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121 posts found
  Tigasnake

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 33

 
OP  1/31/13 9:02:58 AM#1

Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

  Freezzo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 234

1/31/13 9:07:29 AM#2
Bioware used a pre-release version of the Hero Engine, modified it and it gives piss-poor performance and doesn't render well. As it is [u]some[/u] version of the Hero Engine, the engine itself got a bad name...

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

1/31/13 10:01:38 AM#3

Hero posted the story about how EA purchased the alpha version of Hero and wanted to "fill in the rest" later.  As a result, Hero would not support it for them, or provide them updates.  Perhaps EA realizes now the importance of companies dedicating their lives just to game engines.  It's not something that just gets filled in.

 

The story of the Hero Engine was published as a rebuttal to EA saying they couldn't do much to improve gameplay because of the limitations of the engine.  Hero wasn't going to let that stand.

 

http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/heroengine-meets-starwars/

 

Otherwise, todays Hero Engine is pretty good.  As said earlier though, SWTOR gave them a black eye.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

1/31/13 12:26:22 PM#4

To be fair, the Hero Engine is marketed at indie developers such as the developer behind the Repopulation. Hero's strength is two-fold, ease of use, especially for collabarative game design (as opposed to performance) and the pricing structure of the engine's licensing agreement. (The engine is cheap to license on the front end, simutronics gets a cut of the game's overall revenue on the back end.)

Simutronics didn't refuse to suppoort SWTOR's modified Hero Engine, they simply stated before purchase that they wouldn't be able to. (They wanted Bioware to go into the deal with eyes wide open.)

Simutronics decided to take a truckload of money from Bioware to license the Aplpha Hero Engine, with the risj that the Alpha engine may create bad press, which it did.

Fair or unfair, the Hero Engine is a bit of a negative buzz word. As a example, Zenimax has done its best to reassure people that the game is built on an in-house engine, not on the Hero Engine. (Which Zenimax used to sketch out it's game enviornment.)

*edited some of the many typos.

  Muerte_X

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/11
Posts: 104

1/31/13 12:35:57 PM#5
Yea, it has a bad name ATM. But at this point, with the exception of the Alpha engine used by SWTOR, we have not seen it in action in a finished game. I for one reserve judgement of the engine and will wait until I see another project finish a game with it.

Often lurking, rarely posting

  Vrika

Elite Member

Joined: 10/03/05
Posts: 2044

1/31/13 1:58:30 PM#6

SWTOR's graphics are only slightly better than WoW, the engine can display only enough action on-screen for small-scale battles but can't handle larger crowds, and there's nothing technically impressive about it. It feels like SWTOR's engine can do just the bare minimum required for normal gameplay as long as the game's designed around the engine's limitations, but nothing extra.

Considering that SWTOR's launch budged was likely the largest for any MMO ever made, people expected better. The engine is below medicore.

This is not an insult to the Hero Engine in general, but the version of Hero Engine used in SWTOR isn't as good as it should be.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/31/13 2:03:55 PM#7
Originally posted by Tigasnake

Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

Ok I'll give you 5 reasons:

1. Piss poor rendering performance. Like literally, it hitches anytime you hit more than 5 models at a time, even on high end systems.

2. Dated altogether. Looks like something from 2007, not 2013.

3. Heavily instanced based engine. This cripples having anything remotely massively multiplayer.

4. They used an older Hero Engine, and while the new versions are slightly better, it was really bad before.

5. Bioware KNEW not use Hero Engine, but they did it anyway, despite public outcry. This is probably the biggest mistake of all. They were told not to, and did anyway. Surprise! It didn't work!

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

1/31/13 2:07:22 PM#8


Originally posted by Tigasnake
Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"


Because people are mostly ignorant when it comes to software development, business and other "technicalities"...most do not get past "gamer" proficiency.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

1/31/13 2:35:55 PM#9
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tigasnake
Hey all,

 

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"


 

Because people are mostly ignorant when it comes to software development, business and other "technicalities"...most do not get past "gamer" proficiency.

I'm having a hard time gleaning what you mean by this statement.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/31/13 2:38:14 PM#10
Originally posted by Tigasnake

Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.

SWTOR used an (early and proprietarily modified) version. The rage is associative.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/31/13 2:41:14 PM#11
Originally posted by tiefighter25
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tigasnake
Hey all,

 

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"


 

Because people are mostly ignorant when it comes to software development, business and other "technicalities"...most do not get past "gamer" proficiency.

I'm having a hard time gleaning what you mean by this statement.

I'm not sure either, trying his best to save a sinking Tortanic by saying we don't understand why they made bad decisions. I'm not exactly sure.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Sephiroso

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/01/05
Posts: 1056

1/31/13 2:46:55 PM#12
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Tigasnake

Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

Ok I'll give you 5 reasons:

1. Piss poor rendering performance. Like literally, it hitches anytime you hit more than 5 models at a time, even on high end systems.

2. Dated altogether. Looks like something from 2007, not 2013.

3. Heavily instanced based engine. This cripples having anything remotely massively multiplayer.

4. They used an older Hero Engine, and while the new versions are slightly better, it was really bad before.

5. Bioware KNEW not use Hero Engine, but they did it anyway, despite public outcry. This is probably the biggest mistake of all. They were told not to, and did anyway. Surprise! It didn't work!

pretty sure swtor came out 2011...but that could just be me


Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

2/01/13 2:38:06 AM#13
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tigasnake
Hey all,

 

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

 


 

Because people are mostly ignorant when it comes to software development, business and other "technicalities"...most do not get past "gamer" proficiency.

and how much more do i need?

is it only chefs, who can eat at restaurants?

is it only musicians, who can visit a concert?

go ahead,,make a mmo , just for professionals,,,lets see how big a sub base you will have

yes mmo players let off lots of steam an BS on game forums,,but since theyre the paying customers, it would be wise not to

antagonize them

 

 

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

2/01/13 2:59:52 AM#14
Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Tigasnake
Hey all,

 

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

 


 

Because people are mostly ignorant when it comes to software development, business and other "technicalities"...most do not get past "gamer" proficiency.

and how much more do i need?

is it only chefs, who can eat at restaurants?

is it only musicians, who can visit a concert?

go ahead,,make a mmo , just for professionals,,,lets see how big a sub base you will have

yes mmo players let off lots of steam an BS on game forums,,but since theyre the paying customers, it would be wise not to

antagonize them

 

 

I really enjoy the subject matter expert approach. It's fun to watch people try to justify shit by pointing out the chemical process by which it happens.

A whole lot of work can go into something and it still sucks. You don't get a medal or a cookie, you get branded as the maker of a crap game. I would suggest that you game makers/programmers concentrate on making better stuff rather than trying to justify the work of your peers out of some sense of solidarity.

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

2/01/13 4:06:34 AM#15

As others have stated the version that they used was unfinished.. it was biowares fault for wanting to go with an engine that was in an alpha state.

 

Hero engine of today is totally different, its a very good engine for an awesome price.. The new version just released allows people to create their own shaders as well so we should be seeing even better graphics from it soon enough..

 

As you said the repopulation is looknig very good and i cant wait for it to come out :) one of the only MMOs im looknig forward to this year.

 

My 3D models
http://dragon3d.webs.com/

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6971

2/01/13 12:26:46 PM#16


Originally posted by simplius

and how much more do i need?

is it only chefs, who can eat at restaurants?

is it only musicians, who can visit a concert?

go ahead,,make a mmo , just for professionals,,,lets see how big a sub base you will have

yes mmo players let off lots of steam an BS on game forums,,but since theyre the paying customers, it would be wise not to

antagonize them

 

 


Wrong.

Because you enjoy listening a music, does it mean you can play it as well or cook a meal you get served in restaurant by professional?


Same goes for forums posters. They are gamers but that does not qualify them as developers so when they start talking about MMO development or business, they simply have no clue what they talk about...

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

2/01/13 12:37:29 PM#17
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Tigasnake

Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

Ok I'll give you 5 reasons:

1. Piss poor rendering performance. Like literally, it hitches anytime you hit more than 5 models at a time, even on high end systems.

2. Dated altogether. Looks like something from 2007, not 2013.

3. Heavily instanced based engine. This cripples having anything remotely massively multiplayer.

4. They used an older Hero Engine, and while the new versions are slightly better, it was really bad before.

5. Bioware KNEW not use Hero Engine, but they did it anyway, despite public outcry. This is probably the biggest mistake of all. They were told not to, and did anyway. Surprise! It didn't work!

pretty sure swtor came out 2011...but that could just be me

Thanks for nitpicking. So the graphics are only 4 years outdated not 6.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

2/01/13 12:45:38 PM#18

Even though ea is using the modified hero engine from alpha, they told hero they knew what to do.  What happened was they got a pos engine and nobody at EA or bioware could really code with it due to the limititions of the chopped up version.  When we see the words hero engine we tend to point at what ea/bioware failed to do with it. 

 

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

2/01/13 12:54:42 PM#19
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by simplius

and how much more do i need?

 

is it only chefs, who can eat at restaurants?

is it only musicians, who can visit a concert?

go ahead,,make a mmo , just for professionals,,,lets see how big a sub base you will have

yes mmo players let off lots of steam an BS on game forums,,but since theyre the paying customers, it would be wise not to

antagonize them

 

 


 

Wrong.

Because you enjoy listening a music, does it mean you can play it as well or cook a meal you get served in restaurant by professional?


Same goes for forums posters. They are gamers but that does not qualify them as developers so when they start talking about MMO development or business, they simply have no clue what they talk about...

Exactly. Though I must admit to getting a good laugh out of posters whose biggest investment was a video game making the claim that the investors of this game are clue less and don't know what's going on. . I mean really guys? Do you think that the investors in games, movies or any form of business became who they were by just throwing money at something and hoping for the best? 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  GwapoJosh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/12
Posts: 1009

2/01/13 12:55:52 PM#20
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Tigasnake

Hey all,

Every time I see the word "Hero Engine", it's always negative.  Why?  Why is the Hero Engine looked down on?  I'm curious, because The Repopulation (which seems to be building anticipation) also uses that same engine.  However, whenever it's discussed in SWTOR.com forums or here, the Hero Engine is like a cuss word to express rage or justify bad early development decisions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive answers and not just "Because it sucks!"

Ok I'll give you 5 reasons:

1. Piss poor rendering performance. Like literally, it hitches anytime you hit more than 5 models at a time, even on high end systems.

2. Dated altogether. Looks like something from 2007, not 2013.

3. Heavily instanced based engine. This cripples having anything remotely massively multiplayer.

4. They used an older Hero Engine, and while the new versions are slightly better, it was really bad before.

5. Bioware KNEW not use Hero Engine, but they did it anyway, despite public outcry. This is probably the biggest mistake of all. They were told not to, and did anyway. Surprise! It didn't work!

pretty sure swtor came out 2011...but that could just be me

Thanks for nitpicking. So the graphics are only 4 years outdated not 6.

The Repopulation is mostly open seamless, so you are wrong about number 3..

 

Edit:  And EA chose to go that rout with the graphics.. They wanted it to compete directly with WoW.  A "Stylized" cartoon..

"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy

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