Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

I did not mean there should be no cut scenes literally.  Just whatever was cost effective for them to progress and update the game better and faster. The way SWTOR is designed with all its cut scenes is certainly not cost effective.

STO has cutscenes but does not break their bank, nor is the game plastered with them. I prefer STO over SWTOR because of 1) Space Combat 2) The devs are more commited to the game than EA/BW are to SWTOR and 3) Having a LT account and a free account, the difference between the 2 are small, the differences between a subbed account and a free account in SWTOR are huge.

 

 

I prefer TOR over STO because

1.) The leveling process is so much more fun. The missions in STO are incredibly boring and even the added cutscenes haven't improved that. In TOR, I have a much better connection with my character and more control over his actions. In STO, your character just stands there with his lips closed while text is thrown up there. You're limited to watching a scene instead of acting in it. Adding cutscenes with dialogue choices is what seperates TOR from every other game. After experiencing that, it's impossible for me to go back to a game like WOW or Rift. I can understand that some don't care for that, but regardless it IS a major difference between TOR and other games. 

2.) Performance. Even after three years STO is a bug filled mess. On a system that can run many games without trouble I still have problems with jerkiness in STO. The only bugs I have ever encountered in TOR is in flashpoints and they are extremely rare and don't hinder my ability to successfully complete them. In STO there is bugs on missions that prevent you from completing them. I still have companions that get stuck. I still have issues with my officers being taken off my ship and unable to put them in their slots so I can use their abilities during combat. I don't experience any of these problems in TOR. The only time I experience lag in TOR is when there is hundreds of people in the same shard. With STO I experience it when I'm by myself completing a mission. The game has the most horrible performance of any game I've played since SWG. 

3.) loading screens. TOR has them when you go from planet to planet but STO has them for almost every building you enter and every shaft you go up.I never had an issue with loading screens until I played STO.  I've logged off from STO because there were some missions that I was seeing more loading screen than gameplay. The only annoyance in TOR is when going from ship to planet. Once you're on the planet you don't see a loading screen again until you've leveled up and are ready to leave it and if you want to you can use your quick travel.

That's just three of the big reasons because IMO STO isn't even in the same league as TOR. I'm sure the suckers that paid that lifetime sub to STO feel real good about players being able to experience almost everything in game. I'm glad that in TOR you don't get a free easy ride at FTP. It lets players know what is available in game while keeping the freeloaders out. 

 

True on all accounts, and 3 months in SWTOR > 3 months in STO but SWTOR is dead / stuck in maintenance mode yet STO keeps on ticking with update after update after update, with plenty of crap gameplay to keep you amused. SWTOR just simply has nothing to keep you amused, and even yourself said you can only do the same content so many times before it goes stale.. When Makeb was announced, Season 6 went in, and since then had Season 7 announced AND in which brought a new planet and quests like Makeb for FREE, and now shortly will have Season 8, due around the same time as Makeb, with Season 9 planned for later in the year.

TOR has added plenty of new content since the game came out. They just had the 1.7 update which completely changed Ilum and added a reputation system, the 2.0 which is on test center raises the level cap and revamps the skill system and Makeb is the next expansion coming out in the spring of all new content. I'd rather have slightly fewer updates of good ,smooth running content rather than a rash of updates that is a jerky filled mess. Every one has their pet peeves and a game that runs without frustration is my biggest one. 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best out of STO, while EA/BW have just given up on SWTOR. They had enough devs on the game, to make mince meat of STO, but they have clearly failed.

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

everybody have their own taste

both games still have bugs,,but STO is the innovative of those two

i dont know about sub numbers, but i think STO staff are more safe than SWTOR

and STO have added a lot of new stuff lately,,space walks, a new zone

and ..oh yea,,STO have REAL SPACE COMBAT

NOT a small mini game

and RIFT?  i woud be surprised if they have more than 300k

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

What people are paying for in SWTOR is NOTHING. IT is to pay for the stuff that has already been developed. It is like paying a monthly fee to Mass Effect 3. All single player games are better constructed than MMOs. I always thought that KOTOR was a better made game than SWG, but KOTOR is just a great limited play time game, and TOR is no different, but burdened with an unecessary monthly fee.

"A washed up actrees"? Really? You have to insult others now too? At least they trying

Makeb is older than Season 7

STO is not meant to be huge, it is only meant to be a niche game, so it can handle the small playerbase.

When STO launched they said that it would be a bare bones MMO, and they look forward to getting players feedback to shape and progress the game, and they have not failed yet. They did do it and they are still doing it. They care more about the game than EA does for SWTOR, who only care about the $$$. STO gets improvements every day, and more update more features, and more advancements whereas SWTOR is what it is, and mostly will be what it is for the rest of its life, because the game flopped and they are not pouring any more money into it. They said in 2008 they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which they do not now. If they had, they would pouring it into the game.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

What people are paying for in SWTOR is NOTHING. IT is to pay for the stuff that has already been developed. It is like paying a monthly fee to Mass Effect 3. All single player games are better constructed than MMOs. I always thought that KOTOR was a better made game than SWG, but KOTOR is just a great limited play time game, and TOR is no different, but burdened with an unecessary monthly fee.

STO is not meant to be huge, it is only meant to be a niche game, so it can handle the small playerbase.

When STO launched they said that it would be a bare bones MMO, and they look forward to getting players feedback to shape and progress the game, and they have not failed yet. They did do it and they are still doing it. They care more about the game than EA does for SWTOR, who only care about the $$$. STO gets improvements every day, and more update more features, and more advancements whereas SWTOR is what it is, and mostly will be what it is for the rest of its life, because the game flopped and they are not pouring any more money into it. They said in 2008 they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which they do not now. If they had, they would pouring it into the game.

 

They said that? where and when? so you are telling us that the lynching that Crytpic took from angry ST fans and MMO players in general at release (which puts SWTOR bashign to shame by the way) was just lack of information on part of the players? and Cryptic has always ben honest and stated hat they are releasing a bare bone MMO? wow....lol!

People sure love to make up stuff as they go around here to win an argument.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

What people are paying for in SWTOR is NOTHING. IT is to pay for the stuff that has already been developed. It is like paying a monthly fee to Mass Effect 3. All single player games are better constructed than MMOs. I always thought that KOTOR was a better made game than SWG, but KOTOR is just a great limited play time game, and TOR is no different, but burdened with an unecessary monthly fee.

STO is not meant to be huge, it is only meant to be a niche game, so it can handle the small playerbase.

When STO launched they said that it would be a bare bones MMO, and they look forward to getting players feedback to shape and progress the game, and they have not failed yet. They did do it and they are still doing it. They care more about the game than EA does for SWTOR, who only care about the $$$. STO gets improvements every day, and more update more features, and more advancements whereas SWTOR is what it is, and mostly will be what it is for the rest of its life, because the game flopped and they are not pouring any more money into it. They said in 2008 they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which they do not now. If they had, they would pouring it into the game.

 

They said that? where and when? so you are telling us that the lynching that Crytpic took from angry ST fans and MMO players in general at release (which puts SWTOR bashign to shame by the way) was just lack of information on part of the players? and Cryptic has always ben honest and stated hat they are releasing a bare bone MMO? wow....lol!

People sure love to make up stuff as they go around here to win an argument.

It is not made up, It is in one of my magazines with an interview with the devs

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

What people are paying for in SWTOR is NOTHING. IT is to pay for the stuff that has already been developed. It is like paying a monthly fee to Mass Effect 3. All single player games are better constructed than MMOs. I always thought that KOTOR was a better made game than SWG, but KOTOR is just a great limited play time game, and TOR is no different, but burdened with an unecessary monthly fee.

STO is not meant to be huge, it is only meant to be a niche game, so it can handle the small playerbase.

When STO launched they said that it would be a bare bones MMO, and they look forward to getting players feedback to shape and progress the game, and they have not failed yet. They did do it and they are still doing it. They care more about the game than EA does for SWTOR, who only care about the $$$. STO gets improvements every day, and more update more features, and more advancements whereas SWTOR is what it is, and mostly will be what it is for the rest of its life, because the game flopped and they are not pouring any more money into it. They said in 2008 they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which they do not now. If they had, they would pouring it into the game.

 

They said that? where and when? so you are telling us that the lynching that Crytpic took from angry ST fans and MMO players in general at release (which puts SWTOR bashign to shame by the way) was just lack of information on part of the players? and Cryptic has always ben honest and stated hat they are releasing a bare bone MMO? wow....lol!

People sure love to make up stuff as they go around here to win an argument.

It is not made up, It is in one of my magazines with an interview with the devs

 

Sorry if i don't believe you. Mind posting a link here or something? i bet they would make such an important annoucement at more than one venue considering the shit storm that started when STO released which led to its downfall and hence F2P conversion. bare bone MMO release doesn't cover all the broken content, bugs, exploits and other zillion problems at release though (stuck in space dock...nightmare which still exists after so many years).

Not to mention the biggest reason why it got so much hate.. the heavily instanced and boxed in world of STO with hilariously small maps. By expanding they meant adding more instances on top of the existing ones?

it is in my magazine..how convenient.

Originally posted by simplius

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

everybody have their own taste

both games still have bugs,,but STO is the innovative of those two

i dont know about sub numbers, but i think STO staff are more safe than SWTOR

and STO have added a lot of new stuff lately,,space walks, a new zone

and ..oh yea,,STO have REAL SPACE COMBAT

NOT a small mini game

and RIFT?  i woud be surprised if they have more than 300k

 

TOR's bugs are no where near the problem that STO's are. Not even close.Every game has its bugs but when it becomes a problem is when they are so frequent that they burden the gameplay. If I was to guess the number of players in STO it wouldn't even be close to 100k. The game is dead every time I pop in.  The space combat in STO is good but the ground combat sucks. Every planet and building looks the same and the combat is jerky and slow response. 

And not that innovation matters more than fun, but what is so innovative about STO? The best part of it which is space was ripped off from Starfeel Command. 

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

They said that? where and when? so you are telling us that the lynching that Crytpic took from angry ST fans and MMO players in general at release (which puts SWTOR bashign to shame by the way) was just lack of information on part of the players? and Cryptic has always ben honest and stated hat they are releasing a bare bone MMO? wow....lol!

People sure love to make up stuff as they go around here to win an argument.

It is not made up, It is in one of my magazines with an interview with the devs

 

Sorry if i don't believe you. Mind posting a link here or something? i bet they would make such an important annoucement at more than one venue considering the shit storm that started when STO released which led to its downfall and hence F2P conversion. bare bone MMO release doesn't cover all the broken content, bugs, exploits and other zillion problems at release though (stuck in space dock...nightmare which still exists after so many years).

Not to mention the biggest reason why it got so much hate.. the heavily instanced and boxed in world of STO with hilariously small maps. By expanding they meant adding more instances on top of the existing ones?

it is in my magazine..how convenient.

The only time I remember a comment like that was a few months before launch when it became known that the Klingon faction was going to be gimped compared to the Fedederation. No mission chain of story content . To level you had to do repetitive zones and PVP.  After the rain of shitstorm hit a dev popped up and said that Klingons would be getting more in the future. They're still waiting. 

By the way, this was all after they had been telling everybody how it was going to be no problem releasing an MMO after only two years development time. Probably the biggest lie of them all. 

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

What SWTOR has had and is getting is stuff that is already done, and nothing new, unlike STO, which got Denise Crosby to voice her char Tasha Yar. in the event added for the 3 year anniversary. That took less than 1 month to do.

Congratulations. They were able to get a washed up actress to record some dialogue. Big whoopty doo. And I don't know where you're getting this "SWTOR is getting stuff that isn't new" from. Just because it was in the planning stages  last year doesn't mean that it is old. The content doesn't become "old" until has been live on the servers for a long time. Since Makeb hasn't even been released yet, it isn't old. 

Perfect World are totally commited to making the best o....

You can spare me the sales pitch. I play the game from time to time and know better. 

I may sub again when Makeb comes, and play a bit more than a few mins here and there in F2P, but STO is always getting stuff, and being sucked into the game, on a constant basis. Considering that PW are probably not getting as much revenue from STO as what SWTOR generates, it is quite amazing really, it makes you wonder what it is you are really paying for with SWTOR

 

It's not too hard to figure out what I'm paying for. Five minutes of playing STO is always a good reminder of how inferior that game is and how badly it is lacking. They can't even get one server going that isn't a bug fested nightmare. The only reason I pop in there from time to time is to get my Star Trek fix. I can neverr make it more than a couple of hours because the missions for the most part are incredibly dull and the performance sucks.  I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but for me it can't even hold Rift's jock strap let alone TOR's. 

What people are paying for in SWTOR is NOTHING. IT is to pay for the stuff that has already been developed. It is like paying a monthly fee to Mass Effect 3. All single player games are better constructed than MMOs. I always thought that KOTOR was a better made game than SWG, but KOTOR is just a great limited play time game, and TOR is no different, but burdened with an unecessary monthly fee.

STO is not meant to be huge, it is only meant to be a niche game, so it can handle the small playerbase.

When STO launched they said that it would be a bare bones MMO, and they look forward to getting players feedback to shape and progress the game, and they have not failed yet. They did do it and they are still doing it. They care more about the game than EA does for SWTOR, who only care about the $$$. STO gets improvements every day, and more update more features, and more advancements whereas SWTOR is what it is, and mostly will be what it is for the rest of its life, because the game flopped and they are not pouring any more money into it. They said in 2008 they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which they do not now. If they had, they would pouring it into the game.

 

They said that? where and when? so you are telling us that the lynching that Crytpic took from angry ST fans and MMO players in general at release (which puts SWTOR bashign to shame by the way) was just lack of information on part of the players? and Cryptic has always ben honest and stated hat they are releasing a bare bone MMO? wow....lol!

People sure love to make up stuff as they go around here to win an argument.

It is not made up, It is in one of my magazines with an interview with the devs

 

Sorry if i don't believe you. Mind posting a link here or something? i bet they would make such an important annoucement at more than one venue considering the shit storm that started when STO released which led to its downfall and hence F2P conversion. bare bone MMO release doesn't cover all the broken content, bugs, exploits and other zillion problems at release though (stuck in space dock...nightmare which still exists after so many years).

Not to mention the biggest reason why it got so much hate.. the heavily instanced and boxed in world of STO with hilariously small maps. By expanding they meant adding more instances on top of the existing ones?

it is in my magazine..how convenient.

It makes no difference, the proof is in the progrress. People just wanted a full game at release and not have to pay for it while they make it more of a complete game, that is why it got the lynching.

It is why SWTOR failed too, but as it is more of a complete game at launch, and the subs plumetted from 2 mill to 500K and went F2P faster than STO did, and was a MMO intended to be P2P for a very long long time, like WOW, then they are mot willing to put more money into it, advancing it along as intended.  If people never quit SWTOR and trusted EA/BW for at least a year, they may have had enough money to move it along quite nicely.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

They said that? where and when? so you are telling us that the lynching that Crytpic took from angry ST fans and MMO players in general at release (which puts SWTOR bashign to shame by the way) was just lack of information on part of the players? and Cryptic has always ben honest and stated hat they are releasing a bare bone MMO? wow....lol!

People sure love to make up stuff as they go around here to win an argument.

It is not made up, It is in one of my magazines with an interview with the devs

 

Sorry if i don't believe you. Mind posting a link here or something? i bet they would make such an important annoucement at more than one venue considering the shit storm that started when STO released which led to its downfall and hence F2P conversion. bare bone MMO release doesn't cover all the broken content, bugs, exploits and other zillion problems at release though (stuck in space dock...nightmare which still exists after so many years).

Not to mention the biggest reason why it got so much hate.. the heavily instanced and boxed in world of STO with hilariously small maps. By expanding they meant adding more instances on top of the existing ones?

it is in my magazine..how convenient.

The only time I remember a comment like that was a few months before launch when it became known that the Klingon faction was going to be gimped compared to the Fedederation. No mission chain of story content . To level you had to do repetitive zones and PVP.  After the rain of shitstorm hit a dev popped up and said that Klingons would be getting more in the future. They're still waiting. 

By the way, this was all after they had been telling everybody how it was going to be no problem releasing an MMO after only two years development time. Probably the biggest lie of them all. 

I don't know since when it was ok when devs make a statement 'after working for 2 to 3 years we are releasing a bare bone MMO and would love to have feedback from players to expand it further".

That is biggest bull i have ever read really.  And someone is actually giving a Cryptic free pass on this just to spite on SWTOR? amazing.

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

It makes no difference, the proof is in the progrress. People just wanted a full game at release and not have to pay for it while they make it more of a complete game, that is why it got the lynching.

It is why SWTOR failed too, but as it is more of a complete game at launch, and the subs plumetted from 2 mill to 500K and went F2P faster than STO did, and was a MMO intended to be P2P for a very long long time, like WOW, then they are mot willing to put more money into it, advancing it along as intended.  If people never quit SWTOR and trusted EA/BW for at least a year, they may have had enough money to move it along quite nicely.

No it makes all the difference because i hate it when people sping things by making up their own stuff. I like to deal in relevant and factual information and since you cant come up with any relevant source of info to share with us  other than 'your' magazine, you just made it very easy for me to  shrug aside anything you say regarding STO's past as well as present.

And who can forget infamous skill cap changes to STO? Cryptic has done alot more than just to release a bare bone MMO to piss off the players.

Also i find it ironic that you are ok with Cryptic releasing bare bone MMO and yet you bash on SWTOR every single day. And sorry but no other MMO crashed and burned as fast as STO on release..well maybe Warhammer and AOC.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

 

I don't know since when it was ok when devs make a statement 'after working for 2 to 3 years we are releasing a bare bone MMO and would love to have feedback from players to expand it further".

That is biggest bull i have ever read really.  And someone is actually giving a Cryptic free pass on this just to spite on SWTOR? amazing.

Look at his avatar. Anyone that loves SOE can over look anything. I enjoy TOR, but I don't go out of my way to make a sales pitch about how great Bioware is and overlook the faults in the game. That type of behavior just seems odd to me.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

It makes no difference, the proof is in the progrress. People just wanted a full game at release and not have to pay for it while they make it more of a complete game, that is why it got the lynching.

It is why SWTOR failed too, but as it is more of a complete game at launch, and the subs plumetted from 2 mill to 500K and went F2P faster than STO did, and was a MMO intended to be P2P for a very long long time, like WOW, then they are mot willing to put more money into it, advancing it along as intended.  If people never quit SWTOR and trusted EA/BW for at least a year, they may have had enough money to move it along quite nicely.

No it makes all the differennce because i hate it when people sping things by making up their own stuff. I like to deal in relevant and factual information and since you cant come up with any relevant source of info to share with us  other than 'your' magazine, you just made it very easy for me to  shrug aside anything you say regarding STO's past as well as present.

Also i find it ironic that you are ok with Cryptic releasing bare bone MMO and yet you bash on SWTOR every single day. And sorry but no other MMO crashed and burned as fast as STO on release..well maybe Warhammer and AOC.

Whatever, I do not care if you believe me or not, prety much expected if there is no link. If you are not going to like what I say then you are going to try and discredit itmbut you seem to be making a mole hill out of a mountain with it. At the end of the day I do not post stuff that is made up as it just a waste of time. I could dig it out and scan take a photo but it is not worth it. If I do end up going to the trouble and you see it, no doubt you will try and spin it to your favour again.

I do not have an issue with a bare bone MMO, as the devs can create the game for the fans and desires, SWTOR is created by what EA/BW think the fans want. SWTOR just took off and went high and then crash landed, and is going no where.  STO took off low, and slowly moving along but onwards and upwards. Either the engine for SWTOR can not add many varied features or they are not willing to improve the game any more, as needs millions of dollars they are not willing to spend any more on the game. STO has a future, but SWTOR does not.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

It makes no difference, the proof is in the progrress. People just wanted a full game at release and not have to pay for it while they make it more of a complete game, that is why it got the lynching.

It is why SWTOR failed too, but as it is more of a complete game at launch, and the subs plumetted from 2 mill to 500K and went F2P faster than STO did, and was a MMO intended to be P2P for a very long long time, like WOW, then they are mot willing to put more money into it, advancing it along as intended.  If people never quit SWTOR and trusted EA/BW for at least a year, they may have had enough money to move it along quite nicely.

No it makes all the differennce because i hate it when people sping things by making up their own stuff. I like to deal in relevant and factual information and since you cant come up with any relevant source of info to share with us  other than 'your' magazine, you just made it very easy for me to  shrug aside anything you say regarding STO's past as well as present.

Also i find it ironic that you are ok with Cryptic releasing bare bone MMO and yet you bash on SWTOR every single day. And sorry but no other MMO crashed and burned as fast as STO on release..well maybe Warhammer and AOC.

Whatever, I do not care if you believe me or not, prety much expected if there is no link. If you are not going to like what I say then you are going to try and discredit itmbut you seem to be making a mole hill out of a mountain with it. At the end of the day I do not post stuff that is made up as it just a waste of time. I could dig it out and scan take a photo but it is not worth it. If I do end up going to the trouble and you see it, no doubt you will try and spin it to your favour again.

You are right i don't. Asking people to back up their info about what an 'x' company stated in official capacity is not making mountain out of the mole but is a way to give more credibility to the point you are trying to make. Ofcourse, if you want others to take what you say more seriously in future.

I do not have an issue with a bare bone MMO, as the devs can create the game for the fans and desires, SWTOR is created by what EA/BW think the fans want. SWTOR just took off and went high and then crash landed, and is going no where.  STO took off low, and slowly moving along but onwards and upwards. Either the engine for SWTOR can not add many varied features or they are not willing to improve the game any more, as needs millions of dollars they are not willing to spend any more on the game. STO has a future, but SWTOR does not.

I am neither a STO fan or SWTOR fan but from where i stand botth are on the same path for me..moving forward. As far as what fans want, Cryptic's sales pitch at one of the press releases is still very famous on you tube by the way where they served a lot of BS to fans where as the actual release ended up nothing like what head honchos of Crytpic said iot would be. Instead it was heavily instanced game with no content for Klingon side.

It is hard to just go back to beginning after hearing so many lies.

Atleast Bioware have been very honest from day one and mentioned many times SWTOR is not SWG and never will be.

I am not biased or have any agenda against any MMOS. But it doesn't take a genius to see that you are using Crytpic's shoulder to fire your gun at Bioware.For me Cryptic is worse than Bioware ever will be.

Here is 4 part webcast to prove how Crytpic really knows how to fool their player base.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=netVYbeaiDo

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

It makes no difference, the proof is in the progrress. People just wanted a full game at release and not have to pay for it while they make it more of a complete game, that is why it got the lynching.

It is why SWTOR failed too, but as it is more of a complete game at launch, and the subs plumetted from 2 mill to 500K and went F2P faster than STO did, and was a MMO intended to be P2P for a very long long time, like WOW, then they are mot willing to put more money into it, advancing it along as intended.  If people never quit SWTOR and trusted EA/BW for at least a year, they may have had enough money to move it along quite nicely.

No it makes all the differennce because i hate it when people sping things by making up their own stuff. I like to deal in relevant and factual information and since you cant come up with any relevant source of info to share with us  other than 'your' magazine, you just made it very easy for me to  shrug aside anything you say regarding STO's past as well as present.

Also i find it ironic that you are ok with Cryptic releasing bare bone MMO and yet you bash on SWTOR every single day. And sorry but no other MMO crashed and burned as fast as STO on release..well maybe Warhammer and AOC.

Whatever, I do not care if you believe me or not, prety much expected if there is no link. If you are not going to like what I say then you are going to try and discredit itmbut you seem to be making a mole hill out of a mountain with it. At the end of the day I do not post stuff that is made up as it just a waste of time. I could dig it out and scan take a photo but it is not worth it. If I do end up going to the trouble and you see it, no doubt you will try and spin it to your favour again.

You are right i don't. Asking people to back up their info about what an 'x' company stated in official capacity is not making mountain out of the mole but is a way to give more credibility to the point you are trying to make. Ofcourse, if you want others to take what you say more seriously in future.

I do not have an issue with a bare bone MMO, as the devs can create the game for the fans and desires, SWTOR is created by what EA/BW think the fans want. SWTOR just took off and went high and then crash landed, and is going no where.  STO took off low, and slowly moving along but onwards and upwards. Either the engine for SWTOR can not add many varied features or they are not willing to improve the game any more, as needs millions of dollars they are not willing to spend any more on the game. STO has a future, but SWTOR does not.

I am neither a STO fan or SWTOR fan but from where i stand botth are on the same path for me..moving forward. As far as what fans want, Cryptic's sales pitch at one of the press releases is still very famous on you tube by the way where they served a lot of BS to fans where as the actual release ended up nothing like what head honchos of Crytpic said iot would be. Instead it was heavily instanced game with no content for Klingon side.

It is hard to just go back to beginning after hearing so many lies.

Atleast Bioware have been very honest from day one and mentioned many times SWTOR is not SWG and never will be.

I am not biased or have any agenda against any MMOS. But it doesn't take a genius to see that you are using Crytpic's shoulder to fire your gun at Bioware.For me Cryptic is worse than Bioware ever will be.

Bioware have said it would not be another SWG, but they did say they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which all seems to have been scrapped now, and not coming in.

SWTORs failure is the huge sub loss, and not getting the 10 millions of subs they were aiming for. They just do not have the money to make SWTOR into the MMO they visioned. They saw the success of F2P as well in other companies, and decide to make it F2P, but it is so convoluted it does not attract people to play the game as F2P. They seem to just copy what other companies do, and it all fails as they do not understand the way other companies do it.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

It makes no difference, the proof is in the progrress. People just wanted a full game at release and not have to pay for it while they make it more of a complete game, that is why it got the lynching.

It is why SWTOR failed too, but as it is more of a complete game at launch, and the subs plumetted from 2 mill to 500K and went F2P faster than STO did, and was a MMO intended to be P2P for a very long long time, like WOW, then they are mot willing to put more money into it, advancing it along as intended.  If people never quit SWTOR and trusted EA/BW for at least a year, they may have had enough money to move it along quite nicely.

No it makes all the differennce because i hate it when people sping things by making up their own stuff. I like to deal in relevant and factual information and since you cant come up with any relevant source of info to share with us  other than 'your' magazine, you just made it very easy for me to  shrug aside anything you say regarding STO's past as well as present.

Also i find it ironic that you are ok with Cryptic releasing bare bone MMO and yet you bash on SWTOR every single day. And sorry but no other MMO crashed and burned as fast as STO on release..well maybe Warhammer and AOC.

Whatever, I do not care if you believe me or not, prety much expected if there is no link. If you are not going to like what I say then you are going to try and discredit itmbut you seem to be making a mole hill out of a mountain with it. At the end of the day I do not post stuff that is made up as it just a waste of time. I could dig it out and scan take a photo but it is not worth it. If I do end up going to the trouble and you see it, no doubt you will try and spin it to your favour again.

You are right i don't. Asking people to back up their info about what an 'x' company stated in official capacity is not making mountain out of the mole but is a way to give more credibility to the point you are trying to make. Ofcourse, if you want others to take what you say more seriously in future.

I do not have an issue with a bare bone MMO, as the devs can create the game for the fans and desires, SWTOR is created by what EA/BW think the fans want. SWTOR just took off and went high and then crash landed, and is going no where.  STO took off low, and slowly moving along but onwards and upwards. Either the engine for SWTOR can not add many varied features or they are not willing to improve the game any more, as needs millions of dollars they are not willing to spend any more on the game. STO has a future, but SWTOR does not.

I am neither a STO fan or SWTOR fan but from where i stand botth are on the same path for me..moving forward. As far as what fans want, Cryptic's sales pitch at one of the press releases is still very famous on you tube by the way where they served a lot of BS to fans where as the actual release ended up nothing like what head honchos of Crytpic said iot would be. Instead it was heavily instanced game with no content for Klingon side.

It is hard to just go back to beginning after hearing so many lies.

Atleast Bioware have been very honest from day one and mentioned many times SWTOR is not SWG and never will be.

I am not biased or have any agenda against any MMOS. But it doesn't take a genius to see that you are using Crytpic's shoulder to fire your gun at Bioware.For me Cryptic is worse than Bioware ever will be.

Bioware have said it would not be another SWG, but they did say they had enough content to make KOTOR 3-9 and beyond, which all seems to have been scrapped now, and not coming in.

SWTORs failure is the huge sub loss, and not getting the 10 millions of subs they were aiming for. They just do not have the money to make SWTOR into the MMO they visioned. They saw the success of F2P as well in other companies, and decide to make it F2P, but it is so convoluted it does not attract people to play the game as F2P. They seem to just copy what other companies do, and it all fails as they do not understand the way other companies do it.

I am pretty sure Bioware will keep releasing content. it is hard to believe that SWTOR will be similar in say next 2 years with no content updates. Unless it is dead in waters like Vangaurd i really doubt that  no new content will release in future.

And since we are talking about failures here what was STO?  that is why like i said earlier that your whole 'Crytpic released bare bone MMO but it is all right but SWTOR is a failure' reeks of irony.

Cryptic are the biggest spin masters in MMO world only second to Funcom and Mythic (RIP). And if you watched those webcasts i posted in last reply you would know that by now.

It is like arguing who is worse director Uwe Boll or Michael Bay.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

 

I am pretty sure Bioware will keep releasing content. it is hard to believe that SWTOR will be similar in say next 2 years with no content updates. Unless it is dead in waters like Vangaurd i really doubt that  no new content will release in future.

And since we are talking about failures here what was STO?  that is why like i said earlier that your whole 'Crytpic released bare bone MMO but it is all right but SWTOR is a failure' reeks of irony.

Cryptic are the biggest spin masters in MMO world only second to Funcom and Mythic (RIP). And if you watched those webcasts i posted in last reply you would know that by now.

It is like arguing who is worse director Uwe Boll or Michael Bay.

His comment of TOR lacking content is also ironic when you consider that the game has 8 unique class stories, each world has a story quest line along with many side quests, flashpoints,operations and even different warzones for PVP. That is a LOT of content that covers both factions in the game.I've been playing it a lot since release and still have five classes to go that will take me a long time to complete. 

STO on the other hand has only ONE faction quest line and that is it unless you want to go scan anomaly or do repeatable zones. Oh and of course the Foundry, which is a bunch of horribly done fan content. And the quest line for the Federation is SO dull.That is all you get no matter what ship type or class you play you'll be playing the same thing over and over again.  Even the added cinematics(which are horribly done) can't help it.  This is all on top of the fact that the game  runs like crap.There's a reason why very few people play it anymore. It just isn't that good.  

At some point soon the servers will reach their stabilization point. The Co-RPG folks will have consolidated with the transitory MMOers who have taken a vacation from large populations, to form the tiny core of this game.

Makeb will come out, which will provide a small spike. If there is no other SW game out when the new movies hit they will get some fleeting pop from that too.

The problem is that the game is fundamentally flawed. No one who is looking for an actual guild/MMO/world experience could be happy with tis game.

The IP and the niche casual/soloer pop are the only thing keeping SWTOR going. Good thing for them, this population strata seems to be growing. The experiment is a success! You can make a shit game with ego stroking for soloers (8 SToRiEs WOW!) and a recognizable IP and stay in business.