SWG pre CU had around 250k subs.

SWG NGE had (rumored) around 10k

SWG NGE was a failed attempt at a Star Wars them park. Star wars fans like freedom, creativity, uniqueness, and more than anything, they want to live in the star wars universe. They view Luke as the hero, not themselves. A theme park is contrary to the very beliefs that Star Wars and it's fan hold dear.

So what should a company do after seeing that making a Star Wars game into a theme park failed, make another Star Wars game theme park! Makes perfect business sense. Because we all know Star Wars fans are all WOW fans right, no, not even close.

If TOR was a hybrid, take what the last 2 years of SWG was and mix it with SWG pre CU then add in some modern touches it would have destroyed WOW. Players don't want more WOW, they already did WOW, and WOW does WOW better than any of these other hacks can do WOW. Not to mention half the WOW players are sick of WOW but just keep playing it because it makes no sense to start over in another diet coke half baked WOW when your already getting WOW.

Silly 60 year old corporate decision makers, they heard "10 million players, $15 a month, Star Wars like Warcraft" and they thought it was a sure thing, they underestimate us, and now they burry TOR with all the other soulless cash grabs.

 Heh , when EA is a part of something , you can be sure as hell that it will crumble. :)

You managed to use the "word" -WoW- 16 times in two short paragraphs. GG.

Very true, and oddly, the same can be said for LOTRO.  The most popular fantasy franchise in history, released right on the tails of three huge films and, IMO, it disappointed.  The devs gave us the story instead of the world.  Too linear, too contrived.

But could have been a huge, mysterious world with all sorts of hidden dungeons, elven kingdoms, haunted castles, forests, and wondrous things to explore.

Maybe next time they'll give us Middle Earth instead of a movie.

Im starting to believe that other companies devs don't keep track of how well other games is doing.

They only see WoW and start making their games.....

Originally posted by arctarus

Im starting to believe that other companies devs don't keep track of how well other games is doing.

They only see WoW and start making their games.....

 

 

Partly, but I think since these games take about 5 years to make, they were started about 5 years ago, when WOW was in its heyday.  They just did not adapt during the design implementation process.

Originally posted by theJexster  

Star wars fans like freedom, creativity, uniqueness, and more than anything, they want to live in the star wars universe. They view Luke as the hero, not themselves.
 

This is one of the main things that pissed me off about the NGE. They thought everyone wanted to be the one of the Heroes from the movies.

I never wanted to be Luke or Han or Lando. I didnt want to be Owen either (though I did have a 2nd account that was an Owen).

I wanted to be ME. I wanted to live whatever life I came up with in a Star Wars Universe. I wanted to live MY Adventure.

SOE/LA didnt want me to

SWTOR was just an NGE right from the start.

Originally posted by theJexster

SWG pre CU had around 250k subs.

SWG NGE had (rumored) around 10k

SWG NGE was a failed attempt at a Star Wars them park. Star wars fans like freedom, creativity, uniqueness, and more than anything, they want to live in the star wars universe. They view Luke as the hero, not themselves. A theme park is contrary to the very beliefs that Star Wars and it's fan hold dear.

 

This is so true.  

1.3 mill would be good if you didn't tell the world you projected 5 mill and maybe even 8 or 10 mill. 1.3 is a huge flop when your banking on 5.

My main never wanted to be the hero, he always wanted to be a Jabba (the crime boss guy not the fat gross guy). Being a jabba like character is just about impossible in any of the current MMOs other than EVE. But even in EVE most of the old school have that role locked down.

I also had a 2nd toon that was an Owen, that line you said about having an Owen made me smile hehe.

I never wanted to be 'the hero' in precu SWG either.  I had three avatars and they all had their own history and lives and unfolding drama.  Though flawed it was the best mmo I played because it let me play the way I wanted to for the most part.  I could mix and match my skills, pick up new abilities, drop ones I didn't like, experiment, tinker with different classes.   

TOR failed because you can design themepark game mechanics in a day, whereas there are much more complex interractions in a sandbox.  People erroneously believe there is nothing to do in a sandbox because there are little to no quests, but it's just the opposite.  In a sandbox, as in life, there is always something to do for those who want to do something.  Design wise, themepark is checkers and sandbox is chess.  

...keeping my fingers crossed for the Repopulation mmo, because besides that which can not be named, we will not see another game like precu SWG anytime soon.

Having played Swtor from day 3 of its release and unsubbed about 3mnths ago I can tel you the main reason it failed was the engine they used which made them have 1.3million servers so there was no lag. It was a ghost town on my server from day one of my playing. I thought maybe i picked the wrong server but i checked all the servers and all had low pops except for a couple. I can't tell you how much socialzation in a mmo is important like lfg tools and easy chat options ..So that you create a commiunity addicted to your game.None of this happened and hence the downfall....there are some othe factors but if I had to pick out one major factor that would be my 2 cents...imo

Originally posted by Trionicus
It's finshed failing? I thought it was still around with uuh.. 1.3million subs.

Well a "server merge" from 200 server to 20 can't be good.

Originally posted by Xssiv

Originally posted by theJexster

SWG pre CU had around 250k subs.

SWG NGE had (rumored) around 10k

SWG NGE was a failed attempt at a Star Wars them park. Star wars fans like freedom, creativity, uniqueness, and more than anything, they want to live in the star wars universe. They view Luke as the hero, not themselves. A theme park is contrary to the very beliefs that Star Wars and it's fan hold dear.

 

This is so true.  

 

 

Ya, I remember when I was a kid and ESB and RotJ released. We played "Star Wars" on the playground and in the backyard after school. Man, the fights that broke out over who got to be Owen or Wuher were fierce!

Originally posted by Trionicus
It's finshed failing? I thought it was still around with uuh.. 1.3million subs.

haters gonna hate...

If someone does like something they'll shout it from a mountain. If someone likes something they're too busy playing it to come here and talk about it...welcome to MMO forums :)

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Xssiv

Originally posted by theJexster

SWG pre CU had around 250k subs.

SWG NGE had (rumored) around 10k

SWG NGE was a failed attempt at a Star Wars them park. Star wars fans like freedom, creativity, uniqueness, and more than anything, they want to live in the star wars universe. They view Luke as the hero, not themselves. A theme park is contrary to the very beliefs that Star Wars and it's fan hold dear.

 

This is so true.  

 

 

Ya, I remember when I was a kid and ESB and RotJ released. We played "Star Wars" on the playground and in the backyard after school. Man, the fights that broke out over who got to be Owen or Wuher were fierce!

We always played as Rebel v Empire or Jedi v Sith. Never played as a specific character

Soon as I saw the dead and lifeless static worlds and environments and the lack of and depth or realizm to and no day and night cycles. We are talking space and the universe here man! Shame to waste such vast amounts of money simply on gimmick voice acting story elements. Yes the cinematic story elements were nice but still, so much more could have been added to make this game really shine. Other games have been made on far less budgets that did just fine on delivering the quests. Seems SWTOR could have just as easily found a good balance between delivering the quests/story and adding depth and complexity to the game play with as much money as they had at thier disposal.

Originally posted by theJexster

SWG pre CU had around 250k subs.

SWG NGE had (rumored) around 10k

SWG NGE was a failed attempt at a Star Wars them park. Star wars fans like freedom, creativity, uniqueness, and more than anything, they want to live in the star wars universe. They view Luke as the hero, not themselves. A theme park is contrary to the very beliefs that Star Wars and it's fan hold dear.

So what should a company do after seeing that making a Star Wars game into a theme park failed, make another Star Wars game theme park! Makes perfect business sense. Because we all know Star Wars fans are all WOW fans right, no, not even close.

If TOR was a hybrid, take what the last 2 years of SWG was and mix it with SWG pre CU then add in some modern touches it would have destroyed WOW. Players don't want more WOW, they already did WOW, and WOW does WOW better than any of these other hacks can do WOW. Not to mention half the WOW players are sick of WOW but just keep playing it because it makes no sense to start over in another diet coke half baked WOW when your already getting WOW.

Silly 60 year old corporate decision makers, they heard "10 million players, $15 a month, Star Wars like Warcraft" and they thought it was a sure thing, they underestimate us, and now they burry TOR with all the other soulless cash grabs.

It has nothing to do with theme park vs. sandbox.  That's crap.  The game is faltering for two reasons:  the idea that story could trump gameplay in an MMO was flawed and they executed damned near everything poorly. 

Hopefully it will serve as an example to other developers of what not to do.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Very true, and oddly, the same can be said for LOTRO.  The most popular fantasy franchise in history, released right on the tails of three huge films and, IMO, it disappointed.  The devs gave us the story instead of the world.  Too linear, too contrived.

But could have been a huge, mysterious world with all sorts of hidden dungeons, elven kingdoms, haunted castles, forests, and wondrous things to explore.

Maybe next time they'll give us Middle Earth instead of a movie.

LOTRO disappointed?  By whose standards?  It's one of the very few themepark MMOs that did the WoW formula the right way.  And they did a terrific job of bringing Middle Earth to an MMO.  

You just don't like themeparks.  But that doesn't mean that LOTRO wasn't done very well in it's own right.