Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by busdriver

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

Did ya really need to insult the person for sticking with something they wanna play? I would think the mature thing to do would be to wish them well, and go about your business.

 You do remember what forum you're in right? ;)

 

I'm glad you are sticking to it, but for me I quit after about 45 days post-launch.  I still had a 60 day time card lying around so I tried to get back into it this weekend and I just couldn't do it.  I love SW and the KOTOR games, but the world seemed "static" to me.  I miss little details like trees swaying in the wind like in AOC or VG.  I might just be getting MMO burnout, as I've stopped playing LOTRO for a little bit and wound up uninstalling AOC.  Maybe I'll give VG/EQ2 another shot.

Originally posted by Trikke

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU.

People like you are the reason we never get a decent mmorpg. You let developers and publishers get away with it.

I'm fed up of being told that my expectations are too high or we should settle for less, or go elsewhere. I expected a decent Star Wars mmorpg and in my opinion that's not what was created.

Anyhow, keep paying your monthly sub for a single player game. I'll spend my money in more productive ways.

Originally posted by Trikke

Which is one of the reasons warhamer failed in my opinion. They decieded to listen to the fanboi's rather than listen to us who were screeming at them to fix the pvp b4 it was too late.

I thought players were the problem not developers who don't listen...

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by busdriver

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

Did ya really need to insult the person for sticking with something they wanna play? I would think the mature thing to do would be to wish them well, and go about your business.

 

You should read his post again. He's hardly mature in paragraph 3 where he insults every player who would like to see mmos improve instead of the same dross churned out every few months.

Originally posted by MMOSavant

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by busdriver

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

Did ya really need to insult the person for sticking with something they wanna play? I would think the mature thing to do would be to wish them well, and go about your business.

 

 

You should read his post again. He's hardly mature in paragraph 3 where he insults every player who would like to see mmos improve instead of the same dross churned out every few months.

I don't agree with why he's staying with TOR since he's still supporting a company that totally squandered the best IP in the world and takes to extremes everything he complains about in other games. That sounds a bit hypocritical to me but it's his money.

I do agree with his paragraph 3 though. Gamers are as much to blame as the companies.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by busdriver

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

Did ya really need to insult the person for sticking with something they wanna play? I would think the mature thing to do would be to wish them well, and go about your business.

 

 

I'm going to remember you said this Moaky.

Well put, all the people whining about games complain about the games the DO play right along with the games they try then quite.  In other words you folks are just compulsive complainers shut up and go troll trade chat.

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

Instead of this long dissertation, you could have just said "I like Star Wars" and be done with it. 

Originally posted by Oph8

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

 

Instead of this long dissertation, you could have just said "I like Star Wars" and be done with it. 

I disagree. What we need is certain people *cough cough* to move on to forums of games they like instead of dissing on people who actually support it. God some of you really have to find something better to do. I'm sure you would have no problem if he wrote the same length OP hating the game..then you would have put +1....right?

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

Classic blame-the-victim post.   Nothing more.  Nothing less.  

Bottom line is that BioWare blew it.   They spent more money on this MMO than pretty much any MMO has ever spent.   BioWare is on record that this MMO is bigger than every game they made in their Company's history, COMBINED.   BioWare is on record this game cost more to make than every game they've made in their company history, COMBINED.

When BioWare sold itself to EA, EA had to take on $190 million of loans and short-term debt BioWare racked-up in making the game.   (Far in excess of the $75 million 38 Studios got from RI.)  EA is on record for $80 million of their own cash into this MMO, considerably more than the $55 millions Schilling alleges he put into KoA.    And were not even talking OH...   Just development costs.

All that money and we got this...  

A game with so many flaws that people who, more than anything, wanted this game to be a massive success.   Only to get one the worst MMO experiences in their lives.   Being able to get to end game in weeks and have it missing...   Having to roll-alts for end game and re-experience all those third-rate, mailed-in side-quests?

How is that my fault?   How did I make they throw in every bad cliche' in the book, build static, boring worlds, make everything ridiculously silly looking, and ship a game without even basic features?  A game that remains broken today and requires a massive engine re-write...  That's, also, not my fault.  

And it's not like I'm a perfectionist that requires an MMO to be MMO Jesus.    What I want is for it to be 'fun.'   And the 'fun' was killed by the grind and amateurish game.   It's like these people didn't even bother to hire someone who even played an MMO to design and develop this game.  And that too, is not my fault.

Originally posted by Gruug

Originally posted by Blackwater56

Too bad EA and Bioware clearly doesn't feel like sticking with SWTOR

 

Not what I would call an informed comment really. I am currently playing the latest update coming in the next couple of weeks and neither EA and especially Bioware do not seem to have gotten YOUR memo. A good number of NEW things and FIXES are indeed coming to SWTOR. If you paid attention at E3, you have seen that they do indeed plan much more in the "coming months".  

You don't send memos to the 40% of the development staff you laid off...   The ones you said, when you thought you had a great game, you were NOT going to lay off....    This wasn't project closure attrition.   This was "So long Sailor, thanks for the good times..."

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by MMOSavant

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by busdriver

Originally posted by Trikke

Having played most of the mmo's that have been released in the last 10 years I have decieded to stick with swtor for the time being. Unless DAOC comes back from the dead. WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon. Or Eve online brings back and finishes Incarna (IE walking in stations) It seems that there is no other reasonable choice but for me to stick with SWTOR.

Yes I have seen and read about all the doom and gloom. Server merger's, Layoffs, ect... and I don't really care.. I was there when the player base whined about claas imbalance, radar, speed hacks, and how noone liked the trials of atlantis that killed DAOC. I was there when  The SWG higher ups decieded to try to become more like wow.  I was there when goonswarm decieded to suicide gank anyone mining hi-sec ice fields. And most others whined about a 75$ monicle and not being able to spin you ship in a circle in your docking bay.

In my humble opinion the problem with every MMO that has come out in the last 5 years is YOU. Whining about wow this or gw2 that. This is too hard. That is too simple. Im board. I want my milk and cookies. All of which I have also said and done in the past.

So instead I'm gonna pick a game I like (swtor) and follow it to what ever end.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

 

Did ya really need to insult the person for sticking with something they wanna play? I would think the mature thing to do would be to wish them well, and go about your business.

 

 

You should read his post again. He's hardly mature in paragraph 3 where he insults every player who would like to see mmos improve instead of the same dross churned out every few months.

I don't agree with why he's staying with TOR since he's still supporting a company that totally squandered the best IP in the world and takes to extremes everything he complains about in other games. That sounds a bit hypocritical to me but it's his money.

I do agree with his paragraph 3 though. Gamers are as much to blame as the companies.

Gamers have no say.   None.   They can scream, yell and cry all they want.  But they cannot do more than have their tantrums.

All decisions are made by the developer.  The developer bears all responsibility for those decisions.   If they chose to listen to players, that too is their choice.   If they chose to mold their games on what they perceive players to want, that too is their choice.    When it comes to SWTOR, it's clear BioWare built BioWare's game.    The minor things, like LFG and what-not, are trivial issues in what is wrong with this game.   Here's the deal:

• Fans didn't demand a crappy engine and blocking-calls to lag combat into oblivion.  
• Fans didn't demand FedEx and Kill 10 Rats quests.  
• Fans didn't demand the whole game be voiced (BioWare made that choice before fans heard about the the game).  
• Fans didn't demand sterile, static, non-interactive worlds.  
• Fans didn't demand the game ship without standard features.
• Fans didn't demand horrible customer service.
• Fans didn't demand only human characters (with silly cosmetic differences).
• Fans didn't demand BioWare be hostile to grouping.
• Fans didn't demand Open World PvP be so segregated that it rarely happens on PvP servers.
• Fans didn't demand far too many, too slow loading screens.
• Fans didn't demand all the instancing.
• Fans didn't demand no appearance tabs.
• Fans didn't demand no meaningful guild and social options beyond 'friends list' functionality.
• Fans didn't demand a lack of meaningful guild objectives.
• Fans didn't demand to look all a like and have every story play alike no matter the choices.
• Fans didn't demand BioWare not fix bugs present since early Beta...
• Fans didn't demand lousy, uninspired raids.
• Fans didn't demand worthless crafting.
• Fans didn't demand the nerfing of the ONE decent craft skill.
• Fans didn't demand the segregation of inherently neutral classes -- soldiers, bounty hunters, smugglers and agents by faction.
• Fans didn't demand badly written stories with such horrible plot and immersion issues that they were frequently jarring in their errors and plot holes and, therefore, ineptly executed beyond belief.

And I could go on for a long time.  This thread (The Unsubscribers Thread)  talks, in great detail, to all the various failings of the game and why people quit by the hundreds of people who did quit:  http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=444571

And 'listening to fans' isn't exactly high on the list.   Not listening to fans who were trying to get basic functionality in the game is, however, on the list.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by MMOSavant

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by busdriver

Originally posted by Trikke
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't agree with why he's staying with TOR since he's still supporting a company that totally squandered the best IP in the world and takes to extremes everything he complains about in other games. That sounds a bit hypocritical to me but it's his money.

I do agree with his paragraph 3 though. Gamers are as much to blame as the companies.

 

Gamers have no say.   None.   They can scream, yell and cry all they want.  But they cannot do more than have their tantrums.

 

All decisions are made by the developer.  The developer bears all responsibility for those decisions.   If they chose to listen to players, that too is their choice.   If they chose to mold their games on what they perceive players to want, that too is their choice.    When it comes to SWTOR, it's clear BioWare built BioWare's game.    The minor things, like LFG and what-not, are trivial issues in what is wrong with this game.   Here's the deal:

 

• Fans didn't demand a crappy engine and blocking-calls to lag combat into oblivion.  
• Fans didn't demand FedEx and Kill 10 Rats quests.  
• Fans didn't demand the whole game be voiced (BioWare made that choice before fans heard about the the game).  
• Fans didn't demand sterile, static, non-interactive worlds.  
• Fans didn't demand the game ship without standard features.
• Fans didn't demand horrible customer service.
• Fans didn't demand only human characters (with silly cosmetic differences).
• Fans didn't demand BioWare be hostile to grouping.
• Fans didn't demand Open World PvP be so segregated that it rarely happens on PvP servers.
• Fans didn't demand far too many, too slow loading screens.
• Fans didn't demand all the instancing.
• Fans didn't demand no appearance tabs.
• Fans didn't demand no meaningful guild and social options beyond 'friends list' functionality.
• Fans didn't demand a lack of meaningful guild objectives.
• Fans didn't demand to look all a like and have every story play alike no matter the choices.
• Fans didn't demand BioWare not fix bugs present since early Beta...
• Fans didn't demand lousy, uninspired raids.
• Fans didn't demand worthless crafting.
• Fans didn't demand the nerfing of the ONE decent craft skill.
• Fans didn't demand the segregation of inherently neutral classes -- soldiers, bounty hunters, smugglers and agents by faction.
• Fans didn't demand badly written stories with such horrible plot and immersion issues that they were frequently jarring in their errors and plot holes and, therefore, ineptly executed beyond belief.

 

And I could go on for a long time.  This thread (The Unsubscribers Thread)  talks, in great detail, to all the various failings of the game and why people quit by the hundreds of people who did quit:  http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=444571

 

And 'listening to fans' isn't exactly high on the list.   Not listening to fans who were trying to get basic functionality in the game is, however, on the list.

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything you said but you took me a little too literally. Unfortunately we do have to count the "casuals" as gamers.

WOW came in and changed everything. It caters to casuals and that's all fine, WOW remains the top game because of that but something went awry with WOW. Somewhere along the way the shear number of casuals deemed sandbox features as taboo. Being a sandbox fan became an insult. Then enough of those casuals kept demanding their game become less and less time consuming. WOW was happy to oblige and that's fine for WOW but it didn't stop with WOW.

Other companies started wanting that success and all they seen was this large mass of loud casuals demanding speed and ease in their games and laughing down anyone suggesting complexity. All the market research pointed at making another game like WOW. What the companies failed to realize is casuals by definition don't want to have to spend the time starting over. They already have WOW and have maxed their characters out. They don't have the time to do it all again in some other game, especially if it's the same mechanics as WOW.

Another problem arised with casuals not knowing they already have their game. They keep jumping for joy at every new game like LOTR, Rift, TOR and others and they keep buying those games, but they keep finding out they are nothing but the same things they already have in WOW, so why should they spend the time they don't have starting over or much less having to keep pace with more than one game.

With maybe TOR being the exception because of it's huge production cost, the companies all know the casuals will jump on every new title and cover the production cost early so there is little risk if the companies keep producing a sure thing casual centered game.

Simply put, companies aren't going to take risk in trying to innovate anything new when they know they can depend on short term success because gamers will not stand up and say no more of the same things by forcing companies to produce good different gameplay before a profit is achieved.

All that might only make sense to myself but I'm all that matters anyway

HAHA.....I am staying because I am staying....Nice explenation that you are staying because you are having fun....Customers like YOU that will keep paying a bill to do so are the reason people push unfinished trash onto people, so look in the mirror, next time you want to assign blame.

Originally posted by ktanner3
Well put. Until someone else picks up the tab, i'll continue to play what "I" like. Not what others on a message board thinks. I dont even think the people that gripe about this game daily are even playing any mmos since their post history shows they hate everything.

 I agree, play what you like, not what others want you to like, but the funny thing is, he NEVER said he liked it....Just that he was tired of the changing mmo theme he is driviling about, while assigning blame to others...

Seriously? You're going to blame the crappy design flaws of SWTOR on the players? Damn skippy you're sticking with it and feel compelled to put down anyone who doesn't like SWTOR (including EA/Bioblows). I mean, someone's gotta keep the fail-train running, so it might as well be you, and to hell with anyone who doesn't think like you. That about cover it?

Originally posted by CcDohl

Originally posted by Trikke

WOW stops playing with panda's and pokemon.

 

Pandarin have been part of Warcraft since the Warcraft 3 expansion.

But as a joke!

Originally posted by ktanner3

I guess there wasn't enough hate threads for the usual suspects to take a dump in.

 Guess you should just say, hey, I like it (never did say he liked it), and not blame others for the failure of certain mmos....People usually don't respond too well to that...But I guess seeing what you want to see, instead of why is fine.

I played TOR, was just expecting to read, hey I like it, was going to maybe reply that he is the target audience, the content they are making expands on the current content, and if you like it, then you should continue to like the game, becuase they do not seem to be changing things....BUT thats not what he did.

I will stick with WoW for similar reasons.