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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » F2P saved TOR .... probably becoming standard

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110 posts found
  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

4/01/13 9:33:57 PM#101
Originally posted by superniceguy

F2P only saved it temporarily, as the game still has the same short attention life span as it did from launch, althought the F2P restrictions may slow people down. In June 2012 it still had more than 1 million subscribers.

-SNIP-

 

Exactly, this is just a temporary reprieve. I seriously doubt many of the planned "extra planets" will ever coem to fruition. Remember when they were talking pre-release about having the capability to add hundreds of new planets ?

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

4/02/13 8:24:26 AM#102
All MMOs are a gamble. By foregoing the monthly subscriptions (especially the long term 3, 6, and 12 month variety) every day becomes a gamble. It's hard to plan on long term development when in theory, your entire paying game population could melt away in a matter of days. SWTOR has tried to avoid this eventuality with its Freemium system. A tricky balancing act. So far they say it has worked for them, either despite or becasue their FTP system is far more restrictive then LOTRO for example.
  vadess40

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 38

4/02/13 9:45:35 AM#103
Originally posted by C_Glass
Nice to see some positive SWTOR news for a change, hard to imagine the infamous 'tortanic' is still the second most subbed game in the west. It sounds like F2P is going to sustain SWTOR for a VERY long time, it will be interesting to see how the game changes and evolves through the next few years. 

Agreed. Personally, I think F2P is the way of the future for MMOs in the long run with a more micro-transaction based system than the subscription based model. True, WOW is remaining stubborn but I guess it can get away with that with 3-5million players. 

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

4/02/13 11:06:42 AM#104

Originally posted by TheCrow2k


Originally posted by superniceguy

F2P only saved it temporarily, as the game still has the same short attention life span as it did from launch, althought the F2P restrictions may slow people down. In June 2012 it still had more than 1 million subscribers.

-SNIP-

 

Exactly, this is just a temporary reprieve. I seriously doubt many of the planned "extra planets" will ever coem to fruition. Remember when they were talking pre-release about having the capability to add hundreds of new planets ?

Originally posted by tiefighter25
All MMOs are a gamble. By foregoing the monthly subscriptions (especially the long term 3, 6, and 12 month variety) every day becomes a gamble. It's hard to plan on long term development when in theory, your entire paying game population could melt away in a matter of days. SWTOR has tried to avoid this eventuality with its Freemium system. A tricky balancing act. So far they say it has worked for them, either despite or becasue their FTP system is far more restrictive then LOTRO for example.

I think these posts sum things up.

2M accounts is not a vast number in F2P economics. Even if they all stick around the majority will spend little or nothing at all. Which does indeed make it a gamble.

F2P didn't save CoH nor did it save WAR: Wrath of Heroes.  LotR development has stopped. DDO did get an expansion however last year albeit 3 years after it went F2P so it can work after a fashion.

The big unknown on the horizon will be whether EA will renew the IP (assuming they have the option and Disney don't have plans of their own). If they decide not to then development will probably ccease sooner rather than later.

  azzamasin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2824

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

4/02/13 11:12:28 AM#105

I quit because of no LFD, and I've pretty much quit GW2 because of no LFD.  I also cite a lack of some sort of group finder for my quitting of Asheron's Call.

 

To include instanced dungeons and no way for players to join some sort of queue is the worst mistake a game can make.  Standing around spamming chat is not an ideal way for people to build communities regardless of how much people say it is.  PERIOD!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  BadOrb

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 772

4/02/13 11:54:36 AM#106
Originally posted by azzamasin

I quit because of no LFD, and I've pretty much quit GW2 because of no LFD.  I also cite a lack of some sort of group finder for my quitting of Asheron's Call.

 

To include instanced dungeons and no way for players to join some sort of queue is the worst mistake a game can make.  Standing around spamming chat is not an ideal way for people to build communities regardless of how much people say it is.  PERIOD!

It has a LFD now though , you tried it since then ? Yeah their original philosophy was that they didn't include one as they thought it wasn't a good way of building communites , but yeah they were wrong not to include one.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

4/02/13 11:59:55 AM#107
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by azzamasin

I quit because of no LFD, and I've pretty much quit GW2 because of no LFD.  I also cite a lack of some sort of group finder for my quitting of Asheron's Call.

 

To include instanced dungeons and no way for players to join some sort of queue is the worst mistake a game can make.  Standing around spamming chat is not an ideal way for people to build communities regardless of how much people say it is.  PERIOD!

It has a LFD now though , you tried it since then ? Yeah their original philosophy was that they didn't include one as they thought it wasn't a good way of building communites , but yeah they were wrong not to include one.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I generally didn't have a problem forming groups, although the lower levels were a little tougher to form from the fleet.  A simple LFG global channel (on / off) could have fixed many complaints.

 

I can't say I completely follow the arguments that LFG / LFD helps build communities.  It seems more focused on the instant gratification crowd who would rather just do something and quickly log out.

 

Subs / playtime continued to drop after LFG / LFD didn't they?  Hardly a feature everyone wanted to save the day.  The vocal minority probably believed it would save their game though, hence all the positive attitudes before implementation.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

4/02/13 4:07:15 PM#108
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by azzamasin

I quit because of no LFD, and I've pretty much quit GW2 because of no LFD.  I also cite a lack of some sort of group finder for my quitting of Asheron's Call.

 

To include instanced dungeons and no way for players to join some sort of queue is the worst mistake a game can make.  Standing around spamming chat is not an ideal way for people to build communities regardless of how much people say it is.  PERIOD!

It has a LFD now though , you tried it since then ? Yeah their original philosophy was that they didn't include one as they thought it wasn't a good way of building communites , but yeah they were wrong not to include one.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I generally didn't have a problem forming groups, although the lower levels were a little tougher to form from the fleet.  A simple LFG global channel (on / off) could have fixed many complaints.

 

I can't say I completely follow the arguments that LFG / LFD helps build communities.  It seems more focused on the instant gratification crowd who would rather just do something and quickly log out.

 

Subs / playtime continued to drop after LFG / LFD didn't they?  Hardly a feature everyone wanted to save the day.  The vocal minority probably believed it would save their game though, hence all the positive attitudes before implementation.

To be honest, I think the silent majority wanted a cross server LFG when the game had 250 empty servers. The vocal minority on the forums complained thta it would destroy server communities. Whether it be a philosophy, or technical restrictions (more likely the later since there are no cross-server war zones or server battle groups) SWTOR came out with the same server LFG.

The vocal minority declared it a victory for preserving server communities. Shortly thereafter the 250 servers were consolidated to 23 (Then 20, soon 17), destroying any server community they were arguing so mightily to preserve.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

4/03/13 3:04:57 PM#109
Originally posted by tiefighter25
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by azzamasin

I quit because of no LFD, and I've pretty much quit GW2 because of no LFD.  I also cite a lack of some sort of group finder for my quitting of Asheron's Call.

 

To include instanced dungeons and no way for players to join some sort of queue is the worst mistake a game can make.  Standing around spamming chat is not an ideal way for people to build communities regardless of how much people say it is.  PERIOD!

It has a LFD now though , you tried it since then ? Yeah their original philosophy was that they didn't include one as they thought it wasn't a good way of building communites , but yeah they were wrong not to include one.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I generally didn't have a problem forming groups, although the lower levels were a little tougher to form from the fleet.  A simple LFG global channel (on / off) could have fixed many complaints.

 

I can't say I completely follow the arguments that LFG / LFD helps build communities.  It seems more focused on the instant gratification crowd who would rather just do something and quickly log out.

 

Subs / playtime continued to drop after LFG / LFD didn't they?  Hardly a feature everyone wanted to save the day.  The vocal minority probably believed it would save their game though, hence all the positive attitudes before implementation.

To be honest, I think the silent majority wanted a cross server LFG when the game had 250 empty servers. The vocal minority on the forums complained thta it would destroy server communities. Whether it be a philosophy, or technical restrictions (more likely the later since there are no cross-server war zones or server battle groups) SWTOR came out with the same server LFG.

The vocal minority declared it a victory for preserving server communities. Shortly thereafter the 250 servers were consolidated to 23 (Then 20, soon 17), destroying any server community they were arguing so mightily to preserve.

Communities were destroyed, but LFG / LFD was more of an afterthought to save the game.  What destroyed SWTOR went beyond a simple fix.

 

Before release I still sided with no LFG / LFD.  I feel that philosophy worked well for WoW Vanilla / BC, and it was nice to know the people you play with on a regular basis.  Be it dungeons / flashpoints or battlegrounds / warzones.

 

When SWTOR started to tank, fans needed to grab onto something .. anything.  So rather than admit defeat and concede that the game really did need living worlds, day/night, sittable chairs, chatbubbles, Pazaak, Sabaac, Swoop Racing, free roam space flight, planatary flight, large worlds, etc, fans (maybe shills too, this is the official forums) latched onto a smoking gun that would bring this game back into WoW level competition.  LFG was the key!

 

I personally liked WoW Vanilla and BC with it's communities.  Play good and you have no trouble finding a group or starting one.  Play bad and get crickets.  When WoW's LFG game out it was fun at first because the mindset was there from people who used to make their own groups... then it changed to people who had no consequences and did as they pleased without a direct threat from the new community.  IMO the LFG / LFD feature on WoW was a technical marvel, but also a feature that shredded longevity .. again, for me.  Younger players who never expereinced how difficult it was to maintain personal reputation will flock to the lowest common denominator (along with other veterans too), namely "no-nonsense" auto grouping.

 

In conclusion, I think that an admirable attempt was made when the game launched to preserve communities.  When the game failed for other reasons, and communities fled, something else had to be done.  LFG promotions kept subscribers around, while EA went silent on merges (which is worse, LFG or merges?).  Merges still happened though - you are likely right about costs & technical limitations.  Cheaper to merge than to implement cross-realm.  Players got strung along for the ride.

 

ps - cross realm is worse than same-server LFG.  Way worse.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Xsorus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 174

4/03/13 5:35:06 PM#110
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by tiefighter25
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by azzamasin

I quit because of no LFD, and I've pretty much quit GW2 because of no LFD.  I also cite a lack of some sort of group finder for my quitting of Asheron's Call.

 

To include instanced dungeons and no way for players to join some sort of queue is the worst mistake a game can make.  Standing around spamming chat is not an ideal way for people to build communities regardless of how much people say it is.  PERIOD!

It has a LFD now though , you tried it since then ? Yeah their original philosophy was that they didn't include one as they thought it wasn't a good way of building communites , but yeah they were wrong not to include one.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

I generally didn't have a problem forming groups, although the lower levels were a little tougher to form from the fleet.  A simple LFG global channel (on / off) could have fixed many complaints.

 

I can't say I completely follow the arguments that LFG / LFD helps build communities.  It seems more focused on the instant gratification crowd who would rather just do something and quickly log out.

 

Subs / playtime continued to drop after LFG / LFD didn't they?  Hardly a feature everyone wanted to save the day.  The vocal minority probably believed it would save their game though, hence all the positive attitudes before implementation.

To be honest, I think the silent majority wanted a cross server LFG when the game had 250 empty servers. The vocal minority on the forums complained thta it would destroy server communities. Whether it be a philosophy, or technical restrictions (more likely the later since there are no cross-server war zones or server battle groups) SWTOR came out with the same server LFG.

The vocal minority declared it a victory for preserving server communities. Shortly thereafter the 250 servers were consolidated to 23 (Then 20, soon 17), destroying any server community they were arguing so mightily to preserve.

Communities were destroyed, but LFG / LFD was more of an afterthought to save the game.  What destroyed SWTOR went beyond a simple fix.

 

Before release I still sided with no LFG / LFD.  I feel that philosophy worked well for WoW Vanilla / BC, and it was nice to know the people you play with on a regular basis.  Be it dungeons / flashpoints or battlegrounds / warzones.

 

When SWTOR started to tank, fans needed to grab onto something .. anything.  So rather than admit defeat and concede that the game really did need living worlds, day/night, sittable chairs, chatbubbles, Pazaak, Sabaac, Swoop Racing, free roam space flight, planatary flight, large worlds, etc, fans (maybe shills too, this is the official forums) latched onto a smoking gun that would bring this game back into WoW level competition.  LFG was the key!

 

I personally liked WoW Vanilla and BC with it's communities.  Play good and you have no trouble finding a group or starting one.  Play bad and get crickets.  When WoW's LFG game out it was fun at first because the mindset was there from people who used to make their own groups... then it changed to people who had no consequences and did as they pleased without a direct threat from the new community.  IMO the LFG / LFD feature on WoW was a technical marvel, but also a feature that shredded longevity .. again, for me.  Younger players who never expereinced how difficult it was to maintain personal reputation will flock to the lowest common denominator (along with other veterans too), namely "no-nonsense" auto grouping.

 

In conclusion, I think that an admirable attempt was made when the game launched to preserve communities.  When the game failed for other reasons, and communities fled, something else had to be done.  LFG promotions kept subscribers around, while EA went silent on merges (which is worse, LFG or merges?).  Merges still happened though - you are likely right about costs & technical limitations.  Cheaper to merge than to implement cross-realm.  Players got strung along for the ride.

 

ps - cross realm is worse than same-server LFG.  Way worse.

 

While you wanting SWG2 is cute... TOR didn't start dropping in population till after Illum..

 

That was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos

Guild Wars 2 Ranger Video's

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