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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » Trent Oster Thinks Fans Negativity and EA Drove Muzyka and Zeschuk from Bioware

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187 posts found
  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4143

Trolls will be ignored

9/29/12 1:56:45 PM#161
Originally posted by jerlot65
 

Listen, I'm not saying SWTOR is a great game and the fans are wrong.  What i am saying is in general, MMO fans, at least teh one who cant find a mmo they like, exxagerate how bad games are.  They cite bugs/graphics/ and all other kinds of stuff and the only solutions they give are mostly ones that cannot be done because of technical limitations. 

They also tend to forget that not all MMOs are meant to cater to them. If you hate themeparks, emphasis on story, cutscenes and linear gameplay then TOR was not targeted towards you and if you bought it expecting somthing different than that then it was your fault and not Bioware's.  That would be just as silly as a player who buys Darkfall and then complains about being jumped and looted, which by the way DID happen. Some players really need to learn how to be smart consumers. 

Is SWTOR a failure?  Yes, because they set such high expectations on the game and did not meet those expectations, in my eyes, they failed.  But would I call the game horrible?  No.  Would I call the game a completed disaster, No.

I agree. I don't think the game is horrible by any means. I just wish Bioware had released the game as a single player coop and avoided this genre and its fanatics all together. 

The graphics are fine, the gameplay is fine.  If you  took  the hype and scope of this game away and compared it to other video games, this game rocks.  But because of the expectations and just based on the fans of this genre, this game appears to be the worst game ever made.

The mentality of a lot of people here is basically "I hate the game, therefore it must fail." Misery loves company. 

So to say the two docs may have left due to fan negativity is very possible.  But not because of how crappy SWTOR, but because it wasnt popular and that the fans are so bitter.

And for me, I could never be a game developer.  Becuase to spend years of my life dedicated to creating something.  And then haev that something be crapped on by people who are so bitter as to exaggerate the negatives and be so disrepctful to teh devs.  i couldnt handle it.  i would want to jump thru the screnn.

Me too. Gamers have always been a little passionate about their favorite hobby, but the MMO fanatics are sometimes worse than fans of NFL franchises. At least the NFL fans ROOT for their home team and don't wish for them to fail. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/29/12 2:13:00 PM#162
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by jerlot65
 

Listen, I'm not saying SWTOR is a great game and the fans are wrong.  What i am saying is in general, MMO fans, at least teh one who cant find a mmo they like, exxagerate how bad games are.  They cite bugs/graphics/ and all other kinds of stuff and the only solutions they give are mostly ones that cannot be done because of technical limitations. 

They also tend to forget that not all MMOs are meant to cater to them. If you hate themeparks, emphasis on story, cutscenes and linear gameplay then TOR was not targeted towards you and if you bought it expecting somthing different than that then it was your fault and not Bioware's.  That would be just as silly as a player who buys Darkfall and then complains about being jumped and looted, which by the way DID happen. Some players really need to learn how to be smart consumers. 

Is SWTOR a failure?  Yes, because they set such high expectations on the game and did not meet those expectations, in my eyes, they failed.  But would I call the game horrible?  No.  Would I call the game a completed disaster, No.

I agree. I don't think the game is horrible by any means. I just wish Bioware had released the game as a single player coop and avoided this genre and its fanatics all together. 

The graphics are fine, the gameplay is fine.  If you  took  the hype and scope of this game away and compared it to other video games, this game rocks.  But because of the expectations and just based on the fans of this genre, this game appears to be the worst game ever made.

The mentality of a lot of people here is basically "I hate the game, therefore it must fail." Misery loves company. 

So to say the two docs may have left due to fan negativity is very possible.  But not because of how crappy SWTOR, but because it wasnt popular and that the fans are so bitter.

And for me, I could never be a game developer.  Becuase to spend years of my life dedicated to creating something.  And then haev that something be crapped on by people who are so bitter as to exaggerate the negatives and be so disrepctful to teh devs.  i couldnt handle it.  i would want to jump thru the screnn.

Me too. Gamers have always been a little passionate about their favorite hobby, but the MMO fanatics are sometimes worse than fans of NFL franchises. At least the NFL fans ROOT for their home team and don't wish for them to fail. 

 

So 1.5 million people are dumb consumers, and 500k are smart?

I do not mind themeparks, and I like story, cutscenes and linear gameplay. The main problem with SWTOR is just that it did not get much attention from the devs as it is basically restrictive without much enhancement and its design is more of a console / single player with multiplayer options type game than a themepark MMO worth spending $15 per month. Story, cutscenes and linear gameplay does not suit a MMO

They should have made it like Red Dead Redemption or Mass Effect 3, where the main single player game was story, and that other players could drop in and play co-op with you, and then have Operations, Flashpoints and Warzones as the multiplayer gameplay, and then every few months dish out some DLC.

SWTOR at the end of the day is not a MMO like WOW or LOTRO.

  mxbx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/08
Posts: 48

9/29/12 6:25:04 PM#163
Originally posted by smh_alot
Originally posted by mxbx

On the other hand, Bioware's decision to emphasize story over gameplay was rational, because Bioware never has been very good at gameplay.  The problem is, mmos are all about gameplay

Lucasarts just gave the IP to the wrong studio. 

 

This is complete and utter nonsense. I've played BG to KOTOR to DA to ME, I had little problem with the gameplay in those games. In fact, they were games that managed to combine good story with fun gameplay. But hey, whatever, to each their own, I guess.

Bioware games have always been radically unbalanced and far too easy, with gameplay that could never stand on its own apart from the attractions of story and rpg elements.  Case-in-point: how well is ME3 multiplayer doing? 

  Velocinox

Elite Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 635

9/29/12 7:29:43 PM#164
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Velocinox

I'll buy that. Star Wars fans are bat shizz crazy. You couldn't possibly make them happy.

Meh... MEhhhh (jerry lewis nerd voice) but buuuut... Jedi are like gawds.. they can force pull a staaaarship. meh, meeeeeh.

But buuut, you made Jedi the only class anyone wants to play, they are too powerful, meh meeeeeeh...

Why did you nerf jedi, they have to be GAWDLYKE! I'm quitting!! meh meeeeeeh!!

 

Anybody that buys star wars as the greatest 'sci fi' of our generation is gulping the kool aid by the barrels.

 

Actually your assertion is quie incorrect.

People were quite happy with SWG pre NGE, even when Jedi back then was not an easily obtainable thing.

Funny how everytime the make a star wars mmo more "Jedi-ly", the shitter it gets and the more pissed off fans are.

I think people just prefer playing smugglers vs bounty hunters end of the day.

"People" That's not very exact.

I would say at least as many people tried SWG at launch and hated it, as there were that subscribed. At least.

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2758

9/29/12 7:35:03 PM#165
Poor releases earn negative reactions from the players.  It's really a case of not delivering.
  Gormogon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 155

9/30/12 1:05:26 AM#166

I think it's unfortunate that Trent Oster would put himself in a position where people feel like he's speaking for the doctors in blaming the fans.  Nobody will care about his comment when Beamdog releases BGEE, but people will remember it if/when the docs return and start up a new company with some of the cash EA paid them for BioWare after the non-compete is up.

 

I would add that BioWare's relationship and interaction with many of its fans took a turn for the worse well before TOR turned out to suck ... the landscap and dev-fan relationship has changed since BioWare's successful games of the late 90s/early 00s, and the people of that generation at BioWare did not necessarily evolve in the right directions to stay "hip".  Instead a number of them looked like ever more condescending gods deigning to step down from their throne and tell the people, "It's your fault for screwing it up, not ours." 

 

 

 

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

9/30/12 2:29:40 AM#167
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Link

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

 

I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

I'd say the article is dead wrong.  People RESIGN when things go wrong.  They RETIRE when things go right!

Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  NagilumSadow

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 242

9/30/12 5:23:46 AM#168
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by kalrhael

It's just sad. 

The only sad thing is that SWG was shut down, a 10 year older game with a 10 times better concept.

I don' t care about these "gaming gods" never played anything from Bioware except SWTOR.

 


This has nothing to do with the bugfest that was SWG. 

Plus, your ignorance is showing.

It isn't his ignorance that is showing.  You see, with SWG they were trying to innovate, and innovation represents a higher level of complexity. TOR, on the other hand, had the ambivalence of retrospect to draw upon and still totally, in every way, failed.


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

9/30/12 5:29:31 AM#169
Originally posted by NagilumSadow
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Yakamomoto
Originally posted by kalrhael

It's just sad. 

The only sad thing is that SWG was shut down, a 10 year older game with a 10 times better concept.

I don' t care about these "gaming gods" never played anything from Bioware except SWTOR.

 


This has nothing to do with the bugfest that was SWG. 

Plus, your ignorance is showing.

It isn't his ignorance that is showing.  You see, with SWG they were trying to innovate, and innovation represents a higher level of complexity. TOR, on the other hand, had the ambivalence of retrospect to draw upon and still totally, in every way, failed.

I love it when people say SWTOR failed.  Failed what?  Failed to create a story drive MMO?  No.  Failed to create a loyal player base?  No.  Failed in creating a Star Wars theme?  No.  Failed to create the #2 sub based MMO in existence?  No.

SWTOR only failed in some people's minds because they had some really bizarre expectations.  Chat bubbles?  Sitting in chairs?  Useless!

Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

9/30/12 5:47:54 AM#170
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Sitting in chairs?  Useless!

Having my morning coffee.

Thanks for ruining my computer screen!

  NagilumSadow

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 242

9/30/12 5:52:23 AM#171
Originally posted by Souldrainer
I love it when people say SWTOR failed.  Failed what?  Failed to create a story drive MMO?  No.  Failed to create a loyal player base?  No.  Failed in creating a Star Wars theme?  No.  Failed to create the #2 sub based MMO in existence?  No.

SWTOR only failed in some people's minds because they had some really bizarre expectations.  Chat bubbles?  Sitting in chairs?  Useless!

 

 

I don't consider what they produced story-driven. What they actually produceed was a timeline what gave you the illustion of choice, rather than true innovation. However, it was all an obfucastion and you had no choice.   I have said this before, but what they tried to do was create was a low-maintenance cash cow. Some people get it, some do not.

 

As for the loyal following -- generally speaking, all of the quality players have left. They figured it out and chose not to be insulted.


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1182

9/30/12 6:11:33 AM#172
Originally posted by Souldrainer

snip

I love it when people say SWTOR failed.  Failed what?  Failed to create a story drive MMO?  No.  Failed to create a loyal player base?  No.  Failed in creating a Star Wars theme?  No.  Failed to create the #2 sub based MMO in existence?  No.

SWTOR only failed in some people's minds because they had some really bizarre expectations.  Chat bubbles?  Sitting in chairs?  Useless!

Failed to create a story driven MMO .... Bioware created a story yes; not necessarily an mmo though.

Created a loyal player base? To early to say.

Creating a Star Wars theme - OK.

Created the #2 sub based MMO in existence. Stop buying into the day 1 hype. Even on day 1 it was only true for the western market and you excluded titles like e.g. CoD (people pay a sub for the mmo part of several games these days). Today - maybe, maybe not. Come November-ish it will be lost in the noise.

Financially SWTOR has failed to deliver. EA shareholders are not interested in story they are interested in $$$. As head of a large part of EA that has now released several financially sub-par titles the Docs failed to deliver. And there has to be a question over the whole of EA Bioware. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

9/30/12 7:05:13 AM#173
They failed to create a star wars theme imo

Mailboxes!
Heal bot han solo alikes!
Tanking boba fett alikes!
Inabilty to travel by vehicle on a planet unless you've walked there first!
Having to manually walk / fly half way around the universe to tell people you've completed a task!

Badly done more linear wow in space.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

9/30/12 7:07:59 AM#174
Another thing, these non compete clause don't hold in the EU. what's to stop them moving to say the UK and starting a new company.
  halflife25

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/13/12
Posts: 787

9/30/12 7:10:29 AM#175
Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Maybe they shouldn't have made a shitty game.

I don't feel bad for them.  Not one damn bit.

You shouldn't. They are rolling in money and i believe they are actually happy to leave EA.

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

9/30/12 11:43:40 AM#176


Originally posted by superniceguy
All the troubles started when they joined EA. There could have been no negativity if they were not with EA. EA are the root cause

^ I would have to go with this. It all started with the EA merge.


  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

9/30/12 11:48:50 AM#177


Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by Sevenstar61 Link http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/   I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.
I'd say the article is dead wrong.  People RESIGN when things go wrong.  They RETIRE when things go right!


Oh is that why Jason West & Vince Zampella left Infinity Ward?


  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1318

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

9/30/12 12:30:05 PM#178
It's hard to find fault in the article. It's quite obvious, and it has been obvious for quite some time, that SWTOR wasn't going to be able to deliver what it was supposed to. Though "fan negativity", to me, translates more as player refusing to further pay the subscription. The fan negativity wouldn't have been the deciding factor had 4M players still been paying the sub. It's the cold hard numbers, not the "fan negativity" unless you read it as "massive fan negativity and nearly all of them hitting EA where it hurts by closing their wallet".

  Darth-Batman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 707

Bruce, I am your father.

9/30/12 12:35:49 PM#179
It seems pretty simple they offered a watered-down and generic version of a product that the fans have an unrealistic expectation of to begin with, how many outcomes could there possibly be?
  Aeolron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/24/11
Posts: 664

Everyones a mmo vet these days :P

10/01/12 3:35:20 AM#180
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
We got new operation few days ago and new warzone in coming. Makeb is coming. So we getting new stuff.

That should have been in months ago, with 1.2, they are just spreading content out to keep players playing, as can not afford to create new stuff now

Also all that content is what you have to pay for. Me personally am not interested in Operation and Warzones, it is just more of the same.

So... the only game which has to have unlimited content or be hated is SWTOR. Show me any game that released within one year that does not have problem with content after 9 months after release.

People burn through content and get bored. Normal in every MMO. Play other game until content arrives. Simple as that.

There has not been any real new content to SWTOR since 1.1 until 1.4. Makeb was already done beforehand. What do you think took them all these years to do. They said when the game created they had about 2 years worth of content already done, ready to implement to feed the masses.

Their plan was to add Operations / Flashpoints / Warzones with each new update. They have been vacant in 1.2 and 1.3

The main problem though is the game is just not expanding. What you see is what you get.

LOTRO had no housing, skirmishes etc to start with, that got added later, expanding the game

SWG had no vehicles, space, player cities, chronicles system, Heroics etc when it got released, it got added later expanding the game

STO had no ability to see your insides of your ship to begin with, at first it was your bridge, then the rest of the ship, then they added Duty Officers you could see in your ship and interact with.

If this was SWTOR, none of those MMOs would have gotten all those features, just the content / more story.

What would be good in SWTOR would be for them to make your ship like a house so you could put stuff in it, and operate a shop, or maybe a story creator or maybe a Beast master profession, but that is not going to happen, because the game can not be expanded upon

 Dead wrong there my friend , when SWG launched it had , Player cities , player housing , mounts ( Come on no mounts in a sandboxworld?? What you smoking?) , if your going to compare one game with another you might want to try and research it if you never played it ,and clearly thats the case here.

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