Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by Chieftan

 GW2. 

Can't believe I paid for that stinker.  The only way it makes any money is if everybody goes in and buys a pirate shirt out of the cash shop. 

Twice a day. 

For a year.

WTF are you talking about? That doesn't even make any sense.

The cash shop is the only revenue stream GW2 has.  Once the box sales subside they better start selling some pirate shirts.

Originally posted by kartool

Actually, that's not how ROI works. ROI is something that happens over time. How long will it take to get the ROI is a question asked when a project is being planned, money is being asked for, etc.. It takes time to make that money back, that's why it's an investment. You need to be making a profit, yes but it's not like was expected that they'd make their ROI in the first month - it takes time for any MMO to become profitable because of the initial cost of developement, infrastructure, advertising, etc.

I don't think you quite understand how these things work considering what you're trying to say is "the basic concept of economics" - not "the basic concept of economy." Do you mean economy class flights? I understand that too, flown economy many times.  

Sorry, but your post actually shows that you have no clue whatsoever what you are talking about. Thats what happens when people want to meddle with things they "learned" from cheap magazines. And Donald Trump.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by Chieftan

 GW2. 

Can't believe I paid for that stinker.  The only way it makes any money is if everybody goes in and buys a pirate shirt out of the cash shop. 

Twice a day. 

For a year.

WTF are you talking about? That doesn't even make any sense.

The cash shop is the only revenue stream GW2 has.  Once the box sales subside they better start selling some pirate shirts.

Ummm...

MMOs these days basically cost jack to run once you pay off the initial development costs, and that is clearly the case since they sold X number of boxes now, what is it? 2-3 million? More? (I really don't know). When they have to stop selling the digitial dowloads because their servers are getting overloaded, that is a lot.

Future development can/will be largely paid with paid expansions (which will cover the developers salaries), and normal upkeep is not that expensive beyond that.

GW2 has sold enough boxes that the income from the cash shop will not end up being that important for the time being.

for me it was vanguard. a lot of potential with that game only to totally fail at launch, it still has a lot of the same issues it had when first released like 5 or 6 years ago.

IMO SWTOR is a good game, it just lacks in certain areas like pvp.

i had fun in that game for a while and a lot of other people did too.

a lot of people are attributing getting bored with it to failure.

in that case, pretty much every mmo now days is going to fail, especially "theme parks" that are designed like single player games and once you blow through the content it becomes just like every other theme park out there.

Originally posted by kartool

Originally posted by Bior337

Originally posted by kartool

Originally posted by Bior337

Originally posted by kartool

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

HAHAHAH, you call make million of dollars a failure????  Some people have no clue...

Yah, when you need tens of millons just to stay afloat and youre making only millions its called a failure.

So yah, ill give you a hint:

get a clue

You don't really understand the concept of return on investment, do you? It often takes time for large projects to break even and start making money. If you think TOR isn't going to end up making money when it goes f2p you're living in a fantasy world. 

Considering they've already had to fire half the staff and merge the servers, I don't think Bioware or EA expects to be making their money back any time soon, or they wouldn't be firing devs left and right.

That, my friends, is a complete failure. You don't go into a new product PLANNING to get rid of your staff. Especially not on a product you hope to grow over the years.

 

And yes, we DO have financial records stated by EA, and other inside sources. It would have taken them about 750k subs for a year and a half to make up just the money they spent on development, not even marketing (which was probably almost as large given all the coverage and CGI trailers). Currently, they don't even have 1/4 that many subs, and its been half a year.

 

It is the most expensive MMO ever made, and it is without a doubt, an unmitigated failure.

So we have one source saying 500k subs, you saying 750k and someone else in this thread stating 1 million subs needed to break even. Inside sources? Like pissed off ex-employees who always stay impartial, huh. A pissed off employee who has had his story confirmed by other people within the company, and who everything he said turned out to be true.

Is the game shut down? No. Therefore it's not a failure. Vanguard is still around, I guess that wasn't a failure either? Or Horizons? It didn't meet expecations and until they shut it down and show the game never made any profit, it's not a failure. People call AoC a failure yet it's healthy and has another expac coming soon. AoC bankrupted two companies and made a ton of people lose their jobs. They limp along with less subs than MMOs from the 90s have.

 

There's a good reason its called Tortanic. The biggest MMO ever built, more money lavished on it than any title to date. Two of the biggest development studios in the genre, the biggest science fiction IP in the world.

And a few months after launch and it is completely dead in the water, half the staff fired, most of the servers closed, and its being forced to go free just to find an audience.

I don't know how you manage to delude yourself into thinking that it didn't FAIL in what it tried to do.

I am talking about SWTOR as a business, not as a game. As a game it failed to meet expecatations, it failed to do what the developers wanted it to do. As a business, they are simply changing the business model to better serve or attract customers in order to make money. If the game had no chance of being profitable they would cut their losses and shut it down. If the game can still be profitable or is profitable, then it's not a failure. Job losses have nothing to do with it. If they did then GM would be failure, Microsoft would be a failure, etc. because they've all gone through periods where they've made massive cutbacks to their work force.

We'll see what happens when it goes f2p, that's about all there is to this entire argument. Switching business models doesn't mean something has failed.

Let me break it down into "business for dummies" terms:

SWTOR cost 200 fubalops to make

SWTOR so far has made 80 fubalops revenue

SWTOR is therefore currently standing at a loss of 120 fubalops

It is estimated the company could make another 60 fubalops through alternative strategies (ie F2P) for total revenue of 140 fubalops however the game would still make a net loss of 60 fubalops as it cost 200 fubalops to make.

Mr Bior here would cut his losses at 80 fubalops and throw away the chance at an additional 60 fubalops revenue because he is special.  The rest of the world would still take that 60 fuablops revenue even if it meanr they STILL make a net loss because 60 fubalops net loss is MUCH MUCH beyyer than 120 fubalops net loss.

For most it was expectations, a huge failure. Financially, no. Anyone claiming otherwise hasn't a clue how corporations function. This game still made money for EA. Did it meet investors expectations , no. Huge failure ? Perhaps in their eyes.

Personnally , it was the game I thought it would , brought to us by the same people that made KoTOR 1 & 2. If you expected something different you did to yourself.

Obviously it's about expectations and if they were met. To a lot of people , they weren't. It's all perspectitive and opinion. It'll be interesting to hear what people are saying about GW 2 , when they hit max level , max out and then realize more content won't be on the way for over a 6 mo , perhaps longer . Gamers are a fickle group.

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

For most it was expectations, a huge failure. Financially, no. Anyone claiming otherwise hasn't a clue how corporations function. This game still made money for EA. Did it meet investors expectations , no. Huge failure ? Perhaps in their eyes.

Personnally , it was the game I thought it would , brought to us by the same people that made KoTOR 1 & 2. If you expected something different you did to yourself.

Obviously it's about expectations and if they were met. To a lot of people , they weren't. It's all perspectitive and opinion. It'll be interesting to hear what people are saying about GW 2 , when they hit max level , max out and then realize more content won't be on the way for over a 6 mo , perhaps longer . Gamers are a fickle group.

Yes they are. They are like the kid who loves a cookie until its gone. Then  all hell breaks loose until you give him a new one. Then he complains because it was just like the one he enjoyed  five minutes ago.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by AG-Vuk

For most it was expectations, a huge failure. Financially, no. Anyone claiming otherwise hasn't a clue how corporations function. This game still made money for EA. Did it meet investors expectations , no. Huge failure ? Perhaps in their eyes.

Personnally , it was the game I thought it would , brought to us by the same people that made KoTOR 1 & 2. If you expected something different you did to yourself.

Obviously it's about expectations and if they were met. To a lot of people , they weren't. It's all perspectitive and opinion. It'll be interesting to hear what people are saying about GW 2 , when they hit max level , max out and then realize more content won't be on the way for over a 6 mo , perhaps longer . Gamers are a fickle group.

Yes they are. They are like the kid who loves a cookie until its gone. Then  all hell breaks loose until you give him a new one. Then he complains because it was just like the one he enjoyed  five minutes ago.

LOL. What kind of kids do you know?

Most kids can tell the difference between a good cookie and a bad cookie. Not you though.