............................made me wish I wouldve checked out SWG back in the day.

I played TOR during the last months of beta and thought the game had potential.  Launch came and didnt seem like much changed.  The suggestions I gave in beta along with most players probably didnt seem to matter to BW.   The game lacked alot of features modern mmos have but I still thought it was ok.  Then after about month of playing, I just lost interest.  The 2 things that did it for were these:

1>  Lack of interesting races to play

2> The stale, lifeless, dead, non-explorable worlds

(also I guess 3>the sub-par engine but that doesnt bother as much as the 2 main concerns)

I could get by with missing UI features but the 2 item listed above, just ruined it for me.   They did finally tweak UI features some in what, 1.2?  But taking out ranked WZs the plummeting population and all the complaints that BW just seems to blow off made me realize this game is a sinking ship.  EAs recent lay-off of 200 people (and even stephen reid) and EA doesnt have it listed as one of its top 5 games in prorities  doesnt give me confidence this game has a bright future still.   I think they game will finally bottom out around the 200k mark and will go F2P by the end the year.  But anyway, I got off topic.

I know TOR wasnt meant to SWG and i know SWG had its problems and with the NGE disaster but if you look at all the freedom and variety that game had compared to TOR and the fact you had alot of freedom, it alot of ways I think, in those areas, SWG is more superior.   TOR after a matter of time went by,  already seems aged, limited and looks/sounds/plays like it wouldve done fine back in 2002 or so.  And was made by BWs B-team of fresh college grad students.   

I have a little bit of hope left that if the right devolopers were put in charge of the game and did a complete redesign, it could be salvaged and do things right but not real sure if that time has passed or not.

In the end, I cant help but wonder,  LA made SOE closed SWG for this?

I can mail you a tissue box with that....

Originally posted by Paddyspub

............................made me wish I wouldve checked out SWG back in the day.

I played TOR during the last months of beta and thought the game had potential.  Launch came and didnt seem like much changed.  The suggestions I gave in beta along with most players probably didnt seem to matter to BW.   The game lacked alot of features modern mmos have but I still thought it was ok.  Then after about month of playing, I just lost interest.  The 2 things that did it for were these:

 

1>  Lack of interesting races to play

2> The stale, lifeless, dead, non-explorable worlds

 

(also I guess 3>the sub-par engine but that doesnt bother as much as the 2 main concerns)

 

I could get by with missing UI features but the 2 item listed above, just ruined it for me.   They did finally tweak UI features some in what, 1.2?  But taking out ranked WZs the plummeting population and all the complaints that BW just seems to blow off made me realize this game is a sinking ship.  EAs recent lay-off of 200 people (and even stephen reid) and EA doesnt have it listed as one of its top 5 games in prorities  doesnt give me confidence this game has a bright future still.   I think they game will finally bottom out around the 200k mark and will go F2P by the end the year.  But anyway, I got off topic.

 

I know TOR wasnt meant to SWG and i know SWG had its problems and with the NGE disaster but if you look at all the freedom and variety that game had compared to TOR and the fact you had alot of freedom, it alot of ways I think, in those areas, SWG is more superior.   TOR after a matter of time went by,  already seems aged, limited and looks/sounds/plays like it wouldve done fine back in 2002 or so.  And was made by BWs B-team of fresh college grad students.   

 

I have a little bit of hope left that if the right devolopers were put in charge of the game and did a complete redesign, it could be salvaged and do things right but not real sure if that time has passed or not.

 

In the end, I cant help but wonder,  LA made SOE closed SWG for this?

I absolutely agree with this.

All the supposed changes coming in this or that imminent patch can't change the fundamental flaws of the game:

- Lack of variety in actual game play experiences

- Same, closed worlds, level after level

It's ridiculous that after pouring two hundred millionj dollars or more into development, that this is the game we got:

A simplistic, linear game without choice, without new experiences, without variety.

So where did the money go? In went in three areas:

Obviously a tonne of it went on voice-acting that most people space-barred through (couldn't just a little of that cash been spent on the animations of the characters mouthing those words?)...

...And secondly on making those lovely painted backdrops, from the amazing scenery of mid-air traffic lanes of Coruscant to the blazing neon signs of Nar Shadaar. There's only one problem. You can't actually explore/experience any of that. You can only look at it. And, once you've done that, that's it. Stunning visuals in a few worlds - no way to ineract with them. Absurd.

...And thirdly, in a blaze of marketing, especially buying off game sites and game reviewers with goodie bags, promotional materials, special events and special trips to special conventions where the developers could make arrogant statements that in fact pissed off players rather than winning them over.

........ most everything else is pretty fun.

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by Paddyspub

............................made me wish I wouldve checked out SWG back in the day.

I played TOR during the last months of beta and thought the game had potential.  Launch came and didnt seem like much changed.  The suggestions I gave in beta along with most players probably didnt seem to matter to BW.   The game lacked alot of features modern mmos have but I still thought it was ok.  Then after about month of playing, I just lost interest.  The 2 things that did it for were these:

 

1>  Lack of interesting races to play

2> The stale, lifeless, dead, non-explorable worlds

 

(also I guess 3>the sub-par engine but that doesnt bother as much as the 2 main concerns)

 

I could get by with missing UI features but the 2 item listed above, just ruined it for me.   They did finally tweak UI features some in what, 1.2?  But taking out ranked WZs the plummeting population and all the complaints that BW just seems to blow off made me realize this game is a sinking ship.  EAs recent lay-off of 200 people (and even stephen reid) and EA doesnt have it listed as one of its top 5 games in prorities  doesnt give me confidence this game has a bright future still.   I think they game will finally bottom out around the 200k mark and will go F2P by the end the year.  But anyway, I got off topic.

 

I know TOR wasnt meant to SWG and i know SWG had its problems and with the NGE disaster but if you look at all the freedom and variety that game had compared to TOR and the fact you had alot of freedom, it alot of ways I think, in those areas, SWG is more superior.   TOR after a matter of time went by,  already seems aged, limited and looks/sounds/plays like it wouldve done fine back in 2002 or so.  And was made by BWs B-team of fresh college grad students.   

 

I have a little bit of hope left that if the right devolopers were put in charge of the game and did a complete redesign, it could be salvaged and do things right but not real sure if that time has passed or not.

 

In the end, I cant help but wonder,  LA made SOE closed SWG for this?

I absolutely agree with this.

All the supposed changes coming in this or that imminent patch can't change the fundamental flaws of the game:

- Lack of variety in actual game play experiences

- Same, closed worlds, level after level

It's ridiculous that after pouring two hundred millionj dollars or more into development, that this is the game we got:

A simplistic, linear game without choice, without new experiences, without variety.

So where did the money go? In went in three areas:

Obviously a tonne of it went on voice-acting that most people space-barred through (couldn't just a little of that cash been spent on the animations of the characters mouthing those words?)...

...And secondly on making those lovely painted backdrops, from the amazing scenery of mid-air traffic lanes of Coruscant to the blazing neon signs of Nar Shadaar. There's only one problem. You can't actually explore/experience any of that. You can only look at it. And, once you've done that, that's it. Stunning visuals in a few worlds - no way to ineract with them. Absurd.

...And thirdly, in a blaze of marketing, especially buying off game sites and game reviewers with goodie bags, promotional materials, special events and special trips to special conventions where the developers could make arrogant statements that in fact pissed off players rather than winning them over.

 

...And fourthly, untold man hours and money spent on an over bloated production team that spent more time starting a project only to be told later to stop and take it out. There is no telling how many features, content, and fluff that TOR could of had if they finished all the projects they started for it.

I got that tid bit from a former inside source I recently met in another forum and I wont try to prove to you all. Not that I can't, it's that I wont for his sake ATM.

I have a lot of juicy details that I want to share very badly, but not sure it's a good idea yet.

Your choice, take it for what it's worth.

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by Paddyspub

............................made me wish I wouldve checked out SWG back in the day.

I played TOR during the last months of beta and thought the game had potential.  Launch came and didnt seem like much changed.  The suggestions I gave in beta along with most players probably didnt seem to matter to BW.   The game lacked alot of features modern mmos have but I still thought it was ok.  Then after about month of playing, I just lost interest.  The 2 things that did it for were these:

 

1>  Lack of interesting races to play

2> The stale, lifeless, dead, non-explorable worlds

 

(also I guess 3>the sub-par engine but that doesnt bother as much as the 2 main concerns)

 

I could get by with missing UI features but the 2 item listed above, just ruined it for me.   They did finally tweak UI features some in what, 1.2?  But taking out ranked WZs the plummeting population and all the complaints that BW just seems to blow off made me realize this game is a sinking ship.  EAs recent lay-off of 200 people (and even stephen reid) and EA doesnt have it listed as one of its top 5 games in prorities  doesnt give me confidence this game has a bright future still.   I think they game will finally bottom out around the 200k mark and will go F2P by the end the year.  But anyway, I got off topic.

 

I know TOR wasnt meant to SWG and i know SWG had its problems and with the NGE disaster but if you look at all the freedom and variety that game had compared to TOR and the fact you had alot of freedom, it alot of ways I think, in those areas, SWG is more superior.   TOR after a matter of time went by,  already seems aged, limited and looks/sounds/plays like it wouldve done fine back in 2002 or so.  And was made by BWs B-team of fresh college grad students.   

 

I have a little bit of hope left that if the right devolopers were put in charge of the game and did a complete redesign, it could be salvaged and do things right but not real sure if that time has passed or not.

 

In the end, I cant help but wonder,  LA made SOE closed SWG for this?

I absolutely agree with this.

All the supposed changes coming in this or that imminent patch can't change the fundamental flaws of the game:

- Lack of variety in actual game play experiences

- Same, closed worlds, level after level

It's ridiculous that after pouring two hundred millionj dollars or more into development, that this is the game we got:

A simplistic, linear game without choice, without new experiences, without variety.

So where did the money go? In went in three areas:

Obviously a tonne of it went on voice-acting that most people space-barred through (couldn't just a little of that cash been spent on the animations of the characters mouthing those words?)...

...And secondly on making those lovely painted backdrops, from the amazing scenery of mid-air traffic lanes of Coruscant to the blazing neon signs of Nar Shadaar. There's only one problem. You can't actually explore/experience any of that. You can only look at it. And, once you've done that, that's it. Stunning visuals in a few worlds - no way to ineract with them. Absurd.

...And thirdly, in a blaze of marketing, especially buying off game sites and game reviewers with goodie bags, promotional materials, special events and special trips to special conventions where the developers could make arrogant statements that in fact pissed off players rather than winning them over.

 

...And fourthly, untold man hours and money spent on an over bloated production team that spent more time starting a project only to be told later to stop and take it out. There is no telling how many features, content, and fluff that TOR could of had if they finished all the projects they started for it.

I got that tid bit from a former inside source I recently met in another forum and I wont try to prove to you all. Not that I can't, it's that I wont for his sake ATM.

I have a lot of juicy details that I want to share very badly, but not sure it's a good idea yet.

Your choice, take it for what it's worth.

Please share! Or PM me and I'll share them :) I am curious about want went wrong inside that company. It's as if they delibrated over how they could make the game as bad as possible.

"QUOTE"

"And fourthly, untold man hours and money spent on an over bloated production team that spent more time starting a project only to be told later to stop and take it out. There is no telling how many features, content, and fluff that TOR could of had if they finished all the projects they started for it.

I got that tid bit from a former inside source I recently met in another forum and I wont try to prove to you all. Not that I can't, it's that I wont for his sake ATM.

I have a lot of juicy details that I want to share very badly, but not sure it's a good idea yet.

Your choice, take it for what it's worth."

You could sense that a lot was unfinished/ abandoned as you played the game.

I thought the stories were pretty well done, but a living vibrant world should of been numero uno on the development list, then do the story.

It's really sad to see a reputable company like Bioware implode. There own arrogance was there worst enemy, ummm that and EA.

EA?     psh

I doubt I will ever buy a product from either of them again.......................pitiful

Originally posted by MuratReis

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by Paddyspub
 

I absolutely agree with this.

All the supposed changes coming in this or that imminent patch can't change the fundamental flaws of the game:

- Lack of variety in actual game play experiences

- Same, closed worlds, level after level

It's ridiculous that after pouring two hundred millionj dollars or more into development, that this is the game we got:

A simplistic, linear game without choice, without new experiences, without variety.

So where did the money go? In went in three areas:

Obviously a tonne of it went on voice-acting that most people space-barred through (couldn't just a little of that cash been spent on the animations of the characters mouthing those words?)...

...And secondly on making those lovely painted backdrops, from the amazing scenery of mid-air traffic lanes of Coruscant to the blazing neon signs of Nar Shadaar. There's only one problem. You can't actually explore/experience any of that. You can only look at it. And, once you've done that, that's it. Stunning visuals in a few worlds - no way to ineract with them. Absurd.

...And thirdly, in a blaze of marketing, especially buying off game sites and game reviewers with goodie bags, promotional materials, special events and special trips to special conventions where the developers could make arrogant statements that in fact pissed off players rather than winning them over.

 

...And fourthly, untold man hours and money spent on an over bloated production team that spent more time starting a project only to be told later to stop and take it out. There is no telling how many features, content, and fluff that TOR could of had if they finished all the projects they started for it.

I got that tid bit from a former inside source I recently met in another forum and I wont try to prove to you all. Not that I can't, it's that I wont for his sake ATM.

I have a lot of juicy details that I want to share very badly, but not sure it's a good idea yet.

Your choice, take it for what it's worth.

Please share! Or PM me and I'll share them :) I am curious about want went wrong inside that company. It's as if they delibrated over how they could make the game as bad as possible.

I don't have the vocabulary skills to properly describe what I was told. Basically it's like this...The reason the game came with so few features and content and buggy as hell is because they couldn't make up their mind what to do with the game. Leaving names out but if your smart on the game's credits you can figure it out maybe.

One lead developer left and fired was the rumor, the guy that took his place changed everything. That's when it started to go downhill. That's when projects started to get pulled and questions got ignored. Any of you in the beta testing that thought everything you said was ignored, I'm telling you that your not the only ones. The whole production team was and they were screaming the same things you guys were. Nothing mattered at all if it didn't come from the main office.

They simply wouldn't get settled on what they wanted in the game and then time ran out to have anything. Adding to that was the fact they had such a bloated team divided up in subteams with little to no communication with each other. Constantly starting a project and stopping to gut it out because they were told to.

You guys want to know what's wrong with the engine and the bugs and other performance issues and lack of real content? Read this post again.

I'm going to give you guys an example.

The cantinas were intended to be the main hubs and there was never any thought of fleets until the very end. The fleets became a knee jerk because they never even started work on the cantinas. Time ran out.

Originally posted by Bardus

I'm going to give you guys an example.

The cantinas were intended to be the main hubs and there was never any thought of fleets until the very end. The fleets became a knee jerk because they never even started work on the cantinas. Time ran out.

I believe this. One reason, parsimony. It's a simple explanation that is in alignment with the way things have happened, and continue to happen.

Whoever the mystery dev is, he's a fucking idiot.

I want more Bardus!  Keep em coming bud.

Bardus! Bardus!

I would rather play SWG (pre nge ofc) than SWTOR any day of the week as I dare say many others would.

I know there are a lot of SWG haters out there but you would have to admit that SWG2 would've been a better game to make than SWTOR and that's coming from an ex SWTOR fan who really wanted the game to succeed.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Bardus

I'm going to give you guys an example.

The cantinas were intended to be the main hubs and there was never any thought of fleets until the very end. The fleets became a knee jerk because they never even started work on the cantinas. Time ran out.

I believe this. One reason, parsimony. It's a simple explanation that is in alignment with the way things have happened, and continue to happen.

Whoever the mystery dev is, he's a fucking idiot.

Check your PMs. Your a member of the same forum as my source.

Originally posted by Bardus

I'm going to give you guys an example.

The cantinas were intended to be the main hubs and there was never any thought of fleets until the very end. The fleets became a knee jerk because they never even started work on the cantinas. Time ran out.

Thanks for the info, Bardus. 

I think keeping all the action on the planets would have been a lot more interesting.  I was also think it was a mistake dividing the factions like they did; the world event was fun when everyone was mixed together. ..The funny things is, they could of spent a lot less money and made a much better game if they realized people like th play together, both friend and foe. 

.... sweet. ok will do.

It's very shallow in MMO features and was a waste of $250 million+ dollars.

Originally posted by Alders

I want more Bardus!  Keep em coming bud.

That's pretty much all I got so far. Believe me, I'll be digging for more.

Hey, ask me a question and I'll try to pass it on if you guys want. If the Mods make us do it in PMs then just PM me.

Really, what a lot of people want, including myself, is SWG pre-cu. Unfortunately, the guy who can make that kind of game isn't doing MMOs anymore (raph koster). Everyone else seems to be under the thumb of idiot CEOs or just clueless to begin with... 

Originally posted by ignore_me

.... sweet. ok will do.

By the way, ignore_me, I just sent an email to LucasArts thanks to your signature...