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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » 1.7 and the forced PVP debate

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79 posts found
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

2/05/13 2:28:32 AM#21
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Vunak23

Self Entitled PVE players thinking they run the world of MMO's...Nothing new here. But this is why us PVP players can't have nice things. PVE people bitch and whine when we actually get something worth while. If Illum had been half as good as I was hopeing I might have stuck around and played for awhile longer than I did. 

 

Its funny because PVE players do their raiding thing and PVE events and such, you won't see a PVP player come trampling in on their parade...But as soon as something comes up thats the opposite, all hell breaks lose. This is one reason I in general don't like PVE only players. 

I understand where your coming from . When you mention to them that they are getting an entire planet with the next expansion they just shrug it off. They want every item and title in the game regardless and they will kick up a mighty stink if you force them to do PVP. It's funny, because they can wipe a hundred times to a stupid NPc  with no problem yet go nuts if it happens against a player. 

lol true!

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

2/05/13 3:15:14 AM#22

they allocate resources based on player numbers,,about 85% PVE and the rest for PVP

a good example is EVE,,despite it being one of the best mmos on the market, its still

chugging along with the same numbers as any mediocre mmo

as for PVPers not bothering PVErs  does Hk51! ring a bell?

i didnt try it myself, but i saw the rants from a lot of angry players

PVPers knew , that those players didnt have any chance to defend themselves,,they also knew

that they were only there to gather parts for the mission

and instead of rolling on a PVP server, or joining a ranked PVP map,,they just opened a gankfest

most devs have learned to seperate them as much as possible,,they just dont mix

theres a server if you like to PVE, and another if you like PVP

im a smoker, so by following the PVP argument,,EVERYBODY is a smoker,,there are no smoke free zones

anymore,,,does that sound reasonable to you?

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

2/05/13 3:28:07 AM#23

Maybe it's a bit oversimplistic, but to expect a Star Wars MMO without spcae combat (Star) or any PVP (Wars) seems odd to me.

But that is just one opinion in a sea of many.

  Ahnog

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 230

2/05/13 7:37:41 AM#24
Originally posted by cronius77
while a little forced pvp to get a reward isnt that bad and has been done in other games as well without that many complaints, this just also goes to show you how much this horrible dev team refuses to listen to the majority of its playerbase and continues to add stuff that the community doesnt want. The HK parts in the exiles den created a huge disdain in the community with the 1.5 patch . Now they do it all over again forcing things down the players throats that majority just do not want. This is just another example of why EA and Bioware are utter morons and do not care about their game , just to milk the remaining playerbase.

I disagree. Certainly the pvp players are part of the base and deserve content as well.

Ahnog

Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

http://www.ahnog.us

  BadOrb

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 739

2/05/13 2:48:39 PM#25

You never know the rewards in the ilum part of the rep system might only be PVP items. you never know , anyways i think it would be all well and good to give PVP players an event  , why not ? I'm a PVE player but do I care that this zone might auto flag me ( if I go there ) ? nope.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/05/13 3:00:19 PM#26
Originally posted by simplius

they allocate resources based on player numbers,,about 85% PVE and the rest for PVP

Mostly because PVP has been neglected.Before the server merges, the most consistently busy server was The Fatman, a PVP server.  From my experience in gaming, most players like a little bit of both. The "strict" PVE or PVPers are the minority. 

a good example is EVE,,despite it being one of the best mmos on the market, its still

chugging along with the same numbers as any mediocre mmo

A lot of MMOs would  love to have the "mediocrity" that is EVE numbers. That game has been one of the few MMOs to grow and hold a steady sub base.

as for PVPers not bothering PVErs  does Hk51! ring a bell?

i didnt try it myself, but i saw the rants from a lot of angry players

PVPers knew , that those players didnt have any chance to defend themselves,,they also knew

that they were only there to gather parts for the mission

and instead of rolling on a PVP server, or joining a ranked PVP map,,they just opened a gankfest

Of course PVPers are going to gank you.  That's why you should never enter a PVP zone without backup.If losing to another player is too traumatic for you, then don't do the quest. Simple. 

most devs have learned to seperate them as much as possible,,they just dont mix

theres a server if you like to PVE, and another if you like PVP

And usually those games fail because at the end of the day there is simply no way to produce enough content to satisfy people who only like to PVE. Even they get bored of going against the same dumb AI on a daily basis. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

2/05/13 5:55:46 PM#27

This is why in a game that includes both PVP and PVE content, the two parts should be 50/50.

Any amount of stuff you get via PVE, you should get the same amount of comparable versions in PVP.

You get a purely PVE zone? You should get a PVP zone to balance it out.

You have PVE titles, you should have the same amount of PVP titles; and you PVE buffs, you should get the same amount of similar-strength PVP buffs...  and so on...

I guess the developers just see PVP as "gameplay that produces its own content" (i.e. player conflict), but I'm afraid that's not nearly good enough. It can work in sandboxy games like EVE - and that's because EVE has well-implemented systems tailored for it - but in a directed-content MMO such as SWTOR, the developers just has to keep putting in new PVP content and not make do with "oh, another Warzone".

I've played with a lot of PVP players and never saw one satisfied with just "another warzone".

 

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/06/13 1:35:22 PM#28
Originally posted by tiefighter25

Maybe it's a bit oversimplistic, but to expect a Star Wars MMO without spcae combat (Star) or any PVP (Wars) seems odd to me.

But that is just one opinion in a sea of many.

I don't see how an MMO can have interesting end game without PVP. You can only do the same flashpoints and quests so many times before it goes stale. So what is a company supposed to do? Keep spending time on content that will be burned thru in two weeks(Makeb) or create content that like 1.7 will have a longer shelf life?

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

2/06/13 2:02:28 PM#29
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by tiefighter25

Maybe it's a bit oversimplistic, but to expect a Star Wars MMO without spcae combat (Star) or any PVP (Wars) seems odd to me.

But that is just one opinion in a sea of many.

I don't see how an MMO can have interesting end game without PVP. You can only do the same flashpoints and quests so many times before it goes stale. So what is a company supposed to do? Keep spending time on content that will be burned thru in two weeks(Makeb) or create content that like 1.7 will have a longer shelf life?

Personally I do not give a stuff about PvP. Besting other people in a combat system does not excite me. In SWG if I am overt for whatever reason like getting triple points for decorating a tree in the christmas event, and someone finds me I just let them kill me and not fight back, and then just carry on.

How about a story (Flashpoint/Operations/Warzone) creator? Like CoH Architect system,  EQ2 Dungeon Maker, STOs Foundry, SWGs Chronicle system. This would add endless fun for everyone

or how about city invasions? Various NPCs /creatures spawn around the place and have to join in and get rid of them, like what SWG had in its final days or the Bestine / Keren / Dearic invasions

or make the crafting more deep. When you find a resources node, it has various levels of quality. One node might give 66% quality and then when it respawns in the same spot it might give 89%  quality

or make the ability to explore the worlds and clone companions - sneak up behind a NPC and get its DNA, then go to your ship where you have the facilities and clone that NPC and make him a companion.

or instanced housing, where players can decorate their place, with looted items / trophies, even STO has this on the the ship

or being able to set up a shop somewhere, and sell your crafted gear, even Phantasy Star Universe had this

or fishing - a nice calm relaxing way to spend your time, in LOTRO or SWG, and collect various fish, with some super rare ones. In SWTOR you could try and catch super rare fish that you can trade in and earn Cartel Coins, the more rare they are the more CC you get.

but then SWTORs problem is its engine does not seem to be able to add the fun stuff of other MMOs

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/06/13 10:07:59 PM#30
Originally posted by BadOrb

You never know the rewards in the ilum part of the rep system might only be PVP items. you never know , anyways i think it would be all well and good to give PVP players an event  , why not ? I'm a PVE player but do I care that this zone might auto flag me ( if I go there ) ? nope.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

Wish more PVE players had your viewpoint.  Cheers.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2639

110100100

2/08/13 12:06:37 AM#31

i am sure this has been said but why should i be forced to raid to get that gear?

pve'ers have their raid gear and raid content, those whining about this can go pound sand lol

that goes for any game too.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2639

110100100

2/08/13 12:11:45 AM#32


Originally posted by tiefighter25
Maybe it's a bit oversimplistic, but to expect a Star Wars MMO without spcae combat (Star) or any PVP (Wars) seems odd to me.

But that is just one opinion in a sea of many.


KOTOR while not an MMO had neither as well and people seemed to love that game.

that said, i play online games to compete against other players (and compete with them too)

if this game didn't have pvp i wouldn't be playing it right now probably.

  Davynelord

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 121

2/08/13 2:35:31 AM#33
[mod edit]

 

 

Because MMO's are made for everyone...the more things you can choose to do and enjoy, the better success the game will have...you want to appeal to every type of person because that means more revenue for the game company.....believe it or not there are far more casual players who play MMO's for PVE, Roleplay, Novelty etc... than there are PVPers....PVPers are usually the most hardcore gamers because PVP isn't rewarding or satisfying most of the time until you get ot max level.   Therefore, unless a game is 100% based around Open PVP, no one should be complaining about full time or part time PVE players or vice versa.

 

 

Anyway, this game shouldn't have anyone complaining about PVE or PVP....it's one of the easiest games to level up in and get PVP worthy gear too.   Not only that, but PVP in this game is one of the most balanced and fair of any MMO I've ever played in that last 15 years....

 

SWTOR is childsplay compared to other MMO's...Pvp in this game is nothing to cry and whine about....I mean your practically handed everything to you through warzones....what game can you play and have a full PVP set before you even get max level?   

 

And no I am not a huge PVPer in any MMO....I'd say I'm normally 80% PVE, 5% goofing around, 5% digging into game mechanics and 10% PVP......but this game has got me doing about 45% PVP LOL....I even leveled my last 30 levels doing nothing but warzones.....I just hate huttball though :P

 

 

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/09/13 3:01:29 PM#34
1.7 goes live this coming Tuesday, so we'll see how it all shakes out soon enough.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  crack_fox

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 398

2/09/13 6:45:23 PM#35
Originally posted by superniceguy

Personally I do not give a stuff about PvP. Besting other people in a combat system does not excite me. In SWG if I am overt for whatever reason like getting triple points for decorating a tree in the christmas event, and someone finds me I just let them kill me and not fight back, and then just carry on.

How about a story (Flashpoint/Operations/Warzone) creator? Like CoH Architect system,  EQ2 Dungeon Maker, STOs Foundry, SWGs Chronicle system. This would add endless fun for everyone

or how about city invasions? Various NPCs /creatures spawn around the place and have to join in and get rid of them, like what SWG had in its final days or the Bestine / Keren / Dearic invasions

or make the crafting more deep. When you find a resources node, it has various levels of quality. One node might give 66% quality and then when it respawns in the same spot it might give 89%  quality

or make the ability to explore the worlds and clone companions - sneak up behind a NPC and get its DNA, then go to your ship where you have the facilities and clone that NPC and make him a companion.

or instanced housing, where players can decorate their place, with looted items / trophies, even STO has this on the the ship

or being able to set up a shop somewhere, and sell your crafted gear, even Phantasy Star Universe had this

or fishing - a nice calm relaxing way to spend your time, in LOTRO or SWG, and collect various fish, with some super rare ones. In SWTOR you could try and catch super rare fish that you can trade in and earn Cartel Coins, the more rare they are the more CC you get.

but then SWTORs problem is its engine does not seem to be able to add the fun stuff of other MMOs

 Agreed. These are the sorts of things the game really needs, and more. MMO players are more diverse in their interests and developers need to capitalise on this by offering more varied and complex systems to keep them engaged. I don't much care for PVP and I care even less for end-game PVE as it currently exists.  As things are, I'm going to hit 50 and quit. It's been a blast, really, but end-game has nothing to hold my interest.

  User Deleted
2/09/13 6:50:00 PM#36

Forced pvp to get rewards is terrible design structure, sooooooo many games scared their playerbase away with this very easily Aion comes to mind instantly and then it was left in the dust of mmo history because of this very problem.

 

That being said, if they already have equivalent pve gear out and content out, then I don't get what people are arguing over. I'd be happy with the pve content if there was plenty to do outside of dungeons and the game has some system of gathering currency/improvements in pve without grouping. That's always a really great balance when they do that. If this is indeed the case then they really have nothing to argue about.

  taloshz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/06
Posts: 16

2/09/13 7:16:45 PM#37

The reality is that pvp is a niche enviroment in the MMO world that is a fact. Take a look at any full on pvp game and it usually never succeeds. People quote EVE as a success welp eve really is  NOT a mmorpg. its more a multiplayer space sim game which is an  enitrely diffrent situation. People are more likely to accept being blown out the sky in a ship then they are  on a character. Do not ask m why but that is how it is. PVE  MMO will always be the ones which will outlast and create revenue even if its minimal. There is a far bigger player base. I think the problem with it is the fact that a very small percentage of pvp players  are causing the whole  group to be classified as gankers. I have seen comments that PVE will die to a mob 100 times and dont get upset but will to a player there is a reason for that. You do not have the mob acting like a 2 yr old child hopped up on suguar insulting you every second because they beat you.  You can find that mentality in any game that allowes pvp. Hell even when they make it where  you cannot understand the otherside you till see jibberish flashing across the  screen,

PVP is nowhere near how it was in the past. The older  MMO generation at least showed alittle respect during pvp matches something that is completely lost now. I used to enjoy pvp but now I will not touch it because the maturity level has dropped so far below intelligent level its just not worth the insults. But thats  just a mute point here with this subject.

I think the biggest issue with games these days is that devs try to force crossing over of the 2 branches to fit there needs. They realize that pvp is never going to be the big thing that there PVP customers want os they try to make it better by forcing more people into pvp by placing gear that is better  used in the high end of pve then the items the pve players have already. They know that serious hardcore raiding guilds will force there people to play in pvp to get those items even if the player doesn want to ever pvp. This in turn is what causes major problems in games. They need to just seperate the 2 completey. There is no need for pvp armor to be on par with pve gear or pve gear to be oin par with pvp gear. If you want to do both then you should have to work at both. They should make pvp armor useless in pve that you cannot even equip it in non pvp zones and  do the same for pve gear. This would completely solve the problem of crossover armorr. But they will never do that because like some have stated. The small niche pvp clan in a ftp game do provide the most revenue and how do you increase that revenue by forcing pve players into pvp. Got to love it dont you.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/10/13 12:59:29 PM#38
Originally posted by itgrowls

Forced pvp to get rewards is terrible design structure, sooooooo many games scared their playerbase away with this very easily Aion comes to mind instantly and then it was left in the dust of mmo history because of this very problem.

 In my view catering to the carebear crowd is what destroys games. SWG is the best example of this. That game went through constant changes the first couple years because SOE wanted to make getting jedi easier and easier and this was done at the expense of the game. 

That being said, if they already have equivalent pve gear out and content out, then I don't get what people are arguing over. I'd be happy with the pve content if there was plenty to do outside of dungeons and the game has some system of gathering currency/improvements in pve without grouping. That's always a really great balance when they do that. If this is indeed the case then they really have nothing to argue about.

They  don't have anything to argue about. There is already multiple levels of PVE gear available eg: Ty,Colum,Rakata and Black Hole. In order to get most of it you have to do flashpoints and operations. If you don't like doing either? You can do the Section X and Black Hole quests for the Black Hole gear but it will take longer. PVE only players have plenty of content to do in this game and they have an entire planet coming out with the next expansion. This is just a case of some selfish players getting pissy because the next update isn't geared towards them. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  jmr03103

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/09
Posts: 3

2/10/13 1:15:00 PM#39
PvP was really never my thing, since i tried it in a few games over the years. As Pve is more to my style, i say let the pvpers have something that they can get rewarded for THEIR playstyle. I do not need pvp gear. Anything that keeps the player base happy and playing, is fine with me.
  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/10/13 1:17:27 PM#40
Originally posted by taloshz

The reality is that pvp is a niche enviroment in the MMO world that is a fact. Take a look at any full on pvp game and it usually never succeeds. People quote EVE as a success welp eve really is  NOT a mmorpg. its more a multiplayer space sim game which is an  enitrely diffrent situation. People are more likely to accept being blown out the sky in a ship then they are  on a character. Do not ask m why but that is how it is. PVE  MMO will always be the ones which will outlast and create revenue even if its minimal. There is a far bigger player base. I think the problem with it is the fact that a very small percentage of pvp players  are causing the whole  group to be classified as gankers. I have seen comments that PVE will die to a mob 100 times and dont get upset but will to a player there is a reason for that. You do not have the mob acting like a 2 yr old child hopped up on suguar insulting you every second because they beat you.  You can find that mentality in any game that allowes pvp. Hell even when they make it where  you cannot understand the otherside you till see jibberish flashing across the  screen,

PVP is nowhere near how it was in the past. The older  MMO generation at least showed alittle respect during pvp matches something that is completely lost now. I used to enjoy pvp but now I will not touch it because the maturity level has dropped so far below intelligent level its just not worth the insults. But thats  just a mute point here with this subject.

I think the biggest issue with games these days is that devs try to force crossing over of the 2 branches to fit there needs. They realize that pvp is never going to be the big thing that there PVP customers want os they try to make it better by forcing more people into pvp by placing gear that is better  used in the high end of pve then the items the pve players have already. They know that serious hardcore raiding guilds will force there people to play in pvp to get those items even if the player doesn want to ever pvp. This in turn is what causes major problems in games. They need to just seperate the 2 completey. There is no need for pvp armor to be on par with pve gear or pve gear to be oin par with pvp gear. If you want to do both then you should have to work at both. They should make pvp armor useless in pve that you cannot even equip it in non pvp zones and  do the same for pve gear. This would completely solve the problem of crossover armorr. But they will never do that because like some have stated. The small niche pvp clan in a ftp game do provide the most revenue and how do you increase that revenue by forcing pve players into pvp. Got to love it dont you.

IMO I think the seperation of people based on playstyle is the worse thing to happen to MMOs. Players have now been conditioned to think that the opposite playstyle shouldn't be seen or heard on their servers. The reality is that most people like a little of both. Some days I'm in the mood to just do some quests and other days I'm in the mood to throw down and test my skills against another player. Far as PVP being a niche, if you mean the PVP only crowd then yes. But the same could be said for the PVE only crowd. Both of those sides are the extreme minority that loves to make like they are the majoirty. I play on a PVE-RP server and I rarely run into players that don't have valor points. After this coming Tuesday I would suspect their valor points to go up even more because now PVP won't be restricted to the same tired warzones. Servers should not be seperated by playstyles. Make them all the same. If PVEers don't want to PVP they can not go overt and avoid the PVP areas. Simple.  

Seperating gear by playstyles was also a bad move because now you've added one more thing for both sides to fight over. There should be no expertise or anything else that consitutes "I Win" for a player.Gear should not be the deciding factor in any PVP match. The seperation is ecouraged because the PVE only crowd thinks that all of the best gear should be done by raiding. Screw crafters , screw PVPers and screw anyone that doesn't like raiding. Got to love it don't you.

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

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