Somehow a good chunk of the thread seems to be devoted to a STO vs. SWTOR discussion.

Neither met expectations when launched. Both went to a Freemium system. One started smallish and is now slowly growing, one started huge and is still shrinking. One release content faster then the other. How fun this content is is a matter of personal prefrence. (Although one has space combat and one does not.)

To the main point of the thread; it seems 1.8/2.o on the PTS has stopped the population drop at least for now. When I say stop, it hasn't really recaptured numbers in the way many people were implying.

Oddly the Europan servers, only the German ones are growing. On the US, 2 servers are growing, one PVE and one PVP. The APAC servers are dissmal.

As to SWTOR's FTP competition, it seems Terra and POE, although still large in population size, have peaked.

Speculative: Although Makeb will draw in many subbers, it will cause further churn to the FTP population. This won't speak to profitability, but it will highlight the niche aspect of SWTOR's gaming population.

Just a suggestion, if you don't particulairly like threads llike this, just don't read them.

The latest patch change will now be that commendations will be weekly capped.  Whoa, good move EA, great job revealing how  you desperately want to extend your customers playtime!

Game Update 2.0: Currency System

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/feature/23297-game-update-2-0-currency-system

I liked being able to play when I wanted to, how I wanted to .. now every commendation will become capped "weeklies".

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by simplius

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

everybody have their own taste

both games still have bugs,,but STO is the innovative of those two

i dont know about sub numbers, but i think STO staff are more safe than SWTOR

and STO have added a lot of new stuff lately,,space walks, a new zone

and ..oh yea,,STO have REAL SPACE COMBAT

NOT a small mini game

and RIFT?  i woud be surprised if they have more than 300k

 

TOR's bugs are no where near the problem that STO's are. Not even close.Every game has its bugs but when it becomes a problem is when they are so frequent that they burden the gameplay. If I was to guess the number of players in STO it wouldn't even be close to 100k. The game is dead every time I pop in.  The space combat in STO is good but the ground combat sucks. Every planet and building looks the same and the combat is jerky and slow response. 

And not that innovation matters more than fun, but what is so innovative about STO? The best part of it which is space was ripped off from Starfeel Command. 

okay,,a bugged class story boss is  more serious , than some rubberbanding

and if it is dead,,why do you keep playing it?

innovative?  lets see,,ground combat,,the fact , that i have 4 customizable BOs with me,,swtor can handle one

semi customizable

the random cluster missions,,also a new concept,still not working perfect

but hey,,lets talk again, when swtor is 3 years old

seeing what they did for STO anniversery,,,would they really do that if the game was dying

no,,now they have finally reached the point, they should have started at

it only took 3 years,,but better late, than never

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

 

I don't know since when it was ok when devs make a statement 'after working for 2 to 3 years we are releasing a bare bone MMO and would love to have feedback from players to expand it further".

That is biggest bull i have ever read really.  And someone is actually giving a Cryptic free pass on this just to spite on SWTOR? amazing.

Look at his avatar. Anyone that loves SOE can over look anything. I enjoy TOR, but I don't go out of my way to make a sales pitch about how great Bioware is and overlook the faults in the game. That type of behavior just seems odd to me.

Bioware > SOE
Blizzard > SOE
TRION > SOE
ArenaNet > SOE
SOE = Crap

Welcome to the club!

Personally I liked Bioware, but they no longer exist and are just a division of EA, and the Doctors left to escape the disaster called SWTOR.  Any games relesed now under Bioware will probably just be average, whereas when they were in full control and did not have EA/LA/Dallas Dickinson breathing down their necks, they were above average. It was Dallas Dickinson that encouraged the NGE, and it was Dallas Dickinson that made devs cut a lot of out of SWTOR and made them cry and made the game so shallow that me and many others do not like it. Dallas Dickinson is the one who ruined both SWG and SWTOR, not SOE or Bioware.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Somehow a good chunk of the thread seems to be devoted to a STO vs. SWTOR discussion.

Neither met expectations when launched. Both went to a Freemium system. One started smallish and is now slowly growing, one started huge and is still shrinking. One release content faster then the other. How fun this content is is a matter of personal prefrence. (Although one has space combat and one does not.)

To the main point of the thread; it seems 1.8/2.o on the PTS has stopped the population drop at least for now. When I say stop, it hasn't really recaptured numbers in the way many people were implying.

Oddly the Europan servers, only the German ones are growing. On the US, 2 servers are growing, one PVE and one PVP. The APAC servers are dissmal.

As to SWTOR's FTP competition, it seems Terra and POE, although still large in population size, have peaked.

Speculative: Although Makeb will draw in many subbers, it will cause further churn to the FTP population. This won't speak to profitability, but it will highlight the niche aspect of SWTOR's gaming population.

Just a suggestion, if you don't particulairly like threads llike this, just don't read them.

Is that what we are calling the MMOS which release with minimal content and heavy instanced world these days? 'smallish' ? not to mention all the BS they give you before release and end product is nothing like what devs said it would be?

And ofcourse Star Trek has space combat. It would be hard to imagine Star Trek without space.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by tiefighter25

One started smallish

Is that what we are calling the MMOS which release with minimal content and heavy instanced world these days? 'smallish' ? not to mention all the BS they give you before release and end product is nothing like what devs said it would be?

And ofcourse Star Trek has space combat. It would be hard to imagine Star Trek without space.

At first I wasn't sure if you were talking about Star Trek or Star Wars.

I used the term smallish in direct comparison, one was in development for 6 years+ at Bioware, one for - 2 years at Cryptic.

One had a SUperbowl Ad and one was sponsored by Del Taco.

I do agree though, that any game with the word Star in it would probably be better served with having space combat then not having it. Even the Space Marines have starships.

All that aside, STO vs. ToR are in similar boats, but that doesn't speak directly as to the health of ToR's server populations.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by tiefighter25

One started smallish

Is that what we are calling the MMOS which release with minimal content and heavy instanced world these days? 'smallish' ? not to mention all the BS they give you before release and end product is nothing like what devs said it would be?

And ofcourse Star Trek has space combat. It would be hard to imagine Star Trek without space.

At first I wasn't sure if you were talking about Star Trek or Star Wars.

I used the term smallish in direct comparison, one was in development for 6 years+ at Bioware, one for - 2 years at Cryptic.

One had a SUperbowl Ad and one was sponsored by Del Taco.

I do agree though, that any game with the word Star in it would probably be better served with having space combat then not having it. Even the Space Marines have starships.

All that aside, STO vs. ToR are in similar boats, but that doesn't speak directly as to the health of ToR's server populations.

Considering you are the one whp is apologising for Cryptic by calling the failure that STO was at launch a smallish..i am pretty sure you know what game i was talking about. I could care less for SWTOR . My whole purpose of posting in this thread is to point out the irony and hypocricy of people who bash SWTOR for releasing with minimal content  and apologise for Crytpic in same breath.

Cryptic rushed the development to release faster and grab as many subs as possible because they knew they had a disaster on their hand (lifetime membership..yeah we saw it coming). You make it sound as if rushing a MMO in 2 years is some how a good thing.

As far as server population goes. The servers have been dying since release and will cpntinue to die for another 10 years..just like how STO was suppossed to be dead after 6 months of release and will continue to die every 6 months for many years to come.

If I give the impression of being an STO fan or apologist, well that was not my intention. Both SWTOR and STO flamed quickly and brightly. I was only pointing out that one had a larger budget and time comitted to it; and that the two are taking slightly different approaches to post P2P.

Which is better is subjective.

I also said that STO had little bearing to the thread's topic.

Your analysis of projected long term pops of both games is most likely accurate.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

 My whole purpose of posting in this thread is to point out the irony and hypocricy of people who bash SWTOR for releasing with minimal content  and apologise for Crytpic in same breath.

 

Ah so that is where the confusion and misunderstanding has come from.

I personally do not care that any MMO launches with minimal content, as long as it gets enougfh added over time, and SWTOR failed this of all MMOs I have played. 

EA/BW seemed to be all over SWTOR until about June-July, before the F2P announcement, but then it just went south fast with sub numbers declining, SWTOR dropping in priority which I think went below Tiger Woods or something, the mass layoffs, including main BW people, and then the Doctors themselves, plus it went to F2P, and EA saying that it needs 500K subs to break even and the performance was "not good enough"

It took STO 2 years to go F2P, but SWTOR went F2P in less than a year, even though it had way more population than STO or any MMO. The reason being is that it was declining so fast that they would not have been able to sustain it as needed 500K subs. It does not need 500K subs, but does still need $7.5 million, which they hoped they would get with subs and the cartel market.

There is nothing that they are doing to the game, that was not already mentioned by about June. They announced Makeb in June as a free big content update, along with a level cap to 55, and it would all be in game before the end of 2012. It probably would have been in by now if the F2P was a financial success, but as it has not been they have just delayed it, and dragged it out, as they do not have enough money to sustain the game, and pay devs to make more content. STO does not have this problem, as it does not have huge costs to deal with, and so content and updates are coming thick and fast.

It may be OK for some, but content is coming in way too slow to enjoy SWTOR, and so the snowball of decline grows bigger and bigger. The majority of the content being added is on the Cartel Market for people to PAY MORE, not play more. SWTOR has turnied into a money pit due to its costs, whereas STO is all about fun as is cheaply made.  SWTOR for its 1 year anniversary got fireworks in the Cartel Market. STO for its 3rd year anniversary got a couple of events and FREE goodiees from them. People get fed up of waiting and then go play something else, then they get less money again, and then content just comes even slower. It is not just me, people on the official forums have noticed that there has been no new content mentioned since June.

With all things said by EA and their actions, the game was progressing until about June, and then stopped dead, whereas STO just kept on ticking, and progressed loads within its first year (more so than SWTOR has done), and Cryptic/Perfect World not expecting masses of players, and do not say it is "not good enough" and always focus on the game and the positives whereas EA just try and excuse all the bad stuff that has happened.  It is almost as if EA is warning players loudly that the game will not see past 2013, and has no future.

STO was only being discussed heavily as ktanner brought it up against me, but replace STO with almost any MMO and the same thing applies. SWTOR is unique because it needs 500k subs ($7.5 million) to break even and it does not look like it is getting it. Other MMOs do not need this many people paying

SWTOR does not have enough in game to keep me interested, once you have a few max level characters I feel there is nothing else to do. This game had a lot of potential but EA/BW messed it up over a very short span of time.

When F2P was released they still had stuff subsciption based players still had to use coins to unlock and still had to get more coins once the small amount they give you per month was gone. This setup was an absolute slap in the face even for the ones willing to pay a sub for and thats why a lot of subscibers also left the game. Not sure how much of the F2P model has changed since the launch but it was a joke. 

Originally posted by sancher36

SWTOR does not have enough in game to keep me interested, once you have a few max level characters I feel there is nothing else to do. This game had a lot of potential but EA/BW messed it up over a very short span of time.

When F2P was released they still had stuff subsciption based players still had to use coins to unlock and still had to get more coins once the small amount they give you per month was gone. This setup was an absolute slap in the face even for the ones willing to pay a sub for and thats why a lot of subscibers also left the game. Not sure how much of the F2P model has changed since the launch but it was a joke. 

I disagree with this vehemntly, aside from the FP's. OP's, and PvP, I decided to take each char to obtain my HK-51, another series of quests and objectives. I didn't even have time to try the Gree event.[mod edit] The game is fine and getting better. Don't like it, don;t play... move along, nothing to see here.

Originally posted by Ppiper

Originally posted by sancher36

SWTOR does not have enough in game to keep me interested, once you have a few max level characters I feel there is nothing else to do. This game had a lot of potential but EA/BW messed it up over a very short span of time.

When F2P was released they still had stuff subsciption based players still had to use coins to unlock and still had to get more coins once the small amount they give you per month was gone. This setup was an absolute slap in the face even for the ones willing to pay a sub for and thats why a lot of subscibers also left the game. Not sure how much of the F2P model has changed since the launch but it was a joke. 

I disagree with this vehemntly, aside from the FP's. OP's, and PvP, I decided to take each char to obtain my HK-51, another series of quests and objectives. I didn't even have time to try the Gree event.[mod edit] The game is fine and getting better. Don't like it, don;t play... move along, nothing to see here.

I liked the game originally but as I said it got boring after leveling a few characters. The game also has content too but I have seen other mmos with with even more. In my opinion I enjoyed starwars galaxies more than this game before sony messed it up. The only mmo to hold my interest for a long time was LOTRO. It was very well done even when they went F2P they did a great job with the choices they made. LOTRO F2P does not feel like an extended DEMO like SWTOR F2P model.

In the end SWTOR could have been heaps better.