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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » Spoilers » 20 Examples of Choices Effecting Events Beyond the Cutscene

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93 posts found
  baritone3k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 225

 
OP  2/07/12 11:43:16 PM#21
Originally posted by Cavod

Now I'm starting to wish I wrote down all the little changes I've noticed in my play through.  The thing is, unless you're playing the same character twice taking the opposite path, how would you know if it's different?  Maybe I misunderstood the point.


I remember back on Quesh, I was leveling with my wife and friend.  My friend was going dark side while we were mostly light.  He happened to pickup a quest without us, thus altering what needed to be done.  The thing is we weren't aware of this and it took us a while to figure out why we had such completely different objectives for the same quest.  (We'd been taking quests together up until this point)


There's also smaller things like previously spared NPCs showing up in cut scenes a chapter or two later.  Granted it's not like 'ZOMG HERE I COME TO SAVE YOU AND CHANGE THE STORY' showing up but it's definitely one of those 'hey, I remember saving you' gratifying 'alive' stories that most MMOs simply don't have.  They even fought with me as reinforcements at one point... not like I need them.  I imagine they'd just be generic jedi had I chose not to save them.


Having already leveled a Trooper and my wife being one perma-duo's with my JK, there's definitely been some key differences in our stories.  I'm sorry I can't site the differences (although they'd be spoilers and don't belong here) but it has been different in what the two of us have had to do along our ways.


Ultimately, the choices and their effects are there, you just have to be looking for them.  You also need a base for comparison otherwise it seems like your choices didn't matter.  Unfortunately, they are very watered down and bland (for the most part) as to be easy on the MMOers and not force them into a certain route due to outcome.   It's much like what GW2 talks about in trying to keep the dynamic events from turning into "NO GUYS!  FAIL THIS PART!  THE OUTCOME IS BETTER' which takes away all 'choice' of the matter and undermines it's very existence.

 

I had forgotten that something like the reinforcements you mentioned happened to me. It was the sith warrior storyline on Korriban. I kept getting challenged as I went to talk to my creepy mentor.

I let one of the guys live after he attacked me. I was rewardsed a few minutes later when he came in to tell me of an ambush. He even interposed himself, did not damage to the bad guy, died and I had to kill the guy solo anyways. I of course was already in the cutscene with the ambusher when this guy showed up. So, again, fully cosmetic.

The king of change which is similar to the one you mentioned on Quesh was on Balmorra or something. I am not sure. That one was a guy saying that he wanted me to kill all the force sensitives in his building so he didn't have to feed them or something. Again, that kind of change is just you get to or don't get to do a quest depending on your answer. It doesn't really branch into anything long term, but I should have mentioned it. I forgot until I read your post.

Someone please make a good MMO.

  Msenge

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/12
Posts: 90

2/08/12 11:25:29 AM#22
Originally posted by Cavod

Ultimately, the choices and their effects are there, you just have to be looking for them.  You also need a base for comparison otherwise it seems like your choices didn't matter.  Unfortunately, they are very watered down and bland (for the most part) as to be easy on the MMOers and not force them into a certain route due to outcome.   It's much like what GW2 talks about in trying to keep the dynamic events from turning into "NO GUYS!  FAIL THIS PART!  THE OUTCOME IS BETTER' which takes away all 'choice' of the matter and undermines it's very existence
 

While that is partially true about GW2 you are forgetting that those events are not a part of the player's personal story in the game.  On top of those event you also have an individual story wherein the player can make meaningful choices.  The most commonly known example of this is when human characters have to choose to save an orphanage or a military hospital from being burned down (there isn't enough time to save both).  If you save the hospital the orphange is then forever burnt down leaving a bunch of sad orphans milling about and vice versa.  How the story branches off after that we don't yet know but seeing the orphange or hospital burnt husk forever afterwards seems to me to be a meaningful effects from the choices you make.

  Dracill

Novice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 161

2/08/12 11:47:46 AM#23
1: with warrior; other student ask for your help with his quest after you got the doth artifact fragments. DS: you kill him and return your quest. LS: you give your fragments to him and need to repeat the quest.

Yes if you LS you need to do the quest twice. But later that student try to help you at your final quest in Koriban.
  Dracill

Novice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 161

2/08/12 11:50:57 AM#24
2: Trooper; you find a group of soldiers making minefield runs. You can LS turn them to an officer. DS: bet on the run. Or actually take part and run through the mine field.
  Dracill

Novice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 161

2/08/12 11:53:28 AM#25
3: Sith Warrior; you must kill one of your masters. You can kill him or let him escape. Later his daughter confronts you if you killed him you should kill her also. But if you let him go you can tell to her and she left.
  baritone3k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 225

 
OP  2/08/12 12:06:45 PM#26
Originally posted by Dracill
1: with warrior; other student ask for your help with his quest after you got the doth artifact fragments. DS: you kill him and return your quest. LS: you give your fragments to him and need to repeat the quest.

Yes if you LS you need to do the quest twice. But later that student try to help you at your final quest in Koriban.

Yes - this is what I meant to say about that Korriban quest. It wasn't that I left him alive. It was that I gave him the stuff I got. HAHAHA my reward was having to go back and do the exact same quest again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

THEN - this "help" he gives you in your final quest is just in the cutscene. He died immediately before I even engaged the bad guy. It was all fluff.

This is a GREAT example of the WRONG way to do this kind of thing.

Someone please make a good MMO.

  Dracill

Novice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 161

2/08/12 12:07:13 PM#27
4: Sith Inquisitor: Jedi in love in alderaan. Is you are LS you can talk the Jedi master to give you the key without fight.. latter you must kill him anyway in other place. But still a change in what you fight and when.
A DS Sith must kill both lovers to get the key.
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11937

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

2/08/12 12:07:21 PM#28
Originally posted by baritone3k
Originally posted by godzilr1

 

i think the problem you will have with this post is that you'll need someone that played the same class twice up to level cap making the oppose choices to get any answers. 

 

Youtube and conversations with guildies/other people who are online can bring those answers.

I have to add one - SPOILER - at the end of the BH line you can choose to kill the chancellor or the sith lord who sent you to kill him. BUT other than fighting one or the other, it does not mark you as a traitor to the empire or anything. You just go along your way again. No lasting effect.

Then it doesn't affect events beyond the cutscene.

  baritone3k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 225

 
OP  2/08/12 12:10:18 PM#29
Originally posted by Dracill
3: Sith Warrior; you must kill one of your masters. You can kill him or let him escape. Later his daughter confronts you if you killed him you should kill her also. But if you let him go you can tell to her and she left.

We can debate how effective this kind of change is, but it is the kind of choice that did change later events.

 

The question I have it - can you kill him and then just lie to her about it? Does she ever come back arfter never finding him alive? Why not just lie to her about it. The question is - is it illusion again? She will always come and talk to you and even if you killed him can you get away with it by being a sith and using deception? If so. Then it is again just window-dressing.

Someone please make a good MMO.

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2537

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

2/08/12 12:14:27 PM#30

Is this an attempt to create the illusion that it's a free and open-ended game? Why not just call a spade a spade, would be a lot easier and honest that way. Creating a story-based MMO that is open-ended choice wise would take years and years to create, it's just not feasible.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  Dracill

Novice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 161

2/08/12 12:15:17 PM#31
@baritone3k: but make a quest again is not a aesthetic consequence its a bad consequence but its a consequence for your decisions. Its the perfect example of taking a decision and suffer a consequence.

It's exaclty consequences done right. There are also a lot of quest that give you different rewards based on your decisions.
  Majinash

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/08
Posts: 1343

2/08/12 12:17:00 PM#32
Originally posted by Zekiah

 Creating a story-based MMO that is open-ended choice wise would take years and years to create, it's just not feasible.

Years and hundreds of millions of dollars?  Pretty sure BW had those two things.

Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  Zekiah

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2537

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

2/08/12 12:23:32 PM#33
Originally posted by Majinash
Originally posted by Zekiah

 Creating a story-based MMO that is open-ended choice wise would take years and years to create, it's just not feasible.

Years and hundreds of millions of dollars?  Pretty sure BW had those two things.

Not enough years, you just can't create an open-ended story-driven game without many years of work. Especially when you spend a good portion of that cash on video and voice-overs.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  User Deleted
2/08/12 12:26:38 PM#34
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Snaylor47

Name 20 MMOs that give you choices...

Is it really choices if it doesn´t affect the game?

Romance, Choices in certain companion missions and flashpoints, gear if you want to get technical.

 

Keep in mind the more it affects you the more they have to work adding content  to show said affects.

  77lolmac77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 498

2/08/12 12:27:43 PM#35
Having choices affect the game world? In a theme park?

Wrong genre my friend
  User Deleted
2/08/12 12:30:14 PM#36
Originally posted by 77lolmac77
Having choices affect the game world? In a theme park?

Wrong genre my friend

Unless Bentheda release The Elder Scrolls online in the last few seconds I am unaware of any sandbox that give you choices.

  baritone3k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 225

 
OP  2/08/12 1:56:02 PM#37
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Majinash
Originally posted by Zekiah

 Creating a story-based MMO that is open-ended choice wise would take years and years to create, it's just not feasible.

Years and hundreds of millions of dollars?  Pretty sure BW had those two things.

Not enough years, you just can't create an open-ended story-driven game without many years of work. Especially when you spend a good portion of that cash on video and voice-overs.

I won't use years to do this. I will take about 10 minutes to type this out:

 

Quest: Kil Jedi X.

Options upon meeting Jedi X: 1. Kill Jedi X, 2. Convince jedi X to switch sides; 3. Join jedi X.

Branch from option 1: Return to sith turd who asked you to kill jedi X, get agreed upon reward or a twist "pray I don't alter the deal further".

Branch from option 2: Return to sith turd who asked you to kill jedi X. Explain jedi X is now on your side. Turd sith gives you same or better reward or attacks you for being an idiot and tricked by jedi X.

Branch from option 3: Having joined Jedi X, you now look for ways to help the republic through sabotage, etc. You go to the empire places and do the opposite of what you are suppsed to for the empire. You can then double-cross the jedi after getting the reward and get both rewards. It took longer and you got more XP and more rewards.

Add in betray turd sith to any of there options and fight him or have to flee him if he is more powerful than you are.

Fun option would be - you are blackisted from questing on Balmorra! So you have to do your questing on the parallel worlds that are there which were just an option before. Now you have only 2 of the 3 planets to choose from. THIS of course would require less linearity.

Someone please make a good MMO.

  dimmit77

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/06
Posts: 296

2/08/12 2:11:10 PM#38
Originally posted by baritone3k
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Majinash
Originally posted by Zekiah

 Creating a story-based MMO that is open-ended choice wise would take years and years to create, it's just not feasible.

Years and hundreds of millions of dollars?  Pretty sure BW had those two things.

Not enough years, you just can't create an open-ended story-driven game without many years of work. Especially when you spend a good portion of that cash on video and voice-overs.

I won't use years to do this. I will take about 10 minutes to type this out:

 

Quest: Kil Jedi X.

Options upon meeting Jedi X: 1. Kill Jedi X, 2. Convince jedi X to switch sides; 3. Join jedi X.

Branch from option 1: Return to sith turd who asked you to kill jedi X, get agreed upon reward or a twist "pray I don't alter the deal further".

Branch from option 2: Return to sith turd who asked you to kill jedi X. Explain jedi X is now on your side. Turd sith gives you same or better reward or attacks you for being an idiot and tricked by jedi X.

Branch from option 3: Having joined Jedi X, you now look for ways to help the republic through sabotage, etc. You go to the empire places and do the opposite of what you are suppsed to for the empire. You can then double-cross the jedi after getting the reward and get both rewards. It took longer and you got more XP and more rewards.

Add in betray turd sith to any of there options and fight him or have to flee him if he is more powerful than you are.

Fun option would be - you are blackisted from questing on Balmorra! So you have to do your questing on the parallel worlds that are there which were just an option before. Now you have only 2 of the 3 planets to choose from. THIS of course would require less linearity.

 

Are you being sarcastic or is this an actual proposal ? Banning people from doing quests on a planet based on one quest choice? Damn the SWTOR developers for not thinking that one first . 

I mean it would be so succesfull .... 

 

/facepalm

PS. 

Even better , if you make 3 wrong choices you get to not level at ANY planet. 

ROFL

  baritone3k

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 225

 
OP  2/08/12 2:21:37 PM#39
Originally posted by dimmit77
Originally posted by baritone3k
Originally posted by Zekiah
Originally posted by Majinash
Originally posted by Zekiah

 Creating a story-based MMO that is open-ended choice wise would take years and years to create, it's just not feasible.

Years and hundreds of millions of dollars?  Pretty sure BW had those two things.

Not enough years, you just can't create an open-ended story-driven game without many years of work. Especially when you spend a good portion of that cash on video and voice-overs.

I won't use years to do this. I will take about 10 minutes to type this out:

 

Quest: Kil Jedi X.

Options upon meeting Jedi X: 1. Kill Jedi X, 2. Convince jedi X to switch sides; 3. Join jedi X.

Branch from option 1: Return to sith turd who asked you to kill jedi X, get agreed upon reward or a twist "pray I don't alter the deal further".

Branch from option 2: Return to sith turd who asked you to kill jedi X. Explain jedi X is now on your side. Turd sith gives you same or better reward or attacks you for being an idiot and tricked by jedi X.

Branch from option 3: Having joined Jedi X, you now look for ways to help the republic through sabotage, etc. You go to the empire places and do the opposite of what you are suppsed to for the empire. You can then double-cross the jedi after getting the reward and get both rewards. It took longer and you got more XP and more rewards.

Add in betray turd sith to any of there options and fight him or have to flee him if he is more powerful than you are.

Fun option would be - you are blackisted from questing on Balmorra! So you have to do your questing on the parallel worlds that are there which were just an option before. Now you have only 2 of the 3 planets to choose from. THIS of course would require less linearity.

 

Are you being sarcastic or is this an actual proposal ? Banning people from doing quests on a planet based on one quest choice? Damn the SWTOR developers for not thinking that one first . 

I mean it would be so succesfull .... 

 

/facepalm

PS. 

Even better , if you make 3 wrong choices you get to not level at ANY planet. 

ROFL

I am 100 legit in this.

That is choice and consequence without destroying your ability to progress but feeling real. You have to gtfo of the planetbecause this sith ord has labeled you a traitor. You then have to alter documentation to try to erase record of you on that planet. It coud use slicing.

But YES. THIS is the type of cool decision, I personally and a lot of people I know woud find DYNAMIC. It doesn't have to be every planet and all the time, but it truly branches your leveling.

 

Think about how much more fun alts would be if you could take very different routes. And not just for alts. But your main. Yeah, "I skipped that awful planet Taris by kiling my 5th quest giver and then I went to PLanet Y instead". Tell me half the pop wouldn't want this option on Taris :)

 

 

Even if in the end you end up on that generic wheel space station and Malgus has betrayed the emprie, at least you got there your way.

 

THAT would also encourage replay. Not the 1/10th of your quests will be different they have now.

Someone please make a good MMO.

  Robsolf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 4001

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

2/08/12 2:21:58 PM#40
Originally posted by baritone3k

We can debate how effective this kind of change is, but it is the kind of choice that did change later events.

 The question I have it - can you kill him and then just lie to her about it? Does she ever come back arfter never finding him alive? Why not just lie to her about it. The question is - is it illusion again? She will always come and talk to you and even if you killed him can you get away with it by being a sith and using deception? If so. Then it is again just window-dressing.

that's a good question, though I suspect "no" in most cases.  The most significant choice consequences, from what I've seen, can determine the nature of the quest objectives.  On Voss, for example, you can choose between cleansing some Jedi Shrines, or killing some critters to acheive the mission objective.

I DO know that I've been confronted as a BH for killing certain NPC's much earlier.  But I don't recall if I had the option to spare that NPC's life, and thus, change that encounter.

Either way, long lasting consequences are impractical in a traditional MMO.  You don't get a save game, so the consequences of your choices wouldn't be very clear.  AND you'd miss content, as no one is going to redo 100 hours of gameplay to see how making a different decision would effect the story; let alone having MANY different outcomes.  This has been debated on countless earlier threads.

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