Originally posted by toodlepip123

Originally posted by ragz45

Originally posted by toodlepip123

Originally posted by Master10K

I know I may get some flak for posting this, but if you want to play an MMORPG for it's PvP then I suggest you wait for Guild Wars 2. They seem to be the only devs that get it. Also it actually has some e-sport potential. SW:TOR's PvP is just riddled with issues at the moment, like being unplayable for some high-spec PCs.

If youve played GW2's pvp at any convention, you wouldnt be singing its praises again.

Funny I played gw2 at gamescon and e3, and i'm singing it's praises all day long.  Best fun I've had in a long time.  Only thing that compares IMO is DAOC in it's hayday and the first few battlegrounds in warhammer (before the mid/end game horribleness)

I have no idea what dillusions you were under when playing then. The combat felt like oblivion and skyrim. That is, pretty damn terrible. 

 

I'm not saying it wont change by launch, but from what theyve shown so far, it wont be the amazing game the fanbois are making it out to be. The ONLY thing that stands out are there arent really any quests in the normal sense.  

I am sorry, but you quite obviously have never played gw2 at a show.  The combat couldn't feel less like Skyrim, not that Skyrim/oblivion were bad.  I quite enjoyed both, but it felt absolutly nothing like either one.  If anything the combat felt somewhat like dcuo without combo moves.

If I was a PvP hardcore person I would just stick with consoles or maybe GW as it will not be much into character building (no unfair advantage that the PvP people hate).

Uh oh...the combat felt like DCUO?  That combat feels like console badness.  I was hoping something closer to Dragon Nest (which it looks like in the videos I've seen).

PvP in SWTOR - ok here is the deal as I see it, and I am a rather hardcore PvP player. 

Leveling up PvP is great, tons of fun.

AT level 50 however its total crap. 

Its the expertise rating on the gear that makes that all happen. No expertise=no chance at level 50. SO here is how they did this, you only get Expertise on armor maybe around level 45+ (and very little of it at that level if you do get any). SO when you hit the 50s braket you will get eaten by everyone who has the gear no matter your ability in playing your character. You have to have the gear to be useful in 50s PvP, you can't get the gear if you are not useful. So you have to put up with being lunch and grinding tons of losses just to get your start on the gear. 

Make no mistake about it, if you go into a 50s WZ undergeared, you will be a weak link to your team. Add in one or two others who just hit 50, and your team will most likely lose the WZ unless your opponent has the same weak link. You can not help this, you just dont have the gear to make a difference. All you can do is take your licks and hope for the punishment to end without much hatred built up. 

This is the way they designed PvP 50s bracket and how they made gear work in SWTOR. Its not a class balance issue here, its a gear balance issue. Expertise and gear alone determines the OP of the person you are fighting, not thier class, powers, or player skill.

If you are ok with that, then join in and enjoy. Like I said though, I prefer the 10-49 PvP. It doesn't suffer from the gear issue that you find at level 50. A skilled player at 20 can make a difference in a match even if the other side is all in thier 40s. All it takes is effort, determination, and thought...the things that make a good player a great PvPer.

Originally posted by toodlepip123

Originally posted by Master10K

I know I may get some flak for posting this, but if you want to play an MMORPG for it's PvP then I suggest you wait for Guild Wars 2. They seem to be the only devs that get it. Also it actually has some e-sport potential. SW:TOR's PvP is just riddled with issues at the moment, like being unplayable for some high-spec PCs.

If youve played GW2's pvp at any convention, you wouldnt be singing its praises again.

Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.

 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?

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Originally posted by Kaocan
PvP in SWTOR - ok here is the deal as I see it, and I am a rather hardcore PvP player. 
Leveling up PvP is great, tons of fun.
AT level 50 however its total crap. 
 
Its the expertise rating on the gear that makes that all happen. No expertise=no chance at level 50. SO here is how they did this, you only get Expertise on armor maybe around level 45+ (and very little of it at that level if you do get any). SO when you hit the 50s braket you will get eaten by everyone who has the gear no matter your ability in playing your character. You have to have the gear to be useful in 50s PvP, you can't get the gear if you are not useful. So you have to put up with being lunch and grinding tons of losses just to get your start on the gear. 
Make no mistake about it, if you go into a 50s WZ undergeared, you will be a weak link to your team. Add in one or two others who just hit 50, and your team will most likely lose the WZ unless your opponent has the same weak link. You can not help this, you just dont have the gear to make a difference. All you can do is take your licks and hope for the punishment to end without much hatred built up. 
This is the way they designed PvP 50s bracket and how they made gear work in SWTOR. Its not a class balance issue here, its a gear balance issue. Expertise and gear alone determines the OP of the person you are fighting, not thier class, powers, or player skill.
If you are ok with that, then join in and enjoy. Like I said though, I prefer the 10-49 PvP. It doesn't suffer from the gear issue that you find at level 50. A skilled player at 20 can make a difference in a match even if the other side is all in thier 40s. All it takes is effort, determination, and thought...the things that make a good player a great PvPer.

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Hit the nail right on the head.

I've got 2 50's, one of 'em is PvP geared, but I still dont solo queue, that's pretty much for running with a regular group.

My most enjoyable PvP is in the 10-49 brackets with friends and running alts. We find it far more enjoyable than level 50 PvP.

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

Originally posted by MikeJezZ
... And yeah I know that you have to do the main game in PvE mainly first, which is fine by me. I loved Warhammer Online PvP, and Im bored to death with WoW's PvP. Is it worth playing SW:TOR for the PvP part of the game?

No way it can compete with wow when you talk about pvp...

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

 

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

Yeah, I actually hit level 50 and valor 50 at the same time. Had a bag in storage and 1000/1000 commendations. I opened my 6 bags right after I levels and got a belt from all of it. 

The good news for me rigth now is I only need 8 more valor ranks to hit BM gear, so I'm just grinding our valor on win or lose to get me there. I'll save whatever commendations I get along the way and finish my daily and weekly as they come. 

It looks like I can mostly skip worrying about gearing up and just wait for the BM gear because i positioned myself right when I hit 50. Its not a luxary many have though unless you level up from PvP xp I guess. 

The bad part about the whole 50s gear is the way they give it out. The bags are better now with the 'progression' commendation handouts, but the RNG on the tokens is more than terrible now (pre BM that is). Its as if they decided earning your gear was bad, that everyone should have the 'fair and balanced' approach. All get the same random chance to succeed in PvP, good, bad, try, or not. 

Originally posted by MikeJezZ
... And yeah I know that you have to do the main game in PvE mainly first, which is fine by me. I loved Warhammer Online PvP, and Im bored to death with WoW's PvP. Is it worth playing SW:TOR for the PvP part of the game?

If you're bored with Wow's PVP you'll be comatose in SWTOR.

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

 

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

      I gotta admit I'm not a fan of that randomization in a hi tech mmorpg. :( I also find it is a step back having to deal with these bags. 

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

 

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

       

      I gotta admit I'm not a fan of that randomization in a hi tech mmorpg. :( I also find it is a step back having to deal with these bags. 

 

No argument from me here. Personally I think the first thing they need to do to fix PvP in SWTOR is get rid of these bags completely. It is the frontrunner in what is wrong with lvl 50 PvP, everything else can point back to this bag system in one way or another.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

 

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

       

      I gotta admit I'm not a fan of that randomization in a hi tech mmorpg. :( I also find it is a step back having to deal with these bags. 

 

No argument from me here. Personally I think the first thing they need to do to fix PvP in SWTOR is get rid of these bags completely. It is the frontrunner in what is wrong with lvl 50 PvP, everything else can point back to this bag system in one way or another.

not sure if its been stated but a recent patch changed it so you get more commendations and the chance at gear in a bag has been greatly diminished.   so its suposed to be a more consistant rate at which you gear up.

Seriously, just give it a try but if you don't like it you can always cancel. I would like EA to introduce a trial account for experiencing PVP, personally.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

 

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

       

      I gotta admit I'm not a fan of that randomization in a hi tech mmorpg. :( I also find it is a step back having to deal with these bags. 

 

No argument from me here. Personally I think the first thing they need to do to fix PvP in SWTOR is get rid of these bags completely. It is the frontrunner in what is wrong with lvl 50 PvP, everything else can point back to this bag system in one way or another.

not sure if its been stated but a recent patch changed it so you get more commendations and the chance at gear in a bag has been greatly diminished.   so its suposed to be a more consistant rate at which you gear up.

Yes it has been stated, pre-BM bags have been changed to give more commendations and less tokens. BM hasn't changed. Which begs the question though, why have a bag at all other than the RNG chance at the token? Why not just reward the commendations on the quests period, or better yet, allow people to trade up to them with the ones they actually earn in PvP. Warzone to Merc, Merc to ..... to ...... to ...... It would seem logical to me to give just commendations for your daily quests, and commendations AND a token for your weekly. Get rid of the random token item concept all together. Instead of making me hope that bag #17 will actually contain the token I need for my chest piece instead of my 5th token for boots, why not just tell me boots costs 3 tokens and chest cost 6, and let me trade up to tokens if I have enough commendations to get there.

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.

 

 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?

 

 i did this, when i hit 50 i had 800 of each thats 4 bags, plus i had one that i bought long ago so when i hit 50 i had 5 bags to open. i was thinking awsome maybe i will at least get one piece of gear........

after opening all 5 i got nothing but tokens so i could afford 1 piece of centerion gear that gave me a wopping 30 or so expertise. now im fighting against people who got away with exploiting and have 600+ expertise vs my 30. guess how fast you die when one of those guys hits you?

after opening another 5 bags or so and only getting tokens im starting to think this is a total rip off, especially because its not even fun doing the daily, weekly quest anymore for them. ilam is a total joke and doing the same 3 warzones over and over are boring.

and just so you know this is how ilam works.

there are 5 points to " fight over " wich on my server empire allways control. and all the fighting happens outside the Repub base and this is how it goes down.

40 or so empire stand outside the repub base, 20 or so repubs stand in their base. both sides try over and over to do the pull moves to drag each other out. if the empire pulls a guy out all the raids attack him and try to get the credit for the kill.  if the repub drag a guy then the base turrets one shot him and they get the kill.

we call it fishing its probably the dumbest end game pvp i have ever seen in my life. honestly even Age of Conan failed sieges might of been more fun than this.

Unless you're a fair weather PvPer meaning you like it on occasion but isn't your main focus I would suggest staying away from this game. I can't imagine most that really find PvP as one of their main focal points enjoying this game's take on PvP.

Really depends on how important that aspect is to your gameplay. This game is rather lacking in that area and outside possibly making some tweaks and adding a new warzone or two I don't see them going real overboard on adding things to it. Least not any time soon anyways.

It's okay but I just tinker with it on occasion and frankly there are more than a few issues with it. I simply don't care much about them because that isn't my main focus for the game nor do I tend to take PvP in general very seriously.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Originally posted by Baikal

 

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Originally posted by AcmeGamer
Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.
 
 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?
 

---

 

That's what I do, but the gear in bags is pretty random. With comm's on my last toon I had 6 bags and got no gear. Friend of mine got loot in 4 of 6 bags, and that was a pretty big difference in terms of being ready to go into PvP at 50.

I'm not complaining, it's random, but because of the expertise itemization it does hurt. It makes me wish that PvP vendors would have recipie's for mods/armoring/enhancements so the appropriate crafters could make some starter level expertise mods.

       

      I gotta admit I'm not a fan of that randomization in a hi tech mmorpg. :( I also find it is a step back having to deal with these bags. 

 

No argument from me here. Personally I think the first thing they need to do to fix PvP in SWTOR is get rid of these bags completely. It is the frontrunner in what is wrong with lvl 50 PvP, everything else can point back to this bag system in one way or another.

not sure if its been stated but a recent patch changed it so you get more commendations and the chance at gear in a bag has been greatly diminished.   so its suposed to be a more consistant rate at which you gear up.

Yes it has been stated, pre-BM bags have been changed to give more commendations and less tokens. BM hasn't changed. Which begs the question though, why have a bag at all other than the RNG chance at the token? Why not just reward the commendations on the quests period, or better yet, allow people to trade up to them with the ones they actually earn in PvP. Warzone to Merc, Merc to ..... to ...... to ...... It would seem logical to me to give just commendations for your daily quests, and commendations AND a token for your weekly. Get rid of the random token item concept all together. Instead of making me hope that bag #17 will actually contain the token I need for my chest piece instead of my 5th token for boots, why not just tell me boots costs 3 tokens and chest cost 6, and let me trade up to tokens if I have enough commendations to get there.

 

 Exactly, why I think the bag system is a step backwards to some of the older more clunkly and unsatisfying systems from our past mmorpgs. Totally agree with you Kaocan. I don't look forward to this in 8 more levels, told my son the same thing when I first figured out what system Bioware was using with these bags. Ugh, just a very frustrating system to use.

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Originally posted by AcmeGamer

Kaocan, I'm currently at 42nd level with my main character. Once I realized how gear worked I started saving the acomindations and turning them into the merceny accomdinations. I'm trying to max out both to their 1000, currently Im at around 550 on the merc points and oh I snagged one bag of that you purchase with 200 merc points and 200 of the other points.

 

 IWhat I am hoping is that once I hit 50th I can just start turning in and getting the bags and getting geared before I even step into a 50th pvp area/warzone. To bad they won't allow you to store multiple of the merc bags, they are unique and you can't open it until your 50th. lol Would have made this less painful. Anyhow I wondered if this is what some others were doing?

 

 i did this, when i hit 50 i had 800 of each thats 4 bags, plus i had one that i bought long ago so when i hit 50 i had 5 bags to open. i was thinking awsome maybe i will at least get one piece of gear........

after opening all 5 i got nothing but tokens so i could afford 1 piece of centerion gear that gave me a wopping 30 or so expertise. now im fighting against people who got away with exploiting and have 600+ expertise vs my 30. guess how fast you die when one of those guys hits you?

after opening another 5 bags or so and only getting tokens im starting to think this is a total rip off, especially because its not even fun doing the daily, weekly quest anymore for them. ilam is a total joke and doing the same 3 warzones over and over are boring.

and just so you know this is how ilam works.

there are 5 points to " fight over " wich on my server empire allways control. and all the fighting happens outside the Repub base and this is how it goes down.

40 or so empire stand outside the repub base, 20 or so repubs stand in their base. both sides try over and over to do the pull moves to drag each other out. if the empire pulls a guy out all the raids attack him and try to get the credit for the kill.  if the repub drag a guy then the base turrets one shot him and they get the kill.

we call it fishing its probably the dumbest end game pvp i have ever seen in my life. honestly even Age of Conan failed sieges might of been more fun than this.

 I've yet to read anything positive about Ilum. It just sounds like it was badly thought out and implimented. :( Thanks for the info btw.

PvP is great from 10-49, it's fun and enjoyable. Once you hit 50 though it's a different story, Ilum is a farm, you either farm or be farmed, it's boring and WZ's suck because unlike 10-49, there is no bolster, imagine being a fresh lvl 10 fighting a 49 without the bolster, thats how it feels fighting the imperial champ premades.

So once you hit 50 you can painfully grind the kit by being repeatedly rear-ended by a horde of tounge slavering glow-stick spammers and taking the scraps.