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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » A Why not? moment .. Make SWTOR's graphic engine open source and let fans fix it

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52 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15505

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

9/30/13 1:00:52 PM#41
Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Distopia
I think the best solution is to play a different game if this one bothers you so much. As for graphics hitching, I'd just like to point out that on my old PC it was a frequent thing I had to deal with while playing. After buying a new PC late last year, I've not had too much problem in that department in TOR, the only real exception being going to fleet at peak hours, the culling problems are still there. My old PC ( which I gave to my wife, even with a beefier GFX card now still has those issues. In short I'm not sure it's a GFX problem, it seems to be more in the processing department.

I7 cpu, SSDs, 16gb RAM and a Titan video card and still SWTOR can't handle 10 ppl going at it in a instanced pvp battle.

 

This engine obviously can't deal with many players, maybe one of the reason everything is on rails and instanced from level 1 till the end. They paid for it so why should they give it out for free?

Looking back at SWTOR, it looks simply like a co-op singleplayer game, if you look at it like that this game is a succes.

 

 

Even on my old PC I didn't have much of a problem in the BG's.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10535

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/30/13 2:00:25 PM#42


Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by Distopia I think the best solution is to play a different game if this one bothers you so much. As for graphics hitching, I'd just like to point out that on my old PC it was a frequent thing I had to deal with while playing. After buying a new PC late last year, I've not had too much problem in that department in TOR, the only real exception being going to fleet at peak hours, the culling problems are still there. My old PC ( which I gave to my wife, even with a beefier GFX card now still has those issues. In short I'm not sure it's a GFX problem, it seems to be more in the processing department.
I7 cpu, SSDs, 16gb RAM and a Titan video card and still SWTOR can't handle 10 ppl going at it in a instanced pvp battle.   This engine obviously can't deal with many players, maybe one of the reason everything is on rails and instanced from level 1 till the end. They paid for it so why should they give it out for free? Looking back at SWTOR, it looks simply like a co-op singleplayer game, if you look at it like that this game is a succes.    
Even on my old PC I didn't have much of a problem in the BG's.



Same here. SWToR might have a lot of issues, but displaying the number of people who show up on screen at any given time doesn't seem to be one of them.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4606

9/30/13 2:06:20 PM#43
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by DamonVile

Do you actually have the skills to do any of this yourself or are you just perroting what you've seen other fans say should be done ?

Someones people have skills you are not privy to.  If an engine revamp is possible, then you will know, if you are also involved.  Short answer = yes (with a team).  .. question to you:  why would you assume anyone who cares lacks skills?

Why would I assume someone on the internet making a huge job sound easy lacks the skills to actually do it....I don't know. Just a feeling maybe ?

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Grummus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/28/13
Posts: 115

10/01/13 9:08:56 AM#44
It's way too late to save SWTOR. You guys are silly.
  IstrebiteI

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

10/01/13 9:20:31 AM#45

You cannot fix it, because by allowing people an access to graphics API you would introduce an infinite source of bots and hacks. There's just so many things that you can do that way.

Like, if I know where to draw what, I know object's coordinates in the game - that's what is basically required to write a bot - a program that makes desicions for you - and you no longer have to recognize visual images, you can just get all the info you need from the game.

Or, in case of say, CTF kind of scenarios, or any PVP where sneak attacks or maneuver is important, I would make every character be visible from any location (like, add an infinitely high pole that protrudes from the character up and down, so wherever he is, he's visible to me).

Good idea, but such depth in modding will never be possible in MMO environments, unless we're talking game like Minecraft or Star Citizen, where there are lots of private servers with private rules (that can choose to allow or disallow certain mods).

  maxima29

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/13
Posts: 241

10/01/13 9:29:56 AM#46
Originally posted by Keylogger_007
It's way too late to save SWTOR. You guys are silly.

 

Actually it does not need saving. Those who bash it and don't even play it are the ones who need saving. The game is healthy more new content released today. Those who actually play the game know its doing just fine. Now you are the silly ones.
  silverreign

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 324

It is what it is

10/01/13 9:34:42 AM#47


Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Nevulus Never going to happen so stop wasting your energy and move on.   Albeit a modified version, it is still the Hero Engine and not EA's engine. Furthermore EA does not have their consumer's better interest at hand, only their shareholders.    You can't "just" single out the graphics portion and have players modify that without it affecting the network code or how it throttles assets via sockets. Maybe you have some inside information that I don't, in which case do tell, I'm all ears. If not, then you are just theory-crafting a moot point that will never make it anywhere.   Let's focus on REAL solutions and not make-believe unicorns. And please leave the code talk to real developers with working knowledge.
The real Trials here would be to convince others that there is no other real solution.  All potential solutions Of this game have not shown many results.   Listen to Obi-Wan and use the force :P

 

You do have a point with EA not being willing to help their own game much, agree there.  At least if the graphics portion was made available and sanitized, it would eliminate that from being the culprit .. then it would be less about Hero and more about EA (which is probably what EA would fear).



ok. maybe im just lost. i have no issues with swtors graphics. everything runs just fine. no lags no issues at all. personally i think the game needs a lot of things. but on my personal list, redoing graphics is pretty far down. just sayin

  IstrebiteI

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

10/01/13 9:39:28 AM#48
Originally posted by maxima29
Originally posted by Keylogger_007
It's way too late to save SWTOR. You guys are silly.

 

Actually it does not need saving. Those who bash it and don't even play it are the ones who need saving. The game is healthy more new content released today. Those who actually play the game know its doing just fine. Now you are the silly ones.

Tell you the truth, that's a very limited opinion. You cannot deny the fact that the game is doing "okay" (unlike WAR which is about to be closed) but at the same time you cannot deny the fact that the game is inferior to other MMOs in many ways.

Just take WoW. What is Warcraft? A computer game universe? Compared to Star Wars universe, these two are on completely different levels. I mean, we're comparing a pug to an elephant here - and Star Wars IS the elephant. It's one of the most popular IP's ever!

Now, seeing this IP get such a medicore game as it does is just.... nonsense! This IP deserves much better MMO made using it. This is not the case of SWTOR being a bad game as it is - this is the case of the game not deserving the license. It's an okay game in itself, but this IP deserves way more. Its like, you expect different levels of proficency and comprehension in maths from a Ph.D and a school junior.

So, in this sense, people do have right to complain about the game "sucking" and needing to be "saved".

  maxima29

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/13
Posts: 241

10/01/13 9:45:37 AM#49
Originally posted by IstrebiteI
Originally posted by maxima29
Originally posted by Keylogger_007
It's way too late to save SWTOR. You guys are silly.

 

Actually it does not need saving. Those who bash it and don't even play it are the ones who need saving. The game is healthy more new content released today. Those who actually play the game know its doing just fine. Now you are the silly ones.

Tell you the truth, that's a very limited opinion. You cannot deny the fact that the game is doing "okay" (unlike WAR which is about to be closed) but at the same time you cannot deny the fact that the game is inferior to other MMOs in many ways.

Just take WoW. What is Warcraft? A computer game universe? Compared to Star Wars universe, these two are on completely different levels. I mean, we're comparing a pug to an elephant here - and Star Wars IS the elephant. It's one of the most popular IP's ever!

Now, seeing this IP get such a medicore game as it does is just.... nonsense! This IP deserves much better MMO made using it. This is not the case of SWTOR being a bad game as it is - this is the case of the game not deserving the license. It's an okay game in itself, but this IP deserves way more. Its like, you expect different levels of proficency and comprehension in maths from a Ph.D and a school junior.

So, in this sense, people do have right to complain about the game "sucking" and needing to be "saved".

 

I agree its not perfect or the greatest game ever. But its far from needing saving. And its also unfair to compare it to the Wow universe we know today. Wow has had ten years to build their game universe.
  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

10/01/13 9:53:30 AM#50

People need to stop suggesting that X game makes their code open source.

 

Companies spend 10s and even 100s of millions of dollars developing their engines and games. They aren't just going to throw it out there open source and let everyone start taking advantage of it for free.

 

Including open source work into your engine also makes things a legal nightmare as well.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13284

10/01/13 10:30:35 AM#51

Try to make fundamental, low-level changes to the engine of a live game and you'll create so many new bugs you'll be forced to scrap it and revert to the old engine.  Depending on what needs to be changed, you'll definitely be faced with redoing broad swaths of code that currently work, and may (or may not) have to redo a ton of art assets.

Open source doesn't change that, even if we ignore the business reasons why EA can't and shouldn't go that route.  It's an enormous time investment to figure out what code that someone else wrote is doing before you try to change that.  Try to make changes before you understand what you're doing and you're nearly guaranteed to break things.

  IstrebiteI

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 272

10/01/13 5:58:45 PM#52
Originally posted by maxima29
I agree its not perfect or the greatest game ever. But its far from needing saving. And its also unfair to compare it to the Wow universe we know today. Wow has had ten years to build their game universe.

I was not trying to compare universes - of course in terms of gaming, warcraft universe is about gaming, focused on it and will be better "suited" so to say, as for example, warhammer universe for tabletops. I was emphasizing IPs. Intellectual Property.

Like, if you make a medicore Space-themed MMO game with, say, Independance War's IP, or with Star Trek IP, latter is clearly a failure while former may actually be ok, especially for people who want to encounter the characters again, and play something they're familliar with and stuff.

Same here with SWTOR - when you take Star Wars, an IP that has a HUGE fanbase, an immense popularity, basically known to every city-dwelling human on the planet, spans across countless movies, books and stuff, it kinda... raises the plank, if you get my meaning. Medicore game just won't do.

And you probably even have no clue what Independance War is whatsoever (you may even think it's somehow related ot America when it absolutely isn't, it's about a future, set in a star system that doesn't even include Earth). So if the game sucks or doesn't work, you have no bad feelings - like, its just another game that isn't your cup of tea, you probably wouldn't even bother with it - like, this site has like hundreds of active MMOs listed, most of them are bad, but noone cares because they don't "touch" them, they aren't relevant to them.

However, when it's an IP that you know about, even if you're not passionate about it, it hurts to see it misused. In this case, if it sucks, there are people who's feelings are hurt, who do care, and that's what's going on with SWTOR.

Like, as a huge Transformers fan of the past (fan of the Anime mostly, japanese arc of Headmasters-Masterforce-Victory, and newer Car Robots and MicronDensetsu-Superlink-Galaxy Force), even though I'm not really into films, it annoyed and hurt me to see how medicore they went in the movies (penis, masturbation piss and sex jokes, really, and story all about main human hero and his sexy GF, really, having sex in the closing scene, REALLY?). And then, how the game based on the movie sucked (movie based games almost always suck, but still). Same thing, I didn't play the "War for Cybertron" or something TF-themed game (I belive it's only on consoles, plus it's a typical multiplayer grind game that I don't like) but I really loved that they finally made a good TF game! And I don't really enjoy the artstyle of Animated or Prime, so I didn't watch them past several initial episodes, but fans tell me that's good, and again, I feel nice that the franchise goes on - even if I don't watch it anymore, if they'd do some awfully shitty stuff and try to pass it as "Transformers", I'd be upset, and, having spare time on my hands, probably would voice my opinion on the matter, despite the financial success or wether some select people actually enjoyed it (because seriously, "if somenone enjoys it then you have no right to bitch about it" argument is logically invalid - people enjoyed laughing at Big Rigs or Ride to Hell: Retribution but it doesn't stop those games from being AWFUL).

I guess you must have some IP you like that you can relate with on this example.

So yeah. Summing it up:

Using a popular IP is a double-edged sword. You cannot deny that by using IP you take a responsibility to deliver a product of a certian level of quality. The more popular and influential is the IP, the higher is the quality level expexted. The whole thing about IPs, the point of IPs is to make people emotionally attached to them so that they CARE about the heroes, the universe, the lore and stuff, and to make people therefore purchase new content (books, films, toys, w/e) based on this IP. That is the whole point, that's what you pay license fees or establish IPs in the first place - to get customers for your goods! By establishing IP, you make sure to make people care about the IP. So any argument like "people should not care if the game turned out medicore because some people still play it" or "people have no right to complain if you don't like it just forget about it and move along" or such is invalid. Because you made them care about the IP in the first place, this was your goal - now face the consequences.

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