- They can't change the combat system, which is one main reason I left. It's bland and boring.

- I wish they'd give an option to skip all the dialogue outside of main story quests and cut it down to just a description, or just have all the text there at one time and let me read. Most of the quests are mindless kill or fetch quests anyway - they really didn't need voice work for this crap and it's annoying rounding up quests and having to go into a cutscene for each damn one. Waste of time and money on this entire portion of the game that could have been better spent improving the rest of it. 

-- Questing in general is boring and the story bits aren't exactly helping that. 

- Most classes have incredibly boring storyline's where I have no major desire to see how it turns out, and thus, am unable to keep myself interested in playing. This is also something they can't fix since it's very heavily opinion and quite a few people have claimed to enjoy the story of each class. So meh.

- Battlegrounds and PvP in general is just boring after a few runs. Nothing overly exciting or special to be had here currently. 

- Crafting is decent, but was ultimately not overly useful unless you went with a couple of the ones like Biochem and whatever. Did they improve on this yet?

- I've only played a few of the dungeons, but it seemed as if the quality dipped after the first (Esseles or Black Talon). Even if the quality gets better, they weren't exactly a motivating factor early on. 

- Heroic Areas were fun. 

Etc., etc.

That's enough for now. So, in the end, it's not possible for me to enjoy the game as it is, as it is broken from the ground up in my eyes. Certainly not something removing the subscription fee is going to solve, and I have a feeling it won't have many of the vets returning, but moreso just bringing in replacements who never bought the game due to the sub to begin with.

Originally posted by rwyan

I don't know why people give SWtOR such a hard time.  Its not a bad game (sure there were some missteps made by Bioware).  For the most part, the game is solid.  I enjoyed my stay there very much... I just got bored, hence why I left.  This is going to happen when you're relying purely on scripted stories.

 

I recently jumped into to Rift and for me, its like night and day.  The game has opened up so much in regards of things to do.  Its become much more than a linear quest-grinder with a raiding end-game (which is what SWtOR is).  SWtOR needs more opportunities for emergent play (sandboxy experiences) and thats it really.  Allow players to continue the "story" outside the "scripted story".  Raids, instances, battlegrounds will only hold a player's interest for so long. 

 

Ironically, I do believe if SWG and SWtOR had a baby... you'd have an awesome game.

I wish a game would try this concept. A storyline to play through and quest around, but also have a lot of sandbox options. But I don't see it ever happening in my lifetime.

Sorry, carry on with the bashing. Just wanted to point out this post and say I agree.

Originally posted by Jounar

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by MidBoss

No, what is likely going on here is people wrote "This game is not worth a monthly payment".

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Along the same argument you used just paragraph above: Those did no have to buy the game in the first place?

 

Yes, SWTOR's failure is really all the customers fault

This has CONSISTENTLY been BioWare's message back to the customers/subscribers. We (the subscribers/customers) bitched about how they seemed to release patches with no QA or testing. Their response was that there didn't seem to be a lot of people testing on the PTR. To which WE pointed out there wasn't, never had been, and seemingly never would be a way to copy our characters over from live to PTR to test with. They LITERALLY were baffled why we wanted this. They thought we'd actually enjoy their game SO much, we'd separately level characters on their test server.

To me, the REAL warning bells started ringing when it became VERY, VERY apparent a LOT of the devs didn't even play the game. I don't remember WHO it was, but ONE of their leads developers was mentioning a /roll system at the guild summit thing they had about a month after release. He thought it was ALREADY in the game and was shocked to be told it wasn't. Another example was Georg Zoeller (may he die of virulent ass cancer) posting a comment about the community outrage to changing healing kits to one use per combat. I'm paraphrasing, but his response was "what kind of huttball matches are you guys playing where you never leave combat? The ball resets within 2 seconds after scoring?".

That post alone was CLEAR indication he had never actually played a huttball match.

Originally posted by cahenderson

Originally posted by Jounar

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by MidBoss

No, what is likely going on here is people wrote "This game is not worth a monthly payment".

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Along the same argument you used just paragraph above: Those did no have to buy the game in the first place?

 

Yes, SWTOR's failure is really all the customers fault

This has CONSISTENTLY been BioWare's message back to the customers/subscribers. We (the subscribers/customers) bitched about how they seemed to release patches with no QA or testing. Their response was that there didn't seem to be a lot of people testing on the PTR. To which WE pointed out there wasn't, never had been, and seemingly never would be a way to copy our characters over from live to PTR to test with. They LITERALLY were baffled why we wanted this. They thought we'd actually enjoy their game SO much, we'd separately level characters on their test server.

To me, the REAL warning bells started ringing when it became VERY, VERY apparent a LOT of the devs didn't even play the game. I don't remember WHO it was, but ONE of their leads developers was mentioning a /roll system at the guild summit thing they had about a month after release. He thought it was ALREADY in the game and was shocked to be told it wasn't. Another example was Georg Zoeller (may he die of virulent ass cancer) posting a comment about the community outrage to changing healing kits to one use per combat. I'm paraphrasing, but his response was "what kind of huttball matches are you guys playing where you never leave combat? The ball resets within 2 seconds after scoring?".

 

That post alone was CLEAR indication he had never actually played a huttball match.

Good point. Scuttlebut is that most of the staff did not enjoy playing the game, and asked for/complained about the same things the community did before launch and were ignored. Some supposedly offered to work on features in their spare time.

Whether or not any of this is true is speculative, but if it is it lays blame on a few narrow shoulders. In my opinion the single developer that did the most damage to the game was DE. IMO he had the most pull on the games development and was the cheerleader for the lions share of mistakes made with the game.

I believe the game would have been VERY different without DE on staff.

I think my main thing with this game is they seemed to get a great idea then they kinda half a$$ed their way through it. Like they have great planets with awesome details but then they don't add night day cycles or bugs flying little reptiles maybe the a npc walking down a path acting scared every once in awhile. The crafting they did was a great idea but again it was like great idea stopped short when it actually went into game. They could have really made it an great new system but they added so many things that made it worthless and really kinda made alot of it pointless. I could carry on if I really sat and thought about it but really its not that most of it is bad its more that they seemed to stop short of making it great so playing just brings you disappointment that they didnt carry through on their ideas.

Dunno maybe just me....

Originally posted by DeaconX

I would say no – and there’s no fixing why people didn't stay with SWTOR because it stems to the initial design of the game.

I myself and about 20 people I know left didn't leave because SWTOR isn’t a decent Star Wars game… it’s because it’s not the Star Wars MMORPG we were looking for.  It is as BioWare put it, KOTOR 3-9.

A fundamental design flaw, in my opinion, was when they failed to realize that Star Wars fans don’t just want to play another (mostly) single player Star Wars adventure, they want to LIVE in the Star Wars setting.  People are so enamored with this IP they want to be a part of it.  If you can manage to blend the strong story content BioWare is known for, with enough player freedom to allow everyone to really define their own characters and roles in the galaxy, you’d have a huge winner.  Theme Park + Sandbox hybrid.

Good post.  /agree

I see in a lot of threads people claim that this is merely just a great single player game with little mmo interaction. I don't even really see it as a good single player game. The story is pretty lackluster. 80% of the quests require you to kill the same group of droids. Compared to other BioWare games this would be pretty shallow as just a single player game (KOTOR, ME, DAO, etc).

Themepark / Sandbox hybrid is going to be the future of MMOs. You have to give players power to create controversy and rivalries within their server.

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Originally posted by ignore_me

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Originally posted by DeaconX I would say no – and there’s no fixing why people didn't stay with SWTOR because it stems to the initial design of the game. I myself and about 20 people I know left didn't leave because SWTOR isn’t a decent Star Wars game… it’s because it’s not the Star Wars MMORPG we were looking for.  It is as BioWare put it, KOTOR 3-9. A fundamental design flaw, in my opinion, was when they failed to realize that Star Wars fans don’t just want to play another (mostly) single player Star Wars adventure, they want to LIVE in the Star Wars setting.  People are so enamored with this IP they want to be a part of it.  If you can manage to blend the strong story content BioWare is known for, with enough player freedom to allow everyone to really define their own characters and roles in the galaxy, you’d have a huge winner.  Theme Park + Sandbox hybrid.

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Good post.  /agree

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Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by ignore_me

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Originally posted by DeaconX I would say no – and there’s no fixing why people didn't stay with SWTOR because it stems to the initial design of the game. I myself and about 20 people I know left didn't leave because SWTOR isn’t a decent Star Wars game… it’s because it’s not the Star Wars MMORPG we were looking for.  It is as BioWare put it, KOTOR 3-9. A fundamental design flaw, in my opinion, was when they failed to realize that Star Wars fans don’t just want to play another (mostly) single player Star Wars adventure, they want to LIVE in the Star Wars setting.  People are so enamored with this IP they want to be a part of it.  If you can manage to blend the strong story content BioWare is known for, with enough player freedom to allow everyone to really define their own characters and roles in the galaxy, you’d have a huge winner.  Theme Park + Sandbox hybrid.

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Good post.  /agree

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No, I don't think so. Just in general there are fewer people who want to live in a virtual world than play a game set in a virtual world. Why would Star Wars fans be any different?

 

I appreceiate that, but what then explains the serial lack of enjoyment at endgame for games of this paradigm that are not WoW? And also Star Wars fans dress up like the characters at those conventions, there is a religion in the UK based on SW force mythology. Sure these are fringe people but the pop culture saturation of this IP for those who experienced it as a child is tremendous.

Originally posted by jpnz

Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.

That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.

So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

The main reason why people left is because of the lack of in game tools and the shear mechcanics were a direct copy of Blizzard/Activisions flagship product. The $15 fee is peanuts and if you have trouble paying that you shouldn't be playing a sub MMO.

Read the SWTOR forums much? people are still complaining over tools and content that aren't in the game.

So No, EA/BW is not fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

and going F2P won't bring'em back - GW2 will be the final nail in the coffin.

If the price was the main factor in why SWTOR failed, then we would also see World of Warcraft as vacant as LucasArt's game. But we don't see that because WoW, while it has outdated mechanics, is a solidly built, well-thought out and executed game. And currently it has 9 + million players occupying the gamespace.

SWTOR was not a solidly built, well-thought out and executed game. That is why people left it in droves. That is why it failed. In order to "fix" the game, they would need to start over with a new engine, because the one they bought and modified is horrid for an MMORPG. These are the reasons SWTOR failed.

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

If the price was the main factor in why SWTOR failed, then we would also see World of Warcraft as vacant as LucasArt's game. But we don't see that because WoW, while it has outdated mechanics, is a solidly built, well-thought out and executed game. And currently it has 9 + million players occupying the gamespace.

SWTOR was not a solidly built, well-thought out and executed game. That is why people left it in droves. That is why it failed. In order to "fix" the game, they would need to start over with a new engine, because the one they bought and modified is horrid for an MMORPG. These are the reasons SWTOR failed.

This is going with the VERY BIG assumption that the reason WoW has the numbers it has is SOLELY on the game mechanics.  Yet, time and time again people (myself included) have attributed it is more of a social/cultural phenomenum more than anything else.  People continue to play WOW because their friends do. 

Do you not agree with this or simply believe that WoW in itself vastly superior in design and quality to EVERY mmo that has launched before and after it (this includes every MMO...Eve, EQ, UO etc...)?  Because by that logic,  they are.  Hell, by that logic EVE must be one of the worst games out since it only has 200-500k subs and hasnt ever topped that.  Even worse, UO must have been one of the worst MMOs ever made.

Edit: On topic, I don't know what they are currently working on, but I do believe that minus the sub cost the game will see an influx of players.  How many exactly?  I don't know.  But most games prior that went F2P (DDO, LOTRO, APB:R) have and are doing quite well.  Actually, LOTRO is doing better than it was as a P2P model.

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Originally posted by Kakkzooka

If the price was the main factor in why SWTOR failed, then we would also see World of Warcraft as vacant as LucasArt's game.

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Because WoW use certain pricing, it must fit SWTOR too?

What kind of funny logic is that?

Originally posted by WarriorNeeds

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

If the price was the main factor in why SWTOR failed, then we would also see World of Warcraft as vacant as LucasArt's game. But we don't see that because WoW, while it has outdated mechanics, is a solidly built, well-thought out and executed game. And currently it has 9 + million players occupying the gamespace.

SWTOR was not a solidly built, well-thought out and executed game. That is why people left it in droves. That is why it failed. In order to "fix" the game, they would need to start over with a new engine, because the one they bought and modified is horrid for an MMORPG. These are the reasons SWTOR failed.

This is going with the VERY BIG assumption that the reason WoW has the numbers it has is SOLELY on the game mechanics.  Yet, time and time again people (myself included) have attributed it is more of a social/cultural phenomenum more than anything else.  People continue to play WOW because their friends do. 

Do you not agree with this or simply believe that WoW in itself vastly superior in design and quality to EVERY mmo that has launched before and after it (this includes every MMO...Eve, etc...)?  Otherwise, they are, by your logic than inferior.

 

Blizzard has artfully assimilated every concept that works well in other MMORPGs. We can even see that with Mist of Panderia, Blizzard is copying ideas from Pokemon and Guild Wars 2. So, while you're making the argument that WoW isn't superior in design or quality to EVERY MMO, the numbers point to the contrary. WoW currently is the most popular MMOrpg because it is a well made system that continues to iterate with its own ideas and the good/working ideas from other games.

That's also a double-edged sword, mind you. WoW also invented the "Dungeon Finder," a device which essentially cannibalized a core pillar of the MMORPG, exploration and socialization.

If people are playing the game, because "their friends" are, then those same people will be led like sheep to the next MMO that comes out that is better than WoW. So far, no other company has matched Blizzard's quality or content. Sure, other companies have copied components that Blizzard created and/or copied from other MMOs, but - so far - Blizzard has been most successful at doing so.

SWTOR failed because people don't enjoy playing the game. It is lacking in atmosphere, it is lacking in the ability to have large number of players in the same area (a key requisite in order to call your game "Massively Multiplayer"), it is lacking in novel design features, it is lacking in having much to do with "Star Wars," as its design seems to want to mirror WoW moreso than the Star Wars universe.

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

So, while you're making the argument that WoW isn't superior in design or quality to EVERY MMO, the numbers point to the contrary.
 

That's all I need to read.  No point in trying to have a discussion about this if you simply attribute box sales/sub sales to product quality.

The number one reason people left is cause the game is shit.

The number one reason why lots haven't tried it is either because they don't like MMOs, haven't heard of it or don't want to pay a subscription or an upfront cost.

Originally posted by jpnz

Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.

That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.

So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

Rubbish we left because the game is bantha poodoo so many faults i cant be bothered to list them . But sub was definately not one of them .

Originally posted by jpnz

Umm.. the number 1 reason people left is because of the '$15 sub fee'.

That's a fact and not 'I don't like XYZ so everyone must hate XYZ!' opinion.

So yeah, EA/BW is fixing the number 1 reason people left SWTOR.

As much as I dont like subscriptions the $15 sub  fee is hardly the reason people left.  I cant attest to why most left but if I was to hazzard a guess it would be to a lack of content.

I left because the game was bland, boring, uninspiring and was lacking features that even most F2P MMO's release with.  Plus it takes Bioware like 6 months to even implement and develop content.  The lack of content to to do at endgame was just icing on the cake.