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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » Was the delusion strong with this one...?

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40 posts found
  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2637

12/06/12 8:43:53 AM#21
Originally posted by botrytis
The same type of user hype is going on with Archage, Wildstar, etc. It will be interesting to see if the fans hyping these games will turn around and get nasty and mean like they did with SWTOR and what is going on with GW2.

Most likely.

I think we, as a community here at MMORPG need to stop getting swept up by all this hype.  Here we are..the dedicated hardcore fans of the genre...and we are getting swept up over and over like a bunch of six year old children.

If we can really put an end to it, it would stop 90% of all the pointless bickering that happens here....and lead to more fulfilled discussion.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2242

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/06/12 8:47:55 AM#22
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by grimal

Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

 

This is exactly right, and exactly why I won't be buying another themepark game unless I see something truly mind-blowing. Also, the game company behind it doesn't matter that much.  Blizzard's Titan, for example, is more likely to suck than not, if we are using the past eight years as a guide.

I appreciate your point, but I'm not sure it leads to a 'never' for me. 

For two reasons:

1. All advertisers until the end of time will exagerate/hype. I believe it is the duty of consumers to see through this. Therefore, the above statements, I took them all with a grain of salt, and thus enjoyed many of the above titles.

2. Just because all the parks so far have been Castles and Coasters,, I don't want to miss the  opportunity to visit Six Flags Magic Mountain.

  Freezzo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/12
Posts: 235

12/06/12 8:47:57 AM#23
They were spot on as to say their intended target with a WoW clone was WoW :D

"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
And for MMORPGs ever so true...

  CyclopsSlayer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 532

12/06/12 8:50:33 AM#24
The Jobsian Reality Distortion field misfired and rather than making the hordes march in lockstep to their tune, it instead convinced them selves that they could do no wrong as they started the march of lemmings off the nearest cliff.
  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

12/06/12 6:52:31 PM#25
Originally posted by Zorgo
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by grimal

Man, you can argue this for a number of huge releases over the past decade.

Vanguard: everyone thought this was going to be the new king MMO before it launched.  With Brad behind it, no one expected it would be anything less than stellar.

Tabula Rasa - Richard Garriot's new sci-fi MMO?  The same guy who brought us UO?  Who would have thought it would have closed down so quickly.

DDO - A DnD MMO?  I think this was another of the first big name established IPs coming to the MMO world.  Most thought it would blow the roof off.  Aftewards, people complained it was more of a lobby game than anything else.

AoC - Remember those mounted combat videos prior to release?

Matrix Online - for those around at the time..well....we all know what happened.

GW1 - "The revolution is here!"  It will be the end of the P2P model.

GW2 - DEs will change the landscape of MMOs.  It's a paradigm shifting masterpiece.  It will spawn years and years of GW2 clones.  Release day will be a day marked in history.  People will never be able to go back to the MMOs before it.

and the list goes on and on and on....this really is nothing new.

 

This is exactly right, and exactly why I won't be buying another themepark game unless I see something truly mind-blowing. Also, the game company behind it doesn't matter that much.  Blizzard's Titan, for example, is more likely to suck than not, if we are using the past eight years as a guide.

I appreciate your point, but I'm not sure it leads to a 'never' for me. 

For two reasons:

1. All advertisers until the end of time will exagerate/hype. I believe it is the duty of consumers to see through this. Therefore, the above statements, I took them all with a grain of salt, and thus enjoyed many of the above titles.

2. Just because all the parks so far have been Castles and Coasters,, I don't want to miss the  opportunity to visit Six Flags Magic Mountain.

It's not a matter of hype for me.  I've been doing this long enough that I've just assumed the money I spend will be a loss, until proven otherwise.  However, there have been enough themepark MMOs that failed to keep me interested that I will no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3469

12/06/12 10:13:28 PM#26

Funny read..

Talk about some serious Kool Aid drinking.. lol  I can't believe they bought their own hype..

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

 
OP  12/06/12 10:17:38 PM#27
Originally posted by Freezzo
They were spot on as to say their intended target with a WoW clone was WoW :D

I don't get it.

It's like someone opening a pizza restaurant with slightly less tasty pizza just across the street of a pizza hut, hoping for killing pizza hut.

They should have gone for a sushi restaurant.

But hey what do I know, EA is a lot smarter than I am..

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  stygianapoth

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/12
Posts: 186

12/06/12 10:18:12 PM#28
I don't care about the story, I care about a good game.
  mmoguy43

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2347

12/06/12 10:54:22 PM#29
I don't think BW was as responsible for this as EA was. EA saw WoW profits. They wanted the same and put together an "unfailable" mixture of SW and BW for the ultimate MMORPG. But whatever, BW is essentially dead now and SW was sold.

Let's build the ultimate MMO 1 feature at a time
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398555/page/1

"blocked nariusseldon since forever"

  hockey98

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 37

12/06/12 11:06:17 PM#30

So this is what we are resorting too?  We have to go back to an article that is over 4yrs old?  Lets see a company is getting ready to release any product  what would you expect them to do?  Yes they are going to hype up their game just like every other MMO ever release.  I think this game has that potential, with a premiere developer behind it; with a clear differentiating feature being story and something that’s very compelling, and being a feature that’s true to BioWare’s expertise as well as the Star Wars brand; plus the power of the Star Wars brand, which is still doing very, very well 30 years after it started,Oct 24, 2008” he said.  The KEY word here is "think" he did not say "know".  

 

There is a reason why most mature resonable MMO players stay away from sites like this.  SWTOR is probably top 5 in MMO's right now, and will be for quite some time.  Its understandable that the SWG crew is still bitter and will never stop bashing SWTOR for taking away their precious.  There will always be those games that lost a few player to play SWTOR and those players will be bitter also.  For the last year sites like this have had people spend coutless of hours bashing a GAME that other people enjoy.  They have whinned, cried, threw little temper tantrums over a GAME and for what? So we can come to this point in time....get ready for this a current quote from people from SWTOR...I understand those named above will find something here to whine and cry about but nothing will ever change that. 

 


While talking about the current game (not over 4 years ago)Schubert concurred, and he also mentioned that the numbers support BioWare's current position. "Almost every conceivable metric is better. The numbers have blown away our expectations, which means good things for the players and the game,Nov 30th 2012" he said.

  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 671

12/06/12 11:11:05 PM#31
Only lots of free players is all most meaningless. Granted they let Tor brag about people playing, but what's needed in money not freeloaders.
  hockey98

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 37

12/06/12 11:17:35 PM#32

So why isnt anyone going off at ANET for this quote?

 

That’s what ArenaNet head honcho Mike O’Brien thinks, saying in a recent interview with Forbes that

“We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO… One MMO has been on the top of the heap for seven years now, but there’s been a progression in the industry for other games being able to attract more and more players. And we’re set to climb to the top.”

Bold words, indeed.

 

 

How was that climb to the top?  From what I hear it must be a pretty long fall from the clouds they were dreaming in. 

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

12/07/12 1:16:01 AM#33
Originally posted by hockey98

So why isnt anyone going off at ANET for this quote?

 

That’s what ArenaNet head honcho Mike O’Brien thinks, saying in a recent interview with Forbes that

“We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO… One MMO has been on the top of the heap for seven years now, but there’s been a progression in the industry for other games being able to attract more and more players. And we’re set to climb to the top.”

Bold words, indeed.

 

 

How was that climb to the top?  From what I hear it must be a pretty long fall from the clouds they were dreaming in. 

I think the OP was trying to punch a hole in the argument that many people put forth that SWTOR was never supposed to compete directly with WoW and that games shouldn't be directly compared with each other in terms of success but looked at individually for their own merits. Your counter argument is essentially, "Well GW2 didn't compete directly with WoW and they wanted to."

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1170

12/07/12 1:40:33 AM#34

Friend quoted me this from somewhere the other day.

" It's not WoW's format/gameplay that made it successful. It was timing. Were it to be released today, it would see about as much success as SWTOR - a decent number of sub and generally enjoyable game, but nothing to write home about.
 
WoW is a classic case of bringing the right product to the right market at the right time. It's format/gameplay has nothing to do with it; if it did, all of the copies floating about wouldn't be crashing and burning so easily."

It does sort-of seem true because if wow's gameplay was really all that good, then the clones that play very much like it wouldn't be crashing and burning as hard as they seem to do. I just expected more out of bioware, they used to be one of my favorite game devolopers. Though I did know once EA bought them out (or is it a partnership? I am unsure correct me on this if it wasn't a buyout) that they would end up going downhill, since they are bascally forced to do what EA says.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Pivotelite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 2195

12/07/12 1:50:57 AM#35
Originally posted by hockey98

So why isnt anyone going off at ANET for this quote?

 

That’s what ArenaNet head honcho Mike O’Brien thinks, saying in a recent interview with Forbes that

“We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO… One MMO has been on the top of the heap for seven years now, but there’s been a progression in the industry for other games being able to attract more and more players. And we’re set to climb to the top.”

Bold words, indeed.

 

 

How was that climb to the top?  From what I hear it must be a pretty long fall from the clouds they were dreaming in. 

Never seen this quote but it 's right up there with EAs dillusional, clueless thoughts.

 

You just can't match WoW because it is a worldwide name, marketed better than any other MMO in history and has stood the test of time.

 

You can't release a game and expect to get anywhere close to WoW.

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

12/07/12 2:10:10 AM#36
Originally posted by Siveria


 
WoW is a classic case of bringing the right product to the right market at the right time. It's format/gameplay has nothing to do with it; if it did, all of the copies floating about wouldn't be crashing and burning so easily."

It does sort-of seem true because if wow's gameplay was really all that good, then the clones that play very much like it wouldn't be crashing and burning as hard as they seem to do.

Problem with that is that *NO OTHER  GAME* actually successfuly copied WoWs gameplay. Not even the simple stuff like fluidity of movement animationsa nd other basic mechanics - forget about features.

So that's your argument out the window right there and then.

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2614

12/07/12 2:21:54 AM#37
Originally posted by Siveria

Friend quoted me this from somewhere the other day.

" It's not WoW's format/gameplay that made it successful. It was timing. Were it to be released today, it would see about as much success as SWTOR - a decent number of sub and generally enjoyable game, but nothing to write home about.
 
WoW is a classic case of bringing the right product to the right market at the right time. It's format/gameplay has nothing to do with it; if it did, all of the copies floating about wouldn't be crashing and burning so easily."

It does sort-of seem true because if wow's gameplay was really all that good, then the clones that play very much like it wouldn't be crashing and burning as hard as they seem to do. I just expected more out of bioware, they used to be one of my favorite game devolopers. Though I did know once EA bought them out (or is it a partnership? I am unsure correct me on this if it wasn't a buyout) that they would end up going downhill, since they are bascally forced to do what EA says.

Your friend is partially wrong.  WoW's success actually had a lot to do with its format/gameplay.  It was the first MMORPG marketed towards a fanbase other than basement dwelling D&D nerds with no social life.  When the game released, it was far easier than any other MMORPG on the market and required far less time spent in-game to actually progress.

The only area where timing came into play was the fact that Blizzard was the first to go after that specific audience.  Due to all that combined with Blizzard's excellent brand recognition WoW exploded.

The problem is that after WoW's innitial success, the market became flooded with simple minded developers without an original thought in their heads who thought they could slap on an established IP and copy WoW feature by feature to retain a sizable subscriber-base.  Time and time again, this has proven to be a foolish idea as no recently released MMORPG can compete with a game that has 7 years of content patches behind it.

I don't think SW:TOR is deserving of the amount of hate it gets simply because it's not all that different from most other MMORPGs that have tried and failed to compete with World of Warcraft.  SW:TOR's problem was that It was a massive disappointment to a lot of people who saw it as their MMO savior.  When it didn't deliver what was expected, mass hysteria ensued.  SW:TOR now catches flack for EA's previous comments about surpassing WoW and for reportedly being the most expensive MMO in history, but if you judge the game by the game itself and not by the circumstances surrounding it, I don't think you can make a compelling argument without throwing nearly the entire genre under the bus.  Some people, of course, are doing that, but my issue isn't with them.

  User Deleted
12/07/12 4:21:47 AM#38
Originally posted by SuperXero89SW:TOR now catches flack for EA's previous comments about surpassing WoW and for reportedly being the most expensive MMO in history, but if you judge the game by the game itself and not by the circumstances surrounding it, I don't think you can make a compelling argument without throwing nearly the entire genre under the bus.  Some people, of course, are doing that, but my issue isn't with them.

It catches flack because its mindless WoW clone with voiceovers that they spent so much money on.

Judging the game by itself - 4/10

And no, puting down SWTOR is NOT putting down whole MMO genre just EQ/WoW branch of genre that got so stale, unappealing and "classic" anti social endgame that even if you have 300-500m$, experienced developers, most famous IP in the world and reknown company you can count on going F2P un under a year because 85% of players will quit in 3-6 months and you wil be in the red.

Its well deserved, they designed 2004 game and wanted success in 2012.

And WoW was exactly right product for right market in the right time, they were mostly lucky. But also kudos to Blizzard that made enough change to the game which specifficaly EQers saw as "doom of the genre". EA didnt have the balls to do that.

OTOH SWTOR is wrong product for wrong market at the wrong time.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3469

12/07/12 5:48:40 AM#39

     The one thing WoW has going for it back then, not as much today is replayability..  I played WoW for 4 years, and during that time I had alts up the wazzooo.. With the original 6 major starting cites, there was always multiple paths to take..  As I recall along with those 6 starting locations where 30+ leveling zones.. Lets be honest here, alot of the problem I have with games today is the easy lazy path to max level, and no variety in leveling.. 

     Look at Rift.. After you get past the starting zone, the landscape is identical for every ALT, you play..  That makes it borning as hell.. I play MMO's for the journey, not the end game.. So when today's devs make these games like Rift, SWTOR and Tera, all I see is single path to explore, and repeatable end game grind..  That is not the MMO I grew up on..

     Just because my local park has a ferris wheel and merry go round, does not make it an amusement park with charging me $49.95 to enter..  Get the idea?

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

 
OP  2/25/13 7:48:43 PM#40
Originally posted by Rydeson

     Look at Rift.. After you get past the starting zone, the landscape is identical for every ALT, you play..  That makes it borning as hell.. I play MMO's for the journey, not the end game.. So when today's devs make these games like Rift, SWTOR and Tera, all I see is single path to explore, and repeatable end game grind..  That is not the MMO I grew up on..

     Just because my local park has a ferris wheel and merry go round, does not make it an amusement park with charging me $49.95 to enter..  Get the idea?

The magic is word is "alternative leveling zones" to roam around freely and do quests like you want in a broad level range. WoW and Age of Conan obviously got it right, others not so much. Linearity sucks.

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

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