Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by Karteli

I can craft all the latest and greatest item enhancements.. but why would I bother?  So can everyone else .. and yes the game was out long enough for most max level players to have alts.  So everyone else can.

Going into whether the crafting skills are useful based on there utility and whether or not everyone else can craft them is an entirely different matter. Another topic, another day. Personal preference on whether it's fun or not doesn't make it useless as far as supplying items goes.

Though it's not as simple as you think - leveling a craft to max doesn't equal having all the endgame recipes. You have to reverse engineer rare drops to unlock rarer recipes (which happens at a lower and lower % of chance the rarer the item you RE is) as that chart I linked before showed, and only then can you craft the item. Obviously everyone can't craft them, as there's a healthy market for the rarer goods.

For example, I searched the official forums for making credits. The first result was full of people giving advice on reverse engineer everything, sell them on the market once you get the recipes, sell augments, and sell the rare materials from gathering crew skills: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=565127

Sadly, I know about reverse engineering.

Anyways, it doesn't discount what I said, about crafting being boring and useless. 

Crafting I suppose is kept alive only because of EA's new patches when "they" raise the bar.  I suppose it's "usefullness" becomes "necessary" when item-bonus's gets outdated.  It's still boring.  Stats go up by 10% .. wooptie-doo. joy.  It's WoW all over (Except WoW had interesting craftable items).

While I question why you went to the official forums ... what was the second result?

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by mnwild1998

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by Karteli

As it stands though, end-game-crafting is fucking useless in SWTOR. The max set is inferior to what any max level character would want to wear.  If I were to mention WoW, I might mention that they had craftable items which had unique effects, only obtainable via crafting :P

No, it's not. Read my post above I edited. You obviously didn't make it to endgame and speaking from what you heard as your required to buy high tier augments and mods to fill in your endgame gear that you get from OP's.

WoW's crafting is different. You only craft items, not mods and augments, there. Crafted gear is subpar for endgame-acquired gear in SWTOR, yes. But augments and mods that are crafted still have there place. Two completely different things.

 

He clearly has not played anywhere near end game.  I would dare him to run Lost Island (flashpoint) or hard mode/nightmare ops without using crafted stims. 

Great correlation, .. because playing a flashpoint is just like crafting. /fail

I love flashpoints, I have adrenaline rush when I go through lost Island. Much better instances that any game I played before... especially HM.

Originally posted by mnwild1998

He clearly has not played anywhere near end game.  I would dare him to run Lost Island (flashpoint) or hard mode/nightmare ops without using crafted stims. 

You DONT need stims for anything bro.

Thats unless you suck and need stats well above required.

I still remember people like you telling others "you need AT LEAST Tionese for HM FPs" and we were farming those in blue quest gear in second week rofl

Originally posted by Draron

This whole discussion was how crafting relates to endgame. The flashpoint he referenced and how crafted stims play a role directly relates to the discussion, as Lost Island is a stepping stone to endgame - it's the last before you start operations.

As to how crafting outside of biochem is useful to endgame, I'll explain one more time. At endgame, you do operations for gear. That gear has open mod slots (for lower tier endgame gear) and augment slots (every tier of endgame gear has at least a few of these). The best stat items you can fill these with are reverse-engineered crafted items (there's a few exceptions, as some world mobs drop a few best in slot items, but a majority belong to crew skills).

I don't understand why you ask to explain it if you've said before that it is useless unless you just want to bash the game. -_-

Wrong wrong and wrong

You dont have a clue what is the "path to endgame"

The best and most efficient way to get BIS mods is to shop for various other classes gear and other sets from your class (specific pieces with desired mod).

I used to have 5-7 same pieces just because they contained BIS mods (be it mod or enhancement).

You are very poor when it comes to "how to gear yorself up"

Originally posted by Draron
Alright, we're going in circles. We can call it quits here? Crafting in TOR has it's uses despite what you said before, they're just not to your liking so you think it's useless.

Originally posted by Draron

This whole discussion was how crafting relates to endgame. The flashpoint he referenced and how crafted stims play a role directly relates to the discussion, as Lost Island is a stepping stone to endgame - it's the last before you start operations.

As to how crafting outside of biochem is useful to endgame, I'll explain one more time. At endgame, you do operations for gear. That gear has open mod slots (for lower tier endgame gear) and augment slots (every tier of endgame gear has at least a few of these). The best stat items you can fill these with are reverse-engineered crafted items (there's a few exceptions, as some world mobs drop a few best in slot items, but a majority belong to crew skills).

I don't understand why you ask to explain it if you've said before that it is useless unless you just want to bash the game. -_-

Wrong wrong and wrong

You dont have a clue what is the "path to endgame"

The best and most efficient way to get BIS mods is to shop for various other classes gear and other sets from your class (specific pieces with desired mod).

I used to have 5-7 same pieces just because they contained BIS mods (be it mod or enhancement).

You are very poor when it comes to "how to gear yorself up"

Endgame gear has augment slots to fill up. Players make those. Not going to go back and forth, but it's simple as that.

Originally posted by mikahr

 

 

Except for BioChem, no it does not. Its useless and just a money sink. And you can gear lowbie alts, but thats also pretty pointless.

You can deconstruct any end game gear and craft it. There are crafters in game making tens of millions doing this as end game gear sells for 1-2 million a piece or 100's of thousands for mid-tier purples. People need a cash sink anyway and dailies give enough money for new 50's to buy some items much better than HM's or daily coms will give and even better than Black Hole items.

Crafting is becoming MUCH more than you are making it out to be. You obviously have  a very dated opinion. Obviously there is a ton of room for change. 

Originally posted by Draron

The BIS mods/augments is crafted. Point blank. How do you get them?

Do you guys even read what you quote? Since the answer to what you asked is in the quote....

Yes they CAN be crafted, and YES its by far least efficient way to do it (augments are only crafted (well not entirely true, but lets leave it at that, just to say i have plenty of non crafted purple augments)).

And Lost Island requires Tionese or equivalent with NO stims (and 4 players that dont suck, if you cant pull it off, well, problem is you).

Originally posted by Tamanoushere are crafters in game making tens of millions doing this as end game gear sells for 1-2 million a piece or 100's of thousands for mid-tier purples. People need a cash sink anyway and dailies give enough money for new 50's to buy some items much better than HM's or daily coms will give and even better than Black Hole items.

 

Crafting is becoming MUCH more than you are making it out to be. You obviously have  a very dated opinion. Obviously there is a ton of room for change. 

Originally posted by Tamanous

Originally posted by mikahr

 

 

Except for BioChem, no it does not. Its useless and just a money sink. And you can gear lowbie alts, but thats also pretty pointless.

You can deconstruct any end game gear and craft it. There are crafters in game making tens of millions doing this as end game gear sells for 1-2 million a piece or 100's of thousands for mid-tier purples. People need a cash sink anyway and dailies give enough money for new 50's to buy some items much better than HM's or daily coms will give and even better than Black Hole items.

 

Crafting is becoming MUCH more than you are making it out to be. You obviously have  a very dated opinion. Obviously there is a ton of room for change. 

What about augmentation kits MK-6. Everybody needs them at end game and you can't get it in any other way than crafting. LOL just noticed I repeated what Draron said /grin.

The best looking double lightsaber in game - Truthseeker - see my sig, is also craftable, though you can get a bit better (pulsing gem in the middle) from cartel box /grin

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Draron

The BIS mods/augments is crafted. Point blank. How do you get them?

Do you guys even read what you quote? Since the answer to what you asked is in the quote....

Yes they CAN be crafted, and YES its by far least efficient way to do it (augments are only crafted (well not entirely true, but lets leave it at that, just to say i have plenty of non crafted purple augments)).

And Lost Island requires Tionese or equivalent with NO stims (and 4 players that dont suck, if you cant pull it off, well, problem is you).

Story mode I agree. Hard mode can be tough, but if you have good players who know what they doing sure. But that is normal with every MMO.  No way you can do it with Pug (not geared pug).

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

What about augmentation kits MK-6. Everybody needs them at end game and you can't get it in any other way than crafting.

This is what I was saying.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Story mode I agree. Hard mode can be tough, but if you have good players who know what they doing sure. But that is normal with every MMO.  No way you can do it with Pug (not geared pug).

I talk only of HMs and NiMs since story modes have absolutely no purple requirement.

And, gosh, as i said 4 PLAYERS THAT DONT SUCK.

PUG can also have 4 players that dont suck. Rarely but it happens.

Originally posted by Draron

This is what I was saying.

No, you were saying something else and then edited it, but NM.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

What about augmentation kits MK-6. Everybody needs them at end game and you can't get it in any other way than crafting. LOL just noticed I repeated what Draron said /grin.

The best looking double lightsaber in game - Truthseeker - see my sig, is also craftable, though you can get a bit better (pulsing gem in the middle) from cartel box /grin

Gasp, no nobody NEEDS them.

You DONT need augments for ANYTHING. Those are NOT required.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Story mode I agree. Hard mode can be tough, but if you have good players who know what they doing sure. But that is normal with every MMO.  No way you can do it with Pug (not geared pug).

I talk only of HMs and NiMs since story modes have absolutely no purple requirement.

And, gosh, as i said 4 PLAYERS THAT DONT SUCK.

PUG can also have 4 players that dont suck. Rarely but it happens.

I've been very lucky with HM's so far as my guild helps me through and they are well geared. I've healed each one with no deaths (other than a BH blowing himself up with too much aggro in about 2 seconds) and I am an operative med/conceal hybrid and not spec'd full med!

What I do like though is the expanding choices for getting gear (not so much pvp but pve for sure). Crafted items is pretty much a must to excelerate gearing up. You can earn millions of creds a week through dailes and even a fresh 50 can buy a 27 rated gear piece from the AH which is far better than columi you get from HM's. A 100-200k is earned easily with some fast daily runs so 25 rated purples can even be picked up every couple days if on market.

I've also seen rare orange slot gear selling well and all are an option to buy and augment slot to gear yourself or even companions up. Want set bonuses? Buys some Black Hole armor bits with comms and throw in any set. Takes about a week to gain enough for 1 or 2 pieces depending on how hardcore you do. Still learning all the new stuff but of course the community waits on Bioware still for far more promises not kept than kept.

Originally posted by Tamanous

I've been very lucky with HM's so far as my guild helps me through and they are well geared. I've healed each one with no deaths (other than a BH blowing himself up with too much aggro in about 2 seconds) and I am an operative med/conceal hybrid and not spec'd full med!

 

What I do like though is the expanding choices for getting gear (not so much pvp but pve for sure). Crafted items is pretty much a must to excelerate gearing up. You can earn millions of creds a week through dailes and even a fresh 50 can buy a 27 rated gear piece from the AH which is far better than columi you get from HM's. A 100-200k is earned easily with some fast daily runs so 25 rated purples can even be picked up every couple days if on market.

 

I've also seen rare orange slot gear selling well and all are an option to buy and augment slot to gear yourself or even companions up. Want set bonuses? Buys some Black Hole armor bits with comms and throw in any set. Takes about a week to gain enough for 1 or 2 pieces depending on how hardcore you do. Still learning all the new stuff but of course the community waits on Bioware still for far more promises not kept than kept.

Or you can just run 1 week of FP/SM EV/KP OPs dailies/weeklies and skip weeks of farming credits and end up with same/better stuff.

And NO, you cant earn millions of credits/week from dailies (unless you have few alts, but since it takes 3-4 hours to run them all, well), it would take 1 week of dailies to buy 1 mod, and you need 25 for full set. So, by all means, do it your way.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Story mode I agree. Hard mode can be tough, but if you have good players who know what they doing sure. But that is normal with every MMO.  No way you can do it with Pug (not geared pug).

I talk only of HMs and NiMs since story modes have absolutely no purple requirement.

And, gosh, as i said 4 PLAYERS THAT DONT SUCK.

PUG can also have 4 players that dont suck. Rarely but it happens.

Originally posted by Draron

This is what I was saying.

No, you were saying something else and then edited it, but NM.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

What about augmentation kits MK-6. Everybody needs them at end game and you can't get it in any other way than crafting. LOL just noticed I repeated what Draron said /grin.

The best looking double lightsaber in game - Truthseeker - see my sig, is also craftable, though you can get a bit better (pulsing gem in the middle) from cartel box /grin

Gasp, no nobody NEEDS them.

You DONT need augments for ANYTHING. Those are NOT required.

LOL maybe not required, but everybody wants them /grin

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

LOL maybe not required, but everybody wants them /grin

"Want" and "Need" are 2 completely different things.

Personally, i dont see a point in augmenting your gear, but then, i also dont see a point of gear treadmill in general (except to make you feel very hamster like and i dont really have a need to feel that way).

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

LOL maybe not required, but everybody wants them /grin

"Want" and "Need" are 2 completely different things.

Personally, i dont see a point in augmenting your gear, but then, i also dont see a point of gear treadmill in general (except to make you feel very hamster like and i dont really have a need to feel that way).

And personally I love augments... isn't it great we are all so different:) makes life so exciting :)

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

And personally I love augments... isn't it great we are all so different:) makes life so exciting :)

Many people like augments.

But i dont see how its related to crafting being useless (except BioChem ofcourse, but instead making other crafts useful they decided to bring BioChem near uselesness).

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

And personally I love augments... isn't it great we are all so different:) makes life so exciting :)

Many people like augments.

But i dont see how its related to crafting being useless (except BioChem ofcourse, but instead making other crafts useful they decided to bring BioChem near uselesness).

It's related because of crafting augmentation kits (and augments) :) Cheers:)

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

It's related because of crafting augmentation kits (and augments) :) Cheers:)

Yes, you can craft a lot of useless stuff. And?

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

And personally I love augments... isn't it great we are all so different:) makes life so exciting :)

Many people like augments.

But i dont see how its related to crafting being useless (except BioChem ofcourse, but instead making other crafts useful they decided to bring BioChem near uselesness).

many =/= most ;)

The augment system the way it's implemented makes tending gear for character and companions tedious.

LotRo system is far more convenient and gives much more freeness to the players.