Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Sleepyfish

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"In short, if 1.3 doesn't improve my experience, I will quit and try Secret World or Guild Wars.

Bioware, are you listening?"

the type of person you are already ruined 1 mmo.so please,stick with ruining an already years out mmo like world of warcraft instead of tromping thru another mmo and ruining it like you did with star wars the old republic

 

I was in the GW2 beta, the Charr Starting City Black Citadel is about the deminsions of a Death Star.

Sadly the Black Citadel has more areas and is more massive with more activities and areas to find, events npc acitivity than every city in SWTOR combined. If Anet had developed SWTOR instead of Bioware you really get an idea of what SWTOR could have been.

At best SWTOR will go FTP soon so another company can get a shot at making a new Star Wars mmo.

 Heck, even EQ and UO (especially EQ) had far more detailed and larger scoped cities than SWTOR does.

It used to be that MMO design focused on making a wonderful world for everyone to play together in.  But now it seems like the world takes a backseat to scripted, one-shot, content.

But isn't this just backwards?  I mean, MMO's are supposed to have longevity and be played for years on end.  Why would you ever focus on scripted, one-shot content if you have this goal in mind?

Even in WoW, the quests typically take a backseat to the gameplay and world design.  Everyone knows that the quests in WoW are not exactly great works of literary art...they just serve as a method to get you into the game, and that's really all they should do.

^^ Agree. I hope this trend ends soon. I would like to have the worlds back.

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

 Heck, even EQ and UO (especially EQ) had far more detailed and larger scoped cities than SWTOR does.

It used to be that MMO design focused on making a wonderful world for everyone to play together in.  But now it seems like the world takes a backseat to scripted, one-shot, content.

But isn't this just backwards?  I mean, MMO's are supposed to have longevity and be played for years on end.  Why would you ever focus on scripted, one-shot content if you have this goal in mind?

Even in WoW, the quests typically take a backseat to the gameplay and world design.  Everyone knows that the quests in WoW are not exactly great works of literary art...they just serve as a method to get you into the game, and that's really all they should do.

Well that's kinda problem with modern mmorpg's.

Companies altered design like that to cut on cost, partially also to put more money in instances.

Since in most mmorpg's playerbase come, start playing and leave after few weeks or few months tops.  Don't stay for like 10 months or years.

So game companies went with "no-longlivelity" open world content and put more instances instead for those players who stay subbed / playing for grinding PvE instances or Arena / Battleground PvP instances.

What that 'no-longlivelity' design did though it just made problem even worse.

Most players started to get bored even faster, which was to be expected. (I wonder if game companies expected this or they wished that more people will get hooked up on instances / raiding maybe?)

Additionaly there is real fast-spawn of lobby online instance games with matchmaking like big amount of MOBA's incoming and growing number of lobby co-op PvE grinders (C9, Vindisctus, DDO and many others).

+ matchmaking games like World of Tanks, upcoming MechWarrior Online, World of Planes / Warplanes, Panzar, Warface, etc

AND

there seem to be growing number of FPS online games, sometimes with mmo elements like Dust 514.

So where that leave current dominating mmorpg design that is based on "one-time", simple, no-longlivelity, no virtual world content in open world and gameplay based on instances, same instances based co-op content that is and WILL be provvided by growing number of more varied lobby games?

It will totally destroy it. 

If there will be no drastic changes then people will leave mmorpg's in droves.

Well many people WILL leave anyway, since sizeable part of current mmorpg's playerbase are players that are most interested in instanced gameplay.

But when that playerbase will bleed and there will be no games with design attractive for those people that want to play 'longterm' virtual worlds ?

 - Greatly decreased playerbase of people that like co-op isntanced PvP and PvE

- Greatly decreased playerbase of people that play mmorpg's for unique virtual worlds experience =

as I see more and more of my friends that played at least partially cause of that - not playing mmorpg's or playing them very rarely for short amount of time cause they get bored quickly - because there is no games in mmorpg' genre made for them (not counting indie games since most of them just want their game to work and not being in alfa / beta state for years - they do work and don't want to cope with gazzilions of bugs and no-promised features implemented).

Mmorpg genre is up to HUGE challange in next 2-5 years.

It will SURELY get smaller - in west, since globally it may even get bigger since there is growing numbers of people with computer access espeically in Asia, but also in Africa, Middle East and South America.

Still more regions more game companies = more competition and most western mmorpg's will suffer.

If there won't be more risks taken in mmorpg's design then western mmorpg genre / market will get hit much harder that is has to get hit. (it will anyway).

Originally posted by alexmino

Sort of ridiculous to say the company who is putting out a new ending to a game because people complaigned so much aren't listening.

But saying they aren't reading a post on the mmorpg.com forums is legit.

  Realy? Rather funny how misinformation gets stated as fact. Bioware is not putting out any new endings to ME3. The extended cut is just that. they are keeping the same crapppy green, blue, red endings and adding a bit more dialogue/scences for closure. Bioware has stated they are not changing the Me3 endings, (they are still the same result in red, green, and blue no matter what you do/choose) nore as you state are they making any new endings.

They broke class balance in 1.2. If they do any more "balancing" and it appears that they are, I can see no reason that I would ever return to this game. Sins/shadows are getting nerfed, which they may need a slight adjustment, but marauders/sents are untouched. They're breaking the IF spec for BH and Vanguard meaning that you now only have pure spec options, which is boring, and I didn't even read the rest of it, so much bad. But what can you expect.........bad dev is bad.........

---

Originally posted by moxifloxacin
I just renewed my subscription. I can tell you it was a tough decision. I was tired of LFG and playing alone isn't exactly the reason I play MMORPG. Many quests are made so that you can't solo. When your lvl is high enough to solo, you probably won't receive any xp. Currently I have a lvl 50 and many of my missions are gray out. I have lost interested in completing those missions. The rewards of those missions are abysmal. (Those gears make me laugh.) I don't understand we have to "roll" for those FP weapons.In short, if 1.3 doesn't improve my experience, I will quit and try Secret World or Guild Wars.Bioware, are you listening?

---

idk what game you were playing but there were a fair amount of group quests that were easy to solo.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Originally posted by SumterSide

Funny how people think group finder will save SWTOR when group finder was the thing that is killing WoW.

People are bored of sitting on a space station for 5 hours. What's Biowares solution? Make them sit on station some more.

I'm confused. How does adding an lfg tool that can be used from any planet force people to sit on the station more?

In my imagination right now, I envision myself being lfg while continuing my solo game. I can do both now!

The station is the quest hub. If you are LFG and get picked up, you will need to be able to do something quickly. It can take a while to get back there if your pass is not up, so it would be better for the PuG you join if you are close at hand.

I take it when you join a group using the LFG tool, it doesn't spawn you at the dungeon entrance and when you're done it doesn't spawn you back where you started?

1.3 means that another few thousand players will quit

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by moxifloxacin

I just renewed my subscription. I can tell you it was a tough decision. I was tired of LFG and playing alone isn't exactly the reason I play MMORPG. Many quests are made so that you can't solo. When your lvl is high enough to solo, you probably won't receive any xp. Currently I have a lvl 50 and many of my missions are gray out. I have lost interested in completing those missions. The rewards of those missions are abysmal. (Those gears make me laugh.) I don't understand we have to "roll" for those FP weapons.
In short, if 1.3 doesn't improve my experience, I will quit and try Secret World or Guild Wars.
Bioware, are you listening?

 

 And even the stories are well done and  based on a comprehensive, well-constructed back-ground lore that makes SWTOR look like a joke.   Here's a picture comparing a certain infamous (and typical) third-rate BioWare writer with one of the GW2 writers and the qualifications they possess:   http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3237/prxi4.png

 

 

Let's put it this way, this one woman is more successful as an author than the entire BioWare staff has ever been.

Two words for you mr fanboy.. Darth Bane.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Originally posted by SumterSide

Funny how people think group finder will save SWTOR when group finder was the thing that is killing WoW.

People are bored of sitting on a space station for 5 hours. What's Biowares solution? Make them sit on station some more.

I'm confused. How does adding an lfg tool that can be used from any planet force people to sit on the station more?

In my imagination right now, I envision myself being lfg while continuing my solo game. I can do both now!

The station is the quest hub. If you are LFG and get picked up, you will need to be able to do something quickly. It can take a while to get back there if your pass is not up, so it would be better for the PuG you join if you are close at hand.

Actually you are one hundred percent wrong on this one if you que for a flashpoint you are offered once matched immediate transport to the start of the instance I thinkk the only time you don't get qt is when queing for heroic quests on the worlds.

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Originally posted by SumterSide

Funny how people think group finder will save SWTOR when group finder was the thing that is killing WoW.

People are bored of sitting on a space station for 5 hours. What's Biowares solution? Make them sit on station some more.

I'm confused. How does adding an lfg tool that can be used from any planet force people to sit on the station more?

In my imagination right now, I envision myself being lfg while continuing my solo game. I can do both now!

The station is the quest hub. If you are LFG and get picked up, you will need to be able to do something quickly. It can take a while to get back there if your pass is not up, so it would be better for the PuG you join if you are close at hand.

Actually you are one hundred percent wrong on this one if you que for a flashpoint you are offered once matched immediate transport to the start of the instance I thinkk the only time you don't get qt is when queing for heroic quests on the worlds.

I was 100% unaware of this. I didn't mess with it on PTS so I didn't know about the port. So is the fleet empty now?

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Originally posted by SumterSide

Funny how people think group finder will save SWTOR when group finder was the thing that is killing WoW.

People are bored of sitting on a space station for 5 hours. What's Biowares solution? Make them sit on station some more.

I'm confused. How does adding an lfg tool that can be used from any planet force people to sit on the station more?

In my imagination right now, I envision myself being lfg while continuing my solo game. I can do both now!

The station is the quest hub. If you are LFG and get picked up, you will need to be able to do something quickly. It can take a while to get back there if your pass is not up, so it would be better for the PuG you join if you are close at hand.

Actually you are one hundred percent wrong on this one if you que for a flashpoint you are offered once matched immediate transport to the start of the instance I thinkk the only time you don't get qt is when queing for heroic quests on the worlds.

I was 100% unaware of this. I didn't mess with it on PTS so I didn't know about the port. So is the fleet empty now?

Not at all since mergers I've not seen less than one hundred on fleet usually atleast around 150

Originally posted by moxifloxacin

I just renewed my subscription. I can tell you it was a tough decision. I was tired of LFG and playing alone isn't exactly the reason I play MMORPG. Many quests are made so that you can't solo. When your lvl is high enough to solo, you probably won't receive any xp. Currently I have a lvl 50 and many of my missions are gray out. I have lost interested in completing those missions. The rewards of those missions are abysmal. (Those gears make me laugh.) I don't understand we have to "roll" for those FP weapons.
In short, if 1.3 doesn't improve my experience, I will quit and try Secret World or Guild Wars.
Bioware, are you listening?

1.3 does nothing good for what your looking for imo.

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Originally posted by SumterSide

Funny how people think group finder will save SWTOR when group finder was the thing that is killing WoW.

People are bored of sitting on a space station for 5 hours. What's Biowares solution? Make them sit on station some more.

I'm confused. How does adding an lfg tool that can be used from any planet force people to sit on the station more?

In my imagination right now, I envision myself being lfg while continuing my solo game. I can do both now!

The station is the quest hub. If you are LFG and get picked up, you will need to be able to do something quickly. It can take a while to get back there if your pass is not up, so it would be better for the PuG you join if you are close at hand.

Actually you are one hundred percent wrong on this one if you que for a flashpoint you are offered once matched immediate transport to the start of the instance I thinkk the only time you don't get qt is when queing for heroic quests on the worlds.

I was 100% unaware of this. I didn't mess with it on PTS so I didn't know about the port. So is the fleet empty now?

Not at all since mergers I've not seen less than one hundred on fleet usually atleast around 150

Give it a month or two. At the start of May the most populated server had 300+ on the fleet, by the start of June it had ~100.

1.3 doesn't bring a whole lot to the table, at best it may lessen the flow of people leaving but i doubt it's enough to stop it.

Originally posted by Kabaal

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Zuvielify

Originally posted by SumterSide

Funny how people think group finder will save SWTOR when group finder was the thing that is killing WoW.

People are bored of sitting on a space station for 5 hours. What's Biowares solution? Make them sit on station some more.

I'm confused. How does adding an lfg tool that can be used from any planet force people to sit on the station more?

In my imagination right now, I envision myself being lfg while continuing my solo game. I can do both now!

The station is the quest hub. If you are LFG and get picked up, you will need to be able to do something quickly. It can take a while to get back there if your pass is not up, so it would be better for the PuG you join if you are close at hand.

Actually you are one hundred percent wrong on this one if you que for a flashpoint you are offered once matched immediate transport to the start of the instance I thinkk the only time you don't get qt is when queing for heroic quests on the worlds.

I was 100% unaware of this. I didn't mess with it on PTS so I didn't know about the port. So is the fleet empty now?

Not at all since mergers I've not seen less than one hundred on fleet usually atleast around 150

Give it a month or two. At the start of May the most populated server had 300+ on the fleet, by the start of June it had ~100.

1.3 doesn't bring a whole lot to the table, at best it may lessen the flow of people leaving but i doubt it's enough to stop it.

 I'm not overly concerned about your doubts I play the game because for me it's fun and was even when I wasn't seeing a hundred people on fleet sure it was more difficult to tackle flashpoints etc. but I still enjoyed the game so I am not concerned what the rank and file of mmorpg (or the rest of the mmorpg) playing world thinks.

I mean if what other people thought was any indication this site wouldn't hate wow so much would it?

For me BW only needs to do enough that the game stays open and continue the course they have been and I will be a satisfied subscriber.

"I'll be honest in saying that I didn't think Funcom, in my lifetime, could have done as well as they did."

Trust me, they didn't. Or perhaps you don't remember that travesty called " Age of Conan" that they put out ? Oh, everyone thought it was great before launch. The company went so far as to lie to beta-testers and it even won game of the year before it hit the shelves. Then the company immediately cut the support and dev team in half as soon as Conan was launched. The game that has so many bugs and problems on an elementary level that they have been talking about a crafting revamp since launch.....and it still hasn't been introduced.
Anytime I see an MMO go FTP and open up a cash store it tells me two things......stay away from anything that company makes and it's in financial trouble.

"Give it a month or two. At the start of May the most populated server had 300+ on the fleet, by the start of June it had ~100."

It did ? On my server we have 230 + on the IMP and Rebel fleets after 5 pm and that's during the week.
Think you better check your stats.

I so dont care for swtor anymore.

I spend a half year of my time into that game and for everything it has done great, somewhere something is so annoying bad, its a constandly oh cool / oh fagg in that game.

The targeting isnt fixed by now huh ?!

Originally posted by FmrOprtr

"Give it a month or two. At the start of May the most populated server had 300+ on the fleet, by the start of June it had ~100."

It did ? On my server we have 230 + on the IMP and Rebel fleets after 5 pm and that's during the week.
Think you better check your stats.

That's after the recent merge. My point was that not much has changed between May and now, the new populations won't stay unless they do more than a group finder.

Tomb of Freedom Nadd:

Start of May ~300 on fleet

Start of June ~100 on fleet

After merge ~500 on fleet

Now 2-300 on fleet

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by moxifloxacin

I just renewed my subscription. I can tell you it was a tough decision. I was tired of LFG and playing alone isn't exactly the reason I play MMORPG. Many quests are made so that you can't solo. When your lvl is high enough to solo, you probably won't receive any xp. Currently I have a lvl 50 and many of my missions are gray out. I have lost interested in completing those missions. The rewards of those missions are abysmal. (Those gears make me laugh.) I don't understand we have to "roll" for those FP weapons.
In short, if 1.3 doesn't improve my experience, I will quit and try Secret World or Guild Wars.
Bioware, are you listening?

 

1.  They're not.  They never have.  And if you try to get them to listen, no matter how polite, they ban you.   I saw that during DA:O's development when people were complaining about the 2.5 D worlds and asked for full 3D movement to include jumping.  BioWare would shoot them down and if they mentioned it again, they'd close the threads, deletel the posts and even ban people.

 

When the beta testers ripped on the SWTOR and the problems.   They, effectlvely, said 'shut up, we have our own test server and these bugs don't exist.'      When my LOTRO guild leader let me take over her beta account and told me (while laughing) she'd never play that dog...     But, I'm a long-time Star Wars fan and I just had to have this MMO....    I should have listened as everything she said was right. I'd be $60 richer.

 

2.  TSW:   I just got done with Beta3 for TSW.   The writing is better.  Hands down.   I used to just cringe at the incredible stupidity of BioWare's laughable science which was just pure fantasy-genre magic and completely impossible.   The quests, and game, is much more difficult than SWTOR and is far less cookie-cutter in character development.

 

The character models are uglier.  Hands down.   The TSW clothing is mostly 'refugee from college rock-band' but there are some nice outfits and my character doesn't have a collection of 'big butt robes' like my Jedis did.   However, the over-all aesthetic is outstanding, and far better, as the world is large, detailed, alive, open and interesting on many, many levels that BioWare completely failed at capturing.    Especially pleasing to me is that rooms, building, paths, halls, etc., are proportionate and realistic in scale.  

 

I'll be honest in saying that I didn't think Funcom, in my lifetime, could have done as well as they did.     I don't know if the whole game will be as well done.   It's just one beta weekend.   But I liked it far more than my SWTOR final 'release version' beta weekend and I think this game has the potential to completely rehab Funcom's reputation.

 

3.  GW2:   I've played both BWEs and the stress test.   If they released it today, 50% finished...   It'd be better than SWTOR will ever be.  And it's not like it's perfect or anything.   But GW2 went the way MMOs seemed to be going in the early 2000's before WoW gave us the quest-hub-theme-park ride everyone and his brother decided to copy in hopes of being 'the next WoW.'

 

And it has tremendous social and emergent gameplay tools built in.   We have fantastic crafting.  Exploration.   Hidden quests.   Puzzles.   Hidden specials.   And even the stories are well done and  based on a comprehensive, well-constructed back-ground lore that makes SWTOR look like a joke.   Here's a picture comparing a certain infamous (and typical) third-rate BioWare writer with one of the GW2 writers and the qualifications they possess:   http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3237/prxi4.png

 

And her thumbnail biography:

 

Ree Soesbee is a writer, game designer, and lore editor for massively multiplayer online games as well as traditional pen and paper RPGs. She has authored more than sixteen novels in a wide variety of fantastic worlds ranging from the popular Legend of the Five Rings setting to Star Trek, Dragonlance, Deadlands, and Vampire: the Masquerade. Her body of work includes over a hundred RPG texts, and inclusion in numerous short story anthologies and professional literary journals. Currently, she is a lead designer and lore writer for Guild Wars 2; innovative follow-up to the award-winning Guild Wars MMORPG. Already, Guild Wars 2 has recieved Gamescom's 'Best Online Game' and MMORPG.com's 'Most Anticipated MMO' awards.       

 

The woman is flat-out talented and fantastic.   She's flat-out one of the best writers in the industry.   And she's done a remarkable job with GW2 in setting the background, the lore and making sure the stories are consistent and appropriate to the lore and background.   Nothing feels out of place.   Nothing feels like it's just some writer's MacGuffin or Deus Ex Machina because they're not clever enough to write themselves out of a paper bag.

 

Let's put it this way, this one woman is more successful as an author than the entire BioWare staff has ever been.

... cannot possibly be real..   damnit.. the perfect woman actually exists somewhere..  (not the one on the right obviously )

Originally posted by jerlot65

They should change the name of this site to "Haters Anonymous".

So quick are people to bash other peeople's hard work just because it doesn't fit "their" idea of what a game should be......sigh.

Well they Ban most of the players with a negative opinion about the game on their forums. Here we can speak free without loosing our SWTOR forum access and express our opinion about the developement staff and the game.

The moderation of the Swtor forums only allows positive postings about the game...... thats like in  China you know ? :)