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72 posts found
  n3v3rriv3r

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 323

 
OP  11/20/12 2:04:27 AM#61
Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by potaco

Well, this still sounds like a bunch of people whining. Even people that aren't affected by it ("oh, I'm only level 14")... Gimme a break.

 

You don't need it.

You can unlock it for CC if you want (and people have been).

You can unlock it for credits via the GTN if you want (and people have been).

 

I feel sorry for anyone who not only expects such things for free, but rages about them and demands them.

Most the people who is complaining about the F2P restrictions dont even know that they can buy pretty much everything from the GTN with ingame money. 

I mentioned my level 14 because the problems start soon after this.  I already have a 50 and a 35 from the first month, both of which are basically unplayable with 2 bars.

 

We know you can buy them for CC, hence the point of this thread Derpy.  Charging us to get basic UI elements is the epitome of greed and stupidity.  That's the MO of EA and SWTOR.

 

We know they show up for credits, and the only ones I've seen are for a price above the maximum number of credits a non subscriber can own.  Until those prices go down, non subscribers have to payCC for them. 

 

[mod edit]

 

It's not "trolling" to call someone out on their whining. Just because you refuse to unlock it since you don't want to spend real money on the game and/or object to the principle of it doesn't necessitate the company of being "the epitome of greed and stupidity". It's simply a different F2P model than we've seen before.

 

By the way, a big part of the complaints seem to be about "greed"... yet the vast majority of the complaints are coming from people wanting more for free. Are you there, Pot? It's me, Kettle.

You know, many people here already spent a lot of money for this game (game + subscriptions).

You insult disappointed people that genuinely believed their marketing propaganda before the release. You insult people believing that they will implement a fair f2p model.
The game is simply not worth spending money.I am telling people that you are wrong and the quickbar is not worth their money.

Your whining about how many people on this forums are freeloaders will not change a fact - at EA (or BW, I dont know who is really responsible for this debacle) are greedy.
  User Deleted
11/20/12 2:08:21 AM#62
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
It looks like BW has deleted all of the threads complaining about having to buy quickslot bars for cash.  At this point it would be a nightmare for them to no longer charge for them, since people have bought some on the GTN for credits.

They have been very agile in deleting them right from 15th :)

Not over the weekend or friday.  There were tons as of yesterday.

Over the weekend no, they go home over the weekend, on workdays, friday, oh yes, they removed at least 20-30 that i know of. And it starts when their NA work hours start and ends when work hours end, so in between that you can see those.

Originally posted by potaco

It's not "trolling" to call someone out on their whining. Just because you refuse to unlock it since you don't want to spend real money on the game and/or object to the principle of it doesn't necessitate the company of being "the epitome of greed and stupidity". It's simply a different F2P model than we've seen before.

 

By the way, a big part of the complaints seem to be about "greed"... yet the vast majority of the complaints are coming from people wanting more for free. Are you there, Pot? It's me, Kettle.


Except EA is the epitome of greed and stupidity, it wasnt voted worst company for no reason.

Charging for basic UI elements is the epitome of greed and stupidity (its EA were talking about here).

  potaco

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 82

11/20/12 11:34:12 AM#63
Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r
You know, many people here already spent a lot of money for this game (game + subscriptions).

You insult disappointed people that genuinely believed their marketing propaganda before the release. You insult people believing that they will implement a fair f2p model.
The game is simply not worth spending money.I am telling people that you are wrong and the quickbar is not worth their money.

Your whining about how many people on this forums are freeloaders will not change a fact - at EA (or BW, I dont know who is really responsible for this debacle) are greedy.

To be honest, I see no reason to even consider the money that was spent prior to the F2P conversion. If the game wouldn't have gone F2P, it's not like you would have magically gotten more for the money that you had already spent anyway...

 

If you were subbing before and keep subbing now, the game is essentially exactly the same.

If you weren't subbing before, you didn't have any access... and now you have some.

 

And as I've mentioned in a few other posts, making a regretful purchase is going to mainly be your own fault. In the day and age of ubiquitous forums, YouTube videos, reviews, and "betas" that are essentially "try-before-you-really-buy" events, there is no reason not to be an informed consumer. Do you really think that drinking Red Bull will give you wings, too?

 

If the game is not worth spending money on (to you), then, by all means, don't spend money on it! Other people find that it is worth it, so there's no need to "tell" them how they should or shouldn't spend their own money. Just because you don't feel that two quickbars are worth the $5 unlock doesn't mean that others feel the same.

 

I'm also not sure why you care so much about a company being "greedy"... They are not a non-profit organization. They want to make money. Additionally, nothing they offer is a compulsory purchase. Nobody is forcing you to play their games or pay for their unlocks. They could charge $1000 for every single login attempt if they wanted. If they take it too far and drive away all potential customers, then that would be their own fault.

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

11/20/12 11:44:11 AM#64


Originally posted by potaco

By the way, a big part of the complaints seem to be about "greed"... yet the vast majority of the complaints are coming from people wanting more for free. Are you there, Pot? It's me, Kettle.


I don't think the complaint is about wanting everything for free, F2P games need to make money somehow. But charging for hiding headslot, quickbars and whatnot are just absurd.


  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10429

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/20/12 11:46:51 AM#65


Originally posted by saxifr

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by potaco Well, this still sounds like a bunch of people whining. Even people that aren't affected by it ("oh, I'm only level 14")... Gimme a break.     You don't need it. You can unlock it for CC if you want (and people have been). You can unlock it for credits via the GTN if you want (and people have been).   I feel sorry for anyone who not only expects such things for free, but rages about them and demands them.
I didn't realize you could buy this stuff with in game credits. The quick slot bars are on the lower end of the spectrum for purchases, so they would be one of the easiest things to buy. Anyway, I agree. Anyone who's in it for the free content alone (the character stories) isn't going to need the extra skill bars. They really are a luxury item. Anyone who is in it for the 'premium' content is going to be spending money anyway. It doesn't matter that much what they're spending it on, because all of the items are virtual...one thing is just as valuable as another. I do think it was a poor choice though. More character slots would have been a much better item to sell.  
Am I confused? Or didn't you say in this very thread that people were mooching and just wanting the whole game for free when they brought up this very point?


I never brought up mooching. I don't see anything wrong with a game company offering free content, and I don't see anything wrong with players who play that free content and nothing else.

A lot of people are whining over a lot of nothing though. A lot of them seem to expect that they should be able to get a lot more game content for free. It wouldn't matter what restrictions EA put on the free accounts, those same people would complain. They are the whiners, and they whine. It's what they do.

Being able to buy things using the GTN from other players is a good thing. It didn't occur to me that EA would do that. It allows people to get things that they would otherwise have to spend money on. That doesn't make people moochers, it makes them active participants in the game.

None of this means I think EA made the best choices though. Instead of selling quick slot bars as a one time purchase, they should have sold extra character slots as a one time purchase. There's a reason for free players to buy extra character slots. There's not so much of a reason for them to buy quick slot bars, and people will obviously whine about it. There's even a reason for Preferred and Subscribers to buy extra character slots. That's just a good thing to sell in a cash shop. They should have consolidated the premium content unlocks into a single package as well. Buy an operations pass and you unlock a quick slot bar, that kind of thing. That would have been a better way to go.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  potaco

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 82

11/20/12 12:08:10 PM#66
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by saxifr

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by potaco Well, this still sounds like a bunch of people whining. Even people that aren't affected by it ("oh, I'm only level 14")... Gimme a break.     You don't need it. You can unlock it for CC if you want (and people have been). You can unlock it for credits via the GTN if you want (and people have been).   I feel sorry for anyone who not only expects such things for free, but rages about them and demands them.
I didn't realize you could buy this stuff with in game credits. The quick slot bars are on the lower end of the spectrum for purchases, so they would be one of the easiest things to buy. Anyway, I agree. Anyone who's in it for the free content alone (the character stories) isn't going to need the extra skill bars. They really are a luxury item. Anyone who is in it for the 'premium' content is going to be spending money anyway. It doesn't matter that much what they're spending it on, because all of the items are virtual...one thing is just as valuable as another. I do think it was a poor choice though. More character slots would have been a much better item to sell.  
Am I confused? Or didn't you say in this very thread that people were mooching and just wanting the whole game for free when they brought up this very point?


I never brought up mooching. I don't see anything wrong with a game company offering free content, and I don't see anything wrong with players who play that free content and nothing else.

A lot of people are whining over a lot of nothing though. A lot of them seem to expect that they should be able to get a lot more game content for free. It wouldn't matter what restrictions EA put on the free accounts, those same people would complain. They are the whiners, and they whine. It's what they do.

Being able to buy things using the GTN from other players is a good thing. It didn't occur to me that EA would do that. It allows people to get things that they would otherwise have to spend money on. That doesn't make people moochers, it makes them active participants in the game.

None of this means I think EA made the best choices though. Instead of selling quick slot bars as a one time purchase, they should have sold extra character slots as a one time purchase. There's a reason for free players to buy extra character slots. There's not so much of a reason for them to buy quick slot bars, and people will obviously whine about it. There's even a reason for Preferred and Subscribers to buy extra character slots. That's just a good thing to sell in a cash shop. They should have consolidated the premium content unlocks into a single package as well. Buy an operations pass and you unlock a quick slot bar, that kind of thing. That would have been a better way to go.

 

While I don't agree 100% with all the details, I do agree with the overall feeling. This entire debacle, no matter how you slice it, is about people complaining that the F2P option isn't "free enough" for them (considering that they weren't able to play at all without a subscription before this conversion).

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

11/20/12 12:16:19 PM#67


Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by saxifr

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by potaco Well, this still sounds like a bunch of people whining. Even people that aren't affected by it ("oh, I'm only level 14")... Gimme a break.     You don't need it. You can unlock it for CC if you want (and people have been). You can unlock it for credits via the GTN if you want (and people have been).   I feel sorry for anyone who not only expects such things for free, but rages about them and demands them.
I didn't realize you could buy this stuff with in game credits. The quick slot bars are on the lower end of the spectrum for purchases, so they would be one of the easiest things to buy. Anyway, I agree. Anyone who's in it for the free content alone (the character stories) isn't going to need the extra skill bars. They really are a luxury item. Anyone who is in it for the 'premium' content is going to be spending money anyway. It doesn't matter that much what they're spending it on, because all of the items are virtual...one thing is just as valuable as another. I do think it was a poor choice though. More character slots would have been a much better item to sell.  
Am I confused? Or didn't you say in this very thread that people were mooching and just wanting the whole game for free when they brought up this very point?


I never brought up mooching. I don't see anything wrong with a game company offering free content, and I don't see anything wrong with players who play that free content and nothing else.

A lot of people are whining over a lot of nothing though. A lot of them seem to expect that they should be able to get a lot more game content for free. It wouldn't matter what restrictions EA put on the free accounts, those same people would complain. They are the whiners, and they whine. It's what they do.

Being able to buy things using the GTN from other players is a good thing. It didn't occur to me that EA would do that. It allows people to get things that they would otherwise have to spend money on. That doesn't make people moochers, it makes them active participants in the game.

None of this means I think EA made the best choices though. Instead of selling quick slot bars as a one time purchase, they should have sold extra character slots as a one time purchase. There's a reason for free players to buy extra character slots. There's not so much of a reason for them to buy quick slot bars, and people will obviously whine about it. There's even a reason for Preferred and Subscribers to buy extra character slots. That's just a good thing to sell in a cash shop. They should have consolidated the premium content unlocks into a single package as well. Buy an operations pass and you unlock a quick slot bar, that kind of thing. That would have been a better way to go.


I talked to a guild member (our guild leader in SWTOR) last night and he confirmed that things can be bought through the GTN, but he also stated a serious problem for F2P players considering that- people are charging millions of credits for those items (bank access, inventory expansion, quickbar unlock) when F2P players are capped at 350K credits.


  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10429

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/20/12 12:49:47 PM#68


Originally posted by TeknoBug
I talked to a guild member (our guild leader in SWTOR) last night and he confirmed that things can be bought through the GTN, but he also stated a serious problem for F2P players considering that- people are charging millions of credits for those items (bank access, inventory expansion, quickbar unlock) when F2P players are capped at 350K credits.


I would expect that the market will take care of that. Your primary customers are going to be free or preferred players. If they only have 250k or 350k, they aren't going to buy those things. The subscribers, who could buy that stuff don't need it so they aren't going to buy them either. The only way those things are going to sell at all is if the price is within reach of the free or premium players.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  n3v3rriv3r

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 323

 
OP  11/21/12 2:46:09 AM#69
Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r
You know, many people here already spent a lot of money for this game (game + subscriptions).

You insult disappointed people that genuinely believed their marketing propaganda before the release. You insult people believing that they will implement a fair f2p model.
The game is simply not worth spending money.I am telling people that you are wrong and the quickbar is not worth their money.

Your whining about how many people on this forums are freeloaders will not change a fact - at EA (or BW, I dont know who is really responsible for this debacle) are greedy.

To be honest, I see no reason to even consider the money that was spent prior to the F2P conversion. If the game wouldn't have gone F2P, it's not like you would have magically gotten more for the money that you had already spent anyway...

 

If you were subbing before and keep subbing now, the game is essentially exactly the same.

If you weren't subbing before, you didn't have any access... and now you have some.

 

And as I've mentioned in a few other posts, making a regretful purchase is going to mainly be your own fault. In the day and age of ubiquitous forums, YouTube videos, reviews, and "betas" that are essentially "try-before-you-really-buy" events, there is no reason not to be an informed consumer. Do you really think that drinking Red Bull will give you wings, too?

 

If the game is not worth spending money on (to you), then, by all means, don't spend money on it! Other people find that it is worth it, so there's no need to "tell" them how they should or shouldn't spend their own money. Just because you don't feel that two quickbars are worth the $5 unlock doesn't mean that others feel the same.

 

I'm also not sure why you care so much about a company being "greedy"... They are not a non-profit organization. They want to make money. Additionally, nothing they offer is a compulsory purchase. Nobody is forcing you to play their games or pay for their unlocks. They could charge $1000 for every single login attempt if they wanted. If they take it too far and drive away all potential customers, then that would be their own fault.

1. Your posts are mainly straw man arguments, do you realize  this? where did I mentioned that I regret my purchase?

2. Yes, there is a need to "tell" them how they should spend their money. You know why? Because this is a forum. You are telling them that they should do it, so what is the problem?

3. You still insist using the absurd straw man argument that I created this thread because I want everything for free. This is so dishonest that just points out your lack of arguments.
Ok let me put it this way: their decisions are so greedy that they will drive away all potential customers. But still the main reason why they will lose potential and existing customers is... yeah you guessed it ... GREED. You can rationalize all you want why they do it or that they need income or that they are a profit organization - doesnt help.

  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

11/22/12 6:03:16 AM#70
Originally posted by lizardbones

I would expect that the market will take care of that. Your primary customers are going to be free or preferred players. If they only have 250k or 350k, they aren't going to buy those things. The subscribers, who could buy that stuff don't need it so they aren't going to buy them either. The only way those things are going to sell at all is if the price is within reach of the free or premium players.

 

You're ignoring the potentially large market of current subscribers who could buy unlocks at prices F2Pers can't afford then cancel their own subscriptions and use the unlocks they purchased.

Camelot Unchained Founder
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  AzurePrower

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 1530

Ahh yes, "Hypers." The people who praise and hate every MMORPG... We've dismissed that claim.

11/23/12 3:38:03 AM#71

Wow. Just wow. Here I was thinking. "I wonder how SWTOR F2P is going? Maybe I should login and check it out."

Then this.


Bravo EA. Bravo.


Makes you wonder why they went F2P at all... oh wait!

  Grimmx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 207

11/23/12 4:14:28 AM#72
Originally posted by potaco
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by potaco

Well, this still sounds like a bunch of people whining. Even people that aren't affected by it ("oh, I'm only level 14")... Gimme a break.

 

You don't need it.

You can unlock it for CC if you want (and people have been).

You can unlock it for credits via the GTN if you want (and people have been).

 

I feel sorry for anyone who not only expects such things for free, but rages about them and demands them.

Most the people who is complaining about the F2P restrictions dont even know that they can buy pretty much everything from the GTN with ingame money. 

I mentioned my level 14 because the problems start soon after this.  I already have a 50 and a 35 from the first month, both of which are basically unplayable with 2 bars.

 

We know you can buy them for CC, hence the point of this thread Derpy.  Charging us to get basic UI elements is the epitome of greed and stupidity.  That's the MO of EA and SWTOR.

 

We know they show up for credits, and the only ones I've seen are for a price above the maximum number of credits a non subscriber can own.  Until those prices go down, non subscribers have to payCC for them. 

 

[mod edit]

 

It's not "trolling" to call someone out on their whining. Just because you refuse to unlock it since you don't want to spend real money on the game and/or object to the principle of it doesn't necessitate the company of being "the epitome of greed and stupidity". It's simply a different F2P model than we've seen before.

 

By the way, a big part of the complaints seem to be about "greed"... yet the vast majority of the complaints are coming from people wanting more for free. Are you there, Pot? It's me, Kettle.

Nah this is plaing wrong.

Just look at the list over what they have taken away in the "free game" to squeese cash out of people and tell yourself its not stupid.

Sure they still want to earn money in a F2P game, but they have to get people playing past lvl 40 then reel them in. They need to do it in a subtle way, not like this. They need to do it in a way that people dont mind paying, and even be happy about it.

I have no problem paying subscription, but the way they are going about this is plain stupid. I played the first month and had several chars ranging from 20 to 40. I quit because i didnt enjoy the game that much back then, not because of my sub price.

So here i go and think "hey, SWTOR has gone F2P", maybe i should log on and see whats up?

So i log on my lvl 40. Offcourse i have to respecialize and set up my skills to start playing. Thats when i notice i can only have 2 skill bars??...im like WTF ??' whats up with this?? I ask on chat and they tell me i have to use money to buy skillbars off the bat. Good luck playing a char at 40+ with only 2 skillbars.

Now im getting kinda annoyed, because i kinda feel " forced " to use money right away, even if i was " kinda " promised a F2P game. I just wanted to have a look at a game that " supposedly " had gone F2P...... So i just log off.

They have simply gone about this in a very unintelligent manner. Im really surprised people with so important jobs fail to understand human psycology so bad. Seriously, you need to reel in the fish before you sell it.

Im not that good at words, (especially  English) but this is bad marketing all over. Just look at the forums filled with complaints. 

 

 

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