Originally posted by Buffy_bites

SWTOR is dead until it goes F2P in November. The moment I have been waiting for

They are probably going to let WOW and GW2 have their moment, and then by Nov people will probbaly not be playing GW2 or WOW again, so then SWTOR will be more attractive. No point doing much now until Nov

Sorry but when it goes F2P there are only 40 percent more potential players and some have already stated that even if swtor goes full F2P, they wont even touch the game based on how bad it is in their opinion/view. I'm playing GW2 until the end/until SWG2. I can't see me touching SWTOR now that my friends left and SWTOR left me with disappointment.

Originally posted by Rayshe
I really think this is my point. Those who were unsatisfied with SWTOR left already, They gave up and played something else. The people still Playing SWTOR are playing it because they want to keep playing in the Sci Fi World rather than a fantasy. you have already left the Sci Fi prior to the release of GW2. so i can now enforce the idea. the people who left SWTOR for other games have already done so. BW wont feel the release of GW2 at all because the players still playing SWTOR, have no interest in it. people who were unsatisfied with SWTOR left it a long time ago.

 

Sort of.

 

I left SWTOR months ago because I wasn't having any fun.  I chose to go MMO-less, outside a couple dives into Aion.

 

You see the thing is, that I love sci-fi, and I was excited that a new Star Wars MMO was coming out.  What a boner killer SWTOR was.  The game started out great, I loved it - it had good detail, passion, and story.  Then, the more I played it, all I could do was engage in forced cinematics, without much else.  This is the game - story.  Nothing else.  There is so little feelings of community that I turned to the GTN (AH) to feel like I was playing with other people, buying and selling.  The GTN/AH interface blows chunks, and whoever designed this obviously never played a MMO.  Die in a fire :P

 

So, yeah, the people who wanted to leave left already.  The big question is whether the current small population of players will leave too.

 

I love sci-fi / sci-fantasy .. but hell if the only games that are fun to play are fantasy, then so be it.  I won't accept 10 fps during a minor SWTOR PVP encounter.  Really EA Bioware, you put a shitty game engine with the most popular IP in the world? For shame.

 

The thing that pisses me off is that on the SWTOR foums, all complaints about the game engine and sub-standard framerates are deleted, while threads saying "Oh what is the problem with the engine? I run fine! It must be your computer!" get to live on.  I call shennanigans, because as a former subscriber, the EA modified version of the Hero Engine sucks.. big time.  And I optimized my computer, even going into processes and disabeling various OS processes just to get more CPU cycles.

 

The SWTOR forums are just trying to sucker more people in to buying their box so they can mitigate losses.  Geez, George Lucas was a real moron for giving any license to EA.  Then again, Han Solo no longer gets the first shot...

 

/sigh

Geez, George Lucas was a real moron for giving any license to EA.  Then again, Han Solo no longer gets the first shot...

 

/sigh

Thats not how the world will remember Lucas.  Moron or not, SW:TOR means nothing to Lucas and his ultimate legacy.  It was just another Lunchbox with a Star Wars logo on it that we all bought.

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Geez, George Lucas was a real moron for giving any license to EA.  Then again, Han Solo no longer gets the first shot...

 

/sigh

Thats not how the world will remember Lucas.  Moron or not, SW:TOR means nothing to Lucas and his ultimate legacy.  It was just another Lunchbox with a Star Wars logo on it that we all bought.

The prequels, Jar Jar Binks, and Red Tails already hurt that legacy more than some slight association with a horribly made attempt at an MMO.

For me TOR represented the last big thing to let me keep living Star Wars (I had hoped until yet another, better Star Wars MMO replaced it).  I've been a fan for nearly three decades.  I'm not a fanboy.  I don't defend the direction of the EU or try to explain away the awfulness of the prequels.  I loathe canon arguments.   But God help me I like the setting.  I've played several Star Wars games, read numerous Star Wars books, and have a small action figure collection.  I used to play or read or watch something to do with Star Wars every month or two throughout my entire life.

 

Since TOR, I have lost interest.  These last six months are the longest I've gone in probably my entire life not immersing myself in anything Star Wars (except for this forum), and I don't feel any great urge to change that.

 

It's not just that I feel TOR undermined parts of the underlying story and setting that I liked; I think for me it was the end of the line in terms of Star Wars things I was looking forward to.  Yes, there will be new Star Wars games that will be played and beaten and set aside in a week, but part of being a Star Wars fan has always been about the speculation, anticipation, and the hype, however faint.  Wherever TOR was going to take the greater Star Wars story, I now find I couldn't be arsed to care.  There will probably be another epic galaxy-spanning Star Wars adventure tha has the potential to captivate me down the road, but it's so far away right now that I can't even muster the will to think about what it might be like.  In all those respects TOR's failure to deliver -- for me -- has "killed" Star Wars.

 

There might not be many like me, but I'm guessing I'm not alone.

 

With respect to the OP's point, despite all the spin being put on what's happened, I don't think Bioware had any detailed plans in place for this particular scenario.  Eight months in they should have been rolling out new content, but between the sharp drop in subs and activity through the srping, their difficulty in addressing essential gameplay issues in a timely manner (admitted by the guy now running the show), and EA's shreadding of the development team, I think they've been winging it for the last several months, which is not conducive to coming up with answers for major "shocks" to the market like GW2 or MoP.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Souldrainer
SWTOR just had an event last week. The game has turned a profit through CE, headphone, keyboard, mouse, and other merch sales, and their aub numers are over the "profitable" margin. That said, a large number of their fair weather fans have jumped over to Tera and TSW by now... so GW2 probably won't impact SWTOR.

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but (and this is unnecessarily blunt) but...

...that event last week was M'eh at best.

,,,,the game has not made back the cost of development and marketing by a long shot.

....the sub numbers which appear to have dipped below their day to day operations minimum ammount for profitability at 500k?

...the collector's edition that only had 50,000 pre-order units made? The CE that is selling for $29.99 and less collecting dust on shelves worldwide?

....if you are basing profitability on the few bucks EA makes on razer products (which amazon stocks at most 25 of) that's really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

....those "fair weather fans" all 2 million of them? What makes a non-fair weather fan of this game? GW2 is already impacting SWTOR. When more and more leave, will they be fair weather fans as well? When will you be concerned about all the unhappy people leaving the game? When you are down to one half filled server or when the shut off the lights?

Maybe I'm jut piling on. I'm happy you enjoy your game but I find your level of delusion frightening.

 

OK... every statment released by BW states profits + over 500k subs. I have seen your threads about your suspicions, and you're welcome to have them.. but you didn't post anything concrete, whereas EA has done so. If you're going to talk numbers and refute EA, this is again welcome, very much so... but please do add things up. The CE price didn't drop until the game announced ftp is coming... just one example of how speculation can steer things off course if numbers and proof aren't there... So believe what you will, but if you want to convince me, it will take more than what you've posted on this forum.

What EA said was 500k subs for a day-to-day operating profit. So initially they will have been covering their running costs.

Now they will - I assume - have reduced their operating costs and so they will now need fewer subs but there is also the cost of the free month to figure in. Free month =  no money. Same with free weekends etc.

What EA also said is that they needed 1M subs to "make a profit but nothing to write home about" - to quote JR, EA CEO. And the talk here was about long term subs not sales - EA actually saying it was subs not sales that were key. There was some discussion about how long they would need this level of subs and most commentators suggested 1 to 2 years. Obviously actual sub numbers, actual subs, free months, advertising and all sorts of stuff will play a part.

Key point: EA have never announced 1M "subs". The highest number they announced (in Feb ) was 1.7M "subs + 30 days included" and subsequently announced (in March) that just around half were "subs". So about 850k.

So whilst SWTOR was covering its costs - except when it was giving away free time - it has never been on track to paying back the investment.

And the sub trend has clearly been steeply down - as evidenced by EA announcing something between 500k and 1M at 31st July. This is almost certainly due to the 6 month folks who were coming up to renew from late August. EA would have been remiss if they had said 1M when they expected 500k a few weeks later.

And as a result it may well be below 500k now. Probably still covering its costs today but going forward - especially when it goes F2P ... going to be very hard. Very few F2P folks pay anything - Zynga numbers suggest thay they get most of their money from 5%. So to get the equivalent of 100k subs they could need 2M players .... tough sell. 

If Bioware is worried about GW2 they are doing a pretty good job of prentending not to be.

There has been little forthcoming from them in regards to the game's future content and implementation.

In the meantime, (and I realize that it's early yet) GW2 seems to be taking a significant chunk of their playerbase.

Not to open up an ld can of old worms, but here it is anyway:

http://beta.xfire.com/games/swtor

Players aren't playing as much or as long. Player loss seems to be reflected (but not as measurable) on Tor Status as well.

You could say that it's just because GW2 is new,  xfire favors pvp players, or it's a lull in content release from BW, or the GW2 hoppers will come back; but then again, maybe those players are gone.

To a certain degree MoP could do even more damage in about a month.

I excepect them to charge subs for Makeb and that to go over like a Led Balloon.

Even if you are excited about SWTOR's FTP, they are going to have quite an uphill battle to climb.

It is quite possible that they could start November with a subscription base of 150 thousand.

It will be intresting to see how they phrase their sub numbers in October.

I guess we shall see what we shall see.

why would they be worried? let it go hybrid payment model and they will be sleeping on cash. if you played any of the EA play4free titles you would know that they really bring tons of money with heavy pay2win setup, EA is not worried about anything.  just wait till it goes hybrid and you will see the change. 

Originally posted by Tibernicus
I think they're worried about themselves, not any other game. The design of their game is completely out of tune with their goal. Unless they scrap the whole thing and redo it, a la the NGE, they'll never make it back.

 

 

Can you imagine if they did a NGE on a SW MMO again!! The wailing and outrage! lol

 

Plus, then we would have to put up with, in 4 years, how SWTOR was the mythical 'best game evah that got ruined by the evil corperation'... despite the fact that no bugger was actually playing it before the change.

I don't think it will have that big an impact.  Since GW2 is a B2P game, people can maintain a subscription if they wish.  Also, I think that those who fled SWTOR were already gone.  I think those of us still playing enjoy it.  In my case, I'm in the boat of playing GW2 and SWTOR since it's only one subscription.

Originally posted by Rockhide

   But God help me I like the setting.  I've played several Star Wars games, read numerous Star Wars books, and have a small action figure collection. 

Since TOR, I have lost interest.  These last six months are the longest I've gone in probably my entire life not immersing myself in anything Star Wars (except for this forum), and I don't feel any great urge to change that.

 

There might not be many like me, but I'm guessing I'm not alone.

 

With respect to the OP's point, despite all the spin being put on what's happened, I don't think Bioware had any detailed plans in place for this particular scenario.  Eight months in they should have been rolling out new content, but between the sharp drop in subs and activity through the srping, their difficulty in addressing essential gameplay issues in a timely manner (admitted by the guy now running the show), and EA's shreadding of the development team, I think they've been winging it for the last several months, which is not conducive to coming up with answers for major "shocks" to the market like GW2 or MoP.

I rarely agree totally on the poster here, but you  summoned up mine and probably others peoples feelings very well.

After TOR, i just feel...done with Star Wars...and its downright sad.

this was already posted:

http://beta.xfire.com/games/swtor but it has little significance when not compared to this:

http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2

no comment. I really wonder how people don't understand SWTOR is dead.

 

4500h played compared to 81.000 of GW2

Originally posted by Rockhide

For me TOR represented the last big thing to let me keep living Star Wars (I had hoped until yet another, better Star Wars MMO replaced it).  I've been a fan for nearly three decades.  I'm not a fanboy.  I don't defend the direction of the EU or try to explain away the awfulness of the prequels.  I loathe canon arguments.   But God help me I like the setting.  I've played several Star Wars games, read numerous Star Wars books, and have a small action figure collection.  I used to play or read or watch something to do with Star Wars every month or two throughout my entire life.

 

Since TOR, I have lost interest.  These last six months are the longest I've gone in probably my entire life not immersing myself in anything Star Wars (except for this forum), and I don't feel any great urge to change that.

 

It's not just that I feel TOR undermined parts of the underlying story and setting that I liked; I think for me it was the end of the line in terms of Star Wars things I was looking forward to.  Yes, there will be new Star Wars games that will be played and beaten and set aside in a week, but part of being a Star Wars fan has always been about the speculation, anticipation, and the hype, however faint.  Wherever TOR was going to take the greater Star Wars story, I now find I couldn't be arsed to care.  There will probably be another epic galaxy-spanning Star Wars adventure tha has the potential to captivate me down the road, but it's so far away right now that I can't even muster the will to think about what it might be like.  In all those respects TOR's failure to deliver -- for me -- has "killed" Star Wars.

 

There might not be many like me, but I'm guessing I'm not alone.

 

 

I feel like you do.

Originally posted by hikaru77

No. People on swtor.com forums is talking about ¨the fail of GW2 launch¨, the population drop on the servers, is not really there. Most of the people playing GW2 atm, talking about the swtor.com playerbase, still have their swtor subs. In the long term, and in the case of GW2 is 1 month or less, people will get bored and come back to their old MMOs. 

Of course TORs servers didnt dropped, that happened already months ago and only the real fans are left.

As for GW2 players returning to TOR that sounds like wishful thinking. I know plenty of ex TOR players that play GW2 but they were already done with the game long before GW2s launch.

I do think that half of the GW2 players will move back to their old games after a while because the hype did pull in plenty of people who raid but I also think it will pull in that many players from other games.

If TOR want to survive they need to add more social content and generally make the game more MMOish. TOR fans shouldnt be worried about GW2, they should be worried that EA might close down the game instead of fixing it up just like they did to Sims online.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by hikaru77

No. People on swtor.com forums is talking about ¨the fail of GW2 launch¨, the population drop on the servers, is not really there. Most of the people playing GW2 atm, talking about the swtor.com playerbase, still have their swtor subs. In the long term, and in the case of GW2 is 1 month or less, people will get bored and come back to their old MMOs. 

Of course TORs servers didnt dropped, that happened already months ago and only the real fans are left.

As for GW2 players returning to TOR that sounds like wishful thinking. I know plenty of ex TOR players that play GW2 but they were already done with the game long before GW2s launch.

I do think that half of the GW2 players will move back to their old games after a while because the hype did pull in plenty of people who raid but I also think it will pull in that many players from other games.

If TOR want to survive they need to add more social content and generally make the game more MMOish. TOR fans shouldnt be worried about GW2, they should be worried that EA might close down the game instead of fixing it up just like they did to Sims online.

Of course they did.  It's fact, SWTOR population drops daily.

US:http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats

EU: http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/stats

 

Agree they should be worried.  But it's not players fault, it's EA's for not adding substantially new content or breaking the mold (or even listening to SW fans).  They can't fix the engine becuase they already fubared it and are no longer supported by Hero.  Graphics/Game engine = foundation for a game, IMO.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by hikaru77

No. People on swtor.com forums is talking about ¨the fail of GW2 launch¨, the population drop on the servers, is not really there. Most of the people playing GW2 atm, talking about the swtor.com playerbase, still have their swtor subs. In the long term, and in the case of GW2 is 1 month or less, people will get bored and come back to their old MMOs. 

Of course TORs servers didnt dropped, that happened already months ago and only the real fans are left.

As for GW2 players returning to TOR that sounds like wishful thinking. I know plenty of ex TOR players that play GW2 but they were already done with the game long before GW2s launch.

I do think that half of the GW2 players will move back to their old games after a while because the hype did pull in plenty of people who raid but I also think it will pull in that many players from other games.

If TOR want to survive they need to add more social content and generally make the game more MMOish. TOR fans shouldnt be worried about GW2, they should be worried that EA might close down the game instead of fixing it up just like they did to Sims online.

To be truthful, Tor's servers are being hit by GW2 pretty hard. All the usual places support this. (xfire, tor-staus).

As for the forums. They are close to dead, very, very slow. Of those who post there, the die-hard fans are in the majority seemingly.

There are more threads and posts bemoanng haters and complainers then there are complainers by a wide margin.

As for any counter moves by Bioware in regard to GW2, their strategy seems to remain silent, weather the storm, and hope for the best.

Originally posted by Karteli

Of course they did.  It's fact, SWTOR population drops daily.

US:http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/stats

EU: http://www.torstatus.net/shards/eu/stats

Agree they should be worried.  But it's not players fault, it's EA's for not adding substantially new content or breaking the mold (or even listening to SW fans).  They can't fix the engine becuase they already fubared it and are no longer supported by Hero.  Graphics/Game engine = foundation for a game, IMO.

I didnt count the continues bleeding that have been going on since a week after launch since you cant blame GW2 on that. But OK, I have to admit that I thought that ended a month ago or so (my still TOR playing friend are insisting so).

But if anything is dropping TOR subs right now it is EAs F2P announcement a little while back.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by hikaru77

No. People on swtor.com forums is talking about ¨the fail of GW2 launch¨, the population drop on the servers, is not really there. Most of the people playing GW2 atm, talking about the swtor.com playerbase, still have their swtor subs. In the long term, and in the case of GW2 is 1 month or less, people will get bored and come back to their old MMOs. 

Of course TORs servers didnt dropped, that happened already months ago and only the real fans are left.

As for GW2 players returning to TOR that sounds like wishful thinking. I know plenty of ex TOR players that play GW2 but they were already done with the game long before GW2s launch.

I do think that half of the GW2 players will move back to their old games after a while because the hype did pull in plenty of people who raid but I also think it will pull in that many players from other games.

If TOR want to survive they need to add more social content and generally make the game more MMOish. TOR fans shouldnt be worried about GW2, they should be worried that EA might close down the game instead of fixing it up just like they did to Sims online.

To be truthful, Tor's servers are being hit by GW2 pretty hard. All the usual places support this. (xfire, tor-staus).

As for the forums. They are close to dead, very, very slow. Of those who post there, the die-hard fans are in the majority seemingly.

There are more threads and posts bemoanng haters and complainers then there are complainers by a wide margin.

As for any counter moves by Bioware in regard to GW2, their strategy seems to remain silent, weather the storm, and hope for the best.

 

In retrospect, that was their plan all along .. just ride the waves and try to keep everyone happy with what they were given..

 

It's kind of funny actually, because when they don't talk, fans go nuts and start chattering away .. then when EA Bioware does say something vague, fans ponder then go back to chattering with grand speculations.  Delivered material is critized, then tucked under the rug for a new round of astroturfers to talk about the "next" thing.  Geez if you take a step back, this game offered very little in the past 8 months - but the hype amongst fans is over 9000 ... unless you consider that that people promoting the game are shills.  It's not just some rumor:

 

EA Viral Marketing Exposed, Big Buyout On The Horizon?

published: 2012-03-27 21:15:06

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/EA-Viral-Marketing-Exposed-Big-Buyout-Horizon-40885.html

 

BTW TF25, thanks for the astroturfer info on Andryah, I still am enjoying reading her daily posts. :-)

 

disclaimer:

(Andryah is either a shill for EA or a really good troll)

I'm glad you get a kick out of her K.

 

Anyway, BW has said something about new content. I guess that could be viewed as a response to GW2.

They will have a new tier gear operation called Terror from Beyond in Patch realese 1.4.

They don't specify when Patch 1.4 will be coming out though.

I guess when if it hits the PTS it would be a week or two after that.

It would be a nice gesture to their subscribers to release something before FTP.

One would think a 1.4 Patch wouldn't be monetized for subscribers and since FTP players can't do operations, it wouldn't be removing potential revenue streams from their soon to be cash shop.

We shall see.

Seeing how they've been teasing this new Operation since June 4th, release it already while you still have some subscribers.

I should point out that Makeb was teased at the same time in June, but I suspect that will be released after FTP, and will be sold as a mini-expansion to both FTP players and subscribers.

Remember all you SWTOR fans who have been saying that FTP is good for the game. This content dribbiling out (and some being repackaged and sold to you) has been in the works for a long time and has been intentionally withheld from the game after EA decided to turn the game FTP in April.

Ask yourself if you think things would be better with a larger staff putting out content in regular intervals, or laying off staff, meting out niblet sized content every 5 months is better for the game?

Of course you could take a view that the question is moot if you believe that Tor's fiscal underperformance necessitated the conversion to FTP.

It's probably moot.  SWTOR's big chance to thrive was when the game launched, and it suffered multiple months of bug fixes to get the game working for players, but by then the players were gone.

 

Stuff kept breaking as they went along .. for instance I had the CE and after a few weeks, the music droid broke and wouldn't play music anymore .. then weeks later the holodancer broke and wouldn't dance (she just followed you around instead).  Of course these were minor things compared to the raid bugs and other disconnects / crashes people experienced , all thanks to bug fixes.

 

I'll continue my interest to see how this game goes, but I'm kind of believing the rumors that the people that knew all about the modified Hero engine and SWTOR gameplay code either quit long ago (to save their careers) or were fired, as a result of an underwhelming game (which wasn't a good idea either if they were the go-to people).