Originally posted by ThemePork

Originally posted by jpnz

Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.

That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.

So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

You seem very sure of yourself there buddy but if it's the sub that scared people away how do you explain they started playing the game in the first place? Everyone knew about the sub, it wasn't mysteriously dropped on the players once they'd already started playing.

As always I can only speak for myself (something you might consider doing too) but the sub was definitely not the reason I left, not even close.

 

 

Exactly! And you are not alone whatsoever...

Originally posted by AwDiddums

Originally posted by skamper

Well cool. They're turning the dial to free to play, but who cares? I think a lot of people are looking past the fact that even though it is going free, they still have not really addressed the reason why people left in the first place. I sincerely believe that if they just addressed the reasons, and invited the early adopters back, they would be much more successful. But instead they are practically keeping the same formula, design and content.

 

I really have not seen anything like "well patch SWTOR 2.0 Free to Play model is going to have this list of changes". Nothing. It sadly seems like they're just going to extend the life of the game enough to get what money they can before finally turning out the lights.

 

I hate to bring WoW into this but the reason their  numbers declined is because they failed to retain the customers they had, while they focused on bringing new ones in. If SWTOR goes the same route, and does not improve the content, then highly doubt this massive budget project can sustain itself. Sure you will have the curious people, and the kids who can't afford the monthly fee, but the money is in the people who bought the game and decided it was not fun.

 

We want to like this game again BioWare.

You gotta love a post like this, the Op alludes to some main reason ppl left the game yet read through the post and you don't see them tell us what that reason was.

I'd love to be enlightened as to the main reason why so many left OP.

"the money is in the people who bought the game and decided it was not fun."  Think that about says it all doesn't it?

 

The reasons for it not being fun compared to other games is all over other threads.  Listing them might not matter anyways, since people have been talking about anti-fun issues for awhile now, even down to the game engine and lacking interface.  Even with all those complaints EA Bioware ignored their customers and went forward with a altoholic legacy system and more instanced PVE / PVP zones.  More single player space missions coming this fall too!  Horray?

Im not sure about everybody else as to why they left. I left becouse i beat thier MMo. I did all the content for my character. All I had left was run the same dalies and instances over and over or do pvp instances over and over. That took me less then a month.

If a MMo company wants me to pay $15 I need months worth on content. 

I dont mind paying $15 a month to play a game that can keep me playing for months or years. I did it with the older mmos all the time. The newer generation of mmos I dont see any content to keep me playing more then a month.

I would love for MMo's to go back and look at the older gen MMo's and start making games that has content that will keep players playing and paying for your game longer.

But that will not happen becouse big publishers want cookie cutter MMos. They want them made fast so they can get thier BIG PAYOUT and then throw the game and fans of the game out with the trash.

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Originally posted by KyngBills

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Originally posted by ThemePork

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Originally posted by jpnz Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'. That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion. So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

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You seem very sure of yourself there buddy but if it's the sub that scared people away how do you explain they started playing the game in the first place? Everyone knew about the sub, it wasn't mysteriously dropped on the players once they'd already started playing. As always I can only speak for myself (something you might consider doing too) but the sub was definitely not the reason I left, not even close.    

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Exactly! And you are not alone whatsoever...

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EA is responding to what customers told them. 40% of the people who took the exit poll answered with "Subscription" as the reason they didn't want to play any longer. That means somewhere in the neighborhood of 480,000 people said they weren't playing the game any longer because of the subscription fee. If only half the people took the exit interview, that's still 240,000 people. The entire population of people who actually post on this forum could say they didn't want to play because of anything else and it wouldn't matter.

Responding with taking away the subscription fee makes perfect sense with the information they've been given by the people who were playing the game.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by KyngBills

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Originally posted by ThemePork

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Originally posted by jpnz Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'. That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion. So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

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You seem very sure of yourself there buddy but if it's the sub that scared people away how do you explain they started playing the game in the first place? Everyone knew about the sub, it wasn't mysteriously dropped on the players once they'd already started playing. As always I can only speak for myself (something you might consider doing too) but the sub was definitely not the reason I left, not even close.    

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Exactly! And you are not alone whatsoever...

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EA is responding to what customers told them. 40% of the people who took the exit poll answered with "Subscription" as the reason they didn't want to play any longer. That means somewhere in the neighborhood of 480,000 people said they weren't playing the game any longer because of the subscription fee. If only half the people took the exit interview, that's still 240,000 people. The entire population of people who actually post on this forum could say they didn't want to play because of anything else and it wouldn't matter.

Responding with taking away the subscription fee makes perfect sense with the information they've been given by the people who were playing the game.

 

 

Sorry...But I'm truthfully amazed you believe this to be fact...I really am amazed anyone could believe this poor atttempt at spin and propaganda...No offense really...But it makes me wonder if you ever really played the Game with anyone else...

Originally posted by Cromica

I left because Ilum was crap, the stories were not very good, crafting was totally pointless, and really just over all the game was exactly the samething that has been done for years and years.

 

Unless they totally redesign the entire game I see no reason to ever install it again.

stories are not good ? omg

I don't believe EA are fixing the reason that most people have left. The development team has been reduced - there will be some new stuff that was started last yesr but - fundamentally - I don't believe they can.

Consider Skyrim. Great game, vast world, purchased by millions upon millions. Do you still play?

No - why not?  Has it failed? What s being done to fix it?

What do you mean it is a single player game .....

 

Going forward work will be aimed at introducing ways of getting free-to-play people, those who stick around, to spend money. And EA when talking about f2p are aiming to get as much money from f2p as they do from subs. (Source: when asked in the comference call whether f2p revenue would be an upside to the expected earnings EA said no - so it was built in - and that they were targetting a 50/50 split between sub and f2p revenue).

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by KyngBills

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Originally posted by ThemePork

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Originally posted by jpnz Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'. That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion. So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

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You seem very sure of yourself there buddy but if it's the sub that scared people away how do you explain they started playing the game in the first place? Everyone knew about the sub, it wasn't mysteriously dropped on the players once they'd already started playing. As always I can only speak for myself (something you might consider doing too) but the sub was definitely not the reason I left, not even close.    

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Exactly! And you are not alone whatsoever...

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EA is responding to what customers told them. 40% of the people who took the exit poll answered with "Subscription" as the reason they didn't want to play any longer. That means somewhere in the neighborhood of 480,000 people said they weren't playing the game any longer because of the subscription fee. If only half the people took the exit interview, that's still 240,000 people. The entire population of people who actually post on this forum could say they didn't want to play because of anything else and it wouldn't matter.

Responding with taking away the subscription fee makes perfect sense with the information they've been given by the people who were playing the game.

 

And yet knackered old Wow still has 9.something subscription paying customers. Even if half of that is differently done asian subs, that is still a crazy number of subscriptions.

Customers giving the subscription answer on the exit poll do not necessarily mean said cusomters HATE subscription fees. It could also mean (and this is the reason all of my friends quit playing) that the SWTOR features that are there to justify a monthly sub fee are just not good enough to warrant one.

Its not that they suck in my opinion, just that other much longer established games, that most of these people have sank quite a lot of time and money into, do these things better. So once the new cool stuff like the character stories ran out, those people just went back to their go to game. Going FTP will definatley get new blood into the game but unless Bioware makes some improvements I'm doubtful many will stay very long once they burn through the story lines as well.

Originally posted by jpnz

Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.

That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.

So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

Many people left because the game wasn't *worth* a $15 sub fee, but for that same reason, the game isn't really worth playing at all in my opinion.  For me, a game has to be fun, period.  I'll pay $30 per month for a game I am really enjoying.  Hell there was a time in Star Wars Galaxies that I had three paid accounts for $45 per month.  I didn't bat an eye because I loved the game.

Even if SWTOR is free, it will still bore the bejeezus out of a lot of people.  It's a lifeless, linear and lonely game that many of us saw coming LONG before the official launch.  Once you get past the Star Wars jizz, there's nothing to keep you coming back.  Frankly, that's the way most Themepark games are now, but SWTOR is the biggest/worst example.

Honestly, had they actually made 'SWG 2' (or a hybrid of the two), they would likely have a killer and dedicated player base.  I think it's funny that they scoffed at the very notion.  Now where do they find themselves?

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by KyngBills

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Originally posted by ThemePork

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Originally posted by jpnz Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'. That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion. So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

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You seem very sure of yourself there buddy but if it's the sub that scared people away how do you explain they started playing the game in the first place? Everyone knew about the sub, it wasn't mysteriously dropped on the players once they'd already started playing. As always I can only speak for myself (something you might consider doing too) but the sub was definitely not the reason I left, not even close.    

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Exactly! And you are not alone whatsoever...

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EA is responding to what customers told them. 40% of the people who took the exit poll answered with "Subscription" as the reason they didn't want to play any longer. That means somewhere in the neighborhood of 480,000 people said they weren't playing the game any longer because of the subscription fee. If only half the people took the exit interview, that's still 240,000 people. The entire population of people who actually post on this forum could say they didn't want to play because of anything else and it wouldn't matter.

Responding with taking away the subscription fee makes perfect sense with the information they've been given by the people who were playing the game.

 

And yet knackered old Wow still has 9.something subscription paying customers. Even if half of that is differently done asian subs, that is still a crazy number of subscriptions.

Customers giving the subscription answer on the exit poll do not necessarily mean said customters HATE subscription fees. It could also mean (and this is the reason all of my friends quit playing) that the SWTOR features that are there to justify a monthly sub fee are just not good enough to warrant one.

Its not that they suck in my opinion, just that other much longer established games, that most of these people have sank quite a lot of time and money into, do these things better. So once the new cool stuff like the character stories ran out, those people just went back to their go to game. Going FTP will definatley get new blood into the game but unless Bioware makes some improvements I'm doubtful many will stay very long once they burn through the story lines as well.

 

Bingo! We have a winner!!! 

The game my Guild went back to is LOTRO...And just to show how little we care about Sub Fee's most of us carried our LOTRO Subs even when we were playing SWTOR...Sub fees? $15 bucks a month? Basically 50 cents a day? Who cares? If the game is worthwhile I'd pay double that...

Originally posted by jpnz

Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.

That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.

So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

Not following the logic ... 95% of my guild left SWTOR and not one of them complaind about the $15/month sub fee. Most of us all came over from SWG and had multiple accounts there. I myself had 3 accounts in SWG I was paying for. And currently I'm paying for 1 Rift account and 1 TSW account. If the game is worth playing the sub fee doesn't even come into play usually. TOR has many problems, but the bottom line is no matter how they try and pretty it up a turd is still a turd.

They cannot fix those problems unless they would invest another millions of dollars, spent 2 + years with big team, change core concepts & game engine.

Not much short of making new game from ground up.

 

So no - they are not fixing, because they can't.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Zylaxx

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Originally posted by jpnz Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'. That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion. So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

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As much as I dont like subscriptions the $15 sub  fee is hardly the reason people left.  I cant attest to why most left but if I was to hazzard a guess it would be to a lack of content.

 

 

I left because the game was bland, boring, uninspiring and was lacking features that even most F2P MMO's release with.  Plus it takes Bioware like 6 months to even implement and develop content.  The lack of content to to do at endgame was just icing on the cake.

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EA has exit interviews for people who ended their subscriptions. Unless people just out and out lied*, then 40% of the people who left would have continued playing if there was no sub fee or if the game was F2P. It's kind of a no brainer though...will more people play a free game or a box price + subscription game?

What EA is banking on is that a lot of people will try the game with no barrier to entry. That's what they need. They're not going to get a long term commitment from people with the subscription...people will want to get their money's worth as quickly as possible and move on. EA needs a lot of people to try the game out, so they can find enough of the people who will like the game and will pay money for the extras.

* EA could have lied too. I don't think they did.

 

I guess you missed the part of the call where Goldman Sachs basically called EA out for misleading investors and EAs response was to hang up on Goldman Sachs.

They aren't lying, but they sure as hell aren't being forthcoming either. Last quarter they felt they could give the number of subsribers, this quarter they give a range of between 500k and 1M (which most know it is closer to 500k otherwise they would have used a higher number that it was above).

On the subject of the OP, most haven't left over the sub fee, they have left because it is not a good MMO. The sub fee just prevents them from coming back (which most didn't even on the free access weekends).

This is EAs last ditch effort to try and recuperate some of their investment. SWTOR is done, and F2P is not going to save it. Too much is wrong with its core, lead designers at BioWare are to egotistic, arrogant, incompetent or all three, and content comes out at a snail's pace for a company that had one of the largest development teams in the business at the beginning of the year.

If they could look at that 40%, believe that it was really the 15 dollars that was the problem, and knock that down to F2P just because of that survey (in a vacuum) they would have to be pretty dumb.

In the midst of the massive sub decline to suddenly think it was the 15 bucks all along makes no sense.

 

They know the game is substandard and they can't fix it.

Once you play or in many cases, skip the stories, there is no real reason to keep playing.

I enjoyed the stories and got 6 months out of them, but they have no way of adding content at the rate players need it. The dungeons and pvp minigames are measured against games with 7 years of content as opposed to 7 months.

The wall of crazy they talked about, the 500 planets and world pvp is all over now, when 2 million active players left so did the foundation to add content. I wish it would have worked out, I'm not one of the bystanders who spout hate just because they cant or dont play these games in the first place.

I try my best to support as many titles as I can, I am gainfully employed and really enjoy the mmorpgs, but It's  got to become obvious to developers that you cant have an ending or it will do just that, end.