Originally posted by trash656

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

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Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

(Well I don't like any of the new MMO's they are all equally crappy, but if you want some demographics I can give you some here...)

 

Fact #1 Rift right now in North America only has 2/3 high populated servers now, and the rest practicly hardly anyone playing on them anymore.

Fact #2 The Rift's events were turned off in some servers because the lack of players in the zones.

Fact #3 Most of the people who used to play Rift left the game (Just like SWTOR)

Fact #4 SWTOR is not a dead game, regardless of how many ignorant people "think" it is. There is just as many people playing it as there is Age of Conan, Rift, Everquest 2. None of these games are dead, and won't be for a very long time.

Conclusion

From seeing things for myself recently it Seems to me the majority of players believe both Rift & SWTOR are equally just as boring to a lot of players. More people are playing WoW still then both of these MMO's combined. You want to know why? Because, If players are going to play a MMO based on the WoW forumila they are going to play WoW. People generally are sick and tired of playing WoW forumula MMO's because they get bored of them pretty quick. Like I said if people are doing to play WoW they are going to load up WoW, not SWTOR, or Rift, or any other half assed MMO were the developers couldn't of bothered to come up with their own creative idea's instead of not just copying a few mechanics but "Everything" from another game.

http://www.swtor.com/server-status

The servers are dead all across the world with the handful of standards across the world.....

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us

Originally posted by trash656

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

---

 

Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

(Well I don't like any of the new MMO's they are all equally crappy, but if you want some demographics I can give you some here...)

 

Fact #1 Rift right now in North America only has 2/3 high populated servers now, and the rest practicly hardly anyone playing on them anymore.

Fact #2 The Rift's events were turned off in some servers because the lack of players in the zones.

Fact #3 Most of the people who used to play Rift left the game (Just like SWTOR)

Fact #4 SWTOR is not a dead game, regardless of how many ignorant people "think" it is. There is just as many people playing it as there is Age of Conan, Rift, Everquest 2. None of these games are dead, and won't be for a very long time.

Conclusion

From seeing things for myself recently it Seems to me the majority of players believe both Rift & SWTOR are equally just as boring to a lot of players. More people are playing WoW still then both of these MMO's combined. You want to know why? Because, If players are going to play a MMO based on the WoW forumila they are going to play WoW. People generally are sick and tired of playing WoW forumula MMO's because they get bored of them pretty quick. Like I said if people are doing to play WoW they are going to load up WoW, not SWTOR, or Rift, or any other half assed MMO were the developers couldn't of bothered to come up with their own creative idea's instead of not just copying a few mechanics but "Everything" from another game.

Rift would be a hell of a game if release back in 2004 but hey guess what? so would SWTOR.. if SWTOR incorportated all the features Rift had MMO wise at launch and included the VO for story quest only i think swtor would have done a ton better.. also people od throw around "dead" but you need to look at it more EA believed SWTOR would net warcraft sub numbers for them so to them it's going to be a failure. I said this in another post,  I'm fine with games copying other games there's really only so much you can come up with these days as far as new and innovative but if you are going to copy another game at least do it better than the game you are copying and not a half assed job. When they do this it's easy to make direct comparisons on each game and a lot easier to poke at the flaws of the new game.

How about move the pure RIFT discussion to the RIFT forum?

As for the topic it seems they don't plan to release Rated Warzones in 1.3 either. That gonna disappoint a lot of people :(

Originally posted by eHug

How about move the pure RIFT discussion to the RIFT forum?

Agreed.

As for the topic it seems they don't plan to release Rated Warzones in 1.3 either. That gonna disappoint a lot of people :(

I'm starting to wonder if they are giving up on PVP all together.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by eHug

As for the topic it seems they don't plan to release Rated Warzones in 1.3 either. That gonna disappoint a lot of people :(

I'm starting to wonder if they are giving up on PVP all together.

 

really takes the WARS out of Star Wars and there wasn't really much Stars in the game ot begin with:(

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

---

 

Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

Rift I thought had potentional at first.. but I and friends quickly found out our prepaid 6 month subscription was 3 months too long..  We quickly bored from the 1-50 content after the first toon.. and I have NO desire to play the end game raid hamster wheel game.. 

Both games IMO are failed attempts to recreate the "WoW" feel..   Maybe both should look outside the box and do something original..  Rift did too little with rifts.. and TOR spent too much focus on voice storylines... oh well :(

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

---

 

Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

Rift I thought had potentional at first.. but I and friends quickly found out our prepaid 6 month subscription was 3 months too long..  We quickly bored from the 1-50 content after the first toon.. and I have NO desire to play the end game raid hamster wheel game.. 

Both games IMO are failed attempts to recreate the "WoW" feel..   Maybe both should look outside the box and do something original..  Rift did too little with rifts.. and TOR spent too much focus on voice storylines... oh well :(

I agree they both failed in their attempts to really improve the basic themepark model but at least Rift encouraged grouping and felt like a MMO and the soul system is a lot of fun for leveling.. but yes endgame on both is pretty much the exact same and it sucks,... for me at least:)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Rydeson

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

---

 

Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

Rift I thought had potentional at first.. but I and friends quickly found out our prepaid 6 month subscription was 3 months too long..  We quickly bored from the 1-50 content after the first toon.. and I have NO desire to play the end game raid hamster wheel game.. 

Both games IMO are failed attempts to recreate the "WoW" feel..   Maybe both should look outside the box and do something original..  Rift did too little with rifts.. and TOR spent too much focus on voice storylines... oh well :(

I agree they both failed in their attempts to really improve the basic themepark model but at least Rift encouraged grouping and felt like a MMO and the soul system is a lot of fun for leveling.. but yes endgame on both is pretty much the exact same and it sucks,... for me at least:)

Rift trumps SWTOR just for the soul system.

But the zone-wide events were very fun when there were alot of people around.  SWTOR has nothing that comes close to that.  Typical riftng was fun but not amazing.  But the zone-wide massive invasions are and were more fun than people give them credit for.  Still the rifts themselves are too generic and get old there is not doubt.  But people are letting that make an unfair judgement that there was nothing all that worthy of praise.

People are being unfair to rift.  The zone-wide events could be pretty sweet.  They aren't given enough credit.  There was some pretty massive and chaotic fun there sometimes.

Originally posted by trash656

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

---

 

Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

(Well I don't like any of the new MMO's they are all equally crappy, but if you want some demographics I can give you some here...)

 

Fact #1 Rift right now in North America only has 2/3 high populated servers now, and the rest practicly hardly anyone playing on them anymore.

Fact #2 The Rift's events were turned off in some servers because the lack of players in the zones.

Fact #3 Most of the people who used to play Rift left the game (Just like SWTOR)

Fact #4 SWTOR is not a dead game, regardless of how many ignorant people "think" it is. There is just as many people playing it as there is Age of Conan, Rift, Everquest 2. None of these games are dead, and won't be for a very long time.

Conclusion

From seeing things for myself recently it Seems to me the majority of players believe both Rift & SWTOR are equally just as boring to a lot of players. More people are playing WoW still then both of these MMO's combined. You want to know why? Because, If players are going to play a MMO based on the WoW forumila they are going to play WoW. People generally are sick and tired of playing WoW forumula MMO's because they get bored of them pretty quick. Like I said if people are doing to play WoW they are going to load up WoW, not SWTOR, or Rift, or any other half assed MMO were the developers couldn't of bothered to come up with their own creative idea's instead of not just copying a few mechanics but "Everything" from another game.

Well put..

Originally posted by gestalt11

 

Rift trumps SWTOR just for the soul system.

 

But the zone-wide events were very fun when there were alot of people around.  SWTOR has nothing that comes close to that.  Typical riftng was fun but not amazing.  But the zone-wide massive invasions are and were more fun than people give them credit for.  Still the rifts themselves are too generic and get old there is not doubt.  But people are letting that make an unfair judgement that there was nothing all that worthy of praise.

People are being unfair to rift.  The zone-wide events could be pretty sweet.  They aren't given enough credit.  There was some pretty massive and chaotic fun there sometimes.

^ agree I played from launch till about 6-8 months after for Rift and it was actually a lot of fun but sadly endgame just couldn't hold my attention any longer but leveling 1 of each class to max was a lot of fun givin the amount of options you had with the soul system.. loved switching up my playstyle every couple of levels made it a lot more enjoyable experience and yes during the time I played leveling plently of people were around for some very fun mass invasions.. PVE servers were also a lot more fun because both sides actually worked toward finishing the zone invasions instead of stomping on eachother like on PVP servers..

Really wish SWTOR added more of this stuff to its game if they had I may actually still be playing it to this day.

Will there be more Rhakghouls?  They really need to get their priorities straight.   It seems the Bioware team is obsessed with the Legacy fluff.

1.  Server merges and transfers.
2.  LFG System.
3.  Ranked Warzones.

Originally posted by observer

Will there be more Rhakghouls?  They really need to get their priorities straight.   It seems the Bioware team is obsessed with the Legacy fluff.

1.  Server merges and transfers.
2.  LFG System.
3.  Ranked Warzones.

At least it's confirmed that we are getting the first two. The Ranked Warzones were promised after getting dropped from 1.2. I know a lot of the PVP crowd is asking for this and Bioware needs to be up front with this. Is it or is it not coming?

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by eHug

How about move the pure RIFT discussion to the RIFT forum?

Agreed.

As for the topic it seems they don't plan to release Rated Warzones in 1.3 either. That gonna disappoint a lot of people :(

I'm starting to wonder if they are giving up on PVP all together.

 

If they can't make a halfway competent pvp system, it is probably best they leave pvp nothing but a few warzones.  Hell, they should probably just remove it entirely if they can't do it.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

and again a lot of this was said during beta all this stuff should have been in the game at launch... looking at the scope and size of the project they had. One big concern was they would be spending the first year mostly playing catchup on basic features instead of actually expanding the game.

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You know, development capacity is limited. They stuff the game with "basic features" and you will cry that there is lack of content, they drop on "basic features" and focus on content and you will cry there is a lack of "basic features"...

 

Seems like you want to eat one's cake and have it too.

My friend, BioWare spent more money on this MMO than WoW has spent on basic WoW plus all expansions.   They did it in a market where all the tools requested were there and did not need to be innovated.    And yet they gave us a 2004 MMO and one decidedly lacking in content.

How did this happen?   They chose to spend their money on something relatively useless and gimicky -- fully voiced and fully animated MMO play including all the crappy generic side quests.    That's brutally expensive in talent and animation time.   And you know they did after that?

They did the same thing again in French and in German.    The whole game.     It would be like James Cameron completely reshooting Avatar (actors, re-animated) for French and German as well as the English version.   

So, Avatar cost $280 million to make...    And while they'd be able to save SOME money on being able to reuse SOME animation...   Everything else triples...  So, what would Cameron have to do if his budget was limited AND he was foolish enough to make the enitre movie in three languages?

He'd be forced to make three shorter movies with somewhat less scope...   But he doesn't stop there because he's too smart for all of us and knows what we want...   So, not only does Cameron decided to make the movie in three languages, but he decides he has a better idea, he's going to make EIGHT SEPERATE movies, one for each achetype and his/her seperate 'companions' he dreamed up one night after eating a plate of bad sushi...    So that he's, effectively, making 24 movies.

What will this do to his limited budget?   This grand idea of his?    Well, he's going to reuse a LOT of the back ground stuff...    But, in the end, we'd probably get 24 cartoon-length main stories that are completely unrelated and padded with a lot of stock footage so the movie could get to any decent length...   Just like SWTOR.    A game of 8 very short stories padded with the same side quests to get any length at all.   And even then, it's still brutally short to level cap.

In the end, just like SWTOR, some people can keep watching that same old movie, with minor changes, time-and-time again.  While most people will say 'screw it, I'm not paying $12 a pop (or $15 a month) to watch re-runs.   I can watch an entirely new movie than that stale old crap.

Originally posted by ktanner3
 

Originally posted by observer

Will there be more Rhakghouls?  They really need to get their priorities straight.   It seems the Bioware team is obsessed with the Legacy fluff.

1.  Server merges and transfers.
2.  LFG System.
3.  Ranked Warzones.

At least it's confirmed that we are getting the first two. The Ranked Warzones were promised after getting dropped from 1.2. I know a lot of the PVP crowd is asking for this and Bioware needs to be up front with this. Is it or is it not coming?

LFG is only on the server, not cross server.   Since it's a server population problem, it's not going to solve anything but the manual spam will now be automated...  Big whoop.   It's still going to take hours to get a warzone...   And you're still not going to be able to group now if you couldn't group before because there are only 8-50's on your whole server and 6 of them don't care...

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

You know, development capacity is limited. They stuff the game with "basic features" and you will cry that there is lack of content, they drop on "basic features" and focus on content and you will cry there is a lack of "basic features"...

 

Seems like you want to eat one's cake and have it too.

 Amazing how you call others out for making assumptions yet have no problem doing it yourself to further your viewpoint.

I think it's more amazing that he excuses a game for lacking basic features that even f2p games have.   Especially when one considers this is the most expensive MMO ever made.    And estimates for its cost to make exceed estimates for the entire cost of WoW and all it's expansion packs.

We didn't even get an appearence tab.    That's not exactly rocket science...

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Originally posted by MosesZD

They did the same thing again in French and in German.    The whole game.     It would be like James Cameron completely reshooting Avatar (actors, re-animated) for French and German as well as the English version.   

 

So, Avatar cost $280 million to make...    And while they'd be able to save SOME money on being able to reuse SOME animation...   Everything else triples...  So, what would Cameron have to do if his budget was limited AND he was foolish enough to make the enitre movie in three languages?

He'd be forced to make three shorter movies with somewhat less scope...

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Or you can just use dubbing like all others do...?

You know, whether character speaks English or Dutch, he moves the same way so why exactly would you need to redone whole scene for each language?

The voice overs are costly? Hm...

There is like 200.000 lines of recorded text used. 1000 actors. Lets say each session lasts 4 hours. That is 4000 hours of voice-overs.

Now, do all the figures include other languages? I don't know but make it 3 for each language.

How much for recording hour? Is 1000 USD/hour enough?

Well, that makes 12000 hours at 1000 USD rate, resulting in 12M USD. If you consider minimum budget as 150M USD, it is exactly 8% of the budged spent on 3 languages voice-overs.

No rocket science you say?

Meh... the only thing that would make me try the free weekend would be actual space combat.

            wow look at all those light servers???? Where is the 1.3 million people they are talking about out lost in the galactic space.....arrrrrrrrrrgh!!!!!!!

           http://www.swtor.com/server-status

I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to come back to SW:TOR for patch 1.3 only to be incredibly disappointed because the flashpoint finder isn't cross-server.  I can only assume the lack of cross-server functionality is due to a need for additional testing because I can't believe any MMO developer in 2012 would be idiotic enough to intentially leave a dungeon finder as single-server only.