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122 posts found
  Maaku

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/06
Posts: 93

Live or die, do it with style!

5/04/13 10:15:16 AM#21

I'm half and half I guess on most of these (Deathstar, really? Meh!). As for hardcore, just no. If I was still in college with nothing else to do of my evenings and weekends, ok, maybe but the mmo crowd is VAST. From the kid barely out of his diaper to old timers like me who enjoyed a good old text based game. This has been said a million times but there is NO WAY you'll satisfy everyone with a game. Even all the changes the OP asked for.

So, is it what the game NEEDS, no. What the game needs is subscribers that stick with it long enough to get these changes, additions, suggestions in.

Given the chance, time and money, I'm sure the swtor team could add these worlds and features (Most). There's so many ways to go around some of the games limitations, really not an issue. The problem is they'll never get the capital to do it so here people sit crying about what might be when you've already given up on your best chance.

We've lived in a 'Consumer is always right' mentality for too fucking long. Hell, kids today are crying a damn fit if daddy doesn't buy them the latest iPhone... Well boohoo you little fucking snot osed spoiled dickless. In my time, there was ONE PHONE in the house and you made due! (.end grandpa rant). I think if we want the game to be what we wish it to be, we must first help it be successful instead of bashing it and moving on. Myself, I'm still subscribed to swtor and having a blast. Looking forward to the next update which brings in a new race (Cathar) and some nice dye options for armors.

Plus, Star Wars is Star Wars, swtor makes me feel part of that verse and to me, that's what really counts at the end.

________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."

  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2227

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/04/13 10:25:52 AM#22
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by sethman75
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge

 

luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay

and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...

swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game

and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,

because of the engines limitations


 

disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.

one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.

Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.

Hardcore has and will always be a minority group

I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.

SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.

I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.

  mrrshann618

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 183

5/04/13 10:49:27 AM#23

It is quite simple. SWG failed, and failed hard. It would not be stronger today thanks to WoW and the dumbing down process.

You want space combat, free flight, mining, ect..., quite simple, there is a game called eve. Quit trying to make SWTOR into Eve or SWG 2

You want instanced housing. yeah well that is your thing. I for one  never bother with it and do not need to show off my e-peen about how great I am at decorating.

Instancing - Well every game does it. however I do have to state that many games hide it much better. STO has just as much in the way of instancing.

Day/night, Weather Cycles, Open world - Yeah, how are these a necessity? Most games I've run across do not really have it or if they do it rarely makes any difference except dimming of the lights. Asfor open world. most games are just better at hiding it. Lets take a Look at WoW, much of that game is NOT open world. you are herded from point A to point B and many times can only get from those two points via a set route. Now Rift on the other hand, if you can find a way over the hill,  you can cross dang near anywhere.

 

SWG is a different game from SWTOR, and it failed

Eve is a different game from SWTOR and it is going strong.

Both are Sandbox styles. SWTOR is not. SWOTR is a Themepark! Go somewhere else for your Sandbox wishes. Quit trying to make a Themepark into a Sandbox even though you know IT WILL NEVER BE ONE and then bitching that the company isn't listening to you.

 

Side note. I'd be "defending" ANY themepark against your sandbox wishes. I play Themepark games because I want to go on a ride and enjoy myself. NOT go to a "second life/job". I do not need a digital life/job my analog one is doing just fine.

  Rayshe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1291

5/04/13 10:54:54 AM#24

I really think the open world would be a bad call on SWTOR's part. i just think that the file size would get to massive in order to do it. in order to balance that you would be stuck removing planets. I am getting the feeling that some people believe that mmo's are made by Wishful thinking and Candy Filled Dreams. FOr all these things that the people in this thread are asking for. Think about a year or 2 of development added on. And perhaps longer if they feel like adding it now. 

 

 

SWTOR was never supposed to be a sandbox. Its a themepark, Get over it.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2227

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/04/13 11:14:21 AM#25
Originally posted by mrrshann618

It is quite simple. SWG failed, and failed hard. It would not be stronger today thanks to WoW and the dumbing down process.

 

Not really. SWTOR failed. EA were expecting it to last 10 years as P2P

Has SOE folded - Smedley left the business and gone beer making? Nope. Has the main people from Bioware done this? Yep

Did SWG go F2P? No. SWTOR did and within the year.

SWG did not cost a bomb to make, so was financilaly viable. SWTOR was not, and now EA are extorting more money from SWTOR subbers with the cash shop too 

SWG also got many updates and 3 proper expansions, whereas SWTOR got a joke of an expansion which was really just an update and is the first MMO to charge for an update. If SWTOR did not fail it would have had a proper expansion, and plenty more content that it has been getting, which is just stuff that was mentioned nearly a year ago now.

SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.

SWTOR was created too much from WOW, and BW even said that if you do not do what WOW does, then you are setting yourself up for fail, but as WOW does WOW better than SWTOR does, people just went back to WOW

About 75% of people who bought SWTOR, proves that SWTOR failed and failed hard

  Pongo_

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/06
Posts: 35

5/04/13 11:21:24 AM#26

swg didn't fail, it was so horribly mismanaged that 'NGE' became synonomous with, 'how to FUBAR a game'.

i mean it's analogous to handing a faberge egg to a ADD 3 year old with parkinson's

  Karelia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/12
Posts: 688

5/04/13 11:22:43 AM#27
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by mrrshann618

It is quite simple. SWG failed, and failed hard. It would not be stronger today thanks to WoW and the dumbing down process.

 

Not really. SWTOR failed. EA were expecting it to last 10 years as P2P

Has SOE folded - Smedley left the business and gone beer making? Nope. Has the main people from Bioware done this? Yep

Did SWG go F2P? No. SWTOR did and within the year.

SWG did not cost a bomb to make, so was financilaly viable. SWTOR was not, and now EA are extorting more money from SWTOR subbers with the cash shop too 

SWG also got many updates and 3 proper expansions, whereas SWTOR got a joke of an expansion which was really just an update and is the first MMO to charge for an update. If SWTOR did not fail it would have had a proper expansion, and plenty more content that it has been getting, which is just stuff that was mentioned nearly a year ago now.

SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.

SWTOR was created too much from WOW, and BW even said that if you do not do what WOW does, then you are setting yourself up for fail, but as WOW does WOW better than SWTOR does, people just went back to WOW

About 75% of people who bought SWTOR, proves that SWTOR failed and failed hard

 

thats the real reason behind all those players that leave their new mmo's and return to the old chicken again and again.

  WalterWhite

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 393

It's time to cook.

5/04/13 11:26:16 AM#28
Originally posted by mrrshann618

It is quite simple. SWG failed, and failed hard. It would not be stronger today thanks to WoW and the dumbing down process.

You want space combat, free flight, mining, ect..., quite simple, there is a game called eve. Quit trying to make SWTOR into Eve or SWG 2

You want instanced housing. yeah well that is your thing. I for one  never bother with it and do not need to show off my e-peen about how great I am at decorating.

Instancing - Well every game does it. however I do have to state that many games hide it much better. STO has just as much in the way of instancing.

Day/night, Weather Cycles, Open world - Yeah, how are these a necessity? Most games I've run across do not really have it or if they do it rarely makes any difference except dimming of the lights. Asfor open world. most games are just better at hiding it. Lets take a Look at WoW, much of that game is NOT open world. you are herded from point A to point B and many times can only get from those two points via a set route. Now Rift on the other hand, if you can find a way over the hill,  you can cross dang near anywhere.

 

SWG is a different game from SWTOR, and it failed

Eve is a different game from SWTOR and it is going strong.

Both are Sandbox styles. SWTOR is not. SWOTR is a Themepark! Go somewhere else for your Sandbox wishes. Quit trying to make a Themepark into a Sandbox even though you know IT WILL NEVER BE ONE and then bitching that the company isn't listening to you.

 

Side note. I'd be "defending" ANY themepark against your sandbox wishes. I play Themepark games because I want to go on a ride and enjoy myself. NOT go to a "second life/job". I do not need a digital life/job my analog one is doing just fine.

 

SWG did not fail. Want to talk about failures, you're mentioning it a lot in your post and it also begins with SW. Please get your facts right before posting garbage.

  mrrshann618

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 183

5/04/13 11:26:26 AM#29

SWG -> Only in the dreams of players or on private servers as it is canceled = Failed

SWTOR -> in it's current state = did not live up to expectations, - When it is canceled = Failed

As for SWG going f2p, well the concept was not really around, or didn't have backing. Either way I wouldn't be playing it, as many others wouldn't

 

SWTOR lifespan < SWG so of course there are more expansions. That is like saying that expanions = how great a game is. Microtransactions and charging for DLC is the new thing, these concepts were not around for SWG, No longer do developers HAVE to worry about a full blown expansion unless they want to.

SWTOR was created to be much like WoW as it is a themepark. SWG is a sandbox TWO different play styles and types of games. SWG didn't have space right away, yet everyone EXPECTS every game to follow to has it as part of the core.

Originally posted by superniceguy

SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.

So what you are saying is that SWG failed because they knew SWTOR Was going to fail? That just sounds silly. Sandbox =/= themepark Those who liked Sandbox would have gone back, those that liked Themepark would have still left SWG.

  Sulaa

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/11
Posts: 830

5/04/13 11:27:51 AM#30

@OP

 

You won't see those things in this game.  If you really want those things then you need to look for another game.  Basically your choices are either leave and look for other game or stay in Swotr and de-facto support current Swtor design - yes you'll be supporting it even if you'll be creating threads like this one - because from game companies point of view it matters what you do (play game or not) rather than what you say.    Don't believe me?  

Look at those Vanilla WoW players that still play WoW and create endless threads what need to be added, changed or reversed to make WoW superb again. It's 8th year they're doing this and WoW is still not changing (back) to what they want. All they had really shown by all those years is that they LIKE how WoW is changing - because they still play it.

  Pongo_

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/06
Posts: 35

5/04/13 11:31:46 AM#31
Originally posted by mrrshann618

SWG -> Only in the dreams of players or on private servers as it is canceled = Failed

SWTOR -> in it's current state = did not live up to expectations, - When it is canceled = Failed

As for SWG going f2p, well the concept was not really around, or didn't have backing. Either way I wouldn't be playing it, as many others wouldn't

 

SWTOR lifespan < SWG so of course there are more expansions. That is like saying that expanions = how great a game is. Microtransactions and charging for DLC is the new thing, these concepts were not around for SWG, No longer do developers HAVE to worry about a full blown expansion unless they want to.

SWTOR was created to be much like WoW as it is a themepark. SWG is a sandbox TWO different play styles and types of games. SWG didn't have space right away, yet everyone EXPECTS every game to follow to has it as part of the core.

Originally posted by superniceguy

SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.

So what you are saying is that SWG failed because they knew SWTOR Was going to fail? That just sounds silly. Sandbox =/= themepark Those who liked Sandbox would have gone back, those that liked Themepark would have still left SWG.

 those who liked themeparks left for WOW.

funny but during SWG's lifetime, DDO, LOTRO,STO,COH, and others went F2P.

  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2227

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

5/04/13 11:51:44 AM#32
Originally posted by mrrshann618

SWG -> Only in the dreams of players or on private servers as it is canceled = Failed

SWTOR -> in it's current state = did not live up to expectations, - When it is canceled = Failed

As for SWG going f2p, well the concept was not really around, or didn't have backing. Either way I wouldn't be playing it, as many others wouldn't

 

SWTOR lifespan < SWG so of course there are more expansions. That is like saying that expanions = how great a game is. Microtransactions and charging for DLC is the new thing, these concepts were not around for SWG, No longer do developers HAVE to worry about a full blown expansion unless they want to.

SWTOR was created to be much like WoW as it is a themepark. SWG is a sandbox TWO different play styles and types of games. SWG didn't have space right away, yet everyone EXPECTS every game to follow to has it as part of the core.

Originally posted by superniceguy

SWG was only shut down because they knew that SWTOR was not up to scratch, and would SWTOR failed even more as people flocked back to SWG.

So what you are saying is that SWG failed because they knew SWTOR Was going to fail? That just sounds silly. Sandbox =/= themepark Those who liked Sandbox would have gone back, those that liked Themepark would have still left SWG.

A game shutting down does not always mean failure. SWG is one, and City of Heroes is another. Both closed due to arrogant business decisions.

Most games get 1-3 months notice for closure, SWG had a whopping 6 months and at the time of the closure announcment the populations were rising again due to free ongoing transfers, plus was shut down the day SWTOR gave early access = SWG was shut down because of SWTOR, and SWG was still succeeding / popular at the time of the closure announcement.

Also coincidentally in a PC Gamer article of behind the scenes with SWTOR, Dallas Dickinson (who was also responsible for the NGE) made major modifications of the game gutting loads of content, so the game would release earlier and not spend any longer being delayed and in development longer. This was 6 months before release - the same time when SWG was announced to shut down.

During the last six months of development, the team began a difficult triage process; where features that weren’t going to make it for launch were cut. All development heads were summoned to daily meetings at what Dallas dubbed ‘The Death Star’ – with each team being coached on what to cut, and what to keep. “Some developers cried,” explained Dallas. “I didn’t enjoy that.”

Smedley kept saying that SWTOR was going to be awesome and wondering if SWG would have had a playerbase, and with the SWG licence, did not take the chance, but he was only going by the hype of SWTOR from BW/EA the same as 2 million people who bought a copy at launch.  If he had a crystal ball and could see the fall of SWTOR in 2012, I doubt SWG would have shut down.

SOE decided to shut down SWG because he thought SWTOR was going to be a success, but LA were wanting to shut down SWG to ensure SW fans would only have SWTOR to play, and be no chance of going back to SWG, because after the gutting of SWTOR, they did not have confidence in SWTOR.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6341

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

5/04/13 11:56:31 AM#33

Timing has and seems to always be as important as the qaulity of a game.If wqe look at another sci fi spac type game,EVE it does about 1/4 what SWTOR does but has more success.Why?Well Eve was out first.no competition for that market.Gamers tend to be afraid to let go,if they spent months,years building a player in a game,they are not easily letting go.So although SWTOR is a muich better game than Eve,they won't get the players becuase the market share was already scooped by Eve.

Wow has it's market a lucky one based on brand new players who just wanted to play mmo's and picked the most marketed one.

We have a few pvp based gsames,they have their market share.That doesn't  leave much left.That is why games need to be creative,you can't simply plot down a npc with a marker over it's head and connect linear quests to them.You can't simply create that clone TREE system or the end game instance fights.All of that has been done so many times over ,players are either bored of it,or are already in a game playing that style.

There lies the problem,who exactly were EA or Biowares markleting team aiming for?The demographic tells me the type of gamer that is already comfortable in the same somewhere else.So very poor decision making.

MY opinion is that from day 1 they figured just having the great IP tag of SWTOR they figured toss a game out there  and it will make money.I am sure it did do ok for making money,but did little to excite keep the interest of gamers beyond it's title.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

5/04/13 12:00:51 PM#34

OP forgot

An Engine that isn't crap

End Game content that lasts longer thna a couple of dedicated weeks and is actually challenging.

*Ducks for cover from fanbois*

  DocBrody

Elite Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1183

 
OP  5/04/13 12:08:28 PM#35
SWG did not fail. Even after CU and NGE it was still the better game, 50% more WOW but still unique and it lasted 10 years as sub MMO and was shut down for SWTOR (99% WOW)
  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 5749

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

5/04/13 12:40:03 PM#36
Originally posted by doodphace
 

I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.

For one I didn't forget that the game was losing more and more player everyday well before the CU but that was more the case of most of us who enjoyed the game already wanted many things to be fixed they SOE ignored most of its actual playerbase and listend mostly to those "too much reading, too complex, jedi is to hard, not starwarsy enough" forum posters as they seemed to be in the majority...unfortunaly. Which in turn gave us the Combat Benny Hill Upgrade followed by the NGE which again was something we could have seen clearly coming if you had followed the forums and read the most common complaints about the game.

However on topic I don't believe SWtOR needs those things mentioned by OP, but a new Star Wars MMORPG could do well with those type of feature's. I say this mostly because I believe OP's suggestions can not be cooperated with SWtOR's current engine.

  baphamet

Elite Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2579

110100100

5/04/13 3:38:56 PM#37


Originally posted by deniter

Originally posted by baphamet  

Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge   luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather... swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done, because of the engines limitations
  disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong. one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.
hmm.. i thought they only have lost subs since the simplifying trend begun. i'm not saying WoW was too hardcore in the first place, but certainly they didn't win much by changing their design philosophy.

you don't think the fact that wow is 9 years old has anything to do with it?

i am not saying simple is better by any means, i am just saying that simple appeals to the masses more than hardcore unforgiving mmo's do.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 977

5/04/13 3:43:46 PM#38

SWG did not fail - nor was it  "closed" SWG because it was a "failure". SWG was clsoed because LucasArts did not renew SoE's licence - probably as part of their agreement with EA (removing the competition etc.)

(SWG did not meet sales expectations - although it probably wasn't a financial failure and what SOW did was a lesson in not what to do to the playerbase but that doesn't make SWG a "failure".)

 

  doodphace

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/19/12
Posts: 995

5/04/13 3:57:12 PM#39
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by sethman75
Originally posted by baphamet

 


Originally posted by simplius

Originally posted by RefMinor A reverse NGE.
yup, hardcore games attract most players, thats common knowledge

 

luckilly, there are no mmos, who have had success, by simplifying gameplay

and now a look at tomorrows bizzaro weather...

swtor need so many changes, that it would be easier and cheaper to make a new game

and use a GOOD and TESTED engine,,most of the changes in the OP cant be done,

because of the engines limitations


 

disagree with this, hardcore games actually don't attract more people, not sure what you are basing that off of but you are definitely wrong.

one only needs to look at wow to come to this conclusion. they copied a hardcore mmo design and simplified it all around and in came the masses.

Agree. Make it too hard and players will flock to something else.

Hardcore has and will always be a minority group

I love how pepople on these forums completely forget thet SWG Pre NGE was bleeding subs at an alarming rate.

Yes, that is correct....your mecca of sandbox games was failing hard...NGE was a last ditch effort to save it. Granted, the NGE made the game a lot worse, but nothing can hide the fact that Pre NGE SWG was going downhill fast. If it came out today, its population would dwindle faster that SWTOR.

SWG was not failing hard or fast. It peaked on Xfire in 2004, no doubnt with the JTL expansion, that is one year after release. It kept a steady amount of players until they started screwing around with the CU and NGE in 2005, but the numbers were not what LA wanted. None of the servers were as dead as SWTOR for years, and there were no server merges until 2009, which was 6 years after launch. SWTOR had server merges within 6 months.

I think if it came out today it would get more population, as at the end it had more features than most MMOs put together. People were mainly put off my the sweeping changes of the CU and NGE.

You are completely rerwiting history....NGE/CU was a direct result of their sub numbers dropping. There is no debating this....NGE was a last ditch effort to save the game, but it incidentially spead up its demise.

  PAL-18

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/14/13
Posts: 580

5/04/13 4:05:36 PM#40
  1.  What SWTOR really needs

  2. more stories and voice acting for people who are actually playing it and likes that kind of stuff.
  3. 2

So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014

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