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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » Since You're Complaining About F2P Restrictions....

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148 posts found
  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

11/21/12 7:58:07 PM#21
  1. Allow more char slots until they sort out the char slots, as atm can not play as can not create another char. The quickslot bar is not an immediate issue as can not even get that far!
  2. Stop restricting things like quickslot bars
  3. Make space missions completely free, as it is single player - What single player game exists that you have to keep paying for to play?
Overall all F2P games should concentrate on content, and items be obtainable through playing quests but devs too lazy to do so (SWTOR is no exception to this but will be even more so), or even an in game vendor using in game currency, instead of spending more RL currency.
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  11/21/12 7:59:15 PM#22
Originally posted by lizardbones

I'm not one of the whiners, but there are some things I would have changed.

* Anyone who subscribed even for a month would have the UI unlocks permanently unlocked.
* Character slots would have been something that could be purchased right off the bat.
* Preferred players would have one additional character slot.

It might not have occurred to me to restrict the UI and charge to have bits of it unlocked, though I would keep the cosmetic unlocks, like being able to high the hideous head gear.

I think I would have tried to get as close to the Story part of the game being free, and the Operations, Flashpoints and whatever the other thing is being paid content. There would be lots of cosmetic options available for purchase.

Some future update would include being able to personalize your ship's quarters.

When I say F2P players have no right to complain, since they're getting a product for free, I don't mean that things can't be improved. That's not really directed at you, just stating that out front, so people know that I don't think things are perfect or anything.

With that said, I agree with some of your points.

1. The UI restrictions are unusual and a bad move on Biowares part. I'm a subscriber at lvl 18 right now, and I'm already using 4 hotbars. Not full mind you, but for seperating buffs, from actives, mounts, consumables etc.

2. I agree about the character slots.

  

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

11/21/12 8:02:30 PM#23
Originally posted by kevjards

i,m not defending their f2p restrictions but just that it could be put down to work in progress..i,e see what people like ,dislike etc..see what people complain about.those that want to play the game should give it some time for them to change what has been complained about.if you really want to play you will be patient and if not then you will go elsewhere.

lotro's f2p has had changes made to accomodate things the people didnt like or were upset about.dont ask me what,i cant remember,i just know they changed a few things.

if people dont like it they will leave in droves like they did the first time.all i would say is give them time..by all acounts they never expected this gamee to go f2p from what i read..i maybe wrong.

The problem with this is TOR really has a very short window of time.  For the most part LOTRO made changes around the margins.  People were mostly satisfied with the original concept.

Here there are very few on any side happy with the way this went down.  They need immediate cash infusions for this game to flourish.  They aren't going to get it.  And the longer you go, the less relevant you become.  The less relevant you become, the ability to appeal to people declines.

Really sort of is a downward spiral there's no easy way out from.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  11/21/12 8:04:40 PM#24
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I wouldn't have gone F2P right off the bat.

The box price was $60, the monthly sub base rate was $15/month.

The box price was discounted down to $11 recently - a good start. But they never tried anything else before jumping straight to F2P. They had a lot of wiggle room on the price of a sub.

Something like offering the limited client for free (which they effectively were doing with the trial), with a one-time $10 unlock (or box purchase) - with a $9/mo sub - see how that goes for a bit. If you don't want to pay the sub, you can unlock per-class the storyline and non-group gameplay for $10 ala carte - for the people that basically just see it as a single player game anyway. Pay the sub, you get all classes, drop the sub, you get your current characters plus one additional class without having to buy an unlock.

In the mean time, the real root of the problem isn't with the box or sub fee, or even with the cash shop. The root of the problem is with the game itself. So you have some room to maneuver on the price side, but if you DONT FIX THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE - it doesn't do you any good. So this is what I would really do differently - work on fixing the problems with the game. Rather than laying off the entire development team, I would have kept them busy pushing new content as fast as I could get them to implement and test it.

That's my main worry for this game. I do enjoy the class stories and the group conversations, but it doesn't seem like they're developing the game enough for subscribers to stay subscribed after they exhuast the content. I wonder whatever happened to  having constant updates to the class stories and etc?

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  11/21/12 8:07:58 PM#25
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by nate1980

...how would you of done it? K

Easy:

 

 

Originally posted by Deewe

Let's start with the obvious:

 

The actual model for TOR F2P system is miss which hits a summit with making people pay for UI elements like quick slot bars.

 

Now here's how the model should have been designed:

  • Provide all the tools needed to enjoy the content to the player for free.
  • Have first steps of the story element free for all the classes.
  • Do not restict players on basic choices (Ex: allow players to create only 2 characters but with any of the species for free).
  • Set a very low fee for purchaseable item, consumables.
  • Do not restrict some items to the random packs only

 

The main idea driving the system would be hook the players in game with all the bells and whistles and have them pay for convenience items, quests hubs and fluff like pets, new gear skins/meshes. For the PvP, Operations, space missions have them (eventually) unlock them by bracket levels with a one time purchase.

 

Make sure not to set the pricing too high and here's where the real trick kicks in.

Have the pricing model setting the prices so low that players won't even feel like spending money at all.

While the quests hubs could be in the $5 range all the rest should be under $1

Recommending a piece of gear @ $0.90, no more and  consumables $0.10-$0.15

 

You want players to feel spoiled. This way you'll get more money by having hundred of thousands people spending happily a few bucks than trying to milk players with the actual fees. Also think about the word of mouth you would get: free advertizing = more customers

For prices set at  $0.10, $0.90 people will hardly hesitate before buying stuff at all, in the end spending much more than with a more obvious rip-off system.

 

All in all think coke not Ferrari.

 

D.

I agree

  iceman00

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/05
Posts: 1367

Kevin Tierney

11/21/12 8:08:42 PM#26
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I wouldn't have gone F2P right off the bat.

The box price was $60, the monthly sub base rate was $15/month.

The box price was discounted down to $11 recently - a good start. But they never tried anything else before jumping straight to F2P. They had a lot of wiggle room on the price of a sub.

Something like offering the limited client for free (which they effectively were doing with the trial), with a one-time $10 unlock (or box purchase) - with a $9/mo sub - see how that goes for a bit. If you don't want to pay the sub, you can unlock per-class the storyline and non-group gameplay for $10 ala carte - for the people that basically just see it as a single player game anyway. Pay the sub, you get all classes, drop the sub, you get your current characters plus one additional class without having to buy an unlock.

In the mean time, the real root of the problem isn't with the box or sub fee, or even with the cash shop. The root of the problem is with the game itself. So you have some room to maneuver on the price side, but if you DONT FIX THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE - it doesn't do you any good. So this is what I would really do differently - work on fixing the problems with the game. Rather than laying off the entire development team, I would have kept them busy pushing new content as fast as I could get them to implement and test it.

That's my main worry for this game. I do enjoy the class stories and the group conversations, but it doesn't seem like they're developing the game enough for subscribers to stay subscribed after they exhuast the content. I wonder whatever happened to  having constant updates to the class stories and etc?

Budgetary realities.  They didn't go F2P because it would lead to expanded profits.  They went F2P as a last chance at breaking even.  That stuff might come later, but only once they recoup their investment and offer a sensible return to their investors.

  Margrave

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 531

11/21/12 8:09:32 PM#27
I think a major issue that's brought up a lot of the hate would be them charging for quickslot bars. I have never seen a company charge for a UI element before. It's just absurd.
  User Deleted
11/22/12 3:28:59 AM#28
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

 

Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

And?

You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.

If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.

  DrunkWolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 1119

11/22/12 4:21:15 AM#29

I would charge people 50 cents everytime they use space bar to skip the endless bable from the NPCs in quest.

show me the money.

  Grinnz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 294

I just ate your cat!

11/22/12 4:32:35 AM#30
You could get rid of players that don't intend to spend a dime on the game easily by....keeping it p2p..

  Grimmx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 216

11/22/12 4:53:00 AM#31

I logged in on my lvl 40 to check out the hype and maybe play a little.

As it turned out i only had 2 quick bars so i logged off in disgust. Just to much work for the hassle. Funny thing is that i have no problem paying a sub either, but annoyed people dont like spending money.

Simply put, its about reeling people in, and not annoying them. 

 

  JRRNeiklot

Novice Member

Joined: 2/03/11
Posts: 107

11/22/12 5:02:58 AM#32
Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
  User Deleted
11/22/12 5:05:04 AM#33
Originally posted by JRRNeiklot
Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.

"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."

  User Deleted
11/22/12 5:12:30 AM#34
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

 

Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

And?

You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.

If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.

I still don't get this complaint.  Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50.  None of the classes are restricted, only races.  The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50.  Same goes for the AH limitation.  About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).

Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing.  It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions.  If that was the case, why would anyone sub?

  Grimmx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 216

11/22/12 5:30:35 AM#35
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Hey I really like this game and really want to play it.  I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea.  I prefer free to play games for this reason.

 

Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.

And?

You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.

If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.

I still don't get this complaint.  Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50.  None of the classes are restricted, only races.  The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50.  Same goes for the AH limitation.  About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).

Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing.  It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions.  If that was the case, why would anyone sub?

I wouldnt play 1-50 with the bar restriction.

That said i think the issue lies in how things are percived. 

Its just alot of annoying things.

  GenLock

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 12

11/22/12 5:46:32 AM#36
Originally posted by Corehaven

No worries. 

With Swtor's F2P system you don't have to worry about F2P players in your game for any longer than a few days.  How are they going to make a profit off F2P?  They won't.  When its that restrictive, its not going to appeal to anyone.  If the idea was to get people to pay a sub fee out of frustration, the plan will fail because if they were going to sub they already would have. 

You locked the action bars?   No bank what so ever?  Reduced xp for leveling?  The list is enormous.  But there is no reason to complain really.  Swtor isn't that good of a game anyways.  Now they have the worst F2P option in the industry on top of it. 

Agreed, just annoying someone into paying for a game they didn't play in the first place will not get them to fork over cash for it. The differences have to be much more subtle, stuff players would want, but not necessarily need for the game to function. Needed things like a bank and working action bars. I mean, f'ing with the ui and charging you to make it functional? Herpa Derpa. I see the darkness at the end of the tunnel. If they keep this crap up, they will be long gone before this time next year. Star Wars, couldn't have a better base to build a game around, so much lore to work with, and yet they manage to fudge the MMO's up every time.

_____________________

GenLock

  meddyck

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1134

11/22/12 6:54:53 AM#37

This game is closer to games such as Diablo 3 than it is to a full MMO. Therefore price it similarly. You should pay once for the retail box and thereafter have access to the game without a monthly sub fee. There should be no stupid restrictions on quickbars, banks, hiding your head slot, xp gain, etc.

There should be a cash shop that sells standard items such as xp boosts, items with unique looks that are not more powerful than items that can be earned in game, vehicles with unique looks, new companions, and new playable species.

There could be periodic new content packs (flashpoints, operations, space missions, warzones, even whole new planets) that would require a one time unlock at modest prices.

That's a model that I can see being the only way this game can thrive for years to come. It's probably too radical a move for EA right now. But they could easily make the current F2P implementation much more agreeable to players but just getting rid of a few poorly chosen and angrily received restrictions:

  • give F2P players at least 4 quickbars
  • give F2P players the same Sprint as subscribers
  • allow F2P players to hide their headslot
  • allow F2P players to use color matching
  • allow F2P players to customize their companions
  • allow F2P players the same use of Quick Travel and Fleet Pass as subscribers
  • allow F2P players the same use of reviving where they died as subscribers
  • allow F2P players to equip purple gear

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3555

11/22/12 7:13:02 AM#38
     The problem I have with the game is the value of fun..  The game in it's complete form with everything unlocked is worth maybe $5 a month.. With EA's gimped F2P options it's worth even less..  Most everyone left because the game just isn't fun and had little to do with subscriptions.. However, Bioware isn't going to do a NGE revamp, so the game is what it is and will NEVER greatly improve.. The only viable option is to play with how much does it cost to play..  I personally dislike their F2P set up.. It really rubs me as just another poor money grab.. 
  User Deleted
11/22/12 7:42:47 AM#39
Originally posted by asmkm22

I still don't get this complaint.  Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50.  None of the classes are restricted, only races.  The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50.  Same goes for the AH limitation.  About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).

Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing.  It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions.  If that was the case, why would anyone sub?

So, in short its not free.

What part of that you dont understand.

  Ahnog

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/05
Posts: 232

11/22/12 12:02:37 PM#40
Applaud Opening Post

Ahnog

Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

http://www.ahnog.us

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