Originally posted by DannyGlover

 

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Originally posted by Scorchien
  Linear, repetive and boring  , cant be fixed ..The core mechanics of this game are terrible , all they can do now is add more terrible...

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Wait, are you talking about the forum pvp here or TOR?

LMFAO. Excellent work, DannyGlover.

Originally posted by Dracill
Not all games are done for you. I did played 4 times KOTOR, 3 JE, 6 DAO, 4 ME, 3 DA2...
for me BioWare games have more replayability than any other. That doesn't make me correct.

I played 4 characters since launch up to mid 30's without repeat a single quest. Except the black bisector in corellia because I like that quest.

For me the game have more replayability than any other MMO.

Its just for me... that doesn't make it right for you... but for my taste is the right MMO.

Really? I am rather impressed, besides NWN I just loose interest after playing them through once...

I guess there are all kinds of players.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Why does it matter who is in the majority? That's the question of the day for me.

because obviously for a game like this if people feel its the greatest MMO ever and for whatever reason majority agree then the game will go on to be an huge success for many years if the people who feel this game is epic failure and those end up being the majority the game will go on to be another failed MMO in the grand scheme of things

Is it all that important to the discussion whether TOR becomes a success or a failure? To me it's not, my opinion wouldn't change either way, I'm sure that's the case for most people.

As Glover said, what's the end goal of such a topic? An I told you so? I don't get posters who have that agenda, it's rather juvenile IMO. Reminds me too much of all that "tag" bs we see around here.

it's not about who is right or I told you so rights.. well I don't want to post it all again because i just did but my answer is here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/340136/page/15

The end games of swtor is good. But no one does it. I just unsubbed. Dont listen to anyone saying its great and wonderful they wouldnt be here responding to you if they really felt that way.

I left a low pop server, 2 imp side 50's there because there wasnt a darn thing happening there. Went to a high pop to find at 50 that not one pvp match is balanced. Imps have a full group of solid rank 60+ battlemaster decked out for the 120 seconds of 3v8...nonsense.

You can sit literally all day lfg and never find a group. By the time you find a tank the healer left, by the time you find a healer, the tank logged. And because of that no one pve's. So no one pvp's, no one pve's, if you do dailys and like dailys youre a flat out idiot. Thats not content thats work. So what to do? Unsub and uninstall and go play shogun 2 or something.

This game is 100% crap, i rather play Cabal online than keep losing my time on this honestly.

Originally posted by sanosukex

 

i been followed like 3 or 4 threads last couple days I hardly say thats all over also where am I whining? complaining yes.. giving reason why yes.. if you don't like what I have to say just don;t read my posts

OK, Since you brought it up. You started posing here on around Dec 1, 2011. Since then you are up 1700+ posts here in the SWTOR forum. I say again you could not PAY me to post that much about a game I like much less a game I do not like.

Originally posted by Fed1

Originally posted by sanosukex

 

i been followed like 3 or 4 threads last couple days I hardly say thats all over also where am I whining? complaining yes.. giving reason why yes.. if you don't like what I have to say just don;t read my posts

OK, Since you brought it up. You started posing here on around Dec 1, 2011. Since then you are up 1700+ posts here in the SWTOR forum. I say again you could not PAY me to post that much about a game I like much less a game I do not like.

 

 

chalk it up to a LOT of spare time at work this past few months...  12 hour shifts with nothing to do is killer.. so technically I'AM getting paid to post here

SWTOR has one really good playthrough for each faction.  After that you are repeating 90% of the content. 

That is the side effect of having the stories scripted from planet to planet.  It certainly would have been nicer to let the user choose one of two planets each time their story goes to the next planet.  That would give a more WOW like leveling experience in terms of diversity which somehow had two zones to choose from all the way to cap(with the exception being EPL which was the 55-60 zone until they released silithus).

Sounds like the OP is a completionist.  If you are a completionist, then yes, the replayability of this game can be bad.  If you are actually smart about how you level your characters, this game's replayability is actually very good.

There are a TON of quests in this game.  More than you would ever need to do on your way to level 50.  And I'm not talking about class quests, I'm talking about world story arcs and side quests.  If one were to do all of these, you'd literally be 5-6 levels over every single planet's level range from about level 20 on.  I know, because one of my friends did it like this.  On the empire side, by the time he finished Balmorra's bonus quests, he was already about 5 levels above where he needed to be to start Nar Shaddaa, and he continued that kind of over-levelling throughout the entire game.  

Are you going to be going to the same planets in the same order?  Yes, unfortunately.  This is my major gripe with the way the game is designed and I hope that Bioware stays true to their word to add more planets and content for solo-oriented people and altaholics.  However, if you are smart about how you quest, and are willing to leave quests on the table, then you can literally have about half your quest content be compeletely different on your next character.  

Obviously, if you feel obligated to complete every single quest on every single planet, then yeah, for now, it will get mundane when you roll alts.  But if you are willing to leave quests and entire quest hubs on the table your first couple of characters through, there is no reason you should be doing the same content over every time.  Best advice I can give, until they start giving us some alternative levelling paths, which I'm confident they will do, is to just pick a couple of quest hubs out per zone to do the quests in, concentrate on class storylines, utilize your space combat dailies and pvp dailies every day.  Try to fit in a flashpoint when it's available, and utilize bonus quest chains on certain planets in order to spend LESS time on the planets you are too familiar with, and you should have no problems with redundancy.  

For example, I did not like questing in Nar Shaddaa.  I'm just not a big fan of indoor questing.  I like being outside.  So I went ahead and completed the bonus series on Balmorra so that I could skip large sections of Nar Shaddaa on my first character. In fact, by the time I hit Nar Shaddaa, I was nearly level 23, so I only had to do the class quest line and a few side quests there before moving onto Tatooine.  Then for my next alt, I skipped the Balmorra bonus series and did more of the quests on Nar Shaddaa, but still was able to skip entire quest hubs, which I can now do on my third alt if I choose.  

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Sounds like the OP is a completionist.  If you are a completionist, then yes, the replayability of this game can be bad.  If you are actually smart about how you level your characters, this game's replayability is actually very good.

There are a TON of quests in this game.  More than you would ever need to do on your way to level 50.  And I'm not talking about class quests, I'm talking about world story arcs and side quests.  If one were to do all of these, you'd literally be 5-6 levels over every single planet's level range from about level 20 on.  I know, because one of my friends did it like this.  On the empire side, by the time he finished Balmorra's bonus quests, he was already about 5 levels above where he needed to be to start Nar Shaddaa, and he continued that kind of over-levelling throughout the entire game.  

Are you going to be going to the same planets in the same order?  Yes, unfortunately.  This is my major gripe with the way the game is designed and I hope that Bioware stays true to their word to add more planets and content for solo-oriented people and altaholics.  However, if you are smart about how you quest, and are willing to leave quests on the table, then you can literally have about half your quest content be compeletely different on your next character.  

Obviously, if you feel obligated to complete every single quest on every single planet, then yeah, for now, it will get mundane when you roll alts.  But if you are willing to leave quests and entire quest hubs on the table your first couple of characters through, there is no reason you should be doing the same content over every time.  Best advice I can give, until they start giving us some alternative levelling paths, which I'm confident they will do, is to just pick a couple of quest hubs out per zone to do the quests in, concentrate on class storylines, utilize your space combat dailies and pvp dailies every day.  Try to fit in a flashpoint when it's available, and utilize bonus quest chains on certain planets in order to spend LESS time on the planets you are too familiar with, and you should have no problems with redundancy.  

For example, I did not like questing in Nar Shaddaa.  I'm just not a big fan of indoor questing.  I like being outside.  So I went ahead and completed the bonus series on Balmorra so that I could skip large sections of Nar Shaddaa on my first character. In fact, by the time I hit Nar Shaddaa, I was nearly level 23, so I only had to do the class quest line and a few side quests there before moving onto Tatooine.  Then for my next alt, I skipped the Balmorra bonus series and did more of the quests on Nar Shaddaa, but still was able to skip entire quest hubs, which I can now do on my third alt if I choose.  

    I was going to write a nice long post but this one is ecerything I was going to say myself.  I actually skipped ALL the content except for the class quests on two different worlds because my completionist nature had me several levels above where I should have been.  Then I went on to skip some quest hubs and the bonus series as well on a few worlds just to stay in line with the level curve.  Basically leaves me plenty of alternate leveling opportunities.

    Of course, this doesn't even take into acount the multitude of branching quests I have found.  Two different play throughs, playing the exact same quests, can feel (and play out) totally different thanks to the choices you make in these quest lines.

Originally posted by fiontar

I think the point is that the PVE leveling path is very linear, with few alternative paths due to lack of redundant content. (One big reason WoW was such a success was that even in Vanilla, there was plenty of redundancy, which allowed you to chart a leveling path through different combinations of zones that allowed you to have fresh content for a number of alts before you had seen almost everything). Also, as noted, the world zones in SWTOR are just incredibly "blah". In good MMOs, the zones will be "cool" enough that you want to play through them more than once. Not the case for many people here with TOR.

Of course, there is also the matter of the "distinct, class based story lines". Many were led to believe that there was over a hundred hours (or even two hundred hours) of story content unique to each class, but that just is not the case. Much of the story content is shared by the other classes of the same faction and the amount that is actually unique to a class is fairly sparse. So, even though you might have 20 hours of new story for an alternate class, you have way too much in the way of "re-runs", which for many make subsequent alt experiences feel like retreads. (This also really highlights how  linear the game is. Any illusion of meaningful choice goes out the window when you play an alt and realize that the non-class specific content plays out the same, even if you make very different choices).

It's nice to have alternatives to leveling, like PVE and the space mini-game, as well as the small group instances, but in my own experience, these were all pretty lackluster and were not up to par with even mediocre MMORPG competition. If the developers were relying on these things to extend the game experience and enhance replayability, they should have done a much better job with the design and implimentation.

well said.  this is my largest issue with the game, personally.  Everyone else in this thread saying "and this is different from every other MMO how?" needs to wake up and see the obvious difference.  If I can take 4 characters to cap in Lotro, EQ2 and WoW and have a COMPLETELY different pve questing experience, yet I cannot do this in SWTOR, I would think this would be fairly obvious, even to the most staunch fanboy out there.

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Sounds like the OP is a completionist.  If you are a completionist, then yes, the replayability of this game can be bad.  If you are actually smart about how you level your characters, this game's replayability is actually very good.

There are a TON of quests in this game.  More than you would ever need to do on your way to level 50.  And I'm not talking about class quests, I'm talking about world story arcs and side quests.  If one were to do all of these, you'd literally be 5-6 levels over every single planet's level range from about level 20 on.  I know, because one of my friends did it like this.  On the empire side, by the time he finished Balmorra's bonus quests, he was already about 5 levels above where he needed to be to start Nar Shaddaa, and he continued that kind of over-levelling throughout the entire game.  

Are you going to be going to the same planets in the same order?  Yes, unfortunately.  This is my major gripe with the way the game is designed and I hope that Bioware stays true to their word to add more planets and content for solo-oriented people and altaholics.  However, if you are smart about how you quest, and are willing to leave quests on the table, then you can literally have about half your quest content be compeletely different on your next character.  

Obviously, if you feel obligated to complete every single quest on every single planet, then yeah, for now, it will get mundane when you roll alts.  But if you are willing to leave quests and entire quest hubs on the table your first couple of characters through, there is no reason you should be doing the same content over every time.  Best advice I can give, until they start giving us some alternative levelling paths, which I'm confident they will do, is to just pick a couple of quest hubs out per zone to do the quests in, concentrate on class storylines, utilize your space combat dailies and pvp dailies every day.  Try to fit in a flashpoint when it's available, and utilize bonus quest chains on certain planets in order to spend LESS time on the planets you are too familiar with, and you should have no problems with redundancy.  

For example, I did not like questing in Nar Shaddaa.  I'm just not a big fan of indoor questing.  I like being outside.  So I went ahead and completed the bonus series on Balmorra so that I could skip large sections of Nar Shaddaa on my first character. In fact, by the time I hit Nar Shaddaa, I was nearly level 23, so I only had to do the class quest line and a few side quests there before moving onto Tatooine.  Then for my next alt, I skipped the Balmorra bonus series and did more of the quests on Nar Shaddaa, but still was able to skip entire quest hubs, which I can now do on my third alt if I choose.  

    I was going to write a nice long post but this one is ecerything I was going to say myself.  I actually skipped ALL the content except for the class quests on two different worlds because my completionist nature had me several levels above where I should have been.  Then I went on to skip some quest hubs and the bonus series as well on a few worlds just to stay in line with the level curve.  Basically leaves me plenty of alternate leveling opportunities.

    Of course, this doesn't even take into acount the multitude of branching quests I have found.  Two different play throughs, playing the exact same quests, can feel (and play out) totally different thanks to the choices you make in these quest lines.

This game has so much content that you can take characters to 50 in a variety of ways.  You can do only your story quests per planet and pvp the rest....  You can do story quests and grind your way to 50 by doing flashpoints.  You can skip entire planets (must do class story through) and go into another planet.  

This game is what you make of it.  If you go into with the same mindset as Wow, or Rift, or LOTRO or Warhammer, or Aion.. and quest hub to quest hub, then you'll realize you outlevel the content and the quests become trivial.   Do some thinking in advance and the game has easily enough content for 3 play throughs to 50 on three different classes on the SAME FACTION.  Create another character on another faction you can different EVERYTHING...

This game is being crushed by the weight of its own expectations.  Objectively speaking, this game has way TOO MUCH  content.

Originally posted by elocke

well said.  this is my largest issue with the game, personally.  Everyone else in this thread saying "and this is different from every other MMO how?" needs to wake up and see the obvious difference.  If I can take 4 characters to cap in Lotro, EQ2 and WoW and have a COMPLETELY different pve questing experience, yet I cannot do this in SWTOR, I would think this would be fairly obvious, even to the most staunch fanboy out there.

I would actually say that EQII is just as Linar Go from 1-10 leveling zone chunck then to Freeport then to Butcherblock and so on. , And People seem to forget that while you did have to option of leveling in different places in WoW, no one ever really did due to the speed in which you could level in STV compared to decolance.

I leveled up  to max once in all of WoW X-pac and I have yet to see this magical path of unlinarity that you are speaking of. Same goes to EQII.

I'm not denieing that leveling the same faction up in TOR doesn't become repetative but don't act like it wasn't in the other games.

Has nobody conjured the thought about how this is no different that any MMO, ever?

I haven't bought the game, nor have I even played it, but I can already tell how whatever there is in terms of a unique class-based story has spoiled people into assuming it's that way throughout the entire game. Is it really that surprising that a bounty hunter's (etc) story runs dry early? I can name over a dozen games that don't even go that far, but then again, if they did - I'd expect them to go "all the way".

So perhaps the flak is earned, because there really is no way to set an expectation like that, in any way, and expect to drop "generic" content and get away with it. It's like feeding a baby milk when it's been eating flan for a month.

Originally posted by Snaylor47

Originally posted by elocke

well said.  this is my largest issue with the game, personally.  Everyone else in this thread saying "and this is different from every other MMO how?" needs to wake up and see the obvious difference.  If I can take 4 characters to cap in Lotro, EQ2 and WoW and have a COMPLETELY different pve questing experience, yet I cannot do this in SWTOR, I would think this would be fairly obvious, even to the most staunch fanboy out there.

I would actually say that EQII is just as Linar Go from 1-10 leveling zone chunck then to Freeport then to Butcherblock and so on. , And People seem to forget that while you did have to option of leveling in different places in WoW, no one ever really did due to the speed in which you could level in STV compared to decolance.

 

I leveled up  to max once in all of WoW X-pac and I have yet to see this magical path of unlinarity that you are speaking of. Same goes to EQII.

 

I'm not denieing that leveling the same faction up in TOR doesn't become repetative but don't act like it wasn't in the other games.

No.  Sorry, but you are presuming to speak for me and others like myself who DID find other areas to level in besides the "golden path" areas that EQ2 had.  Or whatever you are talking about with WoW.  I never followed some set fast path like only going to STV.  I chose whichever zone at my level I felt like visiting, like Desolace or that swamp near Theramore.  And that is just one example.

The only game similar to SWTOR in PVE leveling is Rift.  Funny thing is, it's my biggest pet peeve with Rift, too.  Playing an alt in Rift is not very fun due to the very one sided, one zone progression aspect.  

If something upset me during beta it was 2 stuff: the team claiming loud their game had great replayability and character customization. Can you be more clueless and not be aware of it?

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by fiontar

I think the point is that the PVE leveling path is very linear, with few alternative paths due to lack of redundant content. (One big reason WoW was such a success was that even in Vanilla, there was plenty of redundancy, which allowed you to chart a leveling path through different combinations of zones that allowed you to have fresh content for a number of alts before you had seen almost everything). Also, as noted, the world zones in SWTOR are just incredibly "blah". In good MMOs, the zones will be "cool" enough that you want to play through them more than once. Not the case for many people here with TOR.

Of course, there is also the matter of the "distinct, class based story lines". Many were led to believe that there was over a hundred hours (or even two hundred hours) of story content unique to each class, but that just is not the case. Much of the story content is shared by the other classes of the same faction and the amount that is actually unique to a class is fairly sparse. So, even though you might have 20 hours of new story for an alternate class, you have way too much in the way of "re-runs", which for many make subsequent alt experiences feel like retreads. (This also really highlights how  linear the game is. Any illusion of meaningful choice goes out the window when you play an alt and realize that the non-class specific content plays out the same, even if you make very different choices).

It's nice to have alternatives to leveling, like PVE and the space mini-game, as well as the small group instances, but in my own experience, these were all pretty lackluster and were not up to par with even mediocre MMORPG competition. If the developers were relying on these things to extend the game experience and enhance replayability, they should have done a much better job with the design and implimentation.

well said.  this is my largest issue with the game, personally.  Everyone else in this thread saying "and this is different from every other MMO how?" needs to wake up and see the obvious difference.  If I can take 4 characters to cap in Lotro, EQ2 and WoW and have a COMPLETELY different pve questing experience, yet I cannot do this in SWTOR, I would think this would be fairly obvious, even to the most staunch fanboy out there.

You can't do it in Lotro, either.  The levelling path through Lotro is the same for every single character you have.  There are some overlaps in zones, but for the most part, you are still doing the same quests over and over again.

EQ2 and WoW have been around for a long, long time, and both games have a ton of content, much of which wasn't there at launch either.  I don't think it's fair to write off TOR just yet in terms of replayability as it pertains to the linear quality of the levelling path.  Bioware has already stated they plan to release new planets for solo content to give people options for playing alts.  At this point, I'll take them at their word.  

Originally posted by elocke

well said.  this is my largest issue with the game, personally.  Everyone else in this thread saying "and this is different from every other MMO how?" needs to wake up and see the obvious difference.  If I can take 4 characters to cap in Lotro, EQ2 and WoW and have a COMPLETELY different pve questing experience, yet I cannot do this in SWTOR, I would think this would be fairly obvious, even to the most staunch fanboy out there.

Originally posted by Requiamer

If something upset me during beta it was 2 stuff: the team claiming loud their game had great replayability and character customization. Can you be more clueless and not be aware of it?

It's a good game for being completely on rails, like most bioware games are. I still contend the only reason they made it into an MMO was to combat piracy, and of course, to charge a monthly fee. It could easily be an offline solo game right now.