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Star Wars: The Old Republic Forum » General Discussion » Trent Oster Thinks Fans Negativity and EA Drove Muzyka and Zeschuk from Bioware

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187 posts found
  Bardus

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 475

9/29/12 8:06:36 AM#141
Someone at Forbes must of lost their ass on EA stocks. Forbes is constantly posting negative articles on TOR when Forbes has nothing in the world to do with games LOL.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/29/12 8:11:35 AM#142

http://www.nintendo-gamer.net/2012/09/27/fifa-13-wii-vs-fifa-12-wii-the-shocking-truth/2/

 

One of reasons that EA get hate. 

  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

9/29/12 8:14:57 AM#143
Originally posted by jerlot65
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Link

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/09/28/trent-oster-thinks-fans-negativity-and-ea-drove-muzyka-and-zeschuk-from-bioware/

 

I would say I am not surprised that they would want to quit because of fan negativity. SWTOR "fans" venom could kill every body.

If that were true. the only thing proven is MMO fans are the crappiest fans for anything.  Problem with the cry babys, they dont know technical limitations, they have no patience, and all want something different,

All of us mmo fans are 90 years old, of course we have no patience, our time on earth is running out!!!

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  OG_Zorvan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/31/12
Posts: 646

9/29/12 8:20:16 AM#144

I have no sympathy for the Dr.s, at all.

They knew what they were getting into with EA.

They made a bet that money was greater than their integrity. They lost.

 

Edit: And Trent Oster and people like the OP blaming the fans is just one more common symptom of EAware's failure: passing the buck.

"It's not our/their fault!! It's the fans!"

 

EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

9/29/12 9:19:48 AM#145
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

I have no sympathy for the Dr.s, at all.

They knew what they were getting into with EA.

They made a bet that money was greater than their integrity. They lost.

 

Edit: And Trent Oster and people like the OP blaming the fans is just one more common symptom of EAware's failure: passing the buck.

"It's not our/their fault!! It's the fans!"

 

I do read a lot of "Stabbed in the back" statements on the SWTOR forums.

A partital list of their usual suspects are: Hardcore Raiders, quick level cappers, casuals, SWG fans, PVP'ers, MMO "locusts", anyone who liked WoW, anyone who likes Guild Wars, sandbox enthusists, probable paid competitiors posting in their forums, the economy, the receent demise of pay to play, EA, the Media, 2 million impatient former subscribers, chronic  complainers, haters, people who don't like to role alts,  space-barers, people who chose the wrong server to play on, SWTOR forum moderators for being too lenient, Reddit, 4chan, here,  etc.

The remaining SWTOR official forum community is honestly the most vitriolic fanbase I can recall coming across.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:30:19 AM#146
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Grim:

Critics are easily pleased by a prior reputation and a brown paper bag full of readies, hence swtor and d3 reviews

I was trying to make the point that you guys remembering SWG as this great game are looking at it through rose colored glasses.

The version of the game everyone remembers so fondly (pre CU) lasted 2 years.  Even during that time, the game didn't have a huge following.  There were the dedicated fans, like there are for any MMO, but it was not this revered game you all keep trying to make it out to be.

None of my friends liked it (I was an MMO player at that time).  I remember participating in Beta 3 and thought it was terrible (I still have the CDs if anyone doubts this).

Post NGE, the game was a ghosttown. Nearly everyone on these boards wished the game's demise and now suddenly it's gone and a vocal few are calling for it's resurrection?  Please.

Aside from it's sandbox features (which needed a full population for it to work) and the SW license, the game severely lacked.  It was bug-ridden, there was no specific time-period within the game...you saw stuff leftover from the clone wars to seeing items past EP 4-6...made no sense.  They added annoying little themeparks (rebel themepark, etc) but these were all poorly done.  There was no Galactic War or sense of War going on...you could be a rebel and sit right next to an Imperial and unless you flagged yourself on-duty, nothing happened.

Animations were broken...I love the immediately fall-down sprite when you were killed.

Once the population left from the game, it was an empty sandbox...devoid of anything to do.

The game shut down for a reason: NO ONE PLAYED IT nor LIKED IT FOR YEARS.  You trying to paint a different picture from the actual reality is desperate at best.

I played the game only because it was the SW universe, but it was not this great MMORPG you are all making it out to be.

/rant_off

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:34:03 AM#147
Originally posted by Tamanous

Seems to me SWTOR is the opposite of a critical darling. It would have to have had climbed in sales after release to be called that. Now I have said nothing about that matter really but SWTOR seems to me to be the farthest thing from a critical darling. In fact I would say Turbine's DDO and Lotro are critical darlings. They have maintained a level of players and have seem critical increases over time. SWTOR will always be known for not living up to expectations. The bar was set far too high (due to hype and more importantly cost) to ever be called a critical darling.

Point to me one of the Major Reviewers not giving this game a high score.

PC Gamer gave TOR a 93 (or close).  SWG was repeatedly termed "coaster of the year" by that game (meaning it's CD was of no use other than a drink coaster).

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:35:10 AM#148
Originally posted by Tamanous

There were elements to the game that were amazing but the game itself was terrible. Far far too many players are remembering it though rose-coloured glasses. I would absolutely love to see some of the mechanics implemented into other mmo's but SWG as a whole could not support itself. Long before the NGE the game was a ghost town only played by a small core playerbase. It certainly needed to have many core elements reworked to make it a success but sadly the oportunity was squandered with an attempt to turn it into a Wow clone.

Exactly.  Unless the person was a hardcore SW fan, chances are they didn't play the game.  The only people I knew that played were made up of this crowd.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:36:29 AM#149
Originally posted by superniceguy

SOE makes mistakes, and they tend let people pull their strings a bit much, but Smedley is a decent guy (although makes poor business decsions which gives SOE the bad rep) - when new games gets releases, by competitors, he always wishes them well, unlike EA who wants the games "to rot to the core"

Smedley is a decent guy?  Since when?  Since he admitted the NGE was a mistake?  Before that, the hatred for this guy on these boards was beyond anything EA has conjured since.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:37:51 AM#150
Originally posted by TarotMage

Pff - blaming the fans for Muzyka & Zeschuk's departure is like blaming the iceberg for the Titanic disaster.

 

Any smart businessman would have first done their research regarding EA's long and ugly history with game companies, followed by a  long pro/con debate, and finally an even longer debate. Maybe it's me but I just get a visual of EA pushing piles of money towards the good doctors, which then cues the classic eyes-turn-into-dollar-signs cartoon cliche' (insert sound of ringng cash register or the first five notes of "We're In The Money" here.)

 

Face it - partnering with EA is pretty much like spending your first night in prison with your three cellmates. The end result is pretty much the same.

 

 

Yes, hindsight is great, but we don't know the reasons why Bioware allowed themselves to be bought out by EA.  I'm sure there's a lot more to the story than simply greed on BW's part.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:39:50 AM#151
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

 

If you would put all your heart into creation of something that you thought was great  and after you finished it everybody would hate and bash the project you spent several years on, would you not like to quit and never touch anything connected to it?

I would. Especially if I would have enough money to not worry what I will put into my mouth tomorrow :)

Absolutely.  The "gamers" have been downright disgusting in their attitude.  People need to remember, there are real people behind all of this.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:42:02 AM#152
Originally posted by TarotMage

 

If I was going to put all my heart into creating something that was going to cost $200 million, take several years to complete and be enjoyed only by me it wouldn't matter if anyone else hated it. But if I put that same heart, money, and timeframe and knowingly release it to a vocal and exacting demographc you better believe that I'd be checking the thougths, criticisims and opinions of said demographic every step of the way.

 

Besides, we've all seen what 'artistic integrity' can do for a game's sales, right?

 

 

And we can also see how much that criticism is valid when you are surrounded by a bunch of "yes" men  and/or testers.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:44:22 AM#153
Originally posted by TarotMage

If I was going to put all my heart into creating something that was going to cost $200 million, take several years to complete and be enjoyed only by me it wouldn't matter if anyone else hated it. But if I put that same heart, money, and timeframe and knowingly release it to a vocal and exacting demographc you better believe that I'd be checking the thougths, criticisims and opinions of said demographic every step of the way.

 

Besides, we've all seen what 'artistic integrity' can do for a game's sales, right?

 

 

In  the end, you never know how the if the product will be a success or not.  There's no guarentee in any of this.  If there were, all these games since WoW would have been massive successes.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:45:40 AM#154
Originally posted by Karteli

Big projects have multiple departments.  So yes, If I spent years to develop art,music or story for SWTOR, then I found out that my core company I work for (EA) put a slop job of a graphics engine together to the point where mass multiplayer wasn't even possible (and revenue would be cut because nobody would play this game), then yes .. I probably would resign too.

 

Still hoping for Illum 2.0?  Keep hoping. (thanks EA for the slop job)

Easy to have that philosophy now.  But when put into the situation???

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:47:18 AM#155
Originally posted by SuperDonk

Imagine what Trion would be able to create with 5 years and a $200+ million dollar budget.

And owned by EA.  Imagine.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

9/29/12 10:49:27 AM#156
Originally posted by SuperDonk

 And SWTOR was a failure to many, including myself. Don't take it personal.

Just like a lot of people don't hold the opinions of those who bought MoP in very high regard.  Don't take it personal.

 

Edit: Sorry for the numerous back-to-back replies..

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Leoghan

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/03
Posts: 611

9/29/12 11:38:54 AM#157
Originally posted by SuperDonk
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

EA, EA, EA, blame EA, derp

 

Did EA create the railshooter? Did EA chose the Hero Engine? Did EA think it's a cool idea to have planets frozen in time with stiff NPCs?

 

Get over it, BW dropped the ball, EA is a freakin' publisher and not the game developer

 As easy as it is to blame EA, this post is exactly right.

 

EA gave Bioware plenty of TIME and MONEY to create a great MMO, Bioware just royally crapped the bed on this one. If anything the Doctors were asked to leave not the other way around.

Here is the thing that bothers me with this entire situation. They dump millions into voice acting, and for years we were told by BW fan boys on here and other sites that the voice acting and story was what was going to make people subscribe. We are not even at the 1 year mark and we've seen BW devs say that voice acting is too expensive and they seemed to hint that future story expansion wouldn't have it or as much of it. You are telling me no one could see that coming?

I've played five toons to level 50, after the first week I tuned out the voice overs. The stories are alright, but all way too short. The Jedi Knight Story line is so much more epic than the rest of them that after playing that one the others seem a little bit underwhelming (note - Karpyshyn who no doubt wrote the JK story line as it lines up with his Revan novel left BW shortly after SWTOR was released). So story is this big thing, but it takes less than a month of resonable play to finish one of the eight big stories. 

You might say - but they have end game right? Let's look at this logically, the game was hyped to be story based play, so not one that should have been extremely focused on endgame, so lacking a strong endgame experience might be expected. However since launch they have added almost zero story to the game that was not in the form of a flashpoint or Ops. Yet the people most inclined to play OPs are those least inclined to care about story and especially inclined to care about all eight of the profession stories. Even with these new Ops and flashpoints the amount of conetent out there to grind endgame and do the monotonous gear grind is really small, and often broken. It seem with each new patch rewards either break or get nerfed. Leaving even the hardest core raiding guilds dissatisfied and shaking their heads. 

So tell me someone please, how are any of these poor design decisions, conflicting prioprities and shortsighted plannings EA's fault? Clearly there are problems in the BW dev team that are deep to the core. Hell when you have a dev that comes out and says the fans are stupid for wanting more species (Erikson) you clearly have a problem. 

People are angry about this game because it didn't do anything great, it did a lot of mediocre things at best. And since launch has ruined a number of these things. Look at the server merges, the naming issues that arose because of that. Legacy surnames were once unique, somthing the player base in beta was livid about and the devs refused to budge, but now they are non-unique not because of the player base because the devs painted themselves into a corner with server merges. HK-51 and the Cathar have been dangled in front of players faces for a long time, yet it has become pretty evident that at least the Cather will be something that players have to buy in the new item shop. 

I'm sorry, any frustration the Doctors feel based off of fan disappointment in their games ultimately falls at their feet, either for allowing EA to steam roll them and being too concerned about losing EA's money to say anything (compliance) or by being negligent members of the BW staff. 

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

9/29/12 12:24:41 PM#158
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by superniceguy

SOE makes mistakes, and they tend let people pull their strings a bit much, but Smedley is a decent guy (although makes poor business decsions which gives SOE the bad rep) - when new games gets releases, by competitors, he always wishes them well, unlike EA who wants the games "to rot to the core"

Smedley is a decent guy?  Since when?  Since he admitted the NGE was a mistake?  Before that, the hatred for this guy on these boards was beyond anything EA has conjured since.

Do not confuse his business blunders with his good sense of humanity, read the rest of the post you quoted

He apologised for the NGE even though it was LA who made it happen. See a previous post of mine in this thread showing Julio Torres of LA highlighting the NGE. There are no videos or articles on the internet, where Smedley is talking about the NGE in the same delight as JT did. The only thing Smedley is quilty of the NGE for, is allowing it to happen, and not taking a stand against LA.

  SuperDonk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/22/10
Posts: 701

9/29/12 12:30:13 PM#159
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by SuperDonk

 And SWTOR was a failure to many, including myself. Don't take it personal.

Just like a lot of people don't hold the opinions of those who bought MoP in very high regard.  Don't take it personal.

 

Edit: Sorry for the numerous back-to-back replies..

 Coming from you I find it to be a compliment. Thanks!

I want to be Uncle Owen again.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

9/29/12 12:51:54 PM#160

The doctors left because their "senior exec" consultancy contracts were up and they did not feel like working for someone else, for a salary, at the company they used to own. (And one of the reasons you know this, is that had they left early, a penalty clause would likely have kicked in, and they BOTH left at the same time).

This is a very common occurence in the corporate world.

 

All the rest is a bunch of hot air, it was about the money (them not getting the profits anymore) and the control (which they did not have any longer).

 

 

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