) has the right idea in terms of what an MMORPG should be. SWTOR was going back in time to 2005 with the StarWars IP, only not awesome like SWG :|.

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

10/06/12 3:27:26 PM#6

That tech demo has floated around quite heavily for awhile now.

Even with that in SW:TOR the game would still have a terrible ground game and a linear storyline that runs your head-first into a dead-end wall.

That tech demo, is what SWG 2 needed.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/06/12 3:29:33 PM#7
Originally posted by SneakyRussian
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by bingbongbros

Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

 

But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

They would need to use multiple engines in a single game.  EverQuest 1 did that back in the day - zoning to areas in a new expansion would actually load an entirely different "enhanced" engine. I think it was The Ruins of Kunark (April 2000), but I could be wrong with the exact expansion.  The new engine allowed capabilities like swaying trees, which is funny to look back on, because the trees would just go through different still images as they swayed lol - but they looked nice from a distance.

 

Using multiple engines is possible.  Given that SWTOR seems to want to reload the entire game everytime you change zones, I guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Let's make a key note here, it would have been possible using mulitple engines BECAUSE they used HERO engine for their craptastic sRPG part. However, it wouldn't be feasible as the logistics are insane to combine two engines like that.

 

Infinity: The Quest for Earth (which is what that video is, a tech demo from april of 2010) has the right idea in terms of what an MMORPG should be. SWTOR was going back in time to 2005 with the StarWars IP, only not awesome like SWG :|.

I added some source info.  It might be a very innovative concept, but this is Star Wars.  Make it happen.  Star Wars was founded on innovation in a believable universe.

 

Actually if the new engine were better than the alpha Hero Engine that EA bought, then that would still bring life back to SWTOR.  EA would license the Infinity engine, and during execution, unload Hero and reload Infinity, while passing key arrays of variables (character info).

 

Infinity wants business, EA wants business.  Win / Win ?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1051

10/06/12 3:35:46 PM#8
Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/06/12 3:45:34 PM#9
Originally posted by Galadourn
Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

I would imagine that Infinity would love if their engine hit mainstream though, so perhaps they would be willing to assist with the tricky parts.  There can't possibly be a huge market for a space flight sim without any functionality, so Infinity is likely interested in selling their invention, licensing it, and modifying it so it has a high market value.

 

Unless they just want to sell it to governments to assist with some kind of flight training, in which case we should all be sad.

 

btw, I'm not familiar with a procedurally generated game world.  What does this mean? thanks in advance.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

10/06/12 3:50:51 PM#10
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

That tech demo has floated around quite heavily for awhile now.

Even with that in SW:TOR the game would still have a terrible ground game and a linear storyline that runs your head-first into a dead-end wall.

That tech demo, is what SWG 2 needed.

yes, agreed

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7248

10/06/12 3:54:39 PM#11
such a shame that they tacked on that star fox side game.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1051

10/06/12 3:58:36 PM#12
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Galadourn
Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

I would imagine that Infinity would love if their engine hit mainstream though, so perhaps they would be willing to assist with the tricky parts.  There can't possibly be a huge market for a space flight sim without any functionality, so Infinity is likely interested in selling their invention, licensing it, and modifying it so it has a high market value.

 

Unless they just want to sell it to governments to assist with some kind of flight training, in which case we should all be sad.

 

btw, I'm not familiar with a procedurally generated game world.  What does this mean? thanks in advance.

Well, Infinity hasn't invented the wheel when it comes to procedurally generated landscape. These programs have been around for some time now. They offer immense data compression capabilities, however (and I'm no programmer), I would imagine that that's all that they can do - generate terrain with a given set of physics rules applicable to the entire 'map'.

Now in a MMORPG you have objects that behave differently - quest objects, NPCs etc - and I don't know how feasible it would be to have these on top of a procedurally generated landscape. Something tells me it's not easy to do - if at all doable.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  sfc1971

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 423

10/06/12 4:01:23 PM#13

Sorry, NO.

The engine looks like a pretty pony but a one trick pony. 

To lazy to look up the name but the company behind the engine that powers Dayz made a "real" world in which you could land almost realistic aircraft on real runways. It also allowed ground combat. This meant you had to deal with missions in which you had to run along a runway several kilometers long and that is a small airport.

The video shows you decending while crossing what would be the size of a continent. What is filling that continent? Where are the ground players? 

There are WW2 combat MMO's where you can be in a plane of driving a truck but it appeals only to the hard core because ultimately the truck driver is driving for long hours along boring empty roads with nothing happening until a tornado bomber blows him up in a milli-second. 

Star Wars Galaxies had procedurally generated worlds and for the most part they were completely empty of players. Activity revolved around a single hub, a single town on a single planet.

Want further proof? Bioware's space RPG, the planet exploration missions. Considered so bad in the original they skipped them in the sequels. 

That decent looks fun once, the second time you go "seen it" and by the 100th time you are raging at your screen to get on with it and stop wasting your time. 

A true open exploration space game COULD work, but it would attract the kind of people who play Flight simulators, the kind that don't go pew-pew.

It is nice to fantasize about a game that can combine ground, air and space combat seemlessly but it would create a very specilist type of game.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/06/12 4:11:04 PM#14
Originally posted by sfc1971

Sorry, NO.

The engine looks like a pretty pony but a one trick pony. 

To lazy to look up the name but the company behind the engine that powers Dayz made a "real" world in which you could land almost realistic aircraft on real runways. It also allowed ground combat. This meant you had to deal with missions in which you had to run along a runway several kilometers long and that is a small airport.

The video shows you decending while crossing what would be the size of a continent. What is filling that continent? Where are the ground players? 

There are WW2 combat MMO's where you can be in a plane of driving a truck but it appeals only to the hard core because ultimately the truck driver is driving for long hours along boring empty roads with nothing happening until a tornado bomber blows him up in a milli-second. 

Star Wars Galaxies had procedurally generated worlds and for the most part they were completely empty of players. Activity revolved around a single hub, a single town on a single planet.

Want further proof? Bioware's space RPG, the planet exploration missions. Considered so bad in the original they skipped them in the sequels. 

That decent looks fun once, the second time you go "seen it" and by the 100th time you are raging at your screen to get on with it and stop wasting your time. 

A true open exploration space game COULD work, but it would attract the kind of people who play Flight simulators, the kind that don't go pew-pew.

It is nice to fantasize about a game that can combine ground, air and space combat seemlessly but it would create a very specilist type of game.

It comes down to what SW fans want.  Non-stop action? naw.  Realism in sci-fantasy, as we know SW? sure.  SWTOR did try realism with docking to a ship, going to an air hanger, then going to the planet.  But what killed the idea .. was it the concept or the incessent loading screens, while traveling through the exact same hanger every damn time, no matter what planet you were on?  A new form of a game engine could only benefit SWTOR.

 

Also with Infinity, you wouldn't necessarily go through the exact same entry point every time.  You would have a choice of how you approached a landing site.  The only changing aspect would be how you approached the planet.  Every time you entered the atmosphere, it would be different.  Hell sometimes you could crash :P

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

10/06/12 4:13:41 PM#15

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2585

10/06/12 4:17:13 PM#16
Originally posted by bingbongbros

Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

 

But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

Well, no one should have expected quality from Bioware after the last 5 years or so of mediocre games.

And Bioware only ever makes linear singleplayer RPGs, I don't know why anyone expected a real MMO from them.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6747

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

10/06/12 4:20:05 PM#17

Well only remotely like that lol.

IMO Space type MMO`s SHOULD be the ultimate gaming genre,however nobody and i mean nobody is going to spend the dollars and time to give the genre what is deserves.

The efforts i have seen are absolutley abysmal,yes including Eve,not even 25% of what the genre should contain.Even in thaqt video the cockpit is extremely low detail,the planet is just a generated planet and the ship is extremely low detail.

LOD is what MOST games lack.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

10/06/12 4:26:09 PM#18
Would've made a good Firefly game.
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

10/06/12 4:32:31 PM#19
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by bingbongbros

Yes and YES! If Bioware had been able to make this space travel then the game would of destroyed the shit out of everyone.

 

But it would be literally impossible for them to know how to even do this with their craptastic engine.

Well, no one should have expected quality from Bioware after the last 5 years or so of mediocre games.

And Bioware only ever makes linear singleplayer RPGs, I don't know why anyone expected a real MMO from them.

EA bought BioWare in 2007.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-buying-bioware-pandemic-for-860m-6180818

 

So really you mean no one should have expected quality from EA.  They produce mediocre games.

 

I could only hope this changes, especially when dealing with Star Wars. /sigh

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2771

10/06/12 4:37:16 PM#20
Originally posted by Galadourn
Infinity uses a procedurally generated game world. And that's a bit tricky when it comes to placing objects and tying them with quests, etc in a MMORPG. SWTOR should have been a different game to make full use of this technology.

Yeah it's a pipe dream right now for MMOs.  It's just not feasible.

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