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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » Trent Oster Thinks Fans Negativity and EA Drove Muzyka and Zeschuk from Bioware

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187 posts found
  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1008

9/28/12 7:56:30 PM#61
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

The worst thing that happened to SWTOR was that SoE got rid of SWG.

I've heard several players in SWTOR mentioning that they know players who were saying that they will do everything possible to kill SWTOR so the fate of these games will be the same...

Not saying that all SWG players are like these... but I wish SWG was still available....

SWG was dead long before swtor. NGE killed SWG, getting rid of it really made no difference - it is not as if it has a massive playerbase anymore after NGE (before NGE the population was quite big, for that period, which was before WoW became a juggernaut).

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

9/28/12 8:00:55 PM#62
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Sevenstar61
We got new operation few days ago and new warzone in coming. Makeb is coming. So we getting new stuff.

That should have been in months ago, with 1.2, they are just spreading content out to keep players playing, as can not afford to create new stuff now

Also all that content is what you have to pay for. Me personally am not interested in Operation and Warzones, it is just more of the same.

So... the only game which has to have unlimited content or be hated is SWTOR. Show me any game that released within one year that does not have problem with content after 9 months after release.

People burn through content and get bored. Normal in every MMO. Play other game until content arrives. Simple as that.

I don't think you understand, content isn't the problem. Its the game's engine, format, style, same old themepark. Huge disappointment. You think 1.4 will bring me back? gotta be a joke, 1.4 won't bring people back. Funny how they spent so much money on the game and ultimately failed.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

9/28/12 8:01:05 PM#63

What more probably pushed them is the bad results of TOR. It was them or EA CEO.

 

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2265

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 8:02:32 PM#64
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by superniceguy

 The fact that 1.5 million people ditched the game means it is a bad game, not us few saying it is a bad game, and the majority of them just quit without saying a bad word, as apparently the forums are only the vocal minority.

Wonder how he explains SWG's demise?  Or was that not a "bad game"?

SWG held on to its full 26 servers for 6 years, then lost about 50%

SWTOR held on to its 200 servers for 9 months, and now has 20 servers, losing 90& of the servers

SWG had 3 expansions, SWTORs failure now means it is not having an expansion

SWTOR will have updates, same as SWG did with the biggest being Hoth in 2008, but it will not have an expansion like JTL, Rage of the Wookiees or Trials of Obi-Wan

SWG was a troubled game, and had its ups and downs, but it mass load of (unique) fetaures is what attracted many people, and at the end it was not a bad game after all. SWTOR was a shell of what SWG had. SWG = SWTOR + Player housing + Beast Master + Chronicles + Entertainers + Multiplayer space + sandbox gameplay

SWG got shut down because LA forced the issue. When they announced the shut down, it had 4 FULL servers with the rest m medium to light. SWTOR was going to be their golden goose, and any subs SWG had would have been nothing to what they thought SWTOR was going to get, and players would just migrate from SWG to SWTOR.

If they knew that SWTOR would not have loads of subs by this time, I doubt they would have shut down SWG.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2764

9/28/12 8:03:10 PM#65
Originally posted by Xzen
EA/Bioware delivered exactly what they said they would. It's a quality themepark mmorpg that follows the WoW model (Not ment as an insult). I gave it a 7.5 even though I didn't buy it after beta. Don't understand why SWTOR is getting such a bad rep.

They actually failed on delivering a solid WOW clone.  They had small worlds with little life to them.  A single planet sequence to the level cap.  Unranked team PVP.  No group finder.

 

It's like they made bullet points of Vanilla WOW and forgot about the small things that really helped make Vanilla WOW popular.  Then they forgot to include things modern WOW made mandatory for theme park MMOs, especially WOW clones.

 

SWTOR was a poorly designed game and that falls on the "Doctors".  Maybe they lost touch with the industry or lost the drive to make amazing games.

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

9/28/12 8:04:26 PM#66
Originally posted by Deewe

What more probably pushed them is the bad results of TOR. It was them or EA CEO.

 

They probably left with fustration that the high expectations that they had, weren't meant same as the player's high expectations weren't meant. all from fustration.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Velocinox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 642

9/28/12 8:04:37 PM#67

I'll buy that. Star Wars fans are bat shizz crazy. You couldn't possibly make them happy.

Meh... MEhhhh (jerry lewis nerd voice) but buuuut... Jedi are like gawds.. they can force pull a staaaarship. meh, meeeeeh.

But buuut, you made Jedi the only class anyone wants to play, they are too powerful, meh meeeeeeh...

Why did you nerf jedi, they have to be GAWDLYKE! I'm quitting!! meh meeeeeeh!!

 

Anybody that buys star wars as the greatest 'sci fi' of our generation is gulping the kool aid by the barrels.

 

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1693

9/28/12 8:08:16 PM#68

As long as crap games keep being release I fully support players using every means necessary to provide feedback to the developers. These companies need to wake up and make the games players want and to stop trying to copy outdated models in an attempt to boost quarterly returns. 

 

Mmo's are a different beast. They take years to mature and are entirely supported by the community. Nurture the community and your game developes as a result ... not the other way around. Developers have forgotten this along the way. 

 

I am going to let the developers of mmo's in on a little secret ... get real close and listen up mega-corps:

 

The MMO part in MMORPG is nothing more than a tag signifying a distinction between regular rpg's and those that are persistantly online. The MMO part isn't a genre or any sort of individual entity completely seperate from RPGs. These games are RPGs ... not MMOs or any other name you want to call them. They are a TYPE of RPG. Just like a rottweiler and a german shepherd are dogs. They are not different species ... they are still #$%&ing dogs! Is this clear enough big bad ass developers/distributors who seem to advertise how big their brains are? Seems like it should be a pretty simple concept. All mmo's now seem to be made forcing players into chasing bread crumbs. It should be the players shaping the games, not the other way around. This is exactly how an rpg works and yet has been completely forgotten by the industry.

 

Another not so little secret: The moment the industry dropped RPG from MMORPG is the moment the genre died. Game developers instantly lost there way from that point forward. The big meeting that occured something like a decade ago that recoined the term made it sound as if the industry finally recognized the impact mmorpg's were creating and made it sound like good and big things were to come. I now know they were simple quantifying the success of EQ and others (Wow was just on the horizon during this time I believe) and finding ways to suck as much money out of gamers in the shortest possible time. It was a power grab from by the big companies to dominate the new genre including it's development. They reshaped how game developing and distribution would work. It was inevitable of course as all big busness does it but mmorpg's were the trigger.  Fans of the genre have suffered every since.

 

There are some anomalies however. One such is Skyrim. Here is a game players absolutely loved that offered freedom for the player to do what they want yet is a single player game. In the digital cesspool we call online rpg gaming one company gets it right. Yet, somehow, we still see "on rails" mmo's coming out every few months. The heart of the point to this is that this is what an rpg is supposed to be. It doesn't need to be called a sandbox or any other term denoting a difference. Mmorpgs should never have had drifted away from it's core concept to begin with. This is why SOE's John Smedley expressing interest in the "sandbox" methodology actually gives me hope that things may change (this and all the failures of late). The fact it is SOE saying this blows my #$^&ing mind though.

You stay sassy!

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2265

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 8:09:40 PM#69
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

The worst thing that happened to SWTOR was that SoE got rid of SWG.

I've heard several players in SWTOR mentioning that they know players who were saying that they will do everything possible to kill SWTOR so the fate of these games will be the same...

Not saying that all SWG players are like these... but I wish SWG was still available....

 

 

Lack of content / things to do is what killed SWTOR. SWTOR killed SWTOR. SWG players did not need to do a thing to try and kill it, unless SWG players used jedi mind trick, waving hand saying "You will not play SWTOR. You hate the game, and will cancel your sub!"

If SWG was still active I would sub both, and not be finsihed with SWTOR by now

 

 

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1008

9/28/12 8:09:51 PM#70
Originally posted by Velocinox

I'll buy that. Star Wars fans are bat shizz crazy. You couldn't possibly make them happy.

Meh... MEhhhh (jerry lewis nerd voice) but buuuut... Jedi are like gawds.. they can force pull a staaaarship. meh, meeeeeh.

But buuut, you made Jedi the only class anyone wants to play, they are too powerful, meh meeeeeeh...

Why did you nerf jedi, they have to be GAWDLYKE! I'm quitting!! meh meeeeeeh!!

 

Anybody that buys star wars as the greatest 'sci fi' of our generation is gulping the kool aid by the barrels.

 

Actually your assertion is quie incorrect.

People were quite happy with SWG pre NGE, even when Jedi back then was not an easily obtainable thing.

Funny how everytime the make a star wars mmo more "Jedi-ly", the shitter it gets and the more pissed off fans are.

I think people just prefer playing smugglers vs bounty hunters end of the day.

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

9/28/12 8:10:16 PM#71
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by superniceguy

 The fact that 1.5 million people ditched the game means it is a bad game, not us few saying it is a bad game, and the majority of them just quit without saying a bad word, as apparently the forums are only the vocal minority.

Wonder how he explains SWG's demise?  Or was that not a "bad game"?

SWG held on to its full 26 servers for 6 years, then lost about 50%

SWTOR held on to its 200 servers for 9 months, and now has 20 servers, losing 90& of the servers

SWG had 3 expansions, SWTORs failure now means it is not having an expansion

SWTOR will have updates, same as SWG did with the biggest being Hoth in 2008, but it will not have an expansion like JTL, Rage of the Wookiees or Trials of Obi-Wan

SWG was a troubled game, and had its ups and downs, but it mass load of (unique) fetaures is what attracted many people, and at the end it was not a bad game after all. SWTOR was a shell of what SWG had. SWG = SWTOR + Player housing + Beast Master + Chronicles + Entertainers + Multiplayer space + sandbox gameplay

SWG got shut down because LA forced the issue. When they announced the shut down, it had 4 FULL servers with the rest m medium to light. SWTOR was going to be their golden goose, and any subs SWG had would have been nothing to what they thought SWTOR was going to get, and players would just migrate from SWG to SWTOR.

If they knew that SWTOR would not have loads of subs by this time, I doubt they would have shut down SWG.

Its kinda funny because SOE wanted SWG to be a WoW clone too and ultimately ruined their game, and they think that starting from scratch as a themepark mmo will be a successfull themepark?

Whats the difference between sandbox to themepark transition and themepark to itself?....themepark. Every WoW clone will ultimately fail unless some company with brilliance will somehow have both very good sandbox and themepark features in some ultimate mmo. There is really no difference, LA repeated the nightmare.

Lets take a look back where bioware got the hero engine to make a star wars mmo in 2005, swg's doom day was 2005 too. Why are the star wars mmos wanting to be like WoW? WoW has a loyal fanbase if your just going to make a clone no one is going to buy a clone.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Sevenstar61

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1559

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

 
OP  9/28/12 8:10:40 PM#72
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

The worst thing that happened to SWTOR was that SoE got rid of SWG.

I've heard several players in SWTOR mentioning that they know players who were saying that they will do everything possible to kill SWTOR so the fate of these games will be the same...

Not saying that all SWG players are like these... but I wish SWG was still available....

SWG was dead long before swtor. NGE killed SWG, getting rid of it really made no difference - it is not as if it has a massive playerbase anymore after NGE (before NGE the population was quite big, for that period, which was before WoW became a juggernaut).

Still... but hurt SWG fans would have the place to go... now they are homeless


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1008

9/28/12 8:12:41 PM#73
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Still... but hurt SWG fans would have the place to go... now they are homeless

Hurt SWG fans would've been homeless either case, as SWG and swtor are not even remotely the same game (they are even set in different Star Wars period).

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

9/28/12 8:14:17 PM#74
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Still... but hurt SWG fans would have the place to go... now they are homeless

Hurt SWG fans would've been homeless either case, as SWG and swtor are not even remotely the same game (they are even set in different Star Wars period).

what does that have to do with SWG fans being upset? seems like a very minor reason to me.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  Sevenstar61

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1559

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

 
OP  9/28/12 8:15:41 PM#75
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Still... but hurt SWG fans would have the place to go... now they are homeless

Hurt SWG fans would've been homeless either case, as SWG and swtor are not even remotely the same game (they are even set in different Star Wars period).

Well... all my guildies are from SWG. They all are still subscribed, they are all fans of SW. These guys are really cool  :) I wish there were more like them. They miss SWG, but at least they are reasonable LOL


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1008

9/28/12 8:16:23 PM#76
Originally posted by Jonoku

Its kinda funny because SOE wanted SWG to be a WoW clone too and ultimately ruined their game, and they think that starting from scratch as a themepark mmo will be a successfull themepark?

Whats the difference between sandbox to themepark transition and themepark to itself?....themepark. Every WoW clone will ultimately fail unless some company with brilliance will somehow have both very good sandbox and themepark features in some ultimate mmo. There is really no difference, LA repeated the nightmare.

Lets take a look back where bioware got the hero engine to make a star wars mmo in 2005, swg's doom day was 2005 too. Why are the star wars mmos wanting to be like WoW? WoW has a loyal fanbase if your just going to make a clone no one is going to buy a clone.

SoE is obsessed with dumbing down games for some reason. Even Planetside 2 they dumb down the skill point system from that of Planetside 1 to a class system of Planetside 2.

I always wondered if they realised that people actually love what they originally have instead of copying others??

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2265

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/28/12 8:16:36 PM#77
Originally posted by Deewe

What more probably pushed them is the bad results of TOR. It was them or EA CEO.

 

Yeah EA and Activsion had childish attacks at each other, mainly EA, as jealous of Activision/Blizzards successes

EA boss wants Call of Duty to 'rot from the core'

 Activision kept trying to make peace

But EA just keeps on doing more mudslinging

  aRtFuLThinG

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1008

9/28/12 8:18:23 PM#78
Originally posted by Jonoku
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Still... but hurt SWG fans would have the place to go... now they are homeless

Hurt SWG fans would've been homeless either case, as SWG and swtor are not even remotely the same game (they are even set in different Star Wars period).

what does that have to do with SWG fans being upset? seems like a very minor reason to me.

Just saying that the fanbase are not necessary the same

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

9/28/12 8:19:37 PM#79
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

The worst thing that happened to SWTOR was that SoE got rid of SWG.

I've heard several players in SWTOR mentioning that they know players who were saying that they will do everything possible to kill SWTOR so the fate of these games will be the same...

Not saying that all SWG players are like these... but I wish SWG was still available....

Just adding to speculation, Andryah might be trying to kill SWTOR .. becuase he/she posts 140 times a day (google search on her unique signature).  Maybe Andryah is a shill like poeple think .. or maybe it's someone out to turn gamers away .. I mean if you listen to some of the pro-EA crap coming out that's enough to turn me away.

 

Here's an example of Andryah, just on the top of a google hit, posted today:

 

EA has a long history of resizing their MMO teams to keep inside the cost curve and stay profitable on their MMOs. DAoC is evidence of this, almost to an extreme. NCsoft would have pulled the plug on it 5 years ago. EA though looks at revenue as revenue contribution to the company (regardless of size of revenue) and only requires cost to be X% less then revenue in order to meet a profit threshold number. This is pretty much what large holding companies do, and EA is a large holding company of many different game properties.
 

Feeling Entitled =/= Being Entitled
NOW, the real question is.... who will I be falsely accused of being today?
 
 
Andryah .. I hope that you come to the light side one day ...
 
Just google "andryah site:www.swtor.com" or even more accurate, go for the signature :
site:www.swtor.com "Feeling Entitled =/= Being Entitled"
copy that entirely, and you'll get the latest wonders.
On the left, use the timeframe options to further localize this search, by date .. today last week, past motnth etc.
 
So while some might think Andryah is a shill, I'll agree with you that some might be trying to destroy this version of SW, in which case Andryah is doing a great job, especially since people on other forums already linked him/her to EA (whether it's true is a tinfoil hat theory).

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Sevenstar61

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1559

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

 
OP  9/28/12 8:22:53 PM#80
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

The worst thing that happened to SWTOR was that SoE got rid of SWG.

I've heard several players in SWTOR mentioning that they know players who were saying that they will do everything possible to kill SWTOR so the fate of these games will be the same...

Not saying that all SWG players are like these... but I wish SWG was still available....

Just adding to speculation, Andryah might  be trying to kill SWTOR .. becuase he/she posts 140 times a day (google search on her unique signature).  Maybe Andryah is a shill like poeple think .. or maybe it's someone out to turn gamers away .. I mean if you listen to some of the pro-EA crap coming out that's enough to turn me away.

 

Here's an example of Andryah, just on the top of a google hit:

 

EA has a long history of resizing their MMO teams to keep inside the cost curve and stay profitable on their MMOs. DAoC is evidence of this, almost to an extreme. NCsoft would have pulled the plug on it 5 years ago. EA though looks at revenue as revenue contribution to the company (regardless of size of revenue) and only requires cost to be X% less then revenue in order to meet a profit threshold number. This is pretty much what large holding companies do, and EA is a large holding company of many different game properties.
 

Feeling Entitled =/= Being Entitled
NOW, the real question is.... who will I be falsely accused of being today?
 
 
Andryah .. I hope that you come to the light side one day ...
 
[just google "andryah site:www.mmo.swtor.com" and you'll get the latest wonders.

There are extremes on both sides: hate and fanbois.  Nobody is really taking Andryah seriously LOL

Most of people are just playing game and not going to forums. To be honest I browse it less and less by myself. Looking mostly for news and advices.

 


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

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